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#3240925 - 05/07/13 04:47 AM Bible Question
SilverFox
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Registered: 10/16/10
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Which Bible do you read? Why?

I was brought up in a Baptist Church and still have the 2 Bibles they gave us. One as a small kid around 5 or 6 and then another when I graduated from High School. The second is a study Bible. Both are KJV.

I'm wanting to move to another Bible that's easier to read. I've read out of several Bibles over the years. One I kept with me at work was the new world translation. I wasn't really fond of it but it was easy to read and I could go back and forth between it and my study Bible. I've never been good at reading comprehension... So the easier the better for me.

Thanks
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#3240938 - 05/07/13 05:35 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: SilverFox]
BlountArrow
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Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 2788
Loc: SouthEast Tenn

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If it ain't King James....it ain't bible.
Just kidding, I saw it on a bumper sticker the other day. I been using the NKJV myself, but I was not persuaded by a bumper sticker. My pastor preaches from the same. I struggle with the comprehension a lot too. I've been considering something a little easier for a simpleton like me to read and understand as well.
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#3240946 - 05/07/13 05:46 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: BlountArrow]
rabbit hunter
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Registered: 03/04/10
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I do my daily Bible reading from the New Living Translation. It's easy to read and understand.
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#3240954 - 05/07/13 05:54 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: rabbit hunter]
Kimber45 Moderator
Peace Maker
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Registered: 07/10/08
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Good thread and thanks for starting it!

I'm still in the KJV and with my pee poor understanding of the writings you'd think I'd have already made a transition.

Ok study hounds - let's hear it.. I'm watching this thread and making an effort to find the version that most mimicks the KJV but with it broken down so that my mud/slush brain can truly understand what I'm reading \:\)

I'll be downloading a new version to the Ipad as a result of this thread so I can give it a try!
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#3241012 - 05/07/13 07:25 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: Kimber45]
Nimrod777
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Registered: 09/28/03
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Personally I use an NIV/Message parallel translation. I like it because 1) the NIV is an easily understood and accurate translation which is easy to teach, preach and study from, 2) it's a commonly held translation that our church family is likely to have on hand, and 3) having a parallel of The Message can give an interesting angle in language and concept for comparison.

For study I may include a look at the American Standard or the New American Standard as well, since they tend to be possibly a little more accurate to the original language.
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#3241016 - 05/07/13 07:29 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: Nimrod777]
Nimrod777
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Oh, I recommend that you go check out http://www.biblegateway.com, find a favorite passage, then click to change translations. It will allow you to rapidly compare the use of language and grammar, get a feel for the "voice" of the various versions available.

Also you may want to know that a "translation" is taken from the original languages (Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic), while anything that is a "paraphrase" is not. That doesn't invalidate a paraphrase as being useful and helpful, but you wouldn't want to base any vital belief on a word found in a paraphrase ;\)
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#3241018 - 05/07/13 07:32 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: Nimrod777]
EastTNHunter
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Registered: 03/08/10
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I lover my NASB study Bible. It would take me writing an essay on here to explain why, but the specific one that I have was given to me by a friend and the study helps and commentaries were compiled by the late esteemed Bible scholar Spiros Zodiatis (sp.?) of Moody Bible Institute renown.
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#3241037 - 05/07/13 07:53 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: Kimber45]
Hunter 257W
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Registered: 10/04/12
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Loc: Franklin County

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You can take a look at a bunch of versions here. I like the NIV and God's Word Translation myself. King James is the worst for comprehension in my opinion.

http://classic.biblegateway.com/versions/


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#3241048 - 05/07/13 08:06 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: EastTNHunter]
huntinkev
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I am just a plain KJV myself. I guess I'm old fashioned I don't know. They use different manuscripts to translate the other versions so they are some small differences in them so I have just stuck it out with the KJV.

Example. John 14:2 one says mansions another says rooms.
minor details

Now I'm not saying there is anything wrong with the other versions at all, it's just my preference.

My Uncle likes the English standard version pretty well.

