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#3241225 - 05/07/13 11:07 AM TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land
fredfred
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Registered: 06/24/12
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Boys and girls this ain't good

LINK


by Ben Hall
Investigative Reporter

NASHVILLE, Tenn. -- It's state land -- bought with taxpayer money.

NewsChannel 5 Investigates has learned at least one cash-strapped agency is considering leasing mineral rights on protected land that was set aside for the public to enjoy.

The Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency is currently negotiating with a coal company to allow coal mining on a wildlife area, as well as an oil company to allow drilling on a wetland.

Until now, state officials have repeatedly rejected energy companies eager for access to state land on which the state owns the mineral rights.

State officials expressed concern about "diminishing the value" of the land and "bad publicity," even though a rough state estimate said Tennessee's mineral rights are worth $500 million.

But Steve Patrick, assistant director with the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency, said the agency is now considering leases it never has before.

NewsChannel 5 Investigates asked, "Is this about the money for TWRA?"

"Well yeah," Patrick responded. "That's certainly what gets your attention. We are a self-funded agency."

NewsChannel 5 Investigates asked Patrick, "This is controversial even within your department?"

"It is," he admitted.

Bison Exploration Drilling wants access to 200 acres of wetlands in East Tennessee. It has claimed that TWRA would get more than $5.6 million in royalties.

TWRA's real estate specialist wrote to Bison Drilling in January stating, "This is groundbreaking, be a good chance to get in while the state is figuring out what they are doing."

Anne Davis with the Southern Environmental Law Center worries state agencies are too eager to start selling mineral rights.

"When we start drilling on public land we ought to think about where this is going," Davis said.

She is worried the state has changed its stance on mining on public land.

"I'm really concerned that it's a change in policy that seems to have happened behind closed doors without the public being aware of it," Davis said.

The final decision about whether to allow mining on state land is up to the State Building Commission.

Under past governors, it has refused to approve leasing state minerals.

NewsChannel 5 Investigates asked Patrick, "What is the commission saying now?"

Patrick responded, "Well obviously they are saying yes."

"This is a change in policy?" we asked.

"As far as I know, yes," Patrick said.

The State Building Commission just allowed the University of Tennessee to move forward with plans to drill for natural gas on 8000 acres of UT land.

Emails show that, on the day the board discussed the University of Tennessee, Bison Drilling flew someone in from Texas to attend the meeting.

E-mails show he was eager to meet with TWRA officials face to face after months of communicating by e-mail.

TWRA is also negotiating with Crossville Coal to allow the company to mine under the Catoosa Wildlife Management Area.

The 80,000 acres were set aside for hunting, but Crossville Coal wants to expand its idle mine and dig under Catoosa.

TWRA has already granted the company a right of entry to see how much coal is on the wildlife area.

The proposed contract would be worth millions of dollars, but underground coal mining raises concerns about damage to wildlife and groundwater.

For a cash-strapped state, the lure of money may be hard to ignore.

Email: bhall@newschannel5.com

Review emails, documents about state mineral rights

Tell Us What You Think!
On Facebook:
NewsChannel 5 Investigates
NC5_BenHall

On Twitter:
@NC5Investigates
@NC5_BenHall


Back to NewsChannel 5 Investigates
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#3241253 - 05/07/13 11:42 AM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: fredfred]
beechnut
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#3241258 - 05/07/13 11:46 AM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: beechnut]
Football Hunter
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Registered: 10/22/07
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Loc: Wilson Co/Perry Co

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 Originally Posted By: beechnut


Anymore pics of the girl on the right????????
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#3241269 - 05/07/13 11:55 AM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: fredfred]
Buzzard Breath
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This should make the ATV riders happy. More roads would have to be cut and they would get to ride in more places.

Doesn't the Obed River (A Wild & Scenic River) border Catoosa. I would hate to see this polluted due to coal mining. I understand that TWRA needs money, but there's got to be a better way to get it than whore out Catoosa.


Edited by Buzzard Breath (05/07/13 12:01 PM)

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#3241275 - 05/07/13 12:04 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: Football Hunter]
BlountArrow
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Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 2775
Loc: SouthEast Tenn

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 Originally Posted By: Football Hunter
 Originally Posted By: beechnut


Anymore pics of the girl on the right????????


Amen brother.
_________________________
"The world is so dreadfully managed, one hardly knows to whom to complain."
-Ronald Firbank

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#3241276 - 05/07/13 12:05 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: Buzzard Breath]
sgtwebb1
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The Obed goes right thru the WMA.
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#3241277 - 05/07/13 12:06 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: BlountArrow]
BlountArrow
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Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 2775
Loc: SouthEast Tenn

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I didn't know TWRA was hurting for money. Maybe I'm just out of touch.
_________________________
"The world is so dreadfully managed, one hardly knows to whom to complain."
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#3241284 - 05/07/13 12:16 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: sgtwebb1]
Diehard Hunter
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I would truly hate to see this happen. However, I understand the reasoning behind it. Everyone gripes about how much the licenses cost, so the general public obviously won't go for an increase in license cost. I have mentioned a habitat stamp on here a couple of times, and very few people even gave it a second look, less than a handful stated they would support it. Everyone complains there are not enough officers and not enough land.

So, my question to everyone is. How would YOU increase revenue for the TWRA? "Not that way" is not a valid answer.

There was a time in American history when sportsmen would stand up and put their money where their mouth is to protect what we have. Now they sit back and whine about having to spend money.

BTW, many of you are of the drill here, drill now mindset, and have blasted Obama for his energy policy. You do not have the right to change your tune now that it is going to directly affect you. You either want more domestic energy production or you don't. If you do, this is a way to benefit TWRA while meeting your goal. If you don't, then you must be in agreement with Obama's energy policy.

Blast away boys and girls, you can't have it both ways.

BTW, drilling and mining have been going on for decades on North Cumberland WMA and on the properties surrounding Catoosa.
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#3241287 - 05/07/13 12:21 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: Diehard Hunter]
BlountArrow
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Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 2775
Loc: SouthEast Tenn

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 Originally Posted By: Diehard Hunter
I would truly hate to see this happen. However, I understand the reasoning behind it. Everyone gripes about how much the licenses cost, so the general public obviously won't go for an increase in license cost. I have mentioned a habitat stamp on here a couple of times, and very few people even gave it a second look, less than a handful stated they would support it. Everyone complains there are not enough officers and not enough land.

So, my question to everyone is. How would YOU increase revenue for the TWRA? "Not that way" is not a valid answer.

There was a time in American history when sportsmen would stand up and put their money where their mouth is to protect what we have. Now they sit back and whine about having to spend money.

BTW, many of you are of the drill here, drill now mindset, and have blasted Obama for his energy policy. You do not have the right to change your tune now that it is going to directly affect you. You either want more domestic energy production or you don't. If you do, this is a way to benefit TWRA while meeting your goal. If you don't, then you must be in agreement with Obama's energy policy.

Blast away boys and girls, you can't have it both ways.

BTW, drilling and mining have been going on for decades on North Cumberland WMA and on the properties surrounding Catoosa.


I think that is a valid question and I'll ponder it, but let me throw it back at you. How would you suggest the TWRA cut costs? There has to be areas that are obviously less fruitful where money would be better spent elsewhere or not spent at all. Any company, agency, big or small, has areas where they essentially "waste" money for one reason or the other. Where are those areas with the TWRA?
_________________________
"The world is so dreadfully managed, one hardly knows to whom to complain."
-Ronald Firbank

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#3241289 - 05/07/13 12:23 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: Diehard Hunter]
Crappie Luck Moderator
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Loc: Smith Co.

