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#3288738 - 07/11/13 03:10 PM Re: BSK, gonna love this one [Re: Wes Parrish]
102
10 Point


Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 4073
Loc: Tennessee

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 Originally Posted By: Wes Parrish
IN MY AREA, most celebrity TV hunters would be eating tag soup. \:D

One thing that does make it "easier" for most of these TV hunters to kill an older buck is the fact that most shows are filmed in areas with VERY LITTLE if any prior hunting. What I'm saying is that deer move around a lot more during daylight when they haven't been hunted much or not hunted at all. Prime examples of this daytime deer movement (and relatively easy hunting) would be say if you were allowed to spend a few days hunting on President's Island or inside Cades Cove.


I absolutely agree Wes.

and further more, it isn't just the fact that these deer have low pressure, they often have landowners, guides, scouts (whatever you want to call them) doing stand placement, camera monitoring, and actually long range surveillance.

I know for a fact that there have been many times whereby a TV "pro" will get a call from an outfitter to be told what is being seen and where and when. These high percentage stands are often kept OFF LIMITS to "regular" clients in preparation for the film crew to show up and "endorse" a particular outfitter.

Anyone that has spent much time in front of the TV and watched many deer hunting shows has surely heard of Milk River Montana.
Maybe Hadley Creek Outfitters or McMillan River Adventures. And possibly Southern Sportsmans Lodge.

Don't get me wrong, I understand why these outfits would hold the primo spots for, well, Primos. I would too.

But I agree with BSK on this.
_________________________
God, Family, Job, Bowhunting
Luck is where Opportunity and Preparation MEET!
When in doubt...back out!
SCAPAS.stay calm and pick a spot.

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#3288765 - 07/11/13 03:27 PM Re: BSK, gonna love this one [Re: 102]
Wes Parrish
16 Point


Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 19410
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN

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 Originally Posted By: 102
. . . . .it isn't just the fact that these deer have low pressure, they often have landowners, guides, scouts (whatever you want to call them) doing stand placement, camera monitoring, and actually long range surveillance.

. . . . . These high percentage stands are often kept OFF LIMITS to "regular" clients in preparation for the film crew to show up and "endorse" a particular outfitter.

Very true.

All too often, the celebrity "hunter" simply shows up to do the shooting.

Another factor that makes spotting and patterning a particular buck easier in many Mid-West locations (Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, etc.) are the large open areas, whereas much of the Southeast is large wooded areas.

Along these lines, I went to a seminar a few years ago where the celebrity hunter speaker talked about how he got up an extra hour early each morning so he could monitor the multiple trail cams which were piping in the most recent (and real-time) cam pics to multiple monitors in his bedroom. It seemed almost like having GPS collars on each large buck, so you would know exactly where each was located as you headed at for the morning hunt.

After reviewing where all the deer were, which directions they appeared to be traveling, etc., it was much easier to decide which fence row and which stand to hunt and from which direction to approach in order to target a particular buck. The "target" animal in reviewing the live footage could also be in locating the first doe on the farm to come into estrous, and/or any estrous doe that was currently "hot". Go hunt there.

Don't take me wrong, I'm not condemning this hunter for using his real time trail cams, just pointing out that his strategy wouldn't work nearly so well in the pine forests of Georgia or a place like Catoosa WMA. In this particular case, he was doing his own hunting, and certainly, hunting skills are necessary. Just saying geographic location plays heavily into the outcome, including the density of bucks above a certain score or age. And that strategies which work easily and well on a large farm in Iowa may not work at all on in the Cherokee National Forest.

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#3288779 - 07/11/13 03:40 PM Re: BSK, gonna love this one [Re: Wes Parrish]
Master Chief
10 Point


Registered: 10/11/11
Posts: 2896
Loc: Henderson County

sleepy Online
 Originally Posted By: Wes Parrish
IN MY AREA, most celebrity TV hunters would be eating tag soup. \:D

One thing that does make it "easier" for most of these TV hunters to kill an older buck is the fact that most shows are filmed in areas with VERY LITTLE if any prior hunting. What I'm saying is that deer move around a lot more during daylight when they haven't been hunted much or not hunted at all. Prime examples of this daytime deer movement (and relatively easy hunting) would be say if you were allowed to spend a few days hunting on President's Island or inside Cades Cove.


Exactly.. it also doesn't hurt that they are hunting well managed properties where patterning deer is much easier than an unmanaged WMA in TN..heck, even WI.