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#3241057 - 05/07/13 08:14 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: huntinkev]
Bayou Buck
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I use the NKJV mostly. I also listen to "The Word of Promise" often. It is an acted out recording of the bible in nkjv with some pretty good actors. I would recommend you check it out. Jim Caviezel plays Jesus. You can play it in your car as you drive and then cross reference with the script when you have time.
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#3241067 - 05/07/13 08:26 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: Bayou Buck]
pressfit
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Registered: 12/28/09
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I have the bible app on my phone... tried a bunch of them.. the Holman Christian Standard Bible is what our preacher preaches from.. you would like it..
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#3241076 - 05/07/13 08:35 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: pressfit]
ROUGH COUNTRY HUNTER
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Registered: 11/12/10
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I am in the same situation.a buddy of mine keeps telling me to pray for the lord to help me understand what I am reading.i need something easier to understand so far
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#3241093 - 05/07/13 08:42 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: ROUGH COUNTRY HUNTER]
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Mud Dauber
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I have an relative who had a mid life crisis, quit his gov't job less than 1 year away from retirement and, after bouncing around different churches for awhile, dedicated himself to learning Greek, Arabic and Hebrew so that he would not have to rely on secondary translations. After a few years of intense study in his mid 50s, he became a ordained Greek Orthodox priest. My understanding is that he did the equivalent of 40 years of intense study in less than 10 years.
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#3241094 - 05/07/13 08:42 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: Bayou Buck]
Crow Terminator
TnDeer Old Timer
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King James here. Be very careful with new modern translations...they can take something and make it mean something totally different and you will miss a good blessing because of it. Take one of my favorite verses for example. Isaiah 40:31 KJV:

"But they that WAIT upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint."

vs the NIV version of the same:

"But those who HOPE in the Lord will renew their strength.
They will soar on wings like eagles; they will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not be faint."

Note what I capitalized in both of them...KJV says they that WAIT upon the Lord. NIV says those who HOPE. There's a big difference in WAITING upon the Lord and HOPING in something. The word WAIT actually does not mean what you might think it does...the word it is translated from is actually about serving the Lord....like a waiter or waitress at a place to eat...i.e. they wait on you. It's not about patiently waiting as in a passing of time. It's about servitude...those that Wait upon the Lord he continually renews their strength. What makes a good waiter? Well it's one that never lets you run out of things...their job while you are there as the guest, is to be Johnny on the spot and take good care of your wants...more food, more drinks, etc. The Lord just wants you to serve Him and if you do such, he will take care of you and renew your strength. That's how some evangelists can preach 50+ weeks out of the year and never grow tired.

There's a bunch of differences like that between the versions...with totally different meanings as to what it's suppose to be. Especially when some versions say a "young woman" shall conceive instead of a virgin. There are lots of young women that aren't virgins...but the virgin birth is essential to the life of Christ and salvation and has been eliminated in versions like the RSV and a few others.

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#3241103 - 05/07/13 08:54 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: Crow Terminator]
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Mud Dauber
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 Originally Posted By: Crow Terminator
King James here. Be very careful with new modern translations...they can take something and make it mean something totally different and you will miss a good blessing because of it.


I'd like to point out that one could easily say the same thing about the KJ version. It was the "modern translation" of its time.
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Wild & crazy, can't be stopped. Only the strong will survive.

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#3241111 - 05/07/13 08:58 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: Poser]
Deer Assassin
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king james version or nothing IMO

I agree with Crow the other versions are lacking and take out important words
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#3241117 - 05/07/13 09:04 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: Deer Assassin]
Poser
Mud Dauber
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 Originally Posted By: Deer Assassin
king james version or nothing IMO

I agree with Crow the other versions are lacking and take out important words


I'm not necessarily defending the "modern translations", but, again, I ask the question, could you not say the same thing about the KJ version? Did it not take out and/or change important or potentially important words?
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It doesn't have to be fun to be fun.

Wild & crazy, can't be stopped. Only the strong will survive.

Keep your knife sharp and your skillet greasy.

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#3241118 - 05/07/13 09:05 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: Poser]
Crow Terminator
TnDeer Old Timer
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The KJV has stood the test of time since 1611. Like silver purified in a furnace 7 times...it was the 7th translation purified without blemish. It took the translators 7 years to complete it. Which also so happens that 7 is God's number for completion. \:\) It may all be coincidental but no other can claim that. hahah
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#3241136 - 05/07/13 09:28 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: SilverFox]
jos3ywales
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Registered: 10/02/09
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KJV Study Version also most Baptist Prachers I know including my Father (Preacher) Uses the Same
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#3241143 - 05/07/13 09:41 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: Bayou Buck]
KPH
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Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 4000
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I was raised on begats, beholds and surelys got to stay with King James
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#3241177 - 05/07/13 10:11 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: KPH]
woodchuckc
8 Point


Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 1802
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KJV and NKJV are my staples. I much prefer actual translations versus transliterations even though they may be easier to read, as I think they hold closer to the truths and meanings that God wants us to base our belief upon. That being said, there are some (many) Greek and Hebrew words for which there are not adequate English equivalents and therein lies the value of using multiple translations and other study texts to better understand what the original scripts said.
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#3241178 - 05/07/13 10:16 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: woodchuckc]
jb3
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"there are some (many) Greek and Hebrew words for which there are not adequate English equivalents"

could not have said it better woodchuck

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#3241188 - 05/07/13 10:28 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: jb3]
TENN.BOY
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thats why we have to keep reading it and studying it,I don't think we wil never understand it completely,if we will use all of our study referances and keep reading it we will always get something differant out of it every time.JOHN3:16 I don't understand it but it makes an empty man full,a cold boy warm and lost boy saved. Just keep reading it is the main thing and he will show you the blessings of it .
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#3241212 - 05/07/13 10:57 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: woodchuckc]
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Mud Dauber
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 Originally Posted By: woodchuckc
and therein lies the value of using multiple translations and other study texts to better understand what the original scripts said.


that's a good point and pretty much what I was getting at.
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It doesn't have to be fun to be fun.

Wild & crazy, can't be stopped. Only the strong will survive.

Keep your knife sharp and your skillet greasy.

http://www.GoCarnivore.com

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#3241234 - 05/07/13 11:31 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: Bayou Buck]
TNGunsmoke
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Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 1417
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I use NKJV and HCST. Sometimes one is clearer, sometimes the other.
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#3241235 - 05/07/13 11:33 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: Poser]
Deck78
6 Point


Registered: 10/07/10
Posts: 766
Loc: hipster hollow

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I use a New Inductive Study Bible in addition to participating in Precept. (www.precept.org) It is amazing to learn that I don't know what I don't know and I don't know as much as I should \:\)
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#3241273 - 05/07/13 12:01 PM Re: Bible Question [Re: SilverFox]
Goat
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I encourage everyone, believers and non-believers, to read the book "Misquoting Jesus - the Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why" by Bart D. Ehrman.
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#3241299 - 05/07/13 12:40 PM Re: Bible Question [Re: Poser]
Bayou Buck
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Registered: 05/11/09
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 Originally Posted By: Poser
 Originally Posted By: Crow Terminator
King James here. Be very careful with new modern translations...they can take something and make it mean something totally different and you will miss a good blessing because of it.


I'd like to point out that one could easily say the same thing about the KJ version. It was the "modern translation" of its time.


Yup, the original Bible was in Hebrew and Aramaic, and then Greek. There was a lot of paganism in the greek world and some of the translations show that. (even in the KJV). Read which ever translation you like but then study it back to its source so you can grasp a better understanding.

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#3241457 - 05/07/13 04:02 PM Re: Bible Question [Re: Bayou Buck]
Brisco Darlin
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Registered: 04/24/12
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KJV. What i have always read.
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#3241475 - 05/07/13 04:24 PM Re: Bible Question [Re: Brisco Darlin]
SilverFox
12 Point


Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 5395
Loc: Kodak TN

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Thanks guys
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#3241477 - 05/07/13 04:27 PM Re: Bible Question [Re: Brisco Darlin]
Crosshairy
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Registered: 08/22/06
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I've seen a lot of folks using The Message to read alongside another translation (often NIV or NLV). It's really interesting to read, because the concept behind it is to use a phrase (sometimes a bit lengthy) to describe the concept conveyed, instead of just trying to translate word-to-word.

If that doesn't make sense, then think of it this way...
Old languages were relatively simple in terms of vocabulary, compared to English. In most cases, a single word or phrase could have a lot of implied meaning based on the context of its use. That translation is focused on explaining the meaning.

I don't recommend The Message for memorization purposes, however, because all the extra content means more words to store away \:\)
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#3241565 - 05/07/13 06:39 PM Re: Bible Question [Re: woodchuckc]
Wobblyshot1
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Registered: 10/13/10
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 Originally Posted By: woodchuckc
KJV and NKJV are my staples. I much prefer actual translations versus transliterations even though they may be easier to read, as I think they hold closer to the truths and meanings that God wants us to base our belief upon. That being said, there are some (many) Greek and Hebrew words for which there are not adequate English equivalents and therein lies the value of using multiple translations and other study texts to better understand what the original scripts said.


