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#3278882 - 06/30/13 08:10 AM Blood Trailing deer.
102
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For those of you who may not have a whole bunch of experience on this topic, and as a refresher to us all, here are a few thoughts based on experience from a combined 150 years of deer hunting (in my group) and hundreds of blood trails.

First of all, allow me to suggest that almost all of these scenarios are arrow wounds and recoveries. Not to say that there aren't also a whole bunch of muzzleloader and rifle kills mixed in for experience. Mostly, unless otherwise posted, our discussion will concern blood loss, and/or infection, as the primary killer of these deer.

Note that high speed bullets kill animals with not only blood loss, but also hydrostatic shock. In layman terms...the bullet hits the animal at such a high rate of speed that it sends a "shock wave" (think ripple in a pool) through the animal that causes massive tissue damage.

A broadhead slices veins and arteries which bleed and cause shock from blood loss and eventually death.
The more blood loss the quicker the death.

[b]A double lung[/b] shot deer has extreme difficulty getting oxygen to the blood and brain and quickly looses consciousness and death comes quickly. MOST of the time, you will likely see or hear the deer crash.

It is possible, in VERY RARE cases, (I have witnessed a few) that a deer can survive a double lung shot with both entry and exit wounds prevalent.

A thoraxic surgeon friend who has seen this himself in deer (and people), explains that IF a deer has the right mix of fat and hide, and has its body turned or twisted in such a way that upon returning itself to "normal" position this hair and hide "covers" the wounds, it is possible for the animal to survive for a length of time. Possibly even recovering from the wound.

In my line of work we call this an occlusive dressing.

more to come later
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#3278993 - 06/30/13 11:30 AM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: 102]
catman529
spiderboy
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One of the members here, Gil, lost a doe a couple seasons ago that showed up on trail cam with huge scars from what appeared to be a double lung shot with a rage broadhead. Nobody could figure out how she survived.
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#3279112 - 06/30/13 04:18 PM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: catman529]
Hollar Hunter
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Edited by Hollar Hunter (06/30/13 04:19 PM)
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#3279153 - 06/30/13 05:30 PM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: Hollar Hunter]
ROUGH COUNTRY HUNTER
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they will amaze you sometimes
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#3279225 - 06/30/13 07:08 PM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: ROUGH COUNTRY HUNTER]
tickweed
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I don't know, but it seems very unlikely to me that a deer could survive a double lung shot with an arrow. No calling you out 102, but with todays broadheads, not much chance. Maybe one lung yes, but both, the partys over.
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#3279241 - 06/30/13 07:28 PM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: tickweed]
102
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 Originally Posted By: tickweed
I don't know, but it seems very unlikely to me that a deer could survive a double lung shot with an arrow. No calling you out 102, but with todays broadheads, not much chance. Maybe one lung yes, but both, the partys over.


Trust me on this tickweed, I WAS completely certain you were right. Afterall, if a double lung deer does survive, chances are you won't know because you won't find it, RIGHT???

I just could not be convinced that a double lung hit deer could survive.

And then one day (and several hundred kills later) it happened.

I made the "perfect" double lung shot and it survived. Only to be killed later by a friend later.

Now I have seen this repeated.

And I have seen this on video and game cams.

RARE...but true!
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#3279320 - 06/30/13 09:27 PM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: 102]
hunter0925
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Registered: 01/21/13
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I killed a 8 pt a few years ago that had been shot during bow season. This was toward the end of rifle so I would say it was late December. The buck had been hit hi but not out of the vitals. I would say it would have definitely hit lung and he was making it just fine.
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#3279432 - 07/01/13 05:15 AM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: hunter0925]
102
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I only made mention of the double lung survivor to emphasize this: when blood trailing deer, always remember there are no absolutes.
We have seen double lung shot deer survive, and gut shot deer die within seconds.

Speaking of gut shot deer:
These type wounds are probably the most challenging to recover. These wounds are also, IMO, completely unacceptable. I am not proud at all to say I have accidentally shot several deer through the guts. And I have also been with many others who also accidentally gut shot deer. I would never encourage gut shooting any animal. It is a painful, long, and suffering death.
When I started bow hunting, I did not know how to recover this type wound, and lost a few, only to find them days or weeks later, by the smell or by seeing buzzards.

In almost all cases, gut shot deer are DEAD deer. They simply can't survive the infection (septosis) caused by bowel and or stomach contents spilled out into the body cavity. The biggest problem with these animals is that they have no idea what is going on. And if need be, especially in the first few minutes of the injury, they can travel a long way in mere seconds, leaving behind little or no sign.

We generally classify a gut shot deer as any deer shot behind the diaphram. In fact, I believe it is a safer bet to consider a deer that has been hit in front of the diaphram, in the chest cavity, where the arrow exited out the guts affecting only one lung, as a gut shot deer.
Gut shot deer should be allowed to expire. Trying to get close enough for a second shot and risking jumping the animal, never to see it again, is probably not a good option for most of us.

I know of no one who is capable of trailing a deer through the woods and field without that animal leaving behind at least a little bit of blood. And I have seen MANY gut shot deer that do not leave behind any blood. Or bile.
I am certain there are those hunters/trackers who are very capable of trailing a wounded deer by track without the presence of blood. I have just never met this hunter yet.
I suspect John Sloan (bowriter)may be one of these rare individuals as he insists that gut shot deer be pursued much sooner than I.

Often times, when an arrow passes through a deer in the guts, it enters and exits through areas of the body that contain a lot of fat. This fat, skin, and hair will commonly cover these exit and entrance wounds, in essence closing the holes and preventing further fluid loss. This makes blood trailing much more difficult if not impossible. Especially when one considers that there may be very little major blood carrying arteries and veins cut by the broadhead in the first place.

We have seen gut shot deer live over 20 hours. I have recovered gut shot deer as long as 18 hours after the shot and still have to shoot the animal a second time.

As always, there are exceptions. The stomach has an artery running through it called the pyloric. Slice through this artery and you will likely see this deer fall. It is a RARE shot.

