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#3265985 - 06/11/13 12:36 PM Select cutting timber?
rem270
18 Point


Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 20665
Loc: south fulton

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Getting a few loggers to give an estimate here in the next few weeks to select cut our timber. Dont know much about it all. Think we've decided to let them cut 18" or bigger trees and leave the rest.

I know theres definately some Pros and Cons. And would like to hear everyones opinions.
I know it will look like crap for a yr or two, but have heard it looks great after that.

Already got my mind made up i might not get to hunt much this year on it so im good with that.

Anyone who has had there property select cut, did it hurt the deer and turkey population bad? Thats my main concern. Last time this place was logged was around 1988. Definately some huge white and red oaks on it. And some good sized walnut trees. Looking at around 50 acres worth probably to be select cut.
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NO1 Greater- Ky Wildcats!!

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#3265991 - 06/11/13 12:42 PM Re: Select cutting timber? [Re: rem270]
JCDEERMAN
14 Point


Registered: 07/19/08
Posts: 8406
Loc: NASHVILLE, TN

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We are having the best hunting we have ever had on our place. Gets better every year starting after around the 3rd year of new growth. I'd like to cut some more next summer
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#3266089 - 06/11/13 03:14 PM Re: Select cutting timber? [Re: JCDEERMAN]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65378
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rem270,

Just remember that you can write just about anything you want into a logging contract. I've had some logging going on on my property every winter/spring/summer for the last 4 years. However, our contract with the logger states they must stop logging by Oct. 1 and may begin logging again in mid-January. That way, no logging is ongoing during hunting seasons.

In most situations, logging during the summer won't harm hunting during the season. Deer rapidly adapt to the altered forest. Now I have seen a few circumstances where logging had a major impact on hunting for a full season after logging, but that is not the norm.

How your property will look after logging, and how much effect that logging will have on future deer populations and hunting will be heavily dependent on how many trees are removed per acre. If an 18" DBH cut only removes a few trees here and there, little change will occur over time. If an 18" cut removes lots of trees, including entire groves of trees, then the future regrowth that occurs in those areas can have a profound positive effect on future deer populations (especially for the first decade after timber thinning).

And by the way, DO NOT have the loggers cut up or remove deadfalls and treetops. They may look ugly, but deer use them extensively for bedding cover the first hunting season after logging.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3266176 - 06/11/13 05:25 PM Re: Select cutting timber? [Re: BSK]
rem270
18 Point


Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 20665
Loc: south fulton

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
rem270,

Just remember that you can write just about anything you want into a logging contract. I've had some logging going on on my property every winter/spring/summer for the last 4 years. However, our contract with the logger states they must stop logging by Oct. 1 and may begin logging again in mid-January. That way, no logging is ongoing during hunting seasons.

In most situations, logging during the summer won't harm hunting during the season. Deer rapidly adapt to the altered forest. Now I have seen a few circumstances where logging had a major impact on hunting for a full season after logging, but that is not the norm.

How your property will look after logging, and how much effect that logging will have on future deer populations and hunting will be heavily dependent on how many trees are removed per acre. If an 18" DBH cut only removes a few trees here and there, little change will occur over time. If an 18" cut removes lots of trees, including entire groves of trees, then the future regrowth that occurs in those areas can have a profound positive effect on future deer populations (especially for the first decade after timber thinning).

And by the way, DO NOT have the loggers cut up or remove deadfalls and treetops. They may look ugly, but deer use them extensively for bedding cover the first hunting season after logging.


Thanks BSK.. This is a have to situation pretty much. Some family problems have come up (jealousy) and looks like we have to do it to pay for a big chunk of the property and my dad and I to take it over. There is some really good timber on it. And in a few spots will have several groves of trees cut, unless theres more $$$ than i think that is there, then maybe i can tell him to just cut every other one or something. At this time, im ready to just get it done and over with. So if it takes the logger into Sept or Oct to get it done ill just suck it up and hunt and hope for the best.