Totally agree.
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#3241757 - 05/07/13 11:11 PM Re: Bible Question [Re: jos3ywales]
Tiny
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KJV for me an have several of them an will get some more. I really like the "Open" "Life Applications" & "Ryrie" the Mossy Oak also has some good info..
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#3241970 - 05/08/13 08:45 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: jos3ywales]
REN
Good ol' Boys "Team Grizzly"
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i like to read a few different ones just to get a better idea or different view.

i normally read the KJ or the TNIV versions but recently i have started to read the Message version as well.
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#3242322 - 05/08/13 04:46 PM Re: Bible Question [Re: jos3ywales]
tnfirefighter
8 Point


Registered: 10/11/04
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Ive always used a KJV. I've always been taught, God will let you understand and see things in the Bible. If your having trouble understanding something, than the Lord believes your not ready for it. Also about study Bibles.....the translation and interpretation is by scholars or man.... and is not the Lords word.

I'm not bashing anybody for using any type of Bible, this is just what Ive been taught
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#3242324 - 05/08/13 04:54 PM Re: Bible Question [Re: tnfirefighter]
jb3
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Registered: 02/23/09
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"If your having trouble understanding something, than the Lord believes your not ready for it."

Not quite sure I'm reading into that the way your probably meant it. You ever tried to read what John wrote in Revelation.

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#3242360 - 05/08/13 05:48 PM Re: Bible Question [Re: Bayou Buck]
Ahuntin1
4 Point


Registered: 12/10/09
Posts: 299
Loc: Collierville, TN

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I read NIV (84). There is a newer version on my iphone and it will not let me reference the older version anymore. I was given an NIV when i graduated and the new version is just different. The sentences mean about the same, but I am too used to finding verses by the actual wording. I guess I don't adapt well to change.
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#3242364 - 05/08/13 05:52 PM Re: Bible Question [Re: jos3ywales]
Beekeeper
Good ol' Boys "Team Buckcreek"
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Registered: 08/26/09
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KJV.
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#3242369 - 05/08/13 06:02 PM Re: Bible Question [Re: Beekeeper]
Bowdacious
Skillet
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I have KJV 1611 (which a lot of folks think they have but don't), KJV 1627(the ones we use today), NKJV, NIV, God's Word and the New Living Translation. I read out of all of them. I just had this discussion with a friend. She has been trying to read the Bible but the old english leaves her frustrated and aggravated. I will be taking her one of mine to see if she has a better time with it.
For those who thing the KJV is the ONLY Bible, I ask you this- How is it any better? It is a translation. A very good one but in a dialect that can be troublesome to a lot of people. To be truly reading the original Bible, you will have to learn Greek, Hebrew and some Aramaic. A translation done by God Fearing scholars who use the original text cannot be called wrong, imo. I don't see anything wrong with reading one you can understand and will actually pick up and study.
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#3242370 - 05/08/13 06:09 PM Re: Bible Question [Re: Crow Terminator]
Bowdacious
Skillet
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 Originally Posted By: Crow Terminator
The KJV has stood the test of time since 1611. Like silver purified in a furnace 7 times...it was the 7th translation purified without blemish. It took the translators 7 years to complete it. Which also so happens that 7 is God's number for completion. \:\) It may all be coincidental but no other can claim that. hahah

I would bet money that what you have been told is a 1611 version id=s actually a 1627. The 1611 is extremely difficult to read. It is in very old English. The 1627 updated the language to the more "modern" way of speaking at the time.

Give it a try. It's fine to love a certain translation and the KJV to me, has beautiful language but be careful to not beat someone over the head with incorrect information.

Viewing the 1611 King James Version.
Proverbs Chapter 1



Proverbs Chapter 1, Original 1611 KJV

View original 1611 Bible scan for Proverbs chapter 1
(this is a scan from the exact, authentic, original 1611 'HE' King James Bible)

1 The Prouerbes of Solomon the sonne of Dauid, King of Israel,

2 To knowe wisedome and instruction, to perceiue the words of vnderstanding,

3 To receiue the instruction of wisdome, iustice, and iudgement & equitie,

4 To giue subtiltie to the simple, to the yong man knowledge and discretion.

5 A wise man wil heare, and wil increase learning: and a man of vnderstanding shall attaine vnto wise counsels:

6 To vnderstand a prouerbe, and the interpretation; the wordes of the wise, and their darke sayings.

7 ¶ The feare of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fooles despise wisedome and instruction.