Also, there will often be blood at the exit wound site on the ground.

more to come!
_________________________
God, Family, Job, Bowhunting
Luck is where Opportunity and Preparation MEET!
When in doubt...back out!
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#3279680 - 07/01/13 11:27 AM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: 102]
Winchester
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Good posts as always 102.

 Quote:
We have seen gut shot deer live over 20 hours. I have recovered gut shot deer as long as 18 hours after the shot and still have to shoot the animal a second time.

I shot a mature buck a couple years ago in ILL. about an hour before dark one afternoon. Shot looked good but his reaction after the shot and being able to watch him for a few mins before he left my sight told me to back out! 18 hours later I found his bed 70 yards from where I shot him, which at first glance didn't look like he had bled much. After close examination the leaves/ground under the top layer of leaves was actually saturated with blood, almost like a sponge effect. He had only went another 70 yards where I found him, still alive! Although very weak he could still lift his head and look at me anytime I got closer than 20 yards. Instead of turning it in to a dangerous situation, I called my Dad who was hunting not far on the opposite side of the deer, and had him sneak in and put another arrow in him in his bed while he was pre occupied with watching me.
My autopsy when field dressing him showed exactly what I thought, center of one lung and Liver, hole as big as a quarter through both with a complete pass through.
While not a perfect shot, this deer especially being left alone, should have been dead long before I got to him!
For reference I shot him with a 100 grn Slick trick magnum head, which was scary sharp and zipped right through this 215 lb field dressed deer.
Just reiterating 102's point that there is no guarantee with any shot and each situation has to be handled on its own.
For reference, I have never met the individual who can track a deer through the woods on tracks alone either! If they aren't bleeding or tearing up the leaves, you cant track them.

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#3279750 - 07/01/13 12:51 PM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: Winchester]
catman529
spiderboy
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I shot this buck 7 yards from the tree while he was moving. Had I made a noise to get him to stop, the shot would not have been 5 inches too far back. I did not cut into him to see where the arrow went, because I could already smell the exit hole in the belly. Keith (geezer) helped me out the morning after I shot him, and recovered him 24 hours after the shot, stone dead. He probably did not live long after the shot, but I did not have the experience to head straight for water like the deer and Keith did so I spent 8 hours in grown up CRP type field losing the blood trail. There was liver blood on the ground and a blood-soaked arrow, and then it dried up and the trail was lost in the thicket. I suspect the arrow probably nicked the back of the right lung, went through the liver and stomach and out the belly. It was a 7 yard chip shot but the buck was moving and I did not even think to stop him before shooting (it was my first archery buck and blood was pumping).

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#3279866 - 07/01/13 03:10 PM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: catman529]
benellivol
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Registered: 03/31/11
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I double lunged a buck that never bled a drop. I saw and heard him fall about 20 yards from where I shot him.

No blood on the ground or in the truck, but when I hung him up by the hind legs, it looked like a water faucet of blood coming out of his nose and mouth.

While I was quartering him up (I start at the back and work my way around to the guts seeing as how it takes about 10 minutes to recover the animal before butchering) the lungs filled up like balloons with blood. It was strange.

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#3280135 - 07/01/13 08:37 PM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: benellivol]
102
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Winchester,
Interesting how you used your dad to help recover your deer. We too, have had to use similar tactics to make certain terminal deer did not get "lost" after having been gut shot.

I will post more as the days go on closer to season opener.
There is much to be discussed and it is my hope that others, like have been so far, chime in to relate their experiences.

Here is a quick bit of info. If you are not doing post shot autopsies as Winchester described, you are missing out on GREAT info. Be involved with every blood trail you can. And then help with every autopsy you can. It is amazing to find out why and how that wound killed that deer.

It is my unpopular opinion that the fastest killing shot in a deer is the kidney shot. I have never shot a deer here on purpose and would never attempt to make this shot. But I have, during autopsy, discovered why that deer crashed and died so quickly. It was because I sliced the kidneys in half.

However, the kidneys are VERY small, about the size of 2 golf balls, and are very difficult to judge location at varying angles.

Another low percentage, yet VERY deadly shot is the femural artery shot. The aorta runs just under the spine and branches into two large arteries just in front of the hips. Here, these branches form two arteries called the femural arteries which run along the inside of the rear legs (femur bones). IMO, this is a lucky shot, like the spine shot or kidney shot or pyloric artery shot. ANd should never be attempted on purpose.
Often deer will not get out of sight with this shot.

Here is another observation we have concluded after hundreds of kills. It has become obvious that if a deer is "spooked" upon receiving a wound, it tends to run faster, farther, and harder than if it were shot while relaxed.

Examples of "spooking" a deer include but are not limited to:
deer watching you shoot it
deer hearing a loud bow or human sound upon release
deer being hit in the hard bone (often a "whack" sound associated with the arrow hitting the bone)
deer hearing a broadhead blade open loudly upon entry
arrow passing through and making a loud noise when arrow stops
arrow sticking out of deer and striking limbs etc as it runs off
other deer being around the shot deer and causing a "stampede" affect whereby deer keep running from fear

Remember, let this happen on a gut shot and you are in for a long, tough, trail.
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#3280496 - 07/02/13 09:54 AM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: 102]
Winchester
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As always 102's info is on the money imo. A badly spooked deer will travel much greater distance in a much faster fashion most times after being shot. Totally relaxed deer seem to travel much less distance. Ive killed a few with complete pass thrus, that didn't even hit a rib, that never knew they were shot, and actually just fell over while still somewhat feeding!
I also agree the Femural artery is about as fast a death as they come from an arrow. I had one broadside at 15 yards once and my arrow struck an unseen tiny branch and hit him square in the ham angling down. I about threw up when the arrow hit, he didn't go 40 yards and was stone dead when he hit the ground. This was many yrs ago and I was bewildered, and upon getting down there was a blood trail literally 2 feet wide for the 40 yards he went, totally bleeding out from a clean cut of the Femural artery.
Spooked and even tense deer are much more likely to cause a bad shot as well when archery hunting, as they have a much higher tendency to 'jump the string' which is just a reaction to the noise of the shot, causing bad hits many times! I will make every effort to let a calm deer stop on his own for a shot vs trying to 'stop' him where I want to shoot him.
Learning when to draw and shoot is a huge link to consistent success with archery shots imo!

