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#3285790 - 07/08/13 03:28 PM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: DirtyBear0311]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65411
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: DirtyBear0311
 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: Mike Belt
For those that prefer to blood trail....Would you rather a deer drop on the spot or that it runs out of sight leaving a blood trail? I love blood trailing deer but the problem is that in almost every instance I can think of the deer ran farther away rather than towards where I was parked making for a much harder, longer job of dragging.


I only attempt certain "knockdown" shots (primarily the high shoulder shot) when 1) I'm using a weapon that can easily produce that effect (has the speed and impact power); and 2) the deer is standing still and broadside. All other shots--no matter the weapon--are targeted for a double-lung hit, which often doesn't produce a knockdown.



What type of a weapon would produce that hit? Would a faster/lighter controlled expansion bullet do it or would it need to be a slower, heavier bullet?


For whatever reason, bullet velocity appears to be a major player in "knockdown" power. Anything flying at near 3,000 FPS will easily produce a knockdown when targeting the the high shoulder area (and the bullet doesn't have to strike the spine, just the shoulder blade).

I have attempted "knockdowns" with huge, heavy bullets, fly slow, and it doesn't work well unless you actually hit the spine.

Back when I worked cull projects, everybody used very rapidly expanding bullets, but ONLY knockdown shots were allowed. The last thing we needed was to be blood-trail 10+ deer a night. In those projects, if you couldn't make a high shoulder shot, you didn't take the shot. But for recreational hunting, I use controlled expansion (penetrating) bullets and aim most often for a double lung hit. Blood-trailing one deer at night isn't that much of a problem!
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#3285891 - 07/08/13 05:51 PM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: BSK]
MattR
8 Point


Registered: 09/22/12
Posts: 1712
Loc: Nashville

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: DirtyBear0311
 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: Mike Belt
For those that prefer to blood trail....Would you rather a deer drop on the spot or that it runs out of sight leaving a blood trail? I love blood trailing deer but the problem is that in almost every instance I can think of the deer ran farther away rather than towards where I was parked making for a much harder, longer job of dragging.


I only attempt certain "knockdown" shots (primarily the high shoulder shot) when 1) I'm using a weapon that can easily produce that effect (has the speed and impact power); and 2) the deer is standing still and broadside. All other shots--no matter the weapon--are targeted for a double-lung hit, which often doesn't produce a knockdown.



What type of a weapon would produce that hit? Would a faster/lighter controlled expansion bullet do it or would it need to be a slower, heavier bullet?


For whatever reason, bullet velocity appears to be a major player in "knockdown" power. Anything flying at near 3,000 FPS will easily produce a knockdown when targeting the the high shoulder area (and the bullet doesn't have to strike the spine, just the shoulder blade).

I have attempted "knockdowns" with huge, heavy bullets, fly slow, and it doesn't work well unless you actually hit the spine.

Back when I worked cull projects, everybody used very rapidly expanding bullets, but ONLY knockdown shots were allowed. The last thing we needed was to be blood-trail 10+ deer a night. In those projects, if you couldn't make a high shoulder shot, you didn't take the shot. But for recreational hunting, I use controlled expansion (penetrating) bullets and aim most often for a double lung hit. Blood-trailing one deer at night isn't that much of a problem!


My buddy tries his shots for knockdown like you are describing, he was hitting the deer broadside but I think he aims for the middle/top of the shoulder. Anyways it did not work out for him so well, he had several deer that he shot and hit and not one of them dropped, and 1 all we found was hair. Normally I would consider that he was missing but the guy is a great shot and has some beautiful deer he killed to prove it.. I guess he could of been using wrong bullets?
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#3285894 - 07/08/13 05:53 PM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: BSK]
catman529
spiderboy
16 Point


Registered: 11/10/10
Posts: 16635
Loc: Franklin TN

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I knocked down 2 deer in a row last year with a 150 gr 30-30 soft point bullet. Velocity isn't quite 3,000 if I'm not mistaken. Might be high 2's. One was a doe and one was her button fawn. Doe was heart shot and fawn was lung shot, but both entered high shoulder from a fairly steep angle (50 feet in a tree and 40 and 50 yards from the tree). Both dropped in their tracks.
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#3285919 - 07/08/13 06:34 PM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: catman529]
bowriter
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Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 41874
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

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I too trail every deer and examine every trail even when I can see the deer lying there. That is how you get knowledge. I have posted before, a picture of a deer I killed in 11" of fresh snow thatran 65-yards and never spilled a drop. I saw him fall but trailed him the entire way, track for track. Not a drop of blood, even where he fell.