8 My sonne, heare the instruction of thy father, and forsake not the law of thy mother.

9 For they shall be an ornament of grace vnto thy head, and chaines about thy necke.

10 ¶ My sonne, if sinners entise thee, consent thou not.

11 If they say, Come with vs, let vs lay wait for blood, let vs lurke priuily for the innocent without cause:

12 Let vs swallow them vp aliue, as the graue, and whole, as those that goe downe into the pit:

13 Wee shall finde all precious substance, wee shall fill our houses with spoile:

14 Cast in thy lot among vs, let vs all haue one purse:

15 My sonne, walke not thou in the way with them; refraine thy foot from their path:

16 For their feete runne to euil, and make haste to shed blood.

17 Surely in vaine the net is spread in the sight of any bird.

18 And they lay wait for their owne blood, they lurke priuily for their owne liues.

19 So are the waies of euery one that is greedie of gaine: which taketh away the life of the owners thereof.

20 ¶ Wisedome crieth without, she vttereth her voice in the streets:

21 Shee crieth in the chiefe place of concourse, in the openings of the gates: in the city she vttereth her words, saying,

22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye loue simplicitie? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fooles hate knowledge?

23 Turne you at my reproofe: behold, I will powre out my spirit vnto you, I will make knowen my wordes vnto you.

24 ¶ Because I haue called, and yee refused, I haue stretched out my hand, and no man regarded:

25 But ye haue set at nought all my counsell, & would none of my reproofe:

26 I also will laugh at your calamitie, I wil mocke when your feare commeth.

27 When your feare commeth as desolation, and your destruction commeth as a whirlewinde; when distresse and anguish commeth vpon you:

28 Then shall they call vpon mee, but I will not answere; they shall seeke me early, but they shall not finde me:

29 For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the feare of the Lord.

30 They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproofe.

31 Therefore shall they eate of the fruite of their owne way, and be filled with their owne deuices.

32 For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fooles shall destroy them.

33 But who so hearkneth vnto mee, shall dwell safely, and shall be quiet from feare of euill.
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There is a difference between being proud and being conceited

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#3243118 - 05/09/13 07:35 PM Re: Bible Question [Re: Bowdacious]
TX300mag
Pea Picker
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Most all are useful, NONE are perfect. I use KJV, NKJV, NIV, NASB, ASV, and ESV to study. I probably prefer the ESV a little more as it's a little more literal than others yet very easy to read.
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#3243128 - 05/09/13 08:03 PM Re: Bible Question [Re: TX300mag]
JQT
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I'm certainly not a KJV or nothing person, but I prefer the KJV. I enjoy the way it's written. I use a KJV and a Strong's concordance.

I don't understand it all and honestly don't practice all I understand. I think that's a bigger issue with Christians. If we obeyed & practiced the part we understand, we would no doubt walk closer to God.

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#3243220 - 05/09/13 09:38 PM Re: Bible Question [Re: JQT]
EastTNHunter
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Wow, this is a touchy subject for some. Bowdacious is right on with her assessment of the 1611 vs the 1627 and newer KJVs (including even more recent revisions to the ones that most people hold). Also, the reason for some of the differences in the KJV and the "newer" translations (NIV, NASB, ESV, etc.), is that they use different texts. In 1611, the KJV was translated from some majority texts in Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic, but also much of it was translated from the Latin Vulgate where "holes had to be filled in." There was also quite a bit of influence in some of the Latin Vulgate from the Catholic Church, which is a whole 'nother story.

One must realize that with modern archaeology, older versions of original texts have been found. The older versions (minority texts), although fewer in number, tend to be relied upon as more accurate since they had less chance of having clerical errors in the tedious handwritten process. Many of these minority texts are used in the more recent translations, yet, with rare exception of some liberal bastardized versions, no foundational doctrinal difference is made.

If you have questions (as I did), I challenge you to read into the history of how we got the Bible in the way that we do. It will really encourage and strengthen your Faith, but will also probably challenge many beliefs that are often based on tradition, not absolute truth. I was a Christian who thought that I was well versed in the Bible and extraBiblical history, until I was challenged to dig deeper. I found many things that Lee Strobel talks about in "The Case for Christ" to be very helpful, as well as writings and history from many Bible scholars on both sides of the great KJV debate. Unfortunately, many people would rather live by the philosophy of "don't bother me with the facts because I already have my mind made up."