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#3280613 - 07/02/13 12:11 PM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: 102]
MattR
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I've had a spine shot and it dropped him he didn't take 1 step, so we got out out of the stand, went to the truck, and gave him time to die because he was still struggling when we had walked away. When we got back about an I went to grab him, he was still alive but could only move from his front legs up. Needless to say he wasn't too happy and I ended up having to struggle like hell with him and cut his throat. I assume it barely got his spine. I hate that it happened, I don't like anything that isn't a clean kill. But the moral of the story is that it tought me first hand when I was a teen how careful you have to be with shot placement, and even when things go very well, they still might end up ugly.
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#3280618 - 07/02/13 12:16 PM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: Winchester]
102
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Winchester wrote
"I will make every effort to let a calm deer stop on his own for a shot vs trying to 'stop' him where I want to shoot him.
Learning when to draw and shoot is a huge link to consistent success with archery shots imo!"

Point well made. The way I have seen many hunters stop the deer for that shot is one of those human sounds I was referring too. I can't tell you how many times I've had to stop a deer by a bleat that ended up being too loud, or hoarse, or just odd that ended up spooking the deer after the shot.
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#3281188 - 07/03/13 04:23 AM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: 102]
102
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THE HEART SHOT DEER.

I do not understand why, but heart shot deer commonly take of like a bat out of hades.
And talk about a "stand up blood trail". I have color blind friends who can follow these. Not that much tracking is usually necessary. We almost always see, or hear, the deer fall.

When shooting a deer through the heart from an elevated position, it is not uncommon to also affect one or both lungs as well.
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God, Family, Job, Bowhunting
Luck is where Opportunity and Preparation MEET!
When in doubt...back out!
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#3281483 - 07/03/13 11:46 AM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: 102]
Winchester
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The heart is pretty low and I agree, unless your shot is very low and or your stand isn't very high, you will hit other vitals with most heart shots. Heart shot deer will actually live a lil longer and travel a lil farther than most double lung hits IMO. Which both are very short trails and easy tracking as 102 said. I LOVE to bloodtrail deer and have learned a great deal about deer just from going on every tracking job I could since I was 12! Which is now in the hundreds of bloodtrails.
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#3281486 - 07/03/13 11:50 AM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: Winchester]
catman529
spiderboy
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Heart shot deer... I had 2 perfect heart shots last year. One was a big doe at 5 yards from the tree. Hit one lung and straight through the middle of the heart. She went 50-60 yards.

The other was a doe fawn (late season) 10 yards from the tree. only hit the heart, I saw the blood coming out when it turned and ran, watched it run about 40 yards before stumbling and tipping over.


Edited by catman529 (07/03/13 11:51 AM)
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#3282001 - 07/03/13 11:26 PM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: catman529]
DirtyBear0311
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I almost wanna say that I'm more excited while blood trailing a deer than I am from the shot. I guess it's just the anticipation and wondering if ill find it or if the blood will just run dry.
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#3282248 - 07/04/13 11:06 AM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: DirtyBear0311]
catman529
spiderboy
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 Originally Posted By: DirtyBear0311
I almost wanna say that I'm more excited while blood trailing a deer than I am from the shot. I guess it's just the anticipation and wondering if ill find it or if the blood will just run dry.
I love blood trailing too. I almost prefer it if I don't see the deer drop, just so I can continue "the hunt" and track down the animal. But I guess it's cool watching them drop in sight too.
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#3282262 - 07/04/13 11:19 AM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: tickweed]
bowriter
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 Originally Posted By: tickweed
I don't know, but it seems very unlikely to me that a deer could survive a double lung shot with an arrow. No calling you out 102, but with todays broadheads, not much chance. Maybe one lung yes, but both, the partys over.


They can and do. I am hoping for six decades of hunting experience. Next year will make 60-years I have been hunting deer. In addition, I can add almost 30-years of guiding experience. I will not be so bold as to say I have seen it all. However, this I have seen. I have seen more than one double lung hit survive to be killed at a later date and the DL verified. I have seen one pass-through heart shot with a 125gr Thunderhead, survive for three days. It was then killed by another hunter who said it showed no sign of any injury. That too was verified. I did a necropsy and closely examined the heart. It was without question a pass-through and healing well.

If animal is not pushed, i.e. shot and left alone to do as it wishes, many survive shots we would never think possible. I have conservatively blood trailed over 1,000 animals. I have seen a great deal, enough that nothing much surprises me anymore.
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#3282369 - 07/04/13 01:16 PM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: bowriter]
102
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Registered: 08/01/02
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 Originally Posted By: bowriter
 Originally Posted By: tickweed
I don't know, but it seems very unlikely to me that a deer could survive a double lung shot with an arrow. No calling you out 102, but with todays broadheads, not much chance. Maybe one lung yes, but both, the partys over.


They can and do. I am hoping for six decades of hunting experience. Next year will make 60-years I have been hunting deer. In addition, I can add almost 30-years of guiding experience. I will not be so bold as to say I have seen it all. However, this I have seen. I have seen more than one double lung hit survive to be killed at a later date and the DL verified. I have seen one pass-through heart shot with a 125gr Thunderhead, survive for three days. It was then killed by another hunter who said it showed no sign of any injury. That too was verified. I did a necropsy and closely examined the heart. It was without question a pass-through and healing well.

If animal is not pushed, i.e. shot and left alone to do as it wishes, many survive shots we would never think possible. I have conservatively blood trailed over 1,000 animals. I have seen a great deal, enough that nothing much surprises me anymore.


Thanks for the input John, your experience on this subject is invaluable.
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#3282676 - 07/04/13 09:10 PM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: catman529]
cozy23
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 Originally Posted By: catman529
 Originally Posted By: DirtyBear0311
I almost wanna say that I'm more excited while blood trailing a deer than I am from the shot. I guess it's just the anticipation and wondering if ill find it or if the blood will just run dry.
I love blood trailing too. I almost prefer it if I don't see the deer drop, just so I can continue "the hunt" and track down the animal. But I guess it's cool watching them drop in sight too.

I like the trailing too but there is something so amazing about watching your arrow zip through and the deer never know what happened, then get to watch it topple over. I will take either situation, short trail or fall on sight.