I want to see a real hunting show about killing mature bucks, regardless of antler size, on public land. Problem is, most "pro" hunters wouldn't be successful enough to make enough episodes.
_________________________
Shed hunting and trail camera addict

"It's not whatcha got, it's what you give." -Tesla

"In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks."
-John Muir

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#3288785 - 07/11/13 03:48 PM Re: BSK, gonna love this one [Re: Master Chief]
bowriter
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 42048
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

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 Originally Posted By: Master Chief
 Originally Posted By: Wes Parrish
IN MY AREA, most celebrity TV hunters would be eating tag soup. \:D

One thing that does make it "easier" for most of these TV hunters to kill an older buck is the fact that most shows are filmed in areas with VERY LITTLE if any prior hunting. What I'm saying is that deer move around a lot more during daylight when they haven't been hunted much or not hunted at all. Prime examples of this daytime deer movement (and relatively easy hunting) would be say if you were allowed to spend a few days hunting on President's Island or inside Cades Cove.


Exactly.. it also doesn't hurt that they are hunting well managed properties where patterning deer is much easier than an unmanaged WMA in TN..heck, even WI.

I want to see a real hunting show about killing mature bucks, regardless of antler size, on public land. Problem is, most "pro" hunters wouldn't be successful enough to make enough episodes.


It is not a television show but there is a video that is very similar to what you are talking about. It is called the secrets of Whitetail deer and it is available from Stoney Wolf Productions. Although most of the hunting is on private land, all of it has been hunted and none of the hunts are guided. The hunter does all the scouting, stand hanging and hunting. He even misses a shot or two.

There is a huge problem with a show such as you describe. Only 9-people will watch it and no company will sponsor it. But I will say thhis, as I have said before, some of those tv hunters will do as well as anybody on public land and probably better than most. Some of them are dang good hunters and had to be to get to where they are. It is just that the constraints of tv has ruined them. I beoieve it is called money.
_________________________

Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.

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#3288869 - 07/11/13 05:19 PM Re: BSK, gonna love this one [Re: 102]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65673
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: 102
and further more, it isn't just the fact that these deer have low pressure, they often have landowners, guides, scouts (whatever you want to call them) doing stand placement, camera monitoring, and actually long range surveillance.

I know for a fact that there have been many times whereby a TV "pro" will get a call from an outfitter to be told what is being seen and where and when. These high percentage stands are often kept OFF LIMITS to "regular" clients in preparation for the film crew to show up and "endorse" a particular outfitter.


Yup.

Now don't get me wrong. I'm not against anyone for doing this or trying to make a living by filming/selling hunting shows. More power to them.

But I just wish they would be honest about all of this in the shows. I really think most hunters would understand if it was explained just what these shows have to do to get half a dozen huge bucks kills on film each year. Basically, they don't have the time to "hunt" like most hunters do.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3288872 - 07/11/13 05:22 PM Re: BSK, gonna love this one [Re: BSK]
Wes Parrish
16 Point


Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 19410
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
Basically, they don't have the time to "hunt" like most hunters do.

Basically, they just show up to make the "shot".

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#3288879 - 07/11/13 05:31 PM Re: BSK, gonna love this one [Re: Vermin93]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65673
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Vermin93
 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: JCDEERMAN
I bet your real thrilled about these 2013 season dates. I too hate when muzzy opens so late.


I hate the years when MZ opens as late as it possibly can, like this upcoming year. We're going to miss the vast majority at opportunities on mature bucks.


As you know there are a number of potential solutions to this issue. All of them end in "bow", and one of them looks to be relatively easy. Why miss it when you don't have to? Why not buy a crossbow and some bolts and lock and load?


As much as I would like to make a silly comment about how much I hate archery hunting, the real reason we do not hunt with bows or crossbows is the number of chances we get at any one particular buck. Although it has happened a handful of times, the vast majority of encounters we've had with old bucks are one-time deals. We get one chance and that's it. I don't want that one chance to be when I've got a 25-yard weapon in my hands and the buck is at 40 yards. Honestly, that really is the biggest reason.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3288925 - 07/11/13 06:59 PM Re: BSK, gonna love this one [Re: Master Chief]
JCDEERMAN
14 Point


Registered: 07/19/08
Posts: 8437
Loc: NASHVILLE, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Master Chief
 Originally Posted By: Wes Parrish
IN MY AREA, most celebrity TV hunters would be eating tag soup. \:D

One thing that does make it "easier" for most of these TV hunters to kill an older buck is the fact that most shows are filmed in areas with VERY LITTLE if any prior hunting. What I'm saying is that deer move around a lot more during daylight when they haven't been hunted much or not hunted at all. Prime examples of this daytime deer movement (and relatively easy hunting) would be say if you were allowed to spend a few days hunting on President's Island or inside Cades Cove.