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#3243223 - 05/09/13 09:40 PM Re: Bible Question [Re: JQT]
EastTNHunter
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 Originally Posted By: JQT
I'm certainly not a KJV or nothing person, but I prefer the KJV. I enjoy the way it's written. I use a KJV and a Strong's concordance.


Even though I usually use a different translation in study, I also use the Strong's for reference, as much of my Bible study and memorization growing up was in the KJV, so that is how I recall it. I still find the poetic "meter" of the KJV easier to memorize for some reason.


Edited by EastTNHunter (05/09/13 09:41 PM)

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#3243316 - 05/10/13 06:06 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: Poser]
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 Originally Posted By: Poser
 Originally Posted By: Deer Assassin
king james version or nothing IMO

I agree with Crow the other versions are lacking and take out important words


I'm not necessarily defending the "modern translations", but, again, I ask the question, could you not say the same thing about the KJ version? Did it not take out and/or change important or potentially important words?


I often disagree with Crow but here I am 100 % agreeable with his opinion :

Acts (KJV) 5 : 34Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space;

35And said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men.

36For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought.

37After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, even as many as obeyed him, were dispersed.

38And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:

39But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.

I do beleive the King James version has spiritual authority behind it but my advice would be to pray about it and let the Lord lead you as I did ! Just opinions so let us please be civil .
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#3243325 - 05/10/13 06:32 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: Snake]
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I grew up with the KJV, but did own one of the newer (back then)translations as a teenager and read both cover to cover multiple times. I still own the KJV , but not the other.

These days, when I need to reference a certain topic, I go through the internet to find the verse, then go to the verse in the KJV. I can usually remember reading something but maybe not the exact verse or even book, so the internet is very helpful to me.

I think that it is good to have many versions since even today I find it much more difficult to read and understand the KJV. If a newer more modern version reaches more kids, then isn't that a good thing?

I guess the KJV adds a bit of historical significance in the way it is worded but isn't the main message what is important and if a child puts down a KJV because he or she finds it hard to read, then doesn't that defeat the purpose?

Isn't it about the message and not the messenger...?
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#3243355 - 05/10/13 07:18 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: Bottom Hunter]
Snake
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 Originally Posted By: Bottom Hunter
I grew up with the KJV, but did own one of the newer (back then)translations as a teenager and read both cover to cover multiple times. I still own the KJV , but not the other.

These days, when I need to reference a certain topic, I go through the internet to find the verse, then go to the verse in the KJV. I can usually remember reading something but maybe not the exact verse or even book, so the internet is very helpful to me.

I think that it is good to have many versions since even today I find it much more difficult to read and understand the KJV. If a newer more modern version reaches more kids, then isn't that a good thing?

I guess the KJV adds a bit of historical significance in the way it is worded but isn't the main message what is important and if a child puts down a KJV because he or she finds it hard to read, then doesn't that defeat the purpose?

Isn't it about the message and not the messenger...?


True unless the message is distorted BH :
Matthew 7 : 13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

This scripture had ought to trouble every Christian because many are going to go the wrong way !







1 John (KJV) 4 : 1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.


Edited by Snake (05/10/13 07:18 AM)
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#3243375 - 05/10/13 07:43 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: Snake]
encore06
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Like many on here, I grew up reading and studying out of the KJV, but my carry bible is now the NKJV. Some have mention Bible Gateway, which I totally agree is an awesome resource. I have the link on my toolbar and find the daily scripture, devotions, and the ability to read the scripture in various translation unparalleled. The Amplifed Bible is another translation that I enjoy reading from. The key, I believe, is to remember the context in which a given text was written, and to read the verses preceding and following, as a verse out of context or alone, may give the reader/hearer the wrong impression. Study, study, study, followed by pray, pray, and pray more.
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#3243404 - 05/10/13 08:12 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: encore06]
Crow Terminator
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The 1611 and 1627 edition KJV are the same Bible. There was no revision or re-translation to the text other than basically proof reading and fixing grammatical errors. There was no revising it to delete X amount of verses or to make it less offensive to people at the time. It is still the Authorized King James Bible...just the same as the later revision took those doggone Roman numerals out of it, and made it standard numbers LOL. I have a Bible from the 1800s that is all Roman numeral numbers.