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#3282685 - 07/04/13 09:20 PM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: cozy23]
102
10 Point


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Loc: Tennessee

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The liver shot deer:

The liver is not the biggest organ in the body. The skin is. (LOL)

But the liver shot is one of those areas that get my utmost scrutiny when I have a hunter in camp who suspects he has made that shot.

I have seen one lung and liver hit deer live and travel GREAT distance over considerable time. If there is any positive associated with this shot it would have to be that there is frequently a decent blood trail to follow. Not great, but decent.

With that being said, I have also seen strictly liver shot deer live a long time and leave extremely little blood trail behind, almost like a strictly gut shot deer.

On the other hand, I have also seen liver shot deer fall within sight.

It all depends on LUCK of wether the arrow hit an artery or not.

This blood is often dark, and smelly.

And since the liver lies very close to the stomach, there may be "coffee like" substance on the arrow or in the blood trail.
_________________________
God, Family, Job, Bowhunting
Luck is where Opportunity and Preparation MEET!
When in doubt...back out!
SCAPAS.stay calm and pick a spot.

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#3282738 - 07/04/13 11:44 PM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: 102]
DirtyBear0311
8 Point


Registered: 09/01/12
Posts: 1785
Loc: Milan, TN

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 Originally Posted By: 102
The liver shot deer:

The liver is not the biggest organ in the body. The skin is. (LOL)

But the liver shot is one of those areas that get my utmost scrutiny when I have a hunter in camp who suspects he has made that shot.

I have seen one lung and liver hit deer live and travel GREAT distance over considerable time. If there is any positive associated with this shot it would have to be that there is frequently a decent blood trail to follow. Not great, but decent.

With that being said, I have also seen strictly liver shot deer live a long time and leave extremely little blood trail behind, almost like a strictly gut shot deer.

On the other hand, I have also seen liver shot deer fall within sight.

It all depends on LUCK of wether the arrow hit an artery or not.

This blood is often dark, and smelly.

And since the liver lies very close to the stomach, there may be "coffee like" substance on the arrow or in the blood trail.



I've liver shot deer before and had that coffee bean like matter show up. What exactly is that?
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#3282822 - 07/05/13 07:18 AM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: DirtyBear0311]
102
10 Point


Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 4083
Loc: Tennessee

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 Originally Posted By: DirtyBear0311
 Originally Posted By: 102
The liver shot deer:

The liver is not the biggest organ in the body. The skin is. (LOL)

But the liver shot is one of those areas that get my utmost scrutiny when I have a hunter in camp who suspects he has made that shot.

I have seen one lung and liver hit deer live and travel GREAT distance over considerable time. If there is any positive associated with this shot it would have to be that there is frequently a decent blood trail to follow. Not great, but decent.

With that being said, I have also seen strictly liver shot deer live a long time and leave extremely little blood trail behind, almost like a strictly gut shot deer.

On the other hand, I have also seen liver shot deer fall within sight.

It all depends on LUCK of wether the arrow hit an artery or not.

This blood is often dark, and smelly.

And since the liver lies very close to the stomach, there may be "coffee like" substance on the arrow or in the blood trail.



I've liver shot deer before and had that coffee bean like matter show up. What exactly is that?


It is the pre or partially digested food from the stomach. Sometimes you can tell that it is acorns or corn.
_________________________
God, Family, Job, Bowhunting
Luck is where Opportunity and Preparation MEET!
When in doubt...back out!
SCAPAS.stay calm and pick a spot.

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#3282823 - 07/05/13 07:19 AM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: DirtyBear0311]
102
10 Point


Registered: 08/01/02
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Loc: Tennessee

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Next time you gut a deer, pay close attention to how the lungs kinda wrap around the heart. The heart hangs down below the lungs a bit, but the lungs are above the heart, and actually pretty far below the spine.

Right next to, and actually separating the chest cavity (where the lungs are) from the abdominal cavity (containing stomach, liver, intestines, kidneys, bladder, etc.) is a thin muscle stretching from side to side and top to bottom...the diaphram.

The stomach and liver are right next to this diaphram and actually lay upon each other.

Many times I have double lung shot a deer early in the morning after the deer had obviously gorged itself all night on either corn or acorns. (not uncommon when you are hunting pre-rut and deer are heavily feeding preparing for the distraction of the rut when feeding may be very random).
And even though my arrow obviously did pass through both lungs, at no angle, there would be this "coffee granular" matter all over the arrow.

Autopsy reveals that the arrow actually passed through both lungs AND the stomach, which was absolutely BLOATED with food and putting pressure on the diaphram and actually pushing up into what would normally be chest cavity area. (btw, I have felt like this many a time after a hearty, glutonous, Thanksgiving meal).
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#3284363 - 07/07/13 05:49 AM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: 102]
102
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So what is the answer to "marginal" hits or shots on arrow shot deer?
After hundreds of blood trails, I am sure I have not "seen it all", but I do believe WE have seen MOST scenarios. And in so doing, there is a common thread. WHEN IN DOUBT,BACK OUT.

I can't say how many times I have said this, but it has been a BUNCH. "I am not sure where the arrow went in, but I KNOW where it came out." (usually guts) "So let's give this deer some time."

In all the years (combined in our group this is over 150 years experience) and all the blood trails, well over 500, probably closer to 1000, we have lost only a hanfull of deer to coyotes or spoilage.
But before we started backing out, our loss rate was much higher.

I always ask the hunter who I am helping, "would you rather take a CHANCE on spoiled or eaten (by coyotes) deer meat yet KNOW for certain what happened to your deer (where you hit it, etc.), or push the deer now and take a chance on NEVER knowing for sure what happened because you did not give the animal a chance to lie down and die?"