Exactly.. it also doesn't hurt that they are hunting well managed properties where patterning deer is much easier than an unmanaged WMA in TN..heck, even WI.

I want to see a real hunting show about killing mature bucks, regardless of antler size, on public land. Problem is, most "pro" hunters wouldn't be successful enough to make enough episodes.


Same here. That would be a great learning experience. Problem is, it can't be done IMO. Even if it can be done, it has to be done ENOUGH to keep viewers watching and making money as a program. I just don't see that happening. Maybe it's just me. But i would absolutely love to see that as well, MC!
_________________________
Be nervous, but fear no one

In God we trust

God bless the USA!

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#3288931 - 07/11/13 07:07 PM Re: BSK, gonna love this one [Re: BSK]
JCDEERMAN
14 Point


Registered: 07/19/08
Posts: 8437
Loc: NASHVILLE, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: Vermin93
 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: JCDEERMAN
I bet your real thrilled about these 2013 season dates. I too hate when muzzy opens so late.


I hate the years when MZ opens as late as it possibly can, like this upcoming year. We're going to miss the vast majority at opportunities on mature bucks.


As you know there are a number of potential solutions to this issue. All of them end in "bow", and one of them looks to be relatively easy. Why miss it when you don't have to? Why not buy a crossbow and some bolts and lock and load?


As much as I would like to make a silly comment about how much I hate archery hunting, the real reason we do not hunt with bows or crossbows is the number of chances we get at any one particular buck. Although it has happened a handful of times, the vast majority of encounters we've had with old bucks are one-time deals. We get one chance and that's it. I don't want that one chance to be when I've got a 25-yard weapon in my hands and the buck is at 40 yards. Honestly, that really is the biggest reason.


I pretty much have the same feelings on this, BSK. However, I do bow hunt and love it, but the chances of killing a 3 1/2 or older buck on our property during bow is somewhat unrealistic. Last year, we tried something different and didn't bow hunt the property until muzzy. We bow hunted elsewhere. When muzzy came, it was UNREAL the bucks we saw and deer in general! Much more than the previous 11 years! They didn't have a freakin clue \:D . We will be doing that from now on for sure. Having said that Vermin, I will probably bow hunt there towards the end of OCT - start or NOV....unless I have already killed a good buck.
_________________________
Be nervous, but fear no one

In God we trust

God bless the USA!

Top
#3288971 - 07/11/13 08:00 PM Re: BSK, gonna love this one [Re: BSK]
102
10 Point


Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 4073
Loc: Tennessee

Offline
 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: Vermin93
 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: JCDEERMAN
I bet your real thrilled about these 2013 season dates. I too hate when muzzy opens so late.


I hate the years when MZ opens as late as it possibly can, like this upcoming year. We're going to miss the vast majority at opportunities on mature bucks.


As you know there are a number of potential solutions to this issue. All of them end in "bow", and one of them looks to be relatively easy. Why miss it when you don't have to? Why not buy a crossbow and some bolts and lock and load?


As much as I would like to make a silly comment about how much I hate archery hunting, the real reason we do not hunt with bows or crossbows is the number of chances we get at any one particular buck. Although it has happened a handful of times, the vast majority of encounters we've had with old bucks are one-time deals. We get one chance and that's it. I don't want that one chance to be when I've got a 25-yard weapon in my hands and the buck is at 40 yards. Honestly, that really is the biggest reason.


GREAT point BSK, And EXACTLY why I so enjoy this "supreme" challenge.

I have related that story MANY times to friends and fellow hunters. On ALL of my mature buck kills in November, EACH AND EVERY time except for one, I have had mere seconds to draw, bleat to stop the deer while adjusting for yardage, pick a spot,and release the arrow.
It has worked out well (for me, not so good for the deer) each time except once. Shoulder bone hit.

You are right though, I have seen bucks several more times when things could have turned out differently, had I been using a rifle.
And on almost EVERY occasion, it has been a ONE TIME encounter.
_________________________
God, Family, Job, Bowhunting
Luck is where Opportunity and Preparation MEET!
When in doubt...back out!
SCAPAS.stay calm and pick a spot.

Top
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