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#3241318 - 05/07/13 01:05 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: PalsPal]
beechnut
12 Point


Registered: 09/20/02
Posts: 5005
Loc: DRUMMONDS TN 38023

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 Originally Posted By: PalsPal
 Originally Posted By: beechnut




I don't get it Jeff!


You'd have to watch the Dukes of Hazzard the Movie.....Boss Hog was going to Strip mine hazard and this guy with the armadillo helment was telling everyone about it.
_________________________
A friend is one who has the same enemies as you have.
Abraham Lincoln

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#3241322 - 05/07/13 01:08 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: Crappie Luck]
BlountArrow
10 Point


Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 2673
Loc: SouthEast Tenn

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 Originally Posted By: scn
 Originally Posted By: Diehard Hunter
I would truly hate to see this happen. However, I understand the reasoning behind it. Everyone gripes about how much the licenses cost, so the general public obviously won't go for an increase in license cost. I have mentioned a habitat stamp on here a couple of times, and very few people even gave it a second look, less than a handful stated they would support it. Everyone complains there are not enough officers and not enough land.

So, my question to everyone is. How would YOU increase revenue for the TWRA? "Not that way" is not a valid answer.

There was a time in American history when sportsmen would stand up and put their money where their mouth is to protect what we have. Now they sit back and whine about having to spend money.

BTW, many of you are of the drill here, drill now mindset, and have blasted Obama for his energy policy. You do not have the right to change your tune now that it is going to directly affect you. You either want more domestic energy production or you don't. If you do, this is a way to benefit TWRA while meeting your goal. If you don't, then you must be in agreement with Obama's energy policy.

Blast away boys and girls, you can't have it both ways.

BTW, drilling and mining have been going on for decades on North Cumberland WMA and on the properties surrounding Catoosa.


Very well stated, Robert.


How would you two suggest the TWRA cut costs? There has to be areas that are obviously less fruitful where money would be better spent elsewhere or not spent at all. Any company, agency, big or small, has areas of “waste”. Where are those areas with the TWRA?
_________________________
"The world is so dreadfully managed, one hardly knows to whom to complain."
-Ronald Firbank

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#3241329 - 05/07/13 01:17 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: BlountArrow]
BlountArrow
10 Point


Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 2673
Loc: SouthEast Tenn

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How would I increase revenue for TWRA? Well, personally, I wouldn't mind paying a small charge/fee for the privilege of using the online check-in process and/or smartphone ap. I think it is convenient, saves me gas money and removes the hassle of getting to a check-in station before they close, etc, etc. There is a cost associated with this for the TWRA both in the initial setup and maintenance of the system. I don't mind helping out there. That is just the first thing that came to mind.
_________________________
"The world is so dreadfully managed, one hardly knows to whom to complain."
-Ronald Firbank

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#3241334 - 05/07/13 01:26 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: Crappie Luck]
Bone Collector
14 Point


Registered: 09/09/09
Posts: 9194
Loc: Murfreesboro, TN

Offline
I know how to generate revenue for the TWRA. IT came up throughout the posts.

Charge Camper, hikers, bird watchers, etc a fee like hunters get charged to use WMAs.. We pay $17 extra to small game hunt. we pay $21 extra to big game hunt. If you do both that is $38 to use the WMA. Make a fee for NON HUNTING activities. Maybe it could be different for certain activities and maybe have one that is for all other activities like hiking, camping, bird watching etc.
_________________________
Semper Fidelis!

“There are hunters and there are victims. By your discipline, cunning, obedience and alertness, you will decide if you are a hunter or a victim.”
General James Mattis

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#3241335 - 05/07/13 01:26 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: beechnut]
Tennessee Todd Moderator
Communicates like Rad
16 Point


Registered: 03/12/99
Posts: 12694
Loc: TuTu City, Tn

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 Originally Posted By: beechnut





I don't really have anything to add, but here's a picture of a guy with a pancake on his head.

\:D
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This Country might survive Obama but what we won't survive is the mindset that elected him.

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#3241337 - 05/07/13 01:30 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: BlountArrow]
TNGunsmoke
8 Point


Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 1391
Loc: Jackson,TN

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Depending on the methods used to mine/drill, it would probably be almost unnoticeable.

A usage fee for bird watchers/day use areas would not bother me too much. I've paid them in MS for fishing/wildlife viewing before. Dollar or two per vehicle adds up quick over time.
_________________________
You can't fix stupid.....

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#3241345 - 05/07/13 01:41 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: Chris Tripp]
Buzzard Breath
8 Point


Registered: 07/31/06
Posts: 1652
Loc: East

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 Originally Posted By: Chris Tripp
 Originally Posted By: Buzzard Breath
Quoted from TWRA forum

 Originally Posted By: Chris Tripp
Underground coal mining is not going to affect much on Catoosa's surface, in fact you would likely never know they were there. I worked for years in Gordonsville/Elmwood/Cumberland mine, all under the Caney Fork River and Cumberland River and have never seen an impact on fishing or wildlife in Smith County.


I would like hear more from TWRA about the environmental effects, the amount of additional roads, as well as how much acreage we stand to lose by these practices before I can develop a true opinion. I originally posted as a gut reaction.


I am 99% sure they are going to have their access shaft (adit) in the current open pit. There will have to be ventshafts, but they generally only use about a 50'x 50' area for the egress of the shaft. The coal seam there is only around 36-40 inches, but if I can recall correctly they do an over/under cast ventilation in their existing underground mines in Cumberland co., in that case there will be fewer ventshafts overall if they do it.


Basically, it sounds like there will be less environmental damage than what the ATV's cause.

Thanks for your educated input. It helps to hear this from folks who have a first hand knowledge of the procedures.

