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#3282262 - 07/04/13 11:19 AM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: tickweed]
bowriter
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Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 41522
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

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 Originally Posted By: tickweed
I don't know, but it seems very unlikely to me that a deer could survive a double lung shot with an arrow. No calling you out 102, but with todays broadheads, not much chance. Maybe one lung yes, but both, the partys over.


They can and do. I am hoping for six decades of hunting experience. Next year will make 60-years I have been hunting deer. In addition, I can add almost 30-years of guiding experience. I will not be so bold as to say I have seen it all. However, this I have seen. I have seen more than one double lung hit survive to be killed at a later date and the DL verified. I have seen one pass-through heart shot with a 125gr Thunderhead, survive for three days. It was then killed by another hunter who said it showed no sign of any injury. That too was verified. I did a necropsy and closely examined the heart. It was without question a pass-through and healing well.

If animal is not pushed, i.e. shot and left alone to do as it wishes, many survive shots we would never think possible. I have conservatively blood trailed over 1,000 animals. I have seen a great deal, enough that nothing much surprises me anymore.
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#3282369 - 07/04/13 01:16 PM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: bowriter]
102
10 Point


Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 4018
Loc: Tennessee

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 Originally Posted By: bowriter
 Originally Posted By: tickweed
I don't know, but it seems very unlikely to me that a deer could survive a double lung shot with an arrow. No calling you out 102, but with todays broadheads, not much chance. Maybe one lung yes, but both, the partys over.


They can and do. I am hoping for six decades of hunting experience. Next year will make 60-years I have been hunting deer. In addition, I can add almost 30-years of guiding experience. I will not be so bold as to say I have seen it all. However, this I have seen. I have seen more than one double lung hit survive to be killed at a later date and the DL verified. I have seen one pass-through heart shot with a 125gr Thunderhead, survive for three days. It was then killed by another hunter who said it showed no sign of any injury. That too was verified. I did a necropsy and closely examined the heart. It was without question a pass-through and healing well.

If animal is not pushed, i.e. shot and left alone to do as it wishes, many survive shots we would never think possible. I have conservatively blood trailed over 1,000 animals. I have seen a great deal, enough that nothing much surprises me anymore.


Thanks for the input John, your experience on this subject is invaluable.
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#3282676 - 07/04/13 09:10 PM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: catman529]
cozy23
6 Point


Registered: 12/10/10
Posts: 533
Loc: Wilson Co.

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 Originally Posted By: catman529
 Originally Posted By: DirtyBear0311
I almost wanna say that I'm more excited while blood trailing a deer than I am from the shot. I guess it's just the anticipation and wondering if ill find it or if the blood will just run dry.
I love blood trailing too. I almost prefer it if I don't see the deer drop, just so I can continue "the hunt" and track down the animal. But I guess it's cool watching them drop in sight too.

I like the trailing too but there is something so amazing about watching your arrow zip through and the deer never know what happened, then get to watch it topple over. I will take either situation, short trail or fall on sight.

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#3282685 - 07/04/13 09:20 PM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: cozy23]
102
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Registered: 08/01/02
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Loc: Tennessee

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The liver shot deer:

The liver is not the biggest organ in the body. The skin is. (LOL)

But the liver shot is one of those areas that get my utmost scrutiny when I have a hunter in camp who suspects he has made that shot.

I have seen one lung and liver hit deer live and travel GREAT distance over considerable time. If there is any positive associated with this shot it would have to be that there is frequently a decent blood trail to follow. Not great, but decent.

With that being said, I have also seen strictly liver shot deer live a long time and leave extremely little blood trail behind, almost like a strictly gut shot deer.

On the other hand, I have also seen liver shot deer fall within sight.

It all depends on LUCK of wether the arrow hit an artery or not.

This blood is often dark, and smelly.

And since the liver lies very close to the stomach, there may be "coffee like" substance on the arrow or in the blood trail.
_________________________
God, Family, Job, Bowhunting
Luck is where Opportunity and Preparation MEET!
When in doubt...back out!
SCAPAS.stay calm and pick a spot.

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#3282738 - 07/04/13 11:44 PM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: 102]
DirtyBear0311
8 Point


Registered: 09/01/12
Posts: 1234
Loc: Milan, TN

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 Originally Posted By: 102
The liver shot deer:

The liver is not the biggest organ in the body. The skin is. (LOL)

But the liver shot is one of those areas that get my utmost scrutiny when I have a hunter in camp who suspects he has made that shot.

