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#3246480 - 05/14/13 05:07 PM Re: Hey BSK [Re: BSK]
Wes Parrish
16 Point


Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 19063
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN

Offline
Thanks, BSK, for sharing your thoughts. \:\)

I know antler high-grading of the largest antlered yearling, 2 1/2 & 3 1/2's is not a significant issue everywhere there's hunting, but it has appeared most problematic in many places where the hunters were trying harder to "manage" more for larger antlered mature bucks, particularly by using "antler restrictions" such as "4 on a side" or "8 or better".
Go figure.

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#3246510 - 05/14/13 05:37 PM Re: Hey BSK [Re: Wes Parrish]
woodsman87
8 Point


Registered: 09/27/12
Posts: 1274
Loc: south TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Wes Parrish
Thanks, BSK, for sharing your thoughts. \:\)

I know antler high-grading of the largest antlered yearling, 2 1/2 & 3 1/2's is not a significant issue everywhere there's hunting, but it has appeared most problematic in many places where the hunters were trying harder to "manage" more for larger antlered mature bucks, particularly by using "antler restrictions" such as "4 on a side" or "8 or better".
Go figure.

I agree with this. But i am also not in the know how on aging them on the hoof. I look at the sticky thread at the top, but it's still hard, especially when you never see deer on camera or in person that fit the 3-1/2 year old qualities.
The reason why i do antler restrictions is because i want to shoot a nice buck antler size that makes me happy, or nervous while shooting him. I would much rather kill a big 6 or 8 pointer that was 4-1/2 to 5-1/2 than a 2-1/2 or 3-1/2 that had a little bigger rack. Sounds crazy, but i could give a crap about Boone and Crockett. Its all about the experience, and if i kill a 5plus old buck i have felt like I've done something. I don't know how to age jawbones or on the hoof, but I'm pretty sure i have never killed one over 3-1/2, or one that scored higher than 120-125. I don't kill many, but most of the bucks i have killed have probably been 2-1/2 year old 90-100" eight pointers. That is because it "excited" me when i saw it.

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#3246514 - 05/14/13 05:40 PM Re: Hey BSK [Re: Wes Parrish]
BigAl
16 Point


Registered: 07/31/01
Posts: 19073
Loc: Fayette County, TN US

Offline
Ok, here's my opinion:

BSK is a loon.
Wes is too.

But if they say DrDeer is an idiot, I believe them.
_________________________
Walls: Leading the way outdoors.

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#3246518 - 05/14/13 05:50 PM Re: Hey BSK [Re: Big Gun]
Boll Weevil
8 Point


Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 1184
Loc: Hardeman

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Big Gun
Property in western Hardeman Co. about half & half timber to ag land and he doesn't want any does killed.

Holy smokes...if there's ANY area in the entire State where we need to pull the trigger on more does it's here. Provided we weren't talking about a sprawling 9.2 acre tract or something (4.5 acres in cedars and privet + 4.7 acres in some poor fellow's truck patch). It is downright difficult to manage herd density and sex ratio in these parts.

As you can hopefully see by my response, I am of the opinion that a decision to not kill does in this area seems a bit ill-advised.

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#3246558 - 05/14/13 07:12 PM Re: Hey BSK [Re: Boll Weevil]
BigAl
16 Point


Registered: 07/31/01
Posts: 19073
Loc: Fayette County, TN US

Offline
Boll Weevil, its almost 3500 acres. Believe me, there are plenty of does.
_________________________
Walls: Leading the way outdoors.

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#3246603 - 05/14/13 08:01 PM Re: Hey BSK [Re: BigAl]
280longshot
8 Point


Registered: 09/20/10
Posts: 1313
Loc: Tn, Tipton

Offline
 Originally Posted By: BigAl
Boll Weevil, its almost 3500 acres. Believe me, there are plenty of does.