I have NEVER asked this question where a hunter answered he would rather push the deer and take a chance on losing it, when that deer was a big buck.
IMO, BOTH buck and doe should be treated equal when blood trailing.
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#3284369 - 07/07/13 06:01 AM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: 102]
deerhunter10
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I shot an 8 last year with the muzzle loader perfect double lung shot at 50 yards and we found 1 little bitty drop of blood. He ran about 40 yards. I saw this happen with one of my buddies and uncle hunting with a muzzle loader and once with a rifle perfect shot little to no blood. I've learned every single feet acts a little different when you shoot them. Although I'm not a huge fan and a lot of other people on here aren't a huge fan. I do believe that hunting shows hav helped with deer recovery. By always emphasising if in doubt back out. And it is a great quote to track by. And certainly use it. As said before if you bump a gut hit or even liver hit deer your chances of recovering that deer is highly unlikely. You got to have patience trailing a deer as you do hunting them.

Edited by deerhunter10 (07/07/13 06:02 AM)
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#3284374 - 07/07/13 06:24 AM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: 102]
102
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So many times I hear hunters say, "it was warm or even hot weather so we decided to keep looking".
Usually this is a HUGE mistake.

Remember, deer that are hit in marginal areas, (stomach, intestines, one lung, liver/stomach, even lung/liver), often do not die from blood loss, they die from septic shock or blood poisoning. And this take HOURS.
It is common for these animals to run off after the shot for a few yards, frequently less than 200, and lie down.
We rarely find these animals by tracking blood. Most often it is from walking grid patterns.

Here is a common mis-conception about the warm weather and gut shot deer.
"It is warm so the meat will spoil faster".

Actually, it is warm so the deer will live a lot longer than if it were freezing. The injured deer will often find a comfortable bed and lie down. It will most likely be watching its back trail. Approach this animal and it will see you and slip off long before you find its bed if you are early.

If the deer is alive, meat is NOT spoiling. It may be getting bacteria on it, but it is not spoiling. You do, however, need to toss the inside tenders on gut shot deer.

A few years ago, I was sitting over an intersection of trails in Illinois in January. It looked like a spider web from 20 feet up the tree. It was an antlerless hunt
There was still 6-8 inches of snow on the ground from a snow that occurred ten days prior to my hunt. IT WAS COLD. Deer were stressed and hungry. Food sources were scarce and deer were very nocturnal. I opted to hunt close to a road where I knew deer would be eating frozen honeysuckle, or what was left of it.

Right at dark, and against the white ground cover, I began to see movement all over the place. At eighteen yards I zipped an arrow through a small doe. I immediately knew it was a bad hit from the "watermelon" thump and arched back. She only ran about 40 yards and laid down. I watched her well past dark and climbed down taking care to be very quiet.
I walked out knowing coyotes were bad in the area and fully expected to find her stripped carcass the next morning.
(not making excuses here but 8 layers of clothing and a cold body really can have negative affects on your shooting accuracy)

Twelve hours later, I walked straight to the bed where I saw her lay down the eve before and there she was. Unconscious but breathing. I finished her off.
This was TWELVE hours later, a SMALL doe, in below freezing temps on SNOW covered ground.

This is not a pretty story but it demonstrates exactly what I am talking about. And I have seen this many times before, and since. Turns out the shot was side to side through the intestines. Poison killed this deer. The meat was fine however the insider tenders get tossed on all gut shot deer.

Had I not seen this deer, and opted for a night blood trail, I feel certain I would never have recovered this animal.

Again, a gut shot deer by bow, OR GUN, is a terrible thing that should be avoided. But occasionally it happens. Hunt long enough and kill enough deer and it will happen to you.

If it does, maybe you can learn from some of our mistakes. I know we have.


Edited by 102 (07/07/13 06:26 AM)
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#3284428 - 07/07/13 08:01 AM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: 102]
nodog
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I'm assuming little of this applies when using a dog to track?
I had a blue tick coon hound once, there was no getting lost with that dog. It was magic watching that dog track and hearing his barks change in the development of the track. He put his nose to the ground at the start, but that was about it. He'd drag me right over every step a deer would take almost as if he saw it happen, I know because I did see it happen. The first time I used him I saw the whole thing, went and got the dog, took him to the spot the deer entered the woods before the hit and that dog stood over that deer in less than 30 seconds. He couldn't see it as it was deep in the woods. I never told him it was a deer he was after, he knew.

The only training he had was as a pup I used a little deer blood in the yard, it was all instinct. If that dog wanted to find something it was found and he lived to track down deer.

JFYI it's legal in Ohio to use a dog to TRACK not hunt.

If I was in the business of hunting with people depending upon me to find the deer they shot and dogs were legal, I certainly would use one after seeing that dog. A dog like that can find something that's up to 8' under water and with a dog like that the deer will run itself to death quickly if the hit is fatal keeping the wound bleeding out, if not the deer would never be found anyways.

There was no getting away from that dog, it was like God himself was pulling that dog to the target.

Without a dog, don't push a deer, I can't keep up with one, even one that's about to die. \:\)

One thing else, with certain weapons I own, if I use one of them and feel good about the shot, that animal was hit, it's laying somewhere, find it. Took my kids out target shooting, my oldest boy was drilling the x at 100 yrds. Set him up last season telling him what would happen. He hit the x at 135 yrds., the deer never took another step. If I know the weapon and the shooter, takes a lot of doubt out of the equation, I'm looking for that dead deer. My brother had several weapons that would do that, one was a 7mm, loved using that gun. deer after deer would just drop on the shot. I remember one that didn't, great shot, brother found it, he was part blood hound I think. \:\)

Thanks for all the advice, good stuff.
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#3284547 - 07/07/13 10:11 AM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: nodog]
BSK
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nodogs,

I've seen amazing success rates with the use of blood-trailing dogs.
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#3284557 - 07/07/13 10:14 AM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: deerhunter10]
BSK
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 Originally Posted By: deerhunter10
I shot an 8 last year with the muzzle loader perfect double lung shot at 50 yards and we found 1 little bitty drop of blood. He ran about 40 yards. I saw this happen with one of my buddies and uncle hunting with a muzzle loader and once with a rifle perfect shot little to no blood.


Hunt long enough and you will see deer fatally hit that do not bleed, even from the most powerful rifle rounds perfectly placed. I honestly can't count the number of times I've seen this over the years.
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#3284585 - 07/07/13 10:43 AM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: deerhunter10]
JCDEERMAN
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 Originally Posted By: deerhunter10
I shot an 8 last year with the muzzle loader perfect double lung shot at 50 yards and we found 1 little bitty drop of blood. He ran about 40 yards.