I have seen one lung and liver hit deer live and travel GREAT distance over considerable time. If there is any positive associated with this shot it would have to be that there is frequently a decent blood trail to follow. Not great, but decent.

With that being said, I have also seen strictly liver shot deer live a long time and leave extremely little blood trail behind, almost like a strictly gut shot deer.

On the other hand, I have also seen liver shot deer fall within sight.

It all depends on LUCK of wether the arrow hit an artery or not.

This blood is often dark, and smelly.

And since the liver lies very close to the stomach, there may be "coffee like" substance on the arrow or in the blood trail.



I've liver shot deer before and had that coffee bean like matter show up. What exactly is that?
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#3282822 - 07/05/13 07:18 AM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: DirtyBear0311]
102
10 Point


Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 4018
Loc: Tennessee

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 Originally Posted By: DirtyBear0311
 Originally Posted By: 102
The liver shot deer:

The liver is not the biggest organ in the body. The skin is. (LOL)

But the liver shot is one of those areas that get my utmost scrutiny when I have a hunter in camp who suspects he has made that shot.

I have seen one lung and liver hit deer live and travel GREAT distance over considerable time. If there is any positive associated with this shot it would have to be that there is frequently a decent blood trail to follow. Not great, but decent.

With that being said, I have also seen strictly liver shot deer live a long time and leave extremely little blood trail behind, almost like a strictly gut shot deer.

On the other hand, I have also seen liver shot deer fall within sight.

It all depends on LUCK of wether the arrow hit an artery or not.

This blood is often dark, and smelly.

And since the liver lies very close to the stomach, there may be "coffee like" substance on the arrow or in the blood trail.



I've liver shot deer before and had that coffee bean like matter show up. What exactly is that?


It is the pre or partially digested food from the stomach. Sometimes you can tell that it is acorns or corn.
_________________________
God, Family, Job, Bowhunting
Luck is where Opportunity and Preparation MEET!
When in doubt...back out!
SCAPAS.stay calm and pick a spot.

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#3282823 - 07/05/13 07:19 AM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: DirtyBear0311]
102
10 Point


Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 4018
Loc: Tennessee

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Next time you gut a deer, pay close attention to how the lungs kinda wrap around the heart. The heart hangs down below the lungs a bit, but the lungs are above the heart, and actually pretty far below the spine.

Right next to, and actually separating the chest cavity (where the lungs are) from the abdominal cavity (containing stomach, liver, intestines, kidneys, bladder, etc.) is a thin muscle stretching from side to side and top to bottom...the diaphram.

The stomach and liver are right next to this diaphram and actually lay upon each other.

Many times I have double lung shot a deer early in the morning after the deer had obviously gorged itself all night on either corn or acorns. (not uncommon when you are hunting pre-rut and deer are heavily feeding preparing for the distraction of the rut when feeding may be very random).
And even though my arrow obviously did pass through both lungs, at no angle, there would be this "coffee granular" matter all over the arrow.

Autopsy reveals that the arrow actually passed through both lungs AND the stomach, which was absolutely BLOATED with food and putting pressure on the diaphram and actually pushing up into what would normally be chest cavity area. (btw, I have felt like this many a time after a hearty, glutonous, Thanksgiving meal).
_________________________
God, Family, Job, Bowhunting
Luck is where Opportunity and Preparation MEET!
When in doubt...back out!
SCAPAS.stay calm and pick a spot.

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#3284363 - 07/07/13 05:49 AM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: 102]
102
10 Point


Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 4018
Loc: Tennessee

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So what is the answer to "marginal" hits or shots on arrow shot deer?
After hundreds of blood trails, I am sure I have not "seen it all", but I do believe WE have seen MOST scenarios. And in so doing, there is a common thread. WHEN IN DOUBT,BACK OUT.

I can't say how many times I have said this, but it has been a BUNCH. "I am not sure where the arrow went in, but I KNOW where it came out." (usually guts) "So let's give this deer some time."

In all the years (combined in our group this is over 150 years experience) and all the blood trails, well over 500, probably closer to 1000, we have lost only a hanfull of deer to coyotes or spoilage.
But before we started backing out, our loss rate was much higher.

I always ask the hunter who I am helping, "would you rather take a CHANCE on spoiled or eaten (by coyotes) deer meat yet KNOW for certain what happened to your deer (where you hit it, etc.), or push the deer now and take a chance on NEVER knowing for sure what happened because you did not give the animal a chance to lie down and die?"