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How will this effect the hunter's use of the land?

If the effect on public access is minimal, but the financial rewards are great, I say "Go for it". However, if we are going to lose access to large portions of these properties, then they need to replace those lost acres with the money they receive and honor the "No net loss" land agreement.

\:\)
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#3241290 - 05/07/13 12:27 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: Diehard Hunter]
scn
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Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 10363
Loc: Brentwood, TN US

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 Originally Posted By: Diehard Hunter
I would truly hate to see this happen. However, I understand the reasoning behind it. Everyone gripes about how much the licenses cost, so the general public obviously won't go for an increase in license cost. I have mentioned a habitat stamp on here a couple of times, and very few people even gave it a second look, less than a handful stated they would support it. Everyone complains there are not enough officers and not enough land.

So, my question to everyone is. How would YOU increase revenue for the TWRA? "Not that way" is not a valid answer.

There was a time in American history when sportsmen would stand up and put their money where their mouth is to protect what we have. Now they sit back and whine about having to spend money.

BTW, many of you are of the drill here, drill now mindset, and have blasted Obama for his energy policy. You do not have the right to change your tune now that it is going to directly affect you. You either want more domestic energy production or you don't. If you do, this is a way to benefit TWRA while meeting your goal. If you don't, then you must be in agreement with Obama's energy policy.

Blast away boys and girls, you can't have it both ways.

BTW, drilling and mining have been going on for decades on North Cumberland WMA and on the properties surrounding Catoosa.


Very well stated, Robert.
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#3241291 - 05/07/13 12:29 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: BlountArrow]
RUGER Administrator
Bambi Killa
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It is a long way from me and I have never and probably won't ever hunt there, but I don't see it as a huge deal.

I am more upset about the MANY people who use WMA's and places like LBL for their use for fishing, hiking, bird watching, bike riding, etc. that don't have to pay ANYTHING to use it.

Not sure if Catoosa is the same way or not but I, for one, am tired of paying fees to use such lands and they do so for free.

Drill, make money and keep TWRA going, sounds fine to me.

I have two questions or concerns though.
My number one would be, how can we make sure TWRA gets the money and not some crooked arse politician or commisioner?

I guess number two would be, how will the environment (animals, birds, land and water be effected by the mining? Also, how many acres would be "lost" to the sportsmen that use the area?
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#3241295 - 05/07/13 12:35 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: scn]
Buzzard Breath
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How much is the President's Island lease? I truly don't know how much money they spend on this, but if it's market rates, that's way too much for just a few individuals to get to hunt each year.

How much does TWRA spend on the elk program? Aren't these Rocky Mountain Elk when the real Eastern Elk are extinct?

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#3241298 - 05/07/13 12:38 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: RUGER]
BlountArrow
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Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 2775
Loc: SouthEast Tenn

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 Originally Posted By: RUGER
...I am more upset about the MANY people who use WMA's and places like LBL for their use for fishing, hiking, bird watching, bike riding, etc. that don't have to pay ANYTHING to use it.


I agree. And, I'll preface what I'm about to say by saying I've never been there, but I've been told of an observation area on the scale of a large deck/covered gazeebo in Rhea county that was built for people to watch the beautiful, majestic sandhill cranes. Now, I don't even know if that was TWRA funded, but if it was I personally don't see the value add there. Is there some reason this state is still protecting those food hogs (ah, never mind)?
_________________________
"The world is so dreadfully managed, one hardly knows to whom to complain."
-Ronald Firbank

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#3241301 - 05/07/13 12:42 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: Crappie Luck]
Ahuntin1
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Registered: 12/10/09
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I do not understand how TWRA could be short on money. Mississippi gets by with $32 sportsman license. If the state is not providing enough money above and beyond the revenue from license fees to support the programs, TWRA has to make hard decisions. I know TWRA does a great job and provides many services, but you can only provide the level of service that you can afford. As far as the mining or drilling of TWRA/State land for financial revenue, I can only hope that the folks in charge are smart enough to make the right decision. If the disruption of services at certain areas can make a stronger impact statewide, by all means proceed. I have long thought that the money from my expensive license has found its way into some programs that I do not care about anyways. Just sell me a license and let me go hunt.
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#3241305 - 05/07/13 12:47 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: Ahuntin1]
Buzzard Breath
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Quoted from TWRA forum

 Originally Posted By: Chris Tripp
Underground coal mining is not going to affect much on Catoosa's surface, in fact you would likely never know they were there. I worked for years in Gordonsville/Elmwood/Cumberland mine, all under the Caney Fork River and Cumberland River and have never seen an impact on fishing or wildlife in Smith County.


I would like hear more from TWRA about the environmental effects, the amount of additional roads, as well as how much acreage we stand to lose by these practices before I can develop a true opinion. I originally posted as a gut reaction.


Edited by Buzzard Breath (05/07/13 12:48 PM)

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#3241306 - 05/07/13 12:49 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: BlountArrow]
PalsPal
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I would be interested in knowing how much money TWRA has made from all of the timber harvested from Catoosa, and if that money stayed within the agency and for what it was used.

If it were used for general operating expenses, then additional revenue is obviously needed, as a great deal of the WMA has already been clearcut.

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#3241308 - 05/07/13 12:51 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: beechnut]
PalsPal
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 Originally Posted By: beechnut




I don't get it Jeff!

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#3241311 - 05/07/13 12:57 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: Ahuntin1]
Crappie Luck Moderator
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Registered: 01/29/03
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Loc: Smith Co.

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 Originally Posted By: Ahuntin1
I do not understand how TWRA could be short on money. Mississippi gets by with $32 sportsman license. If the state is not providing enough money above and beyond the revenue from license fees to support the programs, TWRA has to make hard decisions.


The TWRA does not receive money from the state funds. They are one of the few wildlife agencies that are 100% self-suffient. That is why our license fees are higher.
_________________________
"To find out who your real rulers are, simply look to those whom you CANNOT criticize..."
--Voltaire

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#3241317 - 05/07/13 01:05 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: Buzzard Breath]
Chris Tripp
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Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 3762
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 Originally Posted By: Buzzard Breath
Quoted from TWRA forum

 Originally Posted By: Chris Tripp
Underground coal mining is not going to affect much on Catoosa's surface, in fact you would likely never know they were there. I worked for years in Gordonsville/Elmwood/Cumberland mine, all under the Caney Fork River and Cumberland River and have never seen an impact on fishing or wildlife in Smith County.


I would like hear more from TWRA about the environmental effects, the amount of additional roads, as well as how much acreage we stand to lose by these practices before I can develop a true opinion. I originally posted as a gut reaction.


I am 99% sure they are going to have their access shaft (adit) in the current open pit. There will have to be ventshafts, but they generally only use about a 50'x 50' area for the egress of the shaft. The coal seam there is only around 36-40 inches, but if I can recall correctly they do an over/under cast ventilation in their existing underground mines in Cumberland co., in that case there will be fewer ventshafts overall if they do it.

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#3241318 - 05/07/13 01:05 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: PalsPal]
beechnut
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Registered: 09/20/02
Posts: 5005
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 Originally Posted By: PalsPal
 Originally Posted By: beechnut




I don't get it Jeff!


