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#327971 - 08/05/07 03:50 PM DC007 or anyone else
AlabamaSwamper
12 Point


Registered: 06/03/04
Posts: 5081
Loc: Southern Wayne CO and NW Alaba...

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I have 2 plots that were originally planted 2 years ago to be perinnial Imperial clover with a little chicory mixed in for good measure. I do overseed these with BF oats and wheat.

Now, it seems the chicory is outperforming the clover. The clover is getting better and both will need to be overseeded this fall to thicken the plot next summer.

I'm thinking of simply going "chicory" only and let the clover be as it may.

Another field has done just the opposite and my big clover field in our creek bottom is as good as a clover patch as you will find. (1/2 acre)

What would your opinion be on the "chicory" only field or moving this field/s towards chicory only?
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#328008 - 08/05/07 04:35 PM Re: DC007 or anyone else [Re: AlabamaSwamper]
deerchaser007
10 Point


Registered: 12/17/02
Posts: 4243
Loc: Bradyville, TN USA

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Sounds like it may be a spot that don't hold moisture well. If so,.. the white ladino clover will suffer and the chicory will dominate the plot due to the chicories root system will go deeper in the ground to find moisture.

Without seeing the plot,.. my recommendation would be to leave the chicory ,.. and overseed the plot this fall in wheat or oats ,.. red clover,.. and arrowleaf clover.
The red clover develops a deeper root system than white clover. SO,... if its a moisture problem the red is your best bet. The arrowleaf in the mix is a annual but is a excellent winter clover and for sure a good spring , early summer clover. The 2 clovers will work together and produce forage all year long for that plot. It will last for 1 year. SO,.. if you plant in september,.. this will last til the next september. AND,.. some of the seed will reseed itself.
The mix on that is.....
50lb oats or wheat
10 lb red clover
10 lb arrowleaf clover
PER ACRE

I really prefer mixes. A single chicory plot is OK,.. but a mix plot is more productive and more nutritious. SO,. if you don't like the mix above,.. you can try overseeding it in durana white clover. Durana is more drought resistant than most white clovers ,. so it may be something to try.You can also add red clover to this also. The mix on this would be...
50 lb oats or wheat
5 lbs durana white clover
7 lbs red clover

The 1/2 acre plot your saying is doing good you also said its in a creek bottom. The bottoms will hold better moisture ,.. thats why its doing better. This is why i'm assuming low moisture in the other spot thats not doing as well. PLUS,.. imperial clover is not known to take droughty weather at all. Thats the only complaint i have with it.

Remember ,.. i'm assuming moisture problem. Without seeing the area its hard for me to say exactly. BUT,.. if its on a ridgetop or a drought prone area thats for sure what it is.
Hope this helps........

EDIT note,..... if you do not want to overseed this fall,.. these mixes can also be seeded in late febuary or early march. If your gonna overseeed you are gonna need rain to push the seed in the ground. If it stays dry like this,. you might save your money and overseed in late winter with better results for next year.


Edited by deerchaser007 (08/05/07 04:41 PM)
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Guard your tongue in youth,.. and in age you may mature a thought that will be of service to your people!!
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#328013 - 08/05/07 04:44 PM Re: DC007 or anyone else [Re: deerchaser007]
AlabamaSwamper
12 Point


Registered: 06/03/04
Posts: 5081
Loc: Southern Wayne CO and NW Alaba...

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Good point 007. Moisture could be it.

I've always planted annual red clovers and arrowleaf in the plots. To be honest, I don't get enough growth out of either to even mess with it this year. The crimson comes up ok and so does the arrowleaf but the Ladino clovers do much better for some reason.

Also, I always overseed with BF oats and wheat in every plot.

Those plots are in mature pine plantations and on loading areas that have been worked and worked and worked. lol More lime than I care to think of. Always have soil samples also.

The creek bottom is in an old pasture that used to be farmed. Really rocky but a lot better soil.
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Official BTR Scorer in NW Alabama and southern middle Tennessee

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#328034 - 08/05/07 05:15 PM Re: DC007 or anyone else [Re: AlabamaSwamper]
deerchaser007
10 Point


Registered: 12/17/02
Posts: 4243
Loc: Bradyville, TN USA

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Durana clover may be your answer in that spot then. Its as close to a miracle clover as you can get.

Red clover is a biennial clover. It last for two years. I've gotten red clover to grow in spots were nothing else would. Co-op sells medium red clover,.. its pretty good. The redland III and redland maxx varieties are the best from what i've heard. Do not confuse these clovers with crimson or arrowleaf. A true red clover is about as drought resistant as you can get in anything.