The one thing to not be mistaken about though is to not think the modern newer versions out there are simply the KJV that has been made easier to understand. A lot of these other versions are translations taken from some crazy texts and totally different stuff. Remember...for every good thing that God has for us humans...Satan has a counterfeit for. Some things may look like a Bible and kind of have the same sound as the Bible...but it ain't a real Bible. When you look at the 23 Psalm in KJV...it just has power about it on it's own.

1. The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.

2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.

3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.

6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever.

VS the NIV of the same:

1 The Lord is my shepherd, I lack nothing.

2 He makes me lie down in green pastures, he leads me beside quiet waters,

3 he refreshes my soul. He guides me along the right paths for his name’s sake.

4 Even though I walk through the darkest valley,[a]
I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me.

5 You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies.
You anoint my head with oil; my cup overflows.

6 Surely your goodness and love will follow me all the days of my life, and I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever.

------------

I don't know about you, but to me, one just speaks with POWER behind it. Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death...I will fear no evil: for thou art with me. That has POWER and AUTHORITY behind it. There's a big difference between walking through the valley of the shadow of death...and walking through the darkest valley. It lacks the power. Like trying to take a Prius through a mudhole.

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#3243421 - 05/10/13 08:28 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: Crow Terminator]
encore06
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CT, not to cause a stir or anything, but reading Psalms 23 from the Amplified Bible, doesn't take away, but rather adds understanding.

Psalm 23
Amplified Bible (AMP)
Psalm 23

A Psalm of David.

1 The Lord is my Shepherd [to feed, guide, and shield me], I shall not lack.
2 He makes me lie down in [fresh, tender] green pastures; He leads me beside the still and restful waters.
3 He refreshes and restores my life (my self); He leads me in the paths of righteousness [uprightness and right standing with Him—not for my earning it, but] for His name’s sake.
4 Yes, though I walk through the [deep, sunless] valley of the shadow of death, I will fear or dread no evil, for You are with me; Your rod [to protect] and Your staff [to guide], they comfort me.
5 You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies. You anoint my head with [a]oil; my [brimming] cup runs over.
6 Surely or only goodness, mercy, and unfailing love shall follow me all the days of my life, and through the length of my days the house of the Lord [and His presence] shall be my dwelling place.
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#3243435 - 05/10/13 08:46 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: Crow Terminator]
PMC, certified
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 Originally Posted By: Crow Terminator
King James here. Be very careful with new modern translations...they can take something and make it mean something totally different and you will miss a good blessing because of it. Take one of my favorite verses for example. Isaiah 40:31 KJV:

"But they that WAIT upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint."

vs the NIV version of the same:

"But those who HOPE in the Lord will renew their strength.
They will soar on wings like eagles; they will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not be faint."

Note what I capitalized in both of them...KJV says they that WAIT upon the Lord. NIV says those who HOPE. There's a big difference in WAITING upon the Lord and HOPING in something. The word WAIT actually does not mean what you might think it does...the word it is translated from is actually about serving the Lord ....like a waiter or waitress at a place to eat...i.e. they wait on you. It's not about patiently waiting as in a passing of time. It's about servitude...those that Wait upon the Lord he continually renews their strength. What makes a good waiter? Well it's one that never lets you run out of things...their job while you are there as the guest, is to be Johnny on the spot and take good care of your wants...more food, more drinks, etc. The Lord just wants you to serve Him and if you do such, he will take care of you and renew your strength. That's how some evangelists can preach 50+ weeks out of the year and never grow tired.

There's a bunch of differences like that between the versions...with totally different meanings as to what it's suppose to be. Especially when some versions say a "young woman" shall conceive instead of a virgin. There are lots of young women that aren't virgins...but the virgin birth is essential to the life of Christ and salvation and has been eliminated in versions like the RSV and a few others.



I disagree with your assertion that the word translated wait means to serve like a waiter at a restaurant. The word translated wait in Isaiah 40:31 is the hebrew word qavah. You can find it defined in Strong's Dictionary under entry 6960.