You'd have to watch the Dukes of Hazzard the Movie.....Boss Hog was going to Strip mine hazard and this guy with the armadillo helment was telling everyone about it.
_________________________
A friend is one who has the same enemies as you have.
Abraham Lincoln

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#3241322 - 05/07/13 01:08 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: Crappie Luck]
BlountArrow
10 Point


Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 2775
Loc: SouthEast Tenn

content Online
 Originally Posted By: scn
 Originally Posted By: Diehard Hunter
I would truly hate to see this happen. However, I understand the reasoning behind it. Everyone gripes about how much the licenses cost, so the general public obviously won't go for an increase in license cost. I have mentioned a habitat stamp on here a couple of times, and very few people even gave it a second look, less than a handful stated they would support it. Everyone complains there are not enough officers and not enough land.

So, my question to everyone is. How would YOU increase revenue for the TWRA? "Not that way" is not a valid answer.

There was a time in American history when sportsmen would stand up and put their money where their mouth is to protect what we have. Now they sit back and whine about having to spend money.

BTW, many of you are of the drill here, drill now mindset, and have blasted Obama for his energy policy. You do not have the right to change your tune now that it is going to directly affect you. You either want more domestic energy production or you don't. If you do, this is a way to benefit TWRA while meeting your goal. If you don't, then you must be in agreement with Obama's energy policy.

Blast away boys and girls, you can't have it both ways.

BTW, drilling and mining have been going on for decades on North Cumberland WMA and on the properties surrounding Catoosa.


Very well stated, Robert.


How would you two suggest the TWRA cut costs? There has to be areas that are obviously less fruitful where money would be better spent elsewhere or not spent at all. Any company, agency, big or small, has areas of “waste”. Where are those areas with the TWRA?
_________________________
"The world is so dreadfully managed, one hardly knows to whom to complain."
-Ronald Firbank

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#3241329 - 05/07/13 01:17 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: BlountArrow]
BlountArrow
10 Point


Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 2775
Loc: SouthEast Tenn

content Online
How would I increase revenue for TWRA? Well, personally, I wouldn't mind paying a small charge/fee for the privilege of using the online check-in process and/or smartphone ap. I think it is convenient, saves me gas money and removes the hassle of getting to a check-in station before they close, etc, etc. There is a cost associated with this for the TWRA both in the initial setup and maintenance of the system. I don't mind helping out there. That is just the first thing that came to mind.
_________________________
"The world is so dreadfully managed, one hardly knows to whom to complain."
-Ronald Firbank

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#3241334 - 05/07/13 01:26 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: Crappie Luck]
Bone Collector
14 Point


Registered: 09/09/09
Posts: 9547
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I know how to generate revenue for the TWRA. IT came up throughout the posts.

Charge Camper, hikers, bird watchers, etc a fee like hunters get charged to use WMAs.. We pay $17 extra to small game hunt. we pay $21 extra to big game hunt. If you do both that is $38 to use the WMA. Make a fee for NON HUNTING activities. Maybe it could be different for certain activities and maybe have one that is for all other activities like hiking, camping, bird watching etc.
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#3241335 - 05/07/13 01:26 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: beechnut]
Tennessee Todd Moderator
Communicates like Rad
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Registered: 03/12/99
Posts: 12707
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 Originally Posted By: beechnut





I don't really have anything to add, but here's a picture of a guy with a pancake on his head.

\:D
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#3241337 - 05/07/13 01:30 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: BlountArrow]
TNGunsmoke
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Registered: 09/07/11
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Loc: Jackson,TN

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Depending on the methods used to mine/drill, it would probably be almost unnoticeable.

A usage fee for bird watchers/day use areas would not bother me too much. I've paid them in MS for fishing/wildlife viewing before. Dollar or two per vehicle adds up quick over time.
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#3241345 - 05/07/13 01:41 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: Chris Tripp]
Buzzard Breath
8 Point


Registered: 07/31/06
Posts: 1672
Loc: East

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 Originally Posted By: Chris Tripp
 Originally Posted By: Buzzard Breath
Quoted from TWRA forum

 Originally Posted By: Chris Tripp
Underground coal mining is not going to affect much on Catoosa's surface, in fact you would likely never know they were there. I worked for years in Gordonsville/Elmwood/Cumberland mine, all under the Caney Fork River and Cumberland River and have never seen an impact on fishing or wildlife in Smith County.


I would like hear more from TWRA about the environmental effects, the amount of additional roads, as well as how much acreage we stand to lose by these practices before I can develop a true opinion. I originally posted as a gut reaction.


I am 99% sure they are going to have their access shaft (adit) in the current open pit. There will have to be ventshafts, but they generally only use about a 50'x 50' area for the egress of the shaft. The coal seam there is only around 36-40 inches, but if I can recall correctly they do an over/under cast ventilation in their existing underground mines in Cumberland co., in that case there will be fewer ventshafts overall if they do it.


Basically, it sounds like there will be less environmental damage than what the ATV's cause.

Thanks for your educated input. It helps to hear this from folks who have a first hand knowledge of the procedures.

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#3241361 - 05/07/13 02:09 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: RUGER]
BMan
16 Point


Registered: 02/06/06
Posts: 10649
Loc: Middle TN

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 Originally Posted By: RUGER
I am more upset about the MANY people who use WMA's and places like LBL for their use for fishing, hiking, bird watching, bike riding, etc. that don't have to pay ANYTHING to use it.

Not sure if Catoosa is the same way or not but I, for one, am tired of paying fees to use such lands and they do so for free.

Exactly right. Let the other users share the cost, not jut the hunters.
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#3241365 - 05/07/13 02:13 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: BMan]
Unicam Administrator
Grumpaw
16 Point


Registered: 12/13/00
Posts: 19425
Loc: Dallas, GA. & Cookeville, TN

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Hey remove the fishermen and women from that list!! We buy a license!
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John 15:13

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#3241383 - 05/07/13 02:48 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: BlountArrow]
Diehard Hunter
CRAMP
12 Point


Registered: 08/01/08
Posts: 6961
Loc: East Tennessee

Offline
 Originally Posted By: BlountArrow
 Originally Posted By: Diehard Hunter
I would truly hate to see this happen. However, I understand the reasoning behind it. Everyone gripes about how much the licenses cost, so the general public obviously won't go for an increase in license cost. I have mentioned a habitat stamp on here a couple of times, and very few people even gave it a second look, less than a handful stated they would support it. Everyone complains there are not enough officers and not enough land.

So, my question to everyone is. How would YOU increase revenue for the TWRA? "Not that way" is not a valid answer.

There was a time in American history when sportsmen would stand up and put their money where their mouth is to protect what we have. Now they sit back and whine about having to spend money.

BTW, many of you are of the drill here, drill now mindset, and have blasted Obama for his energy policy. You do not have the right to change your tune now that it is going to directly affect you. You either want more domestic energy production or you don't. If you do, this is a way to benefit TWRA while meeting your goal. If you don't, then you must be in agreement with Obama's energy policy.

Blast away boys and girls, you can't have it both ways.

BTW, drilling and mining have been going on for decades on North Cumberland WMA and on the properties surrounding Catoosa.


I think that is a valid question and I'll ponder it, but let me throw it back at you. How would you suggest the TWRA cut costs? There has to be areas that are obviously less fruitful where money would be better spent elsewhere or not spent at all. Any company, agency, big or small, has areas where they essentially "waste" money for one reason or the other. Where are those areas with the TWRA?