I was talking to my dad today about the deadfalls and tree tops and pretty much said the same thing you just said. I told him after its done, we can just take a few saturdays and clean up stuff we think needs cleaned up and leave what we want.
_________________________
NO1 Greater- Ky Wildcats!!

Its not what happens in life, but how you react to it that matters.

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#3266244 - 06/11/13 07:15 PM Re: Select cutting timber? [Re: rem270]
rukiddin?
8 Point


Registered: 02/04/09
Posts: 1539
Loc: E. Tenn

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I've said it many times on here before, but a forester can make the whole process A LOT less stressful. Interview them just like you would a prospective employee, make sure their fee is percentage based and go with what your gut tells you.

Many will disagree, but timber cutting, whether it be clear cutting or select cutting tends to bother hunters more than deer.
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#3266296 - 06/11/13 08:38 PM Re: Select cutting timber? [Re: rukiddin?]
tickweed
10 Point


Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 4806
Loc: medon,Tn.

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I had some select cutting done several years back one spring. I killed a gobbler one morning in the loading site, right beside the loader and skidder. Didn't bother the deer or turkeys.

Edited by tickweed (06/11/13 08:40 PM)
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#3266384 - 06/11/13 10:39 PM Re: Select cutting timber? [Re: tickweed]
TNlandowner
6 Point


Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 524
Loc: Carroll County

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I just closed a contract for a TSI based "80-acre select cut" on my farm in Carroll County. I used a great private forester that works all over NW Tn. He was a huge help with the entire process. He spent a lot of time with me to fully understand my short and long term goals. It took him several days to cruise and mark my timber in a manner that was more restrictive than I would have been.

We offered the track for bids last December, but all bids were a couple thousand $$$ under my forester's estimated value. It seemed that most loggers held their prices low, hoping to cut my better timber. I refused all offers then offered the same timber last week. We got two offers that were $12K above the December bids.

We are very happy with the logging company as the owner has already visited to discuss the cut and our expectations. He fully understands my hunting and QDM goals. He even agreed to cut the sections in order of my preference, beginning with a future 2 acre pond site.

As BSK suggested, I excluded logging from 01 September - 15 January. To make this fair for the loggers, I gave them 18 instead of 12 months to cut the timber.

All in all, this has been a fantastic learning experience. In my opinion, it was well worth paying for professional help.

Good luck,
Jim
_________________________
Never be afraid to lead for the right cause.

"Whom shall I send, and who will go for Us?" Then I said, "Here am I. Send me!"

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#3266459 - 06/12/13 06:26 AM Re: Select cutting timber? [Re: TNlandowner]
landman
8 Point


Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 2486
Loc: TN & Western KY

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Timber cutting is always a plus for me

I had loggers on site Aug 1st last year for a select cut plus 8 acres of clear cuts. By Sept 15th they were done and the clear cuts were planted, timing was great for me, all stumps gone,
people have a hard time believing it wasn't hardwoods instead
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#3266466 - 06/12/13 06:40 AM Re: Select cutting timber? [Re: TNlandowner]
Boll Weevil
8 Point


Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 1223
Loc: Hardeman

content Online
 Originally Posted By: TNlandowner
I just closed a contract for a TSI based "80-acre select cut" on my farm in Carroll County.

This is super information Jim; thanks for sharing your experience in this regard.