The buck I shot last year with a muzzleloader was a 100 yard shot and went straight through the heart. He ran about 60 yards and didn't find one drop of blood until where he landed. There was blood ALL over the place there where he lay. I saw him land, which was actually closer to me than where he stood when I took the shot. I glassed him for 10 minutes before I got down and knew he had died.

As I do with all deer whether I see them drop or not, I attempted to look for blood along the path he took. No blood found, but followed his tracks and turned over leaves right to him. This keeps me "in tune". I think this should be good practice for everyone. After numerous times doing this, one day it will pay off when you NEED all of that self-taught experience.

I have seen many circumstances where the deer doesn't bleed a drop. Happened to my cousin last year on the same property at a 3 1/2, though he didn't see blood in the field or 30 yards into the woods and assumed he missed. The buck was found next weekend 100 yards from the field. I wish I had been there when the deer was shot \:\(
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#3284620 - 07/07/13 11:25 AM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: JCDEERMAN]
DirtyBear0311
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Im curious if the "no blood effect" seems to happen more to one type of weapon than others such as a muzzle loader vs a bow?
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#3284704 - 07/07/13 01:28 PM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: DirtyBear0311]
102
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 Originally Posted By: DirtyBear0311
Im curious if the "no blood effect" seems to happen more to one type of weapon than others such as a muzzle loader vs a bow?


Not in our experience. It is pretty universal.
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When in doubt...back out!
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#3284731 - 07/07/13 01:59 PM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: 102]
BSK
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 Originally Posted By: 102
 Originally Posted By: DirtyBear0311
Im curious if the "no blood effect" seems to happen more to one type of weapon than others such as a muzzle loader vs a bow?


Not in our experience. It is pretty universal.


Agreed.

And although I've seen it with every weapon type and every projectile, I will say it happens more often (in firearms) with fast-expanding bullets. That's why, personally, I prefer penetrating bullets over fast-expanding bullets. An exit wound makes a bloodless trail less likely.
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#3284749 - 07/07/13 02:25 PM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: BSK]
DirtyBear0311
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very well, thanks
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#3284762 - 07/07/13 02:47 PM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: BSK]
EastTNHunter
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 Originally Posted By: BSK


And although I've seen it with every weapon type and every projectile, I will say it happens more often (in firearms) with fast-expanding bullets. That's why, personally, I prefer penetrating bullets over fast-expanding bullets. An exit wound makes a bloodless trail less likely.


I couldn't agree more. That is why I went away from Ballistic Tips and Powerbelts, and lightweight Shockwaves/SSTs. I prefer a heavy for caliber bullet and one that holds together pretty good.

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#3284765 - 07/07/13 02:53 PM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: EastTNHunter]
EastTNHunter
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A actually enjoy bloodtrailing deer, and this has been a very interesting and informative thread.
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#3284836 - 07/07/13 03:57 PM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: EastTNHunter]
BSK
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 Originally Posted By: EastTNHunter
 Originally Posted By: BSK


And although I've seen it with every weapon type and every projectile, I will say it happens more often (in firearms) with fast-expanding bullets. That's why, personally, I prefer penetrating bullets over fast-expanding bullets. An exit wound makes a bloodless trail less likely.


I couldn't agree more. That is why I went away from Ballistic Tips and Powerbelts, and lightweight Shockwaves/SSTs. I prefer a heavy for caliber bullet and one that holds together pretty good.


I avoid any "power-shock" or Ballistic Tip bullet of any kind, as well as any "expanding" type sabotted MZ bullet. I use "controlled expansion" rifle bullets and full-diameter MZ bullets that expand little at all (you don't need to expand a 50-caliber bullet--that's a big entrance and exit hole).
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#3284843 - 07/07/13 03:59 PM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: JCDEERMAN]
BSK
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 Originally Posted By: JCDEERMAN
As I do with all deer whether I see them drop or not, I attempted to look for blood along the path he took. No blood found, but followed his tracks and turned over leaves right to him. This keeps me "in tune". I think this should be good practice for everyone. After numerous times doing this, one day it will pay off when you NEED all of that self-taught experience.


I can't agree more with this. Even if you know exactly where a deer is, practice blood-trailing at every opportunity. Blood-trailing is one of those skills you can never practice enough. That kind of relentless practice will pay off huge some day.
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#3284924 - 07/07/13 05:38 PM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: BSK]
102
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 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: JCDEERMAN
As I do with all deer whether I see them drop or not, I attempted to look for blood along the path he took. No blood found, but followed his tracks and turned over leaves right to him. This keeps me "in tune". I think this should be good practice for everyone. After numerous times doing this, one day it will pay off when you NEED all of that self-taught experience.


I can't agree more with this. Even if you know exactly where a deer is, practice blood-trailing at every opportunity. Blood-trailing is one of those skills you can never practice enough. That kind of relentless practice will pay off huge some day.



X 3

Also, be there on the gutting.
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#3285153 - 07/07/13 08:41 PM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: BSK]
nodog
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 Originally Posted By: BSK
nodogs,

I've seen amazing success rates with the use of blood-trailing dogs.


There are something aren't they, it's just amazing. I think everyone should experience the thrill once in a life time. It's like nothing else seeing a dog like that work.

I remember the first time I heard his bark change when he knew he was on it, like a rocket blasted off in front of me while I was holding the leash. Better than a fire works display. People really can't grasp it till they see it first hand. Just beautiful.
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#3285163 - 07/07/13 08:58 PM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: BSK]
nodog
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 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: JCDEERMAN
As I do with all deer whether I see them drop or not, I attempted to look for blood along the path he took. No blood found, but followed his tracks and turned over leaves right to him. This keeps me "in tune". I think this should be good practice for everyone. After numerous times doing this, one day it will pay off when you NEED all of that self-taught experience.


I can't agree more with this. Even if you know exactly where a deer is, practice blood-trailing at every opportunity. Blood-trailing is one of those skills you can never practice enough. That kind of relentless practice will pay off huge some day.

Thrills the soul!
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#3285318 - 07/08/13 05:11 AM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: nodog]
102
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Last year, early October, I actually had on coveralls. It was cool.
I did not expect to be wearing these this early and had not "refreshed" my memory on affected accuracy.