That is a fair question, and after reading the other posts I think some enlightenment is needed. What many people do not understand is that the TWRA does not receive any funding from the states general fund. That is good and bad. The good is....they don't have to answer to the politicians, and the governor cannot cut their budget when he gets mad at them. The bad is the only real source of funding is from the sale of licenses and the PR/DJ taxes collected and doled out by the Feds.

Now, where to cut? The TWRA is already doing more with less in the law enforcement end, with no more than 2, sometimes, rarely, 3 officers in a county, I doubt we could get away with fewer. How about WMAs? Many area managers already cover more than one WMA. They are responsible for all the management of that area from setting quotas and limits to planting crop fields, mowing, and law enforcement. In reality, they could stand to add to that pool as well. How many people do you think it would take to adequately manage a WMA the size of catoosa or North Cumberland? The answer is more than they have there now. Ok, lets move up the chain then. What about regional offices? If you have ever been to one, you will quickly learn that the few people there have far more work than they can get done as it is. Considering each office covers 20+ counties, I don't think they can cut there either. So, what about special programs? Do away with the elk program someone says? CORA and Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation funded the vast majority of the elk reintroduction. This was a grass roots effort started by and funded by sportsmen in that area. Does it cost the TWRA some money? Yes. However, it has led to the addition of far more public land through cooperative agreements between mining companies, timber companies, the nature conservancy, CORA, and some others. In the long run we as Tennessee sportsmen have come out well ahead. Someone mentioned the cranes at hiwassee. Those birds are considered an experimental population, and much of the funding for that comes from the USFWS under the endangered species act. The local community has rallied around the cranes as well and helps to fund some of the projects associated with them. In reality, without the cranes, hiwassee would be more of a drain. In reality, these special projects allow the TWRA to make connections with other organizations that benefits all of us in the long run. To do away with them would harm more than it would help.

Now, if I was just looking at the bottom line, I could easily cut a bunch of money out of the budget. The simplest way would be to cut man hours. That is what all businesses do. Since TWRA employees cannot draw overtime, it would have to be cut as straight time. The easiest way would be to lock the gates on the WMAs. Put those employees in the field for enforcement, or cut them out all together. The WMA system is a huge drain on the agency that is mandated with protecting our wildlife resources. Of course I say that tongue in cheek to show that TWRA cannot be managed like a business. There are not measurable returns on investment.

There are a lot of federal laws that cause a drain on the agency as well. Take endangered species management for example. There is no measurable return, but a huge investment must be made to manage for any and all endangered species on state property. They have no choice.

In all, TWRA has already made huge cuts. They had to do away with the internship program a few years ago because they couldn't afford to pay the interns. They share equipment across the state to save money, and they are understaffed. There comes a time when you cannot cut any more without cutting service and opportunity. I think they are there.

I would still love to see the following to raise money.

1) a habitat stamp
2) a user/ access fee for anyone without a hunting license.
3) a tax on all wildlife food purchased in tennessee.
_________________________
The recreational value of a game animal is inverse to the artificiality of its origin and the intensiveness of the management system that produced it. Aldo Leopold


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#3241384 - 05/07/13 02:52 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: BMan]
Diehard Hunter
CRAMP
12 Point


Registered: 08/01/08
Posts: 6961
Loc: East Tennessee

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 Originally Posted By: BMan
 Originally Posted By: RUGER
I am more upset about the MANY people who use WMA's and places like LBL for their use for fishing, hiking, bird watching, bike riding, etc. that don't have to pay ANYTHING to use it.

Not sure if Catoosa is the same way or not but I, for one, am tired of paying fees to use such lands and they do so for free.

Exactly right. Let the other users share the cost, not jut the hunters.


Sorry ruger....LBL is part of the US Forest service, and they are mandated by congress to be a multiple use agency. I am not sure if TWRA has to pay them or not, but I do know TWRA has to pay the USFS for Cherokee national forest to be a WMA. I would love to see those funds stay in the coffers for other uses.


Edited by Diehard Hunter (05/07/13 03:16 PM)
_________________________
The recreational value of a game animal is inverse to the artificiality of its origin and the intensiveness of the management system that produced it. Aldo Leopold


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#3241386 - 05/07/13 02:58 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: Diehard Hunter]
Wes Parrish
16 Point


Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 19448
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Diehard Hunter
. . . . . . TWRA has already made huge cuts. They had to do away with the internship program a few years ago because they couldn't afford to pay the interns. They share equipment across the state to save money, and they are understaffed. There comes a time when you cannot cut any more without cutting service and opportunity. I think they are there.

I agree.

 Originally Posted By: RUGER
Drill, make money and keep TWRA going, sounds fine to me.

Actually, of all the ideas being floated to raise money for TWRA's operation, this may be the best one yet, PROVIDED there is minimal impact to the hunting & fishing opportunities.

You see, most of those other good-sounding ideas will also have the unintended consequence of making TWRA suddenly "accountable" and more "accommodating" to those other "user" groups. Let's say we start charging for "wildlife viewing" on a hunting area. At that point, those who are only interested in "wildlife viewing" and paying for it, they will then have legitimate claim to have areas set aside where hunting is not allowed, so they can get what they're paying for. This could turn into a net loss for TWRA, financially, and for the hunters, in lost hunting land, along with sharing the WMA's with more non-hunter "user" groups.

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#3241387 - 05/07/13 02:58 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: Diehard Hunter]
Ahuntin1
4 Point


Registered: 12/10/09
Posts: 299
Loc: Collierville, TN

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How about raising out of state big game license fees? I don't know about all our border states, but Mississippi's cost about $400 for everything.
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#3241400 - 05/07/13 03:13 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: Unicam]
G5PRIME
4 Point


Registered: 08/18/11
Posts: 156
Loc: Paris Tn.

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 Originally Posted By: Unicam
Hey remove the fishermen and women from that list!! We buy a license!
Im not calling you out personally, but yes fisherman do by a fishing license, but they dont buy a wma permit to fish on a wma. ive thought this was wrong for a very long time? maybe just me? dunno

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#3241403 - 05/07/13 03:18 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: G5PRIME]
scn
16 Point


Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 10363
Loc: Brentwood, TN US

Offline
 Originally Posted By: G5PRIME
 Originally Posted By: Unicam
Hey remove the fishermen and women from that list!! We buy a license!
Im not calling you out personally, but yes fisherman do by a fishing license, but they dont buy a wma permit to fish on a wma. ive thought this was wrong for a very long time? maybe just me? dunno


You are not totally correct. Fishermen do buy a permit to fish some of the managed/stocked trout streams in ETN, and they do buy permits to fish on agency lakes.
_________________________
Life is too short to fish with a dead cricket.

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#3241408 - 05/07/13 03:21 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: Wes Parrish]
Crosshairy
10 Point


Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 2697
Loc: Bartlett, TN

content Online
 Originally Posted By: Wes Parrish
 Originally Posted By: Diehard Hunter
. . . . . . TWRA has already made huge cuts. They had to do away with the internship program a few years ago because they couldn't afford to pay the interns. They share equipment across the state to save money, and they are understaffed. There comes a time when you cannot cut any more without cutting service and opportunity. I think they are there.

I agree.

 Originally Posted By: RUGER
Drill, make money and keep TWRA going, sounds fine to me.