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#3266546 - 06/12/13 08:37 AM Re: Select cutting timber? [Re: Boll Weevil]
treefarmer
4 Point


Registered: 07/11/11
Posts: 326
Loc: Humphreys County, TN

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Definately use a professional forester for the timber sale. For 8-10% they will give you advice, go out for bids, create the contract, oversee the cutting and clean-up and the extra cost is recovered in better bids because they know who the buyers are. Also remember a "select cut" usually means the good trees are taken and the junk is left behind to create your next forest unless you or your forester select the trees to be taken. My elderly neighbor just select cut using a timber "broker" (real estate agent) after a phone cold-call and it is a disaster - the roads are impassable, the good trees are the only ones taken, and his deer lessee has said he won't re-sign because the roads can't be used even using a 4-wheeler. Ask your State area forester who he recommends for a consulting forester.
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#3266599 - 06/12/13 09:20 AM Re: Select cutting timber? [Re: treefarmer]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65378
Loc: Nashville, TN

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Foresters can really make the sale and cutting process much, MUCH easier for those who cannot monitor progress or know what timber needs removing and what needs protecting. The only downside is loss of profit (forester's cut). But sometimes, "getting it done right" is more important than profit.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3266737 - 06/12/13 01:17 PM Re: Select cutting timber? [Re: treefarmer]
TNlandowner
6 Point


Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 524
Loc: Carroll County

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 Originally Posted By: treefarmer
Definately use a professional forester for the timber sale....Ask your State area forester who he recommends for a consulting forester.


I completely agree with Tree farmer... I believe Rick Stutts is the TN State Forester in your area. I send his cell # by PM.

Jim
_________________________
Never be afraid to lead for the right cause.

"Whom shall I send, and who will go for Us?" Then I said, "Here am I. Send me!"

Isaiah 6:8

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#3266742 - 06/12/13 01:19 PM Re: Select cutting timber? [Re: BSK]
TNlandowner
6 Point


Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 524
Loc: Carroll County

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
Foresters can really make the sale and cutting process much, MUCH easier for those who cannot monitor progress or know what timber needs removing and what needs protecting. The only downside is loss of profit (forester's cut). But sometimes, "getting it done right" is more important than profit.


Not always the case, but I made well over $10K extra by using a forester. I would have accepted the December bids without expert help. As BSK stated, "getting it done right" was my main objectives. I was very restrictive on when and how they will cut my place.
_________________________
Never be afraid to lead for the right cause.

"Whom shall I send, and who will go for Us?" Then I said, "Here am I. Send me!"

Isaiah 6:8

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#3266784 - 06/12/13 02:21 PM Re: Select cutting timber? [Re: TNlandowner]
Boll Weevil
8 Point


Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 1223
Loc: Hardeman

content Online
Jim...I sent you a PM.
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#3266860 - 06/12/13 03:54 PM Re: Select cutting timber? [Re: TNlandowner]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65378
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: TNlandowner
 Originally Posted By: BSK
Foresters can really make the sale and cutting process much, MUCH easier for those who cannot monitor progress or know what timber needs removing and what needs protecting. The only downside is loss of profit (forester's cut). But sometimes, "getting it done right" is more important than profit.


Not always the case, but I made well over $10K extra by using a forester. I would have accepted the December bids without expert help. As BSK stated, "getting it done right" was my main objectives. I was very restrictive on when and how they will cut my place.


I never have logging done by bid. I have it done by load of timber cut (and taking a percentage of each load sold). But then I do have some understanding of what is being cut, its value, and I can be there from time to time to make sure loads aren't going out the door I don't know about. Most people do not have those luxuries and could easily get cheated.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3266891 - 06/12/13 04:54 PM Re: Select cutting timber? [Re: TNlandowner]
rukiddin?
8 Point


Registered: 02/04/09
Posts: 1539
Loc: E. Tenn

Offline
 Originally Posted By: TNlandowner
I just closed a contract for a TSI based "80-acre select cut" on my farm in Carroll County. I used a great private forester that works all over NW Tn. He was a huge help with the entire process. He spent a lot of time with me to fully understand my short and long term goals. It took him several days to cruise and mark my timber in a manner that was more restrictive than I would have been.

We offered the track for bids last December, but all bids were a couple thousand $$$ under my forester's estimated value. It seemed that most loggers held their prices low, hoping to cut my better timber. I refused all offers then offered the same timber last week. We got two offers that were $12K above the December bids.