I was unzipped for cooling by ten AM and had a buck wander into range.

As I drew the buck made a quick hop that caused me to contort and caused my bow string to catch the zipper on my coveralls.
Needless to say, the arrow went WAY off course and entered the deer back in the ham, angling forward exiting the intestines. Made me sick.

I knew the deer was dead, and knew I had to leave it.

Just before dark, and against my better judgement, (about 8 hours after the shot)I took up the blood trail and jumped the deer. I was hunting close to home and already had a dog for the next day if needed so I pushed when I knew I should probably have waited.

After the jump I went home.

Next day my buddy brought his dog on a leash.

Walked RIGHT TO the dead deer.

Meat was fine.

The total distance traveled before the jump was about 100 yards. Had I left it alone till next morning I would have found this deer there, in its' first bed.
Instead, the dog had to find it 300 yards down the trail (no blood) where I may not have found it in time to salvage the meat.

The problem I have with dogs is that they are rather difficult to haul around on out of town trips. And I refuse to leave a dog penned up all the time. Especially when it is hot. And often times I hunt when it is hot (one of my biggest bucks was killed in Illinois on a record breaking November 86 degree day)


Edited by 102 (07/08/13 05:13 AM)
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#3285539 - 07/08/13 10:30 AM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: 102]
Mike Belt
TnDeer Old Timer
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For those that prefer to blood trail....Would you rather a deer drop on the spot or that it runs out of sight leaving a blood trail? I love blood trailing deer but the problem is that in almost every instance I can think of the deer ran farther away rather than towards where I was parked making for a much harder, longer job of dragging.

I also agree that looking for a blood trail or any signs the deer made on his death run (even when the downed deer is in sight) is good practice. I always do that rather than just walking straight to the downed deer.
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#3285549 - 07/08/13 10:42 AM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: Mike Belt]
DirtyBear0311
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 Originally Posted By: Mike Belt
For those that prefer to blood trail....Would you rather a deer drop on the spot or that it runs out of sight leaving a blood trail? I love blood trailing deer but the problem is that in almost every instance I can think of the deer ran farther away rather than towards where I was parked making for a much harder, longer job of dragging.

I also agree that looking for a blood trail or any signs the deer made on his death run (even when the downed deer is in sight) is good practice. I always do that rather than just walking straight to the downed deer.




I believe that I would still prefer to trail despite the extra effort of the drag. I figure that its a small price to pay if just a bit of work for a great thrill and the chance to gain more knowledge.
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#3285600 - 07/08/13 11:40 AM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: Mike Belt]
BSK
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 Originally Posted By: Mike Belt
For those that prefer to blood trail....Would you rather a deer drop on the spot or that it runs out of sight leaving a blood trail? I love blood trailing deer but the problem is that in almost every instance I can think of the deer ran farther away rather than towards where I was parked making for a much harder, longer job of dragging.


I only attempt certain "knockdown" shots (primarily the high shoulder shot) when 1) I'm using a weapon that can easily produce that effect (has the speed and impact power); and 2) the deer is standing still and broadside. All other shots--no matter the weapon--are targeted for a double-lung hit, which often doesn't produce a knockdown.
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#3285708 - 07/08/13 01:50 PM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: BSK]
DirtyBear0311
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 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: Mike Belt
For those that prefer to blood trail....Would you rather a deer drop on the spot or that it runs out of sight leaving a blood trail? I love blood trailing deer but the problem is that in almost every instance I can think of the deer ran farther away rather than towards where I was parked making for a much harder, longer job of dragging.


I only attempt certain "knockdown" shots (primarily the high shoulder shot) when 1) I'm using a weapon that can easily produce that effect (has the speed and impact power); and 2) the deer is standing still and broadside. All other shots--no matter the weapon--are targeted for a double-lung hit, which often doesn't produce a knockdown.



What type of a weapon would produce that hit? Would a faster/lighter controlled expansion bullet do it or would it need to be a slower, heavier bullet?
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#3285790 - 07/08/13 03:28 PM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: DirtyBear0311]
BSK
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 Originally Posted By: DirtyBear0311
 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: Mike Belt
For those that prefer to blood trail....Would you rather a deer drop on the spot or that it runs out of sight leaving a blood trail? I love blood trailing deer but the problem is that in almost every instance I can think of the deer ran farther away rather than towards where I was parked making for a much harder, longer job of dragging.


I only attempt certain "knockdown" shots (primarily the high shoulder shot) when 1) I'm using a weapon that can easily produce that effect (has the speed and impact power); and 2) the deer is standing still and broadside. All other shots--no matter the weapon--are targeted for a double-lung hit, which often doesn't produce a knockdown.



What type of a weapon would produce that hit? Would a faster/lighter controlled expansion bullet do it or would it need to be a slower, heavier bullet?


For whatever reason, bullet velocity appears to be a major player in "knockdown" power. Anything flying at near 3,000 FPS will easily produce a knockdown when targeting the the high shoulder area (and the bullet doesn't have to strike the spine, just the shoulder blade).

I have attempted "knockdowns" with huge, heavy bullets, fly slow, and it doesn't work well unless you actually hit the spine.

Back when I worked cull projects, everybody used very rapidly expanding bullets, but ONLY knockdown shots were allowed. The last thing we needed was to be blood-trail 10+ deer a night. In those projects, if you couldn't make a high shoulder shot, you didn't take the shot. But for recreational hunting, I use controlled expansion (penetrating) bullets and aim most often for a double lung hit. Blood-trailing one deer at night isn't that much of a problem!
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#3285891 - 07/08/13 05:51 PM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: BSK]
MattR
8 Point


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 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: DirtyBear0311
 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: Mike Belt
For those that prefer to blood trail....Would you rather a deer drop on the spot or that it runs out of sight leaving a blood trail? I love blood trailing deer but the problem is that in almost every instance I can think of the deer ran farther away rather than towards where I was parked making for a much harder, longer job of dragging.