Actually, of all the ideas being floated to raise money for TWRA's operation, this may be the best one yet, PROVIDED there is minimal impact to the hunting & fishing opportunities.

You see, most of those other good-sounding ideas will also have the unintended consequence of making TWRA suddenly "accountable" and more "accommodating" to those other "user" groups. Let's say we start charging for "wildlife viewing" on a hunting area. At that point, those who are only interested in "wildlife viewing" and paying for it, they will then have legitimate claim to have areas set aside where hunting is not allowed, so they can get what they're paying for. This could turn into a net loss for TWRA, financially, and for the hunters, in lost hunting land, along with sharing the WMA's with more non-hunter "user" groups.


Good point, Wes. It's sorta nice to have "first rights" to the property. It's limited enough as it is.

In general, I think it's better to invent new sources of funding rather than increase prices on existing ones. From a "psychological perspective", most people don't have a problem paying an extra dollar for something to support an activity they love, but they don't want to see their licenses go up again. The tax on wildlife food, as well as these proposed energy development projects, would fall into that category.
_________________________
I'm hungry and tired. Don't poke my belly.

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#3241410 - 05/07/13 03:22 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: scn]
G5PRIME
4 Point


Registered: 08/18/11
Posts: 156
Loc: Paris Tn.

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 Originally Posted By: scn
 Originally Posted By: G5PRIME
 Originally Posted By: Unicam
Hey remove the fishermen and women from that list!! We buy a license!
Im not calling you out personally, but yes fisherman do by a fishing license, but they dont buy a wma permit to fish on a wma. ive thought this was wrong for a very long time? maybe just me? dunno


You are not totally correct. Fishermen do buy a permit to fish some of the managed/stocked trout streams in ETN, and they do buy permits to fish on agency lakes.
how many wma lakes, stream, ponds, or bottoms require a fishing permit in west tn? not calling you out, just wondering?


Edited by G5PRIME (05/07/13 03:22 PM)

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#3241411 - 05/07/13 03:23 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: Crosshairy]
Crosshairy
10 Point


Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 2697
Loc: Bartlett, TN

content Online
Another idea...

The TWRA could sell "raffle tickets" for drawings for lifetime licenses. I'd spend $10 or $20 for a shot at one.
_________________________
I'm hungry and tired. Don't poke my belly.

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#3241413 - 05/07/13 03:25 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: Diehard Hunter]
Buzzard Breath
8 Point


Registered: 07/31/06
Posts: 1672
Loc: East

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Diehard Hunter
...
I would still love to see the following to raise money.

1) a habitat stamp
2) a user/ access fee for anyone without a hunting license.
3) a tax on all wildlife food purchased in tennessee.

1) a habitat stamp - I'm all for this and have expressed this on more than one occasion. However, I would not want to see that money used for the day to day operations of the agency. I would want to see that money earmarked for the purchase of additional lands.

2) a user/access fee - In years past, I was 100% against this. It would mean that anyone who purchases it would have the same voice as the hunters and fishermen in the season setting meetings for TWRC. They would love to come in and shut down hunting for times when they want exclusive access to these lands. BUT,,,, after the birdwatchers shut down the proposed crane hunt a few years ago, it's obvious they have a voice already. Lets charge them and make them pay their share.

3) tax on wildlife food purchases - I like the concept, but I just don't know how you would distinguish between deer corn and cattle corn. It would only mean people would start buying agricultural feed instead of wildlife feed.

These are some good ideas and it gets the thought process started.

I personally would like to see them open South Cherokee NF to statewide seasons. I think the additional opportunities to kill bears and hogs would create additional out-of-state license revenues. I know North Georgia attracts quite a few out-of-state bowhunters for their archery season, and we have far more bears here than they do. In addition, South Cherokee NF borders North Carolina and Georgia and is a short drive for hunters coming from from Alabama and South Carolina. I think creating additional opportunities is an excellent way to bring in revenue.

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#3241427 - 05/07/13 03:41 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: Buzzard Breath]
fredfred
8 Point


Registered: 06/24/12
Posts: 1914
Loc: crossville, tn

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I agree with a lot of the ideas state here. I know were $300,000+ could've been saved last year alone, but lets not go there. I think everybody that sets foot on a WMA should ether have a hunting license or a usage permit. Also if there going to make the millions mentioned in the article on top of the money made from timber cutting we should see a cut in our license fees. I personally don't want to smell a pile of oil wells when I'm tring to hunt or listen to dump trucks and semi's running up and down the roads all day long.
_________________________
AKA: Luke Sky Dumper

Democrats and liberals have turned our country into a bunch of SISSYS

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#3241429 - 05/07/13 03:42 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: G5PRIME]
scn
16 Point


Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 10363
Loc: Brentwood, TN US

Offline
 Originally Posted By: G5PRIME
 Originally Posted By: scn
 Originally Posted By: G5PRIME
 Originally Posted By: Unicam
Hey remove the fishermen and women from that list!! We buy a license!
Im not calling you out personally, but yes fisherman do by a fishing license, but they dont buy a wma permit to fish on a wma. ive thought this was wrong for a very long time? maybe just me? dunno


You are not totally correct. Fishermen do buy a permit to fish some of the managed/stocked trout streams in ETN, and they do buy permits to fish on agency lakes.
how many wma lakes, stream, ponds, or bottoms require a fishing permit in west tn? not calling you out, just wondering?


Check the requirements for all of your agency lakes in WTN.
_________________________
Life is too short to fish with a dead cricket.

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#3241432 - 05/07/13 03:47 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: Buzzard Breath]
bowriter
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 42227
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

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Well, I been cogitatin on this. This here is what I kinda know and maybe some of what I think.
1-I have hunted a ton of land that is or has been coal mined. It was tremendous hunting and I could see no detriment to the land.
2-I know TWRA needs money and I know why. I also have more sense than to compare TN with any other state.
3-I have no problem with hunters and fishermen paying a slightly larger share. But not until bikers, birders and other non-consumtive users pay a fee as well.
4- I am neither a coal miner, an oil driller or an environmental biologist with TWRA. Therefore, I have enough sense not to comment on this any further.
_________________________

Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.

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#3241439 - 05/07/13 03:51 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: scn]
G5PRIME
4 Point


Registered: 08/18/11
Posts: 156
Loc: Paris Tn.

Offline
 Originally Posted By: scn
 Originally Posted By: G5PRIME
 Originally Posted By: scn
 Originally Posted By: G5PRIME
 Originally Posted By: Unicam
Hey remove the fishermen and women from that list!! We buy a license!
Im not calling you out personally, but yes fisherman do by a fishing license, but they dont buy a wma permit to fish on a wma. ive thought this was wrong for a very long time? maybe just me? dunno


You are not totally correct. Fishermen do buy a permit to fish some of the managed/stocked trout streams in ETN, and they do buy permits to fish on agency lakes.
how many wma lakes, stream, ponds, or bottoms require a fishing permit in west tn? not calling you out, just wondering?


Check the requirements for all of your agency lakes in WTN.
i understand, reelfoot, and some other lakes, you have to have a permit, but camden bottoms, gin creek, big sandy bottoms, springville bottoms, dover bottoms, whiteoak creek"stocked trout", huricane creek"stocked trout" and many others that i dont have time or room to mention, you can throw your fishing lure under my duck blind while i hunt and you dont have to have a permit but i do to hunt, i just have never understood that?