We are very happy with the logging company as the owner has already visited to discuss the cut and our expectations. He fully understands my hunting and QDM goals. He even agreed to cut the sections in order of my preference, beginning with a future 2 acre pond site.

As BSK suggested, I excluded logging from 01 September - 15 January. To make this fair for the loggers, I gave them 18 instead of 12 months to cut the timber.

All in all, this has been a fantastic learning experience. In my opinion, it was well worth paying for professional help.

Good luck,
Jim


Amen to that!! My dad had a pretty good chunk of land cut 3-4 years ago and was very pleased with the forester he used. There was $80,000 dollars difference between high bid and low bid. He had about 30 acres of pines that were not cut at that time, so he called his forester last year to see about cutting them. Forester told him not to cut due to the market and wait till this year and prices would be going back up....He saved (or made) my dad a lot of money by doing that. Once my dad signed the contract for this forester, he told my dad, the 6% fee was good for however long my dad needed his assistance with anything to do with pericular tract of land...
_________________________
Just because you do not agree with my opinion, it does'nt make me wrong!

"I'm gone to carolina in my mind"

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#3278780 - 06/29/13 09:55 PM Re: Select cutting timber? [Re: rukiddin?]
RutnStrut
4 Point


Registered: 08/21/02
Posts: 333
Loc: Tullahoma, TN

Offline
Just curious,how much could one expect to get per acre select cutting a forest that has large trees, mostly oak, that has not been cut in over 50 years? The land is mostly hills and hollars. There is a 40 acre tract going up for auction next month adjoining my place and I have no idea what the timber value is. Guestiments welcome just to give me an idea, I was thinking of only cutting 20 inch or larger since the forest is rather mature.
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#3279161 - 06/30/13 05:42 PM Re: Select cutting timber? [Re: RutnStrut]
RutnStrut
4 Point


Registered: 08/21/02
Posts: 333
Loc: Tullahoma, TN

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Was hoping to here what some of you guys that have recently logged have averaged per acre? Any guestimates from timberjack or others would be appreciated too.
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#3279212 - 06/30/13 06:30 PM Re: Select cutting timber? [Re: RutnStrut]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65378
Loc: Nashville, TN

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At a 40% take, I got anywhere from $1,500 to $3,000 per acre.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3279275 - 06/30/13 08:32 PM Re: Select cutting timber? [Re: BSK]
rem270
18 Point


Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 20665
Loc: south fulton

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We had a logger come out last Tues who was very professional and had a good rep around here. He said we have about the biggest stand of poplar hes ever seen and lots of them, but our oaks need 5 more years of growth to them. So looks like were holding off for a little while.
_________________________
NO1 Greater- Ky Wildcats!!

Its not what happens in life, but how you react to it that matters.

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#3279364 - 06/30/13 10:15 PM Re: Select cutting timber? [Re: rem270]
RutnStrut
4 Point


Registered: 08/21/02
Posts: 333
Loc: Tullahoma, TN

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Thanks BSK, that's the kind of info I need to figure out how much I can bid at the auction. I really need at least $1000 an acre to make it affordable. I might need to contact you about a logger if things go my way at the auction, I am in Middle TN too.
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#3279545 - 07/01/13 08:45 AM Re: Select cutting timber? [Re: RutnStrut]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65378
Loc: Nashville, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: RutnStrut
Thanks BSK, that's the kind of info I need to figure out how much I can bid at the auction. I really need at least $1000 an acre to make it affordable. I might need to contact you about a logger if things go my way at the auction, I am in Middle TN too.


Good luck finding a logger. I spent years trying to find a logger I liked/trusted, and then he went and retired! \:\(
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3279763 - 07/01/13 01:13 PM Re: Select cutting timber? [Re: BSK]
RutnStrut
4 Point


Registered: 08/21/02
Posts: 333
Loc: Tullahoma, TN

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Hate to here that your logger retired, hopefully I can find a logger as good as the one you had if I get lucky at the auction.
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