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#3241361 - 05/07/13 02:09 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: RUGER]
BMan
16 Point


Registered: 02/06/06
Posts: 10600
Loc: Middle TN

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 Originally Posted By: RUGER
I am more upset about the MANY people who use WMA's and places like LBL for their use for fishing, hiking, bird watching, bike riding, etc. that don't have to pay ANYTHING to use it.

Not sure if Catoosa is the same way or not but I, for one, am tired of paying fees to use such lands and they do so for free.

Exactly right. Let the other users share the cost, not jut the hunters.
_________________________
Rules are for people who lose fights.

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#3241365 - 05/07/13 02:13 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: BMan]
Unicam Administrator
Grumpaw
16 Point


Registered: 12/13/00
Posts: 19421
Loc: Dallas, GA. & Cookeville, TN

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Hey remove the fishermen and women from that list!! We buy a license!
_________________________
"Gun Free Zones are for VICTIMS!"

John 15:13

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#3241383 - 05/07/13 02:48 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: BlountArrow]
Diehard Hunter
CRAMP
12 Point


Registered: 08/01/08
Posts: 6878
Loc: East Tennessee

Offline
 Originally Posted By: BlountArrow
 Originally Posted By: Diehard Hunter
I would truly hate to see this happen. However, I understand the reasoning behind it. Everyone gripes about how much the licenses cost, so the general public obviously won't go for an increase in license cost. I have mentioned a habitat stamp on here a couple of times, and very few people even gave it a second look, less than a handful stated they would support it. Everyone complains there are not enough officers and not enough land.

So, my question to everyone is. How would YOU increase revenue for the TWRA? "Not that way" is not a valid answer.

There was a time in American history when sportsmen would stand up and put their money where their mouth is to protect what we have. Now they sit back and whine about having to spend money.

BTW, many of you are of the drill here, drill now mindset, and have blasted Obama for his energy policy. You do not have the right to change your tune now that it is going to directly affect you. You either want more domestic energy production or you don't. If you do, this is a way to benefit TWRA while meeting your goal. If you don't, then you must be in agreement with Obama's energy policy.

Blast away boys and girls, you can't have it both ways.

BTW, drilling and mining have been going on for decades on North Cumberland WMA and on the properties surrounding Catoosa.


I think that is a valid question and I'll ponder it, but let me throw it back at you. How would you suggest the TWRA cut costs? There has to be areas that are obviously less fruitful where money would be better spent elsewhere or not spent at all. Any company, agency, big or small, has areas where they essentially "waste" money for one reason or the other. Where are those areas with the TWRA?


That is a fair question, and after reading the other posts I think some enlightenment is needed. What many people do not understand is that the TWRA does not receive any funding from the states general fund. That is good and bad. The good is....they don't have to answer to the politicians, and the governor cannot cut their budget when he gets mad at them. The bad is the only real source of funding is from the sale of licenses and the PR/DJ taxes collected and doled out by the Feds.

Now, where to cut? The TWRA is already doing more with less in the law enforcement end, with no more than 2, sometimes, rarely, 3 officers in a county, I doubt we could get away with fewer. How about WMAs? Many area managers already cover more than one WMA. They are responsible for all the management of that area from setting quotas and limits to planting crop fields, mowing, and law enforcement. In reality, they could stand to add to that pool as well. How many people do you think it would take to adequately manage a WMA the size of catoosa or North Cumberland? The answer is more than they have there now. Ok, lets move up the chain then. What about regional offices? If you have ever been to one, you will quickly learn that the few people there have far more work than they can get done as it is. Considering each office covers 20+ counties, I don't think they can cut there either. So, what about special programs? Do away with the elk program someone says? CORA and Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation funded the vast majority of the elk reintroduction. This was a grass roots effort started by and funded by sportsmen in that area. Does it cost the TWRA some money? Yes. However, it has led to the addition of far more public land through cooperative agreements between mining companies, timber companies, the nature conservancy, CORA, and some others. In the long run we as Tennessee sportsmen have come out well ahead. Someone mentioned the cranes at hiwassee. Those birds are considered an experimental population, and much of the funding for that comes from the USFWS under the endangered species act. The local community has rallied around the cranes as well and helps to fund some of the projects associated with them. In reality, without the cranes, hiwassee would be more of a drain. In reality, these special projects allow the TWRA to make connections with other organizations that benefits all of us in the long run. To do away with them would harm more than it would help.

Now, if I was just looking at the bottom line, I could easily cut a bunch of money out of the budget. The simplest way would be to cut man hours. That is what all businesses do. Since TWRA employees cannot draw overtime, it would have to be cut as straight time. The easiest way would be to lock the gates on the WMAs. Put those employees in the field for enforcement, or cut them out all together. The WMA system is a huge drain on the agency that is mandated with protecting our wildlife resources. Of course I say that tongue in cheek to show that TWRA cannot be managed like a business. There are not measurable returns on investment.

There are a lot of federal laws that cause a drain on the agency as well. Take endangered species management for example. There is no measurable return, but a huge investment must be made to manage for any and all endangered species on state property. They have no choice.

In all, TWRA has already made huge cuts. They had to do away with the internship program a few years ago because they couldn't afford to pay the interns. They share equipment across the state to save money, and they are understaffed. There comes a time when you cannot cut any more without cutting service and opportunity. I think they are there.

I would still love to see the following to raise money.

1) a habitat stamp
2) a user/ access fee for anyone without a hunting license.
3) a tax on all wildlife food purchased in tennessee.
_________________________
The recreational value of a game animal is inverse to the artificiality of its origin and the intensiveness of the management system that produced it. Aldo Leopold


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