X2
_________________________
Semper Fi
HMM-161
HMM-364

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#3246635 - 05/14/13 08:36 PM Re: Hey BSK [Re: 280longshot]
Boll Weevil
8 Point


Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 1184
Loc: Hardeman

Offline
Choot!! Choot'em Alizabeth!!
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#3246985 - 05/15/13 09:04 AM Re: Hey BSK [Re: woodsman87]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 64856
Loc: Nashville, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: woodsman87

I agree with this. But i am also not in the know how on aging them on the hoof. I look at the sticky thread at the top, but it's still hard, especially when you never see deer on camera or in person that fit the 3-1/2 year old qualities.
The reason why i do antler restrictions is because i want to shoot a nice buck antler size that makes me happy, or nervous while shooting him. I would much rather kill a big 6 or 8 pointer that was 4-1/2 to 5-1/2 than a 2-1/2 or 3-1/2 that had a little bigger rack. Sounds crazy, but i could give a crap about Boone and Crockett. Its all about the experience, and if i kill a 5plus old buck i have felt like I've done something. I don't know how to age jawbones or on the hoof, but I'm pretty sure i have never killed one over 3-1/2, or one that scored higher than 120-125. I don't kill many, but most of the bucks i have killed have probably been 2-1/2 year old 90-100" eight pointers. That is because it "excited" me when i saw it.


And there's nothing wrong with starting your management practices this way. Using any system in an attempt to reduce the harvest of young bucks is better than shooting every buck with antlers.

The real problems occur only when a high percentage of hunters in a given area select bucks for harvest only using antler size. This WILL, over time, reduce the antler size of older bucks and make the few larger-antlered mature bucks very, very difficult to kill.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3246992 - 05/15/13 09:10 AM Re: Hey BSK [Re: BSK]
woodsman87
8 Point


Registered: 09/27/12
Posts: 1274
Loc: south TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: woodsman87

I agree with this. But i am also not in the know how on aging them on the hoof. I look at the sticky thread at the top, but it's still hard, especially when you never see deer on camera or in person that fit the 3-1/2 year old qualities.
The reason why i do antler restrictions is because i want to shoot a nice buck antler size that makes me happy, or nervous while shooting him. I would much rather kill a big 6 or 8 pointer that was 4-1/2 to 5-1/2 than a 2-1/2 or 3-1/2 that had a little bigger rack. Sounds crazy, but i could give a crap about Boone and Crockett. Its all about the experience, and if i kill a 5plus old buck i have felt like I've done something. I don't know how to age jawbones or on the hoof, but I'm pretty sure i have never killed one over 3-1/2, or one that scored higher than 120-125. I don't kill many, but most of the bucks i have killed have probably been 2-1/2 year old 90-100" eight pointers. That is because it "excited" me when i saw it.


And there's nothing wrong with starting your management practices this way. Using any system in an attempt to reduce the harvest of young bucks is better than shooting every buck with antlers.

The real problems occur only when a high percentage of hunters in a given area select bucks for harvest only using antler size. This WILL, over time, reduce the antler size of older bucks and make the few larger-antlered mature bucks very, very difficult to kill.


I know that you are right and it makes perfect sense.
Killing the best genetic bucks, the ones that have nice little 6 or 8 point basket racks and 1-1/2 to 2-1/2 years old, allows the scrubby spikes to grow old, and according to some people never making much.

I have no idea how people tell a deer from year to year unless its rack looks the same. Like a young spike with straight 7 in spikes, then next year people say that its a 2-1/2 year old basket 6 pointer. How do they know its the same deer unless it has a white patch on it somewhere?

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#3247012 - 05/15/13 09:24 AM Re: Hey BSK [Re: woodsman87]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 64856
Loc: Nashville, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: woodsman87
I have no idea how people tell a deer from year to year unless its rack looks the same. Like a young spike with straight 7 in spikes, then next year people say that its a 2-1/2 year old basket 6 pointer. How do they know its the same deer unless it has a white patch on it somewhere?


From yearling to 2 1/2, I usually cannot track an individual buck, unless he has some unique body marking. Antler shape often changes dramatically from the yearling antlers to 2 1/2. But from 2 1/2 onwards, I track individual bucks by their antler configuration. The only problem with this method is that no one, to date, has conducted a study of bucks to determine what percent of bucks have antlers over their lifetime that are identifiable as grown by the same buck. Perhaps it is a high percentage and perhaps it is a low percentage. No one has established any guidelines around this parameter. Personally, I think it is a high percentage, but that is just an educated guess.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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