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#3241482 - 05/07/13 04:32 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: G5PRIME]
Wes Parrish
16 Point


Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 19448
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN

Offline
What about fishermen (and other boaters) who use a WMA for access to a body of water that doesn't require a WMA permit? Is this what some of you are talking about?

This may or may not be a good example, but when someone drives 20 miles of road into LBL to get to a particular boat ramp on Lake Barkely or Kentucky Lake (can often be quicker and less gas involved than boating up the river), do these boaters pay any type of WMA "usage" fee?

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#3241490 - 05/07/13 04:45 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: BlountArrow]
Grizzly Johnson
Team Grizzly
16 Point


Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 15702
Loc: Tennessee

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 Originally Posted By: BlountArrow
 Originally Posted By: Football Hunter
 Originally Posted By: beechnut


Anymore pics of the girl on the right????????


Amen brother.



If you watch the modern movie: The Dukes of Hazzard

you can see alot more of her.... ;\)
_________________________
But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

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#3241491 - 05/07/13 04:45 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: Wes Parrish]
G5PRIME
4 Point


Registered: 08/18/11
Posts: 156
Loc: Paris Tn.

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Wes Parrish
What about fishermen (and other boaters) who use a WMA for access to a body of water that doesn't require a WMA permit? Is this what some of you are talking about?

This may or may not be a good example, but when someone drives 20 miles of road into LBL to get to a particular boat ramp on Lake Barkely or Kentucky Lake (can often be quicker and less gas involved than boating up the river), do these boaters pay any type of WMA "usage" fee?
this is NOT what we wer talking about, and i personally dont see anything wrong with your senario, no i dont think those should need a permit, again just my opinion.

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#3241514 - 05/07/13 05:33 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: bowriter]
encore06
16 Point


Registered: 12/08/06
Posts: 10702
Loc: Harrogate, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: bowriter
Well, I been cogitatin on this.
Does this involve sitting on a toilet with a magazine? Or did you replace the magazine with a pen & tablet? \:D
.
.
.
.
bw, you've been in TN long enough to come down to our level and say something like, "well, I was mulling this over and what I've come up with is..." \:D
_________________________
God Bless, Carl

Jer 29:11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the Lord, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope.

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#3241548 - 05/07/13 06:14 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: Diehard Hunter]
RUGER Administrator
Bambi Killa
Non-Typical


Registered: 11/19/99
Posts: 4106371
Loc: TN

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 Originally Posted By: Diehard Hunter
 Originally Posted By: BMan
 Originally Posted By: RUGER
I am more upset about the MANY people who use WMA's and places like LBL for their use for fishing, hiking, bird watching, bike riding, etc. that don't have to pay ANYTHING to use it.

Not sure if Catoosa is the same way or not but I, for one, am tired of paying fees to use such lands and they do so for free.

Exactly right. Let the other users share the cost, not jut the hunters.


Sorry ruger....LBL is part of the US Forest service, and they are mandated by congress to be a multiple use agency. I am not sure if TWRA has to pay them or not, but I do know TWRA has to pay the USFS for Cherokee national forest to be a WMA. I would love to see those funds stay in the coffers for other uses.



Yeah I knew LBL wasn't TWRA controlled or benefited, just using it as an example of sorts.
Should have left it out I guess.
_________________________
Youth is wasted on the young.

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#3241603 - 05/07/13 07:34 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: fredfred]
dr
10 Point


Registered: 02/24/03
Posts: 4405
Loc: USA

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 Originally Posted By: fredfred
I agree with a lot of the ideas state here. I know were $300,000+ could've been saved last year alone, but lets not go there. I think everybody that sets foot on a WMA should ether have a hunting license or a usage permit. Also if there going to make the millions mentioned in the article on top of the money made from timber cutting we should see a cut in our license fees. I personally don't want to smell a pile of oil wells when I'm tring to hunt or listen to dump trucks and semi's running up and down the roads all day long.

Exactly,
I'm betting the coal mine in Cumberland co. is the site of the old strip mine located in Hebbertsburg area. My property is near there and adjoins Catoosa. When the strip mine was operating, dump trucks ran up and down that narrow mountain road, barely wide enough for two vehicles to pass. And, all the homes and vehicles stayed covered in white dust. There was also quite a bit of blasting that reportedly damaged peoples homes.

Several years ago, they had a deal to haul the coal ash residue from the Kingston steam plant disaster to the strip mine and dump it. Cumberland Co. was supposed to get about a million from the deal, but after much litigation by residents on the road, it was defeated. They estimated that more than 200 dump trucks a day would run up and down the road seven days a week, eight hours a day, for at least 5 years.

I believe this is more about lining the pockets of politicians, and businessmen, than helping TWRA. In any event, our parks, and recreational land should NOT be for SALE! I don't believe too many people would be in favor of this if they had to hear and see those 200 trucks going by their house every day.
_________________________
"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him --- better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford

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#3241614 - 05/07/13 07:49 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: Diehard Hunter]
gator-n-buck
WAFL
18 Point


Registered: 10/22/08
Posts: 22284
Loc: Knox, TN / Palatka, FL

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Diehard Hunter
I would truly hate to see this happen. However, I understand the reasoning behind it. Everyone gripes about how much the licenses cost, so the general public obviously won't go for an increase in license cost. I have mentioned a habitat stamp on here a couple of times, and very few people even gave it a second look, less than a handful stated they would support it. Everyone complains there are not enough officers and not enough land.

So, my question to everyone is. How would YOU increase revenue for the TWRA? "Not that way" is not a valid answer.

There was a time in American history when sportsmen would stand up and put their money where their mouth is to protect what we have. Now they sit back and whine about having to spend money.

BTW, many of you are of the drill here, drill now mindset, and have blasted Obama for his energy policy. You do not have the right to change your tune now that it is going to directly affect you. You either want more domestic energy production or you don't. If you do, this is a way to benefit TWRA while meeting your goal. If you don't, then you must be in agreement with Obama's energy policy.

Blast away boys and girls, you can't have it both ways.

BTW, drilling and mining have been going on for decades on North Cumberland WMA and on the properties surrounding Catoosa.


Well stated.... You can't have your cake and eat it too... There are no free lunches in life unless you carry around one of those flag credit cards in your back pocket that the rest of us pay for... \:\)

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#3241666 - 05/07/13 08:40 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: gator-n-buck]
dr
10 Point


Registered: 02/24/03
Posts: 4405
Loc: USA

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There was a time in American history when sportsmen would stand up and put their money where their mouth is to protect what we have. Now they sit back and whine about having to spend money.

BTW, many of you are of the drill here, drill now mindset, and have blasted Obama for his energy policy. You do not have the right to change your tune now that it is going to directly affect you. You either want more domestic energy production or you don't. If you do, this is a way to benefit TWRA while meeting your goal. If you don't, then you must be in agreement with Obama's energy policy.


[/quote]
Sportsmen already pay plenty toward wildlife, and fisheries management. People have a right to whine about having to spend more money. We are being taxed at increasing rates every year. This sounds like more of a money making scheme for politicians, and businessmen, with TWRA getting only the scraps.