I only attempt certain "knockdown" shots (primarily the high shoulder shot) when 1) I'm using a weapon that can easily produce that effect (has the speed and impact power); and 2) the deer is standing still and broadside. All other shots--no matter the weapon--are targeted for a double-lung hit, which often doesn't produce a knockdown.



What type of a weapon would produce that hit? Would a faster/lighter controlled expansion bullet do it or would it need to be a slower, heavier bullet?


For whatever reason, bullet velocity appears to be a major player in "knockdown" power. Anything flying at near 3,000 FPS will easily produce a knockdown when targeting the the high shoulder area (and the bullet doesn't have to strike the spine, just the shoulder blade).

I have attempted "knockdowns" with huge, heavy bullets, fly slow, and it doesn't work well unless you actually hit the spine.

Back when I worked cull projects, everybody used very rapidly expanding bullets, but ONLY knockdown shots were allowed. The last thing we needed was to be blood-trail 10+ deer a night. In those projects, if you couldn't make a high shoulder shot, you didn't take the shot. But for recreational hunting, I use controlled expansion (penetrating) bullets and aim most often for a double lung hit. Blood-trailing one deer at night isn't that much of a problem!


My buddy tries his shots for knockdown like you are describing, he was hitting the deer broadside but I think he aims for the middle/top of the shoulder. Anyways it did not work out for him so well, he had several deer that he shot and hit and not one of them dropped, and 1 all we found was hair. Normally I would consider that he was missing but the guy is a great shot and has some beautiful deer he killed to prove it.. I guess he could of been using wrong bullets?
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#3285894 - 07/08/13 05:53 PM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: BSK]
catman529
spiderboy
16 Point


Registered: 11/10/10
Posts: 17592
Loc: Franklin TN

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I knocked down 2 deer in a row last year with a 150 gr 30-30 soft point bullet. Velocity isn't quite 3,000 if I'm not mistaken. Might be high 2's. One was a doe and one was her button fawn. Doe was heart shot and fawn was lung shot, but both entered high shoulder from a fairly steep angle (50 feet in a tree and 40 and 50 yards from the tree). Both dropped in their tracks.
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#3285919 - 07/08/13 06:34 PM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: catman529]
bowriter
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Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 42314
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

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I too trail every deer and examine every trail even when I can see the deer lying there. That is how you get knowledge. I have posted before, a picture of a deer I killed in 11" of fresh snow thatran 65-yards and never spilled a drop. I saw him fall but trailed him the entire way, track for track. Not a drop of blood, even where he fell.

The shot was a complete pass through taking both lungs and the top of the heart. He was stone dead on his feet, heart not pumping, therefore no blood is my theory. I'll see if I can find the picture.

Note the trail behind him, just stumbling and falling but not a drop of blood. Think how hard this would have neen with no snow or heavy ground cover.



Edited by bowriter (07/08/13 06:44 PM)
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#3285945 - 07/08/13 07:29 PM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: 102]
nodog
4 Point


Registered: 08/12/12
Posts: 297
Loc: Ohio

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 Originally Posted By: 102

The problem I have with dogs is that they are rather difficult to haul around on out of town trips. And I refuse to leave a dog penned up all the time. Especially when it is hot. And often times I hunt when it is hot (one of my biggest bucks was killed in Illinois on a record breaking November 86 degree day)


That's for sure, mine was a huge pain in the neck 95% of his life, but that 5% of the time was a thrill. Still, something can be setup if travelings the game. There are dogs that aren't as high maintenance as mine was that do a great job of tracking, smaller too. Mine was about 100 pounds.
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#3285971 - 07/08/13 08:02 PM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: BSK]
timberjack86
14 Point


Registered: 06/20/11
Posts: 8269
Loc: Grundy county

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: Mike Belt
For those that prefer to blood trail....Would you rather a deer drop on the spot or that it runs out of sight leaving a blood trail? I love blood trailing deer but the problem is that in almost every instance I can think of the deer ran farther away rather than towards where I was parked making for a much harder, longer job of dragging.


I only attempt certain "knockdown" shots (primarily the high shoulder shot) when 1) I'm using a weapon that can easily produce that effect (has the speed and impact power); and 2) the deer is standing still and broadside. All other shots--no matter the weapon--are targeted for a double-lung hit, which often doesn't produce a knockdown.
I know you and others have probably killed more deer than I have but I would like to share my experience.When I am using my 270 I always try to break both shoulders With broadside shot. I aim for the middle of the shoulder blade. On slight quartering shots I have broke only one shoulder and have had to finish the deer off with a second shot. Once I had to shoot a buck at point blank range after he jumped up after a high shoulder shot. I am kinda leary about a High shoulder shot now. A shot midway up through both shoulders with the right bullet will almost certainly kill the deer on impact.IMO
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#3286100 - 07/08/13 09:55 PM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: timberjack86]
JCDEERMAN
14 Point


Registered: 07/19/08
Posts: 8447
Loc: NASHVILLE, TN

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With my .35 Marlin, I have killed over 20 deer with that thing. It has a 200 gr shell and I always aim for dead middle of the shoulder. To this day only one deer has not dropped dead in its tracks and she rad 25 yards
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#3286286 - 07/09/13 08:30 AM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: timberjack86]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65979
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: timberjack86
 Originally Posted By: BSK
I only attempt certain "knockdown" shots (primarily the high shoulder shot) when 1) I'm using a weapon that can easily produce that effect (has the speed and impact power); and 2) the deer is standing still and broadside. All other shots--no matter the weapon--are targeted for a double-lung hit, which often doesn't produce a knockdown.
I know you and others have probably killed more deer than I have but I would like to share my experience.When I am using my 270 I always try to break both shoulders With broadside shot. I aim for the middle of the shoulder blade. On slight quartering shots I have broke only one shoulder and have had to finish the deer off with a second shot.


And the above is exactly why I don't attempt the high shoulder shot unless the deer is perfectly broadside.
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#3286291 - 07/09/13 08:37 AM Re: Blood Trailing deer. [Re: BSK]
Mike Belt
TnDeer Old Timer
16 Point


Registered: 03/26/99
Posts: 18623
Loc: Lakeland, Tn.

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I like the ballistics of ballistic bullets but I'm almost never getting any more drop dead on the spot deer. I may have to change up bullets.
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