The reason you might not see much growth from crimson and arrowleaf may be due to browse pressure. Crimson and arrowleaf are more prefered than white clovers in fall and winter. And even in the spring while they produce. The best way to check the growth is with exclusion cages in the plot. I really don't care much about tall lush looking plots,.. i prefer a plot that is growing but is being utilized by the deer. And sometimes that means the plot is not tall. BUT,. very productive. PLUS,.. depending on were you buy your crimson and arrowleaf ,. it may not be preinoculated. This will stun the growth.
Heres a example..

Thats my plot of crimson,arrowleaf,rape, and wheat. If i had a close up of it you would see its only about 2 inches tall. BUT,. its because it was browsed to that size. BUT,. the plot was very productive the whole winter. Plus,.. my ph level was only 5.4 in that spot also at that time.

BUT come spring,....


The ole plot really provided a great food source for my deer in spring.

In my opinion,.. annual clovers are #1 for planting for whitetail deer. This is from my experience on my farm.

This is my 3/4 acre perennial plot of chicory and clover. Notice the slope. It don't hold the best moisture even though its in the bottom and its north facing. This year,. the red clover is the only thing that kept high production in this plot besides the chicory. The red clover (redland III) saved the day here. Thats why i recommend red clover in every perennial plot. The monster back up i call it.


Hope whatever you decide works for you......
_________________________
QDMA member...Cannon co.
Guard your tongue in youth,.. and in age you may mature a thought that will be of service to your people!!
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#328211 - 08/05/07 08:17 PM Re: DC007 or anyone else [Re: deerchaser007]
AlabamaSwamper
12 Point


Registered: 06/03/04
Posts: 5081
Loc: Southern Wayne CO and NW Alaba...

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Is Durana an annual?

If not, I may just try it.
_________________________
Official BTR Scorer in NW Alabama and southern middle Tennessee

http://twitter.com/AlabamaSwamper

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#328227 - 08/05/07 08:32 PM Re: DC007 or anyone else [Re: AlabamaSwamper]
deerchaser007
10 Point


Registered: 12/17/02
Posts: 4243
Loc: Bradyville, TN USA

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durana is a perennial white clover.
_________________________
QDMA member...Cannon co.
Guard your tongue in youth,.. and in age you may mature a thought that will be of service to your people!!
(Minquass)

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#328244 - 08/05/07 08:41 PM Re: DC007 or anyone else [Re: deerchaser007]
AlabamaSwamper
12 Point


Registered: 06/03/04
Posts: 5081
Loc: Southern Wayne CO and NW Alaba...

Offline
Thanks DC
_________________________
Official BTR Scorer in NW Alabama and southern middle Tennessee

http://twitter.com/AlabamaSwamper

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#328467 - 08/05/07 10:55 PM Re: DC007 or anyone else [Re: AlabamaSwamper]
JohnnyDollar
8 Point


Registered: 07/30/07
Posts: 1183
Loc: tipton co. tn

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man DC those plots look great!!! I always tell people that there is no substitution for hard work and preparation (seed bed). I never plant clover because I never have any luck with the deer eating the clover so I always plant winter peas, wheat, rape, and some greens.
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#329397 - 08/06/07 05:17 PM Re: DC007 or anyone else [Re: JohnnyDollar]
deerchaser007
10 Point


Registered: 12/17/02
Posts: 4243
Loc: Bradyville, TN USA

Offline
 Originally Posted By: sirhuntsalot
man DC those plots look great!!! I always tell people that there is no substitution for hard work and preparation (seed bed). I never plant clover because I never have any luck with the deer eating the clover so I always plant winter peas, wheat, rape, and some greens.


THANKS,.... i will never plant again without using annual clovers. Annual clovers are highly preferred ,.. but will withstand the pressure deer put on them. From fall til mid summer.
_________________________
QDMA member...Cannon co.
Guard your tongue in youth,.. and in age you may mature a thought that will be of service to your people!!
(Minquass)

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#330129 - 08/07/07 08:28 AM Re: DC007 or anyone else [Re: deerchaser007]
AlabamaSwamper
12 Point


Registered: 06/03/04
Posts: 5081
Loc: Southern Wayne CO and NW Alaba...

Offline
DC,

I made a trip to the Co-Op yesterday. They suggested the new Redland Max instead of the Redland III. They said it was an improved Redland III and supposed to be more drought resistant and able to sustain even more browse pressure.

You know anything about it?

I also checked on Durana and can only get it in 25# bags there. If anyone in Wayne or somewhere close wants to split a bag, let me know. I don't need anywhere near 25# of that stuff and I hate to spend $130 and throw 1/2 of it away.

I think I will side by side plant (1/2 field each) and test the Redland and either Regal Ladino or Durana and see which the deer prefer on my place and how each does throughout the year.
_________________________
Official BTR Scorer in NW Alabama and southern middle Tennessee

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