Raping wildlife management land set aside for sportsman more than 50 years ago, has nothing to do with noboma policy. What's next, mining in the Great Smoky Mountains? Funny you should mention noboma, he's always taking more of our money, and giving it to the wrong people, while we get nothing in return. I'm betting that if $10 million a year were raised by coal mining, you won't see your license fees go down one cent, but will see more encroachment onto once pristine hunting land.
_________________________
"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him --- better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford

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#3241678 - 05/07/13 08:53 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: gator-n-buck]
KPH
10 Point


Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 3992
Loc: Hendersonville Tenn

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I knew I should have pop the corn
_________________________
"No I am not a good shot, but I shoot often" Teddy Roosevelt

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#3241681 - 05/07/13 08:57 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: gator-n-buck]
preds1
12 Point


Registered: 10/16/09
Posts: 6549
Loc: Sumner County

Offline
I guess my armchair business advisory role here says go for it.
Make the money off royalties if there's no environmental impact.

It will only benefit us TN sportsmen in the long run. (hopefully)
Grow the elk, add a tag or two. More trout streams.
Who knows. Just hope it benefits TN wildlife some way in the long run.

Also, agree with the folks who mentioned usage fees for non-hunters. Makes perfect sense.

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#3241721 - 05/07/13 10:00 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: preds1]
fredfred
8 Point


Registered: 06/24/12
Posts: 1914
Loc: crossville, tn

Offline
dr I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees whats going on here
_________________________
AKA: Luke Sky Dumper

Democrats and liberals have turned our country into a bunch of SISSYS

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#3241746 - 05/07/13 10:56 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: gator-n-buck]
TNhunter
TnDeer Old Timer
10 Point


Registered: 11/01/99
Posts: 4392
Loc: Murfreesboro, TN, Rutherford

Offline
Thread is too long to read in its entirety but why is the first answer to issues ALWAYS how can the government get their hands on more money. CUT SPENDING and live within the budgets. We all have to do it. Wish I could just walk in and demand more money from my employer every month or two.
_________________________
TNhunter


"If there is unrest, the government will seize all the registered guns."

"You need guns and ammo first – then everything else."

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#3241776 - 05/07/13 11:49 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: TNhunter]
Poleaxe
8 Point


Registered: 09/08/12
Posts: 2359
Loc: Etowah Tennessee

Offline
I cant believe the TWRA is gullible enough to think for one second more than half of the money profited from the mining doesnt find its way into Haslam's pockets. I would support this if I knew
1That ALL profits stayed to aid TWRA
2. That all the land used for the mining upon completion is returned back to the hunters. IMMEDIATELY

Wait and see, dear Brother Bill will hype the media with how much $ could help the state and do some bogus crap (example) like rezoning it and only giving TWRA a $1000 check. He is a bottom feeder. Personally in my book I rank him one step below a child molester.

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#3241792 - 05/08/13 03:23 AM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: Poleaxe]
SCAT
6 Point


Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 743
Loc: ANDERSON CO.

Offline
North Cumberland WMA is owned by TWRA. BUT, the mineral rights aren't. The mineral rights owner could come in and set up camp at any time. I'm sure that lots of previously mined WMA's are the same.
_________________________
She told me if I go hunting one more time she's gonna leave me......I'm gonna miss her...

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#3241799 - 05/08/13 04:14 AM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: SCAT]
mike243
16 Point


Registered: 09/06/06
Posts: 12201
Loc: east tn

Offline
I look at it as TWRA being the manager of our states 401/wildlife.They control it & find ways to increase our returns.We probaly wont see our lic costs dropped but they also may not rise .1 day soon coal will be outlawed & then it will just be a black rock with no value & we will look back & ask our selfs why we didnt sell it while it was worth something.Would you want your $ to to grow or stay at current rate knowing that a maintenace fee has to be taken out of it every year? .Twra has to spend $ on every peice of ground they own or lease no matter if its gravel/road repair or officers to patrol it.The state will keep making attemps to take over TWRA in order to gain control of the $ generated by them no matter if this deal goes thru or not.I see it more of a positive than a negative for the most part.I will have to leave the impact comments up to the folks what have the schooling & real world knowledge,I do know other folks that live near the areas will be affected more than any of us that live no where near there.If we loose 100ac out of 30,000ac that would beat having to cut back property use on all of it imo. Investing into our wildlife & propertys has to be changed as the times change & you either grow or you waste away & the property gets sold because of lack of $ to keep the areas open/safe.Good luck to all of us to have the right paths picked as hind sight sucks lol
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#3241801 - 05/08/13 04:16 AM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: mike243]
smstone22
16 Point


Registered: 01/11/04
Posts: 16947
Loc: Allardt, TN

Offline
Frefred, I hope the environmental impacts have been greatly improved. All it takes is a drive to Wilder and a look at the river to get a feel for what coal mining did here. The river looks lifeless.
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-Let Him Go, So He Can Grow

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#3241819 - 05/08/13 05:23 AM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: TNhunter]
BlountArrow
10 Point


Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 2775
Loc: SouthEast Tenn

content Online
 Originally Posted By: TNhunter
Thread is too long to read in its entirety but why is the first answer to issues ALWAYS how can the government get their hands on more money. CUT SPENDING and live within the budgets. We all have to do it. Wish I could just walk in and demand more money from my employer every month or two.


^THIS^; exactly my point. By the way, I'm not saying TWRA isn't already making sacrifices like so many other agencies and businesses. But, I posed the question earlier and the response was more/less TWRA has already cut all they can, and the only idea I remember reading was to close WMAs. There has to be areas in the agency and "pet" projects that are of little to no value. I don't expect a free ride, but I do expect us all (TWRA and Sportsmen) to make concessions. I think some great ideas have been brought up here on how TWRA could increase revenue, and I hope someone brings it to the table.

 Originally Posted By: BlountArrow
How would you suggest the TWRA cut costs? There has to be areas that are obviously less fruitful where money would be better spent elsewhere or not spent at all. Any company, agency, big or small, has areas where they essentially "waste" money for one reason or the other. Where are those areas with the TWRA?
_________________________
"The world is so dreadfully managed, one hardly knows to whom to complain."
-Ronald Firbank

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#3241821 - 05/08/13 05:31 AM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: dr]
BlountArrow
10 Point


Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 2775
Loc: SouthEast Tenn

content Online
 Originally Posted By: dr
...When the strip mine was operating, dump trucks ran up and down that narrow mountain road, barely wide enough for two vehicles to pass. And, all the homes and vehicles stayed covered in white dust. There was also quite a bit of blasting that reportedly damaged peoples homes.
...They estimated that more than 200 dump trucks a day would run up and down the road seven days a week, eight hours a day, for at least 5 years.
...I don't believe too many people would be in favor of this if they had to hear and see those 200 trucks going by their house every day.


^I thought this beared repeating^.

My in-laws live in SW Pennsylvania where there is a ton of mining. All day, there are huge semi tankers running up and down the road hauling 1000s of gallons of water for fracking (hope that is spelled right - don't know much about the process itself). Day and night, while your kids are playing in the yard, or while you're sleeping, or while you're babies or kids are trying to sleep, and it is less than a 100 yards from the front door. Sound like somewhere you'd wanna live?
_________________________
"The world is so dreadfully managed, one hardly knows to whom to complain."
-Ronald Firbank

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#3241881 - 05/08/13 07:27 AM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: TNhunter]
Wes Parrish
16 Point


Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 19448
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: TNhunter
Thread is too long to read in its entirety but why is the first answer to issues ALWAYS how can the government get their hands on more money. CUT SPENDING and live within the budgets. We all have to do it. Wish I could just walk in and demand more money from my employer every month or two.