The shot was a complete pass through taking both lungs and the top of the heart. He was stone dead on his feet, heart not pumping, therefore no blood is my theory. I'll see if I can find the picture.

Note the trail behind him, just stumbling and falling but not a drop of blood. Think how hard this would have neen with no snow or heavy ground cover.



Edited by bowriter (07/08/13 06:44 PM)
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#3285945 - 07/08/13 07:29 PM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: 102]
nodog
4 Point


Registered: 08/12/12
Posts: 297
Loc: Ohio

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 Originally Posted By: 102

The problem I have with dogs is that they are rather difficult to haul around on out of town trips. And I refuse to leave a dog penned up all the time. Especially when it is hot. And often times I hunt when it is hot (one of my biggest bucks was killed in Illinois on a record breaking November 86 degree day)


That's for sure, mine was a huge pain in the neck 95% of his life, but that 5% of the time was a thrill. Still, something can be setup if travelings the game. There are dogs that aren't as high maintenance as mine was that do a great job of tracking, smaller too. Mine was about 100 pounds.
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#3285971 - 07/08/13 08:02 PM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: BSK]
timberjack86
14 Point


Registered: 06/20/11
Posts: 7941
Loc: Grundy county

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: Mike Belt
For those that prefer to blood trail....Would you rather a deer drop on the spot or that it runs out of sight leaving a blood trail? I love blood trailing deer but the problem is that in almost every instance I can think of the deer ran farther away rather than towards where I was parked making for a much harder, longer job of dragging.


I only attempt certain "knockdown" shots (primarily the high shoulder shot) when 1) I'm using a weapon that can easily produce that effect (has the speed and impact power); and 2) the deer is standing still and broadside. All other shots--no matter the weapon--are targeted for a double-lung hit, which often doesn't produce a knockdown.
I know you and others have probably killed more deer than I have but I would like to share my experience.When I am using my 270 I always try to break both shoulders With broadside shot. I aim for the middle of the shoulder blade. On slight quartering shots I have broke only one shoulder and have had to finish the deer off with a second shot. Once I had to shoot a buck at point blank range after he jumped up after a high shoulder shot. I am kinda leary about a High shoulder shot now. A shot midway up through both shoulders with the right bullet will almost certainly kill the deer on impact.IMO
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#3286100 - 07/08/13 09:55 PM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: timberjack86]
JCDEERMAN
14 Point


Registered: 07/19/08
Posts: 8408
Loc: NASHVILLE, TN

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With my .35 Marlin, I have killed over 20 deer with that thing. It has a 200 gr shell and I always aim for dead middle of the shoulder. To this day only one deer has not dropped dead in its tracks and she rad 25 yards
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#3286286 - 07/09/13 08:30 AM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: timberjack86]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65411
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: timberjack86
 Originally Posted By: BSK
I only attempt certain "knockdown" shots (primarily the high shoulder shot) when 1) I'm using a weapon that can easily produce that effect (has the speed and impact power); and 2) the deer is standing still and broadside. All other shots--no matter the weapon--are targeted for a double-lung hit, which often doesn't produce a knockdown.
I know you and others have probably killed more deer than I have but I would like to share my experience.When I am using my 270 I always try to break both shoulders With broadside shot. I aim for the middle of the shoulder blade. On slight quartering shots I have broke only one shoulder and have had to finish the deer off with a second shot.


And the above is exactly why I don't attempt the high shoulder shot unless the deer is perfectly broadside.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3286291 - 07/09/13 08:37 AM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: BSK]
Mike Belt
TnDeer Old Timer
16 Point


Registered: 03/26/99
Posts: 17880
Loc: Lakeland, Tn.

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I like the ballistics of ballistic bullets but I'm almost never getting any more drop dead on the spot deer. I may have to change up bullets.
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