I have NEVER asked this question where a hunter answered he would rather push the deer and take a chance on losing it, when that deer was a big buck.
IMO, BOTH buck and doe should be treated equal when blood trailing.
_________________________
God, Family, Job, Bowhunting
Luck is where Opportunity and Preparation MEET!
When in doubt...back out!
SCAPAS.stay calm and pick a spot.

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#3284369 - 07/07/13 06:01 AM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: 102]
deerhunter10
10 Point


Registered: 08/21/12
Posts: 3251
Loc: maury county tn

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I shot an 8 last year with the muzzle loader perfect double lung shot at 50 yards and we found 1 little bitty drop of blood. He ran about 40 yards. I saw this happen with one of my buddies and uncle hunting with a muzzle loader and once with a rifle perfect shot little to no blood. I've learned every single feet acts a little different when you shoot them. Although I'm not a huge fan and a lot of other people on here aren't a huge fan. I do believe that hunting shows hav helped with deer recovery. By always emphasising if in doubt back out. And it is a great quote to track by. And certainly use it. As said before if you bump a gut hit or even liver hit deer your chances of recovering that deer is highly unlikely. You got to have patience trailing a deer as you do hunting them.

Edited by deerhunter10 (07/07/13 06:02 AM)
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#3284374 - 07/07/13 06:24 AM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: 102]
102
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Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 4018
Loc: Tennessee

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So many times I hear hunters say, "it was warm or even hot weather so we decided to keep looking".
Usually this is a HUGE mistake.

Remember, deer that are hit in marginal areas, (stomach, intestines, one lung, liver/stomach, even lung/liver), often do not die from blood loss, they die from septic shock or blood poisoning. And this take HOURS.
It is common for these animals to run off after the shot for a few yards, frequently less than 200, and lie down.
We rarely find these animals by tracking blood. Most often it is from walking grid patterns.

Here is a common mis-conception about the warm weather and gut shot deer.
"It is warm so the meat will spoil faster".

Actually, it is warm so the deer will live a lot longer than if it were freezing. The injured deer will often find a comfortable bed and lie down. It will most likely be watching its back trail. Approach this animal and it will see you and slip off long before you find its bed if you are early.

If the deer is alive, meat is NOT spoiling. It may be getting bacteria on it, but it is not spoiling. You do, however, need to toss the inside tenders on gut shot deer.

A few years ago, I was sitting over an intersection of trails in Illinois in January. It looked like a spider web from 20 feet up the tree. It was an antlerless hunt
There was still 6-8 inches of snow on the ground from a snow that occurred ten days prior to my hunt. IT WAS COLD. Deer were stressed and hungry. Food sources were scarce and deer were very nocturnal. I opted to hunt close to a road where I knew deer would be eating frozen honeysuckle, or what was left of it.

Right at dark, and against the white ground cover, I began to see movement all over the place. At eighteen yards I zipped an arrow through a small doe. I immediately knew it was a bad hit from the "watermelon" thump and arched back. She only ran about 40 yards and laid down. I watched her well past dark and climbed down taking care to be very quiet.
I walked out knowing coyotes were bad in the area and fully expected to find her stripped carcass the next morning.
(not making excuses here but 8 layers of clothing and a cold body really can have negative affects on your shooting accuracy)

Twelve hours later, I walked straight to the bed where I saw her lay down the eve before and there she was. Unconscious but breathing. I finished her off.
This was TWELVE hours later, a SMALL doe, in below freezing temps on SNOW covered ground.

This is not a pretty story but it demonstrates exactly what I am talking about. And I have seen this many times before, and since. Turns out the shot was side to side through the intestines. Poison killed this deer. The meat was fine however the insider tenders get tossed on all gut shot deer.

Had I not seen this deer, and opted for a night blood trail, I feel certain I would never have recovered this animal.

Again, a gut shot deer by bow, OR GUN, is a terrible thing that should be avoided. But occasionally it happens. Hunt long enough and kill enough deer and it will happen to you.

If it does, maybe you can learn from some of our mistakes. I know we have.


Edited by 102 (07/07/13 06:26 AM)
_________________________
God, Family, Job, Bowhunting
Luck is where Opportunity and Preparation MEET!
When in doubt...back out!
SCAPAS.stay calm and pick a spot.

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