We are in general agreement with these thoughts, but there is one aspect of this that many are missing:
TWRA is not your "typical" government agency.
UNLIKE nearly all the others, they are not being funded by the State's general fund. TWRA gets virtually none of any taxes you pay (which goes to all those other government agencies, many of which provide the payer of those taxes nothing, absolutely nothing).

TWRA is almost totally self-funded by hunting & fishing license sales. As I say this, TWRA is one of the few government agencies that's (currently) operating in the black, i.e. they have not and are not creating debt for our grandchildren to pay. Wouldn't it be great if all government agencies could be self-funded by those who benefit most from the entity?

TWRA has already CUT SPENDING, and has been living within their current "bare-bones" budgets, much like many of the rest of us. But just like us as individuals, sometimes our incomes get reduced, sometimes we have unexpected expenditures, and sometimes we have to find new ways to bring in more money if we expect to not go into debt.

IMO, TWRA is now simply exploring all options to increase their funding.
Isn't that what they should be doing rather than to be quick to raise license costs?

Finally, we experience "inflation" in almost all aspects of our financial lives. Things cost more over time. But when was the last time TWRA increased the costs of our hunting & fishing licenses? Adjusted for inflation, TWRA has been steadily collecting less money from us, and would need to increase licensing cost just to bring in relatively the same amount to cover their rising expenses.

So there is no way licensing costs can go down. But it would be nice if TWRA found other ways to bring in revenue, and may be able to keep licensing costs from going up as fast as inflation. Not to mention, the issue of fewer hunters & fisherman, thus fewer people will be buying hunting & fishing licenses in the future, reducing TWRA's main funding base.

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#3241962 - 05/08/13 08:37 AM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: Wes Parrish]
bowriter
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 42227
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

Offline
Ima be a game wardman when I grow up. BTW, y'all solved this yet or do Ineed to dosome mroe gogitatin? I got me a magazine ready.
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#3242093 - 05/08/13 10:47 AM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: bowriter]
fredfred
8 Point


Registered: 06/24/12
Posts: 1914
Loc: crossville, tn

Offline
Kinda got off track a little guys
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#3242094 - 05/08/13 10:55 AM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: fredfred]
Andy S.
TnDeer Old Timer
14 Point


Registered: 07/26/99
Posts: 8090
Loc: Atoka, TN

Offline
Interesting article related to this subject. http://www.newschannel5.com/story/22187635/lobbyist-on-payroll-of-both-governor-special-interests
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Andy S.

If I had saved all the money I spent on hunting, I'd spend it on hunting.

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#3242105 - 05/08/13 11:08 AM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: Andy S.]
farmin68
16 Point


Registered: 11/08/03
Posts: 13853
Loc: In a tree clinging to my guns ...

Offline
I need to know more, but for now, as long as the revenue goes directly to TWRA (NOT into the state general fund!) I am all for it.

I am also in favor of timber sales on all government property. Including TWRA, TVA, U.S. Forest, and federal wildlife refuges.

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#3242111 - 05/08/13 11:21 AM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: farmin68]
TNGunsmoke
8 Point


Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 1416
Loc: Jackson,TN

Offline
Timber sales via select cut would benefit wildlife, hunters, and all those other folks that want to use the outdoors, some of them just don't realize how much. Just because the new growth is thick, they think it is bad, and it interferes with the ability to see through the woods looking for wildlife that has moved on to other areas.
_________________________
You can't fix stupid.....

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#3242122 - 05/08/13 11:35 AM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: Crappie Luck]
arctic_cat
8 Point


Registered: 11/18/08
Posts: 2453
Loc: Lenoir City,Tn

Offline
I havent read all the comments but is this part of what they are talking about? This has been in process for awhile now. The ut land they are talking about doing this to butts up to my lease in Morgan County.

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2012/dec/02/ut-plans-to-drill-for-gas-on-its-land-study/
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#3242130 - 05/08/13 11:47 AM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: Andy S.]
fredfred
8 Point


Registered: 06/24/12
Posts: 1914
Loc: crossville, tn

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Andy S.



If you lay with dogs your bound to get flees. TWRA is gonna need a flee bath before long it looks like
_________________________
AKA: Luke Sky Dumper

Democrats and liberals have turned our country into a bunch of SISSYS

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#3242177 - 05/08/13 12:54 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: arctic_cat]
smstone22
16 Point


Registered: 01/11/04
Posts: 16947
Loc: Allardt, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: arctic_cat
I havent read all the comments but is this part of what they are talking about? This has been in process for awhile now. The ut land they are talking about doing this to butts up to my lease in Morgan County.

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2012/dec/02/ut-plans-to-drill-for-gas-on-its-land-study/


That is UT doing that. Different deal. Right up the road from the land I own over there.
_________________________
-QDM=Better Deer, Better Deer Hunting
-Let Him Go, So He Can Grow

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#3242184 - 05/08/13 01:05 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: smstone22]
arctic_cat
8 Point


Registered: 11/18/08
Posts: 2453
Loc: Lenoir City,Tn

Offline
 Originally Posted By: smstone22
 Originally Posted By: arctic_cat
I havent read all the comments but is this part of what they are talking about? This has been in process for awhile now. The ut land they are talking about doing this to butts up to my lease in Morgan County.

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2012/dec/02/ut-plans-to-drill-for-gas-on-its-land-study/


That is UT doing that. Different deal. Right up the road from the land I own over there.


10/4
_________________________
GO BLUE

WHEN YOU LOSE SOMEONE YOU LOVE, YOU GAIN AN ANGEL YOU KNOW

MEMORIES, IT'S THE ONLY THING THAT CAN NEVER BE TAKEN AWAY.

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#3242199 - 05/08/13 01:23 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: fredfred]
Poleaxe
8 Point


Registered: 09/08/12
Posts: 2359
Loc: Etowah Tennessee

Offline
 Originally Posted By: fredfred
 Originally Posted By: Andy S.



If you lay with dogs your bound to get flees. TWRA is gonna need a flee bath before long it looks like


Wait and see, dear Brother Bill will hype the media with how much $ could help the state and do some bogus crap (example) like rezoning it and only giving TWRA a $1000 check. He is a bottom feeder. Personally in my book I rank him one step below a child molester. 

I couldn't have called it any better.

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#3242361 - 05/08/13 05:50 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: Poleaxe]
dr
10 Point


Registered: 02/24/03
Posts: 4405
Loc: USA

Offline
I'm all for helping TWRA, but this is a bad idea imo. If approved, this could lead to timber cutting, mining, RV trails, and horseback riding, on more and more hunting areas statewide. What happens when some politicians, and wealthy developers decide they want to build a golf course on a portion of a wildlife area?

There are some good hunting properties in Cumberland Co. that have now been posted "no hunting due to housing." If the coal mine they are wanting to operate is on Smith Mountain, the people residing there will be very upset. It is 7 miles from the mine to the interstate. I can't imagine how anyone living in that area could tolerate a 100, or more trucks a day going up and back down that road.
_________________________
"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him --- better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford

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#3245104 - 05/12/13 09:16 PM Re: TWRA wants to start mining and drilling our land [Re: Crappie Luck]
Bootlegger
4 Point


Registered: 04/26/13
Posts: 144
Loc: Crossville,TN

Offline
I live right next to Catoosa...wonder whats gonna happen?
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