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#3282942 - 07/05/13 10:38 AM Re: BSK, gonna love this one [Re: redblood]
jlmustain
6 Point


Registered: 01/01/13
Posts: 786
Loc: Murfreesboro, TN

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I've enjoyed his site. I don't know about the biology of it all, but I can appreciate what I read from folks who do know deer biology, especially if it relates to helping put meat in my freezer. Knowing stomach chambers isn't as big a deal to me as making sure I don't puncture it.

BSK, do you have a 'site/blog with articles about the biology of deer and how it relates to hunting them?

As for the moon, I don't yet see a correlation between it and deer movement, intrinsically. Practically, though, I do pay attention to it, especially in December if fuller moons occur on clear nights. I do see a correlation there in that they all seem to put up shop by shooting hours on pressured land since they can accomplish what they need to by the moon's light.

I can see where it would frustrate a deer biologist to read unproven or false claims by non-biologists who claim to be.

As for the rut, I've only paid attention to what chases does, and since the moon's never done that, I don't pay it much mind.
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No hunt is all skill. If not for a little luck, no one would hunt.

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#3282943 - 07/05/13 10:38 AM Re: BSK, gonna love this one [Re: BSK]
MattR
8 Point


Registered: 09/22/12
Posts: 1714
Loc: Nashville

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: jlmustain
Do you think any of his info' has to do with locale?



 Quote:
I'm not saying what's he's written is correct, but it's not like he doesn't have any deer on the wall.



I'm not saying successful trophy hunters don't know anything about deer. What I'm saying is the knowledge required to be a successful trophy hunter is VERY different than what is required to understand deer herd biology and management. What I often see with successful trophy hunters is they make exceptionally savvy observations about deer behavior that help them pattern and understand daylight deer movements better than the vast majority of other hunters, but they jump to completely erroneous conclusions as to biologically WHY deer are doing the things they observe them doing.

Having sound biological knowledge of deer can make you a more successful hunter, but on its own, that knowledge won't make you a successful trophy hunter. Other more specialized knowledge is required. In the same vein, knowledge of successful tactics for trophy bucks does not make one a biologist. The two types of knowledge are quite different.


So, basically, they are great at knowing how, and maybe when deer do something, as opposed to a biologist knowing why they do it. I would rather know why.


Edited by MattR (07/05/13 10:42 AM)
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#3282944 - 07/05/13 10:43 AM Re: BSK, gonna love this one [Re: redblood]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
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 Originally Posted By: redblood
i dont know about the accuracy of his predictions-time will solve that riddle...


"Time" (and good research) have already solved the question of the accuracy of his rut predictions. They are inaccurate.
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#3282946 - 07/05/13 10:47 AM Re: BSK, gonna love this one [Re: MattR]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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 Originally Posted By: MattR
 Originally Posted By: BSK
I'm not saying successful trophy hunters don't know anything about deer. What I'm saying is the knowledge required to be a successful trophy hunter is VERY different than what is required to understand deer herd biology and management. What I often see with successful trophy hunters is they make exceptionally savvy observations about deer behavior that help them pattern and understand daylight deer movements better than the vast majority of other hunters, but they jump to completely erroneous conclusions as to biologically WHY deer are doing the things they observe them doing.


So, basically, they are great at knowing how, and maybe when deer do something, as opposed to a biologist knowing why they do it.


Correct. Good hunters often notice patterns in deer activity that they later exploit to their advantage, making them more successful killers of specific deer. However, noticing the pattern doesn't explain why that pattern occurs. Knowing why that pattern occurs can also provide predictive information that leads to hunting success.
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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

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#3282954 - 07/05/13 11:04 AM Re: BSK, gonna love this one [Re: jlmustain]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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 Originally Posted By: jlmustain
I didn't take it personally. I'm just trying to figure out the issue. So is his reliance and usage of the solunar calendar is your beef?


My first beef is his promotion of bad information--information (that moon cycles trigger breeding timing in deer) that has been known to be false for a number of years; long enough that he should know better, as that information has been widely available. My second beef, not directed at the author but at many hunters, is that because he has killed some nice bucks, hunters will assume he is very knowledgeable about deer biology and management issues. The author may be a wealth of information about hunting big bucks in the Midwest, but that doesn't automatically mean he has knowledge of deer biology and management. Yet hunters will see his bucks on the wall, make the illogical leap that he "knows what he's talking about," and then soak in everything he has to say, ignoring the facts learned through real science.

That last part may seem unimportant, as people are free to believe anything they want, and good scientists often disagree on what the "truth" really is. But as an educator, ever since "professional hunters" and their self-aggrandizing TV shows became popular, I have had to spend the vast majority of my time "undoing" all the bad information these "pros" spout and hunters eat up because they heard it on TV from a pro hunter. If those pro hunters would take the time to educate themselves, they could be a huge help in educating hunters on biologically sound management concepts. Unfortunately, they don't appear to be interested in that, and worse yet, it often appears their promotion of false information is linked to personal monetary gain.

Personally, I have no problem with people benefitting monetarily from the commercialization of deer hunting or knowledge of deer. But if you're going to "sell information," then sell accurate information.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3282970 - 07/05/13 11:42 AM Re: BSK, gonna love this one [Re: BSK]
jlmustain
6 Point


Registered: 01/01/13
Posts: 786
Loc: Murfreesboro, TN

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Do you have a 'site? If not, have you thought about it? De-bunking myths is always an audience magnet.
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#3282987 - 07/05/13 12:07 PM Re: BSK, gonna love this one [Re: jlmustain]
MattR
8 Point


Registered: 09/22/12
Posts: 1714
Loc: Nashville

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Too many people take the garbage that comes out of alot of these "professional hunters" mouths as a fact when it is very far from the truth and this article proves it. Misinformation. It makes it a lot harder for hunters who are trying to soak up all the deer hunting information they can when you have people writing information that they do not understand or know to be fact.
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#3282993 - 07/05/13 12:24 PM Re: BSK, gonna love this one [Re: 102]
Winchester
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Registered: 12/05/03
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 Originally Posted By: 102
Consistently killing mature bucks involves not only knowledge but time and opportunity. Knowledge not only of the animal but of the terrain and food sources. However, the overriding factor in consistently killing mature bucks on any land, private or public is luck.



EXACTLY!

I agree to a point, but when this feat is achieved on a consistent basis, much much more is involved than luck alone! I agree luck plays a role, but to do this consistently is far from lucky alone!

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#3283001 - 07/05/13 12:37 PM Re: BSK, gonna love this one [Re: jlmustain]
Poser
Mud Dauber
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Registered: 07/28/10
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 Originally Posted By: jlmustain
Do you have a 'site? If not, have you thought about it? De-bunking myths is always an audience magnet.


"Deer Myth Busters" would be a good one. There is definitely a need for a blog like that.
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#3283017 - 07/05/13 01:19 PM Re: BSK, gonna love this one [Re: jlmustain]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
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Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: jlmustain
Do you have a 'site?


Yes. TNdeer.com! \:\)

Actually, I used to answer questions on several deer hunting talk forums, but I mainly stick to TNdeer and ALdeer these days.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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