It is used 49 times in the old testament
wait 29, look 13, wait for 1, look for 1, gathered 1, misc 4
Definition
1) to wait, look for, hope, expect
a) (Qal) waiting (participle)
b) (Piel)
1) to wait or look eagerly for
2) to lie in wait for
3) to wait for, linger for
2) to collect, bind together
a) (Niphal) to be collected

Some examples

Gen 1:9 KJV - And God said , Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together[6960] unto one place, and let the dry [land] appear : and it was so.
Gen 49:18 KJV - I have waited for[6960] thy salvation, O LORD.
Job 3:9 KJV - Let the stars of the twilight thereof be dark ; let it look[6960] for light, but [have] none; neither let it see the dawning of the day:
Job 6:19 KJV - The troops of Tema looked , the companies of Sheba waited[6960] for them.
Job 7:2 KJV - As a servant earnestly desireth the shadow, and as an hireling looketh[6960] for [the reward of] his work:
Job 17:13 KJV - If I wait[6960] , the grave [is] mine house: I have made my bed in the darkness.
Psa 25:3 KJV - Yea, let none that wait[6960] on thee be ashamed : let them be ashamed which transgress without cause.
Psa 25:5 KJV - Lead me in thy truth, and teach me: for thou [art] the God of my salvation; on thee do I wait[6960] all the day.
Psa 25:21 KJV - Let integrity and uprightness preserve me; for I wait[6960] on thee.
Psa 27:14 KJV - Wait[6960] on the LORD: be of good courage , and he shall strengthen thine heart: wait[6960] , I say, on the LORD.
Psa 119:95 KJV - The wicked have waited[6960] for me to destroy me: [but] I will consider thy testimonies.
Isa 5:2 KJV - And he fenced it, and gathered out the stones thereof, and planted it with the choicest vine, and built a tower in the midst of it, and also made a winepress therein: and he looked[6960] that it should bring forth grapes, and it brought forth wild grapes.
Isa 5:4 KJV - What could have been done more to my vineyard, that I have not done in it? wherefore, when I looked[6960] that it should bring forth grapes, brought it forth wild grapes?
Isa 5:7 KJV - For the vineyard of the LORD of hosts [is] the house of Israel, and the men of Judah his pleasant plant: and he looked[6960] for judgment, but behold oppression; for righteousness, but behold a cry.
Isa 40:31 KJV - But they that wait[6960] upon the LORD shall renew [their] strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run , and not be weary ; [and] they shall walk , and not faint .


It is very important to note that the KJV is translated from the vulgate (Latin)as was posted earlier.

Please if you are going to discuss the definitions of words look at how the words are used in the original language in the scripture. To say it means something in that one location that it does not mean everywhere else it is used is simply not accurate. Much the same as the almah in Isaiah 7:14. But that is a separate discussion.

To answer the OP's question we live in the golden age to study the bible. The resources available to the common man were simply not available in the past. If you like the KJV, that's fine. Please do not limit yourself however. Some great resources include biblegateway.com and blueletterbible.com . You can look at the text in the actual language there and cross reference in all types of ways to clearly understand the word.
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#3243653 - 05/10/13 01:22 PM Re: Bible Question [Re: Crow Terminator]
Bowdacious
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 Originally Posted By: Crow Terminator
The 1611 and 1627 edition KJV are the same Bible. There was no revision or re-translation to the text other than basically proof reading and fixing grammatical errors. There was no revising it to delete X amount of verses or to make it less offensive to people at the time. It is still the Authorized King James Bible...just the same as the later revision took those doggone Roman numerals out of it, and made it standard numbers LOL. I have a Bible from the 1800s that is all Roman numeral numbers.

The one thing to not be mistaken about though is to not think the modern newer versions out there are simply the KJV that has been made easier to understand. A lot of these other versions are translations taken from some crazy texts and totally different stuff. Remember...for every good thing that God has for us humans...Satan has a counterfeit for. Some things may look like a Bible and kind of have the same sound as the Bible...but it ain't a real Bible. When you look at the 23 Psalm in KJV...it just has power about it on it's own.

1. The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.

2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.

3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.

6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever.

VS the NIV of the same:

1 The Lord is my shepherd, I lack nothing.

2 He makes me lie down in green pastures, he leads me beside quiet waters,

3 he refreshes my soul. He guides me along the right paths for his name’s sake.

4 Even though I walk through the darkest valley,[a]
I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me.

5 You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies.
You anoint my head with oil; my cup overflows.

6 Surely your goodness and love will follow me all the days of my life, and I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever.

------------

I don't know about you, but to me, one just speaks with POWER behind it. Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death...I will fear no evil: for thou art with me. That has POWER and AUTHORITY behind it. There's a big difference between walking through the valley of the shadow of death...and walking through the darkest valley. It lacks the power. Like trying to take a Prius through a mudhole.


My point is that changes were made. They were made again in 1769. True translations done by God fearing scholars via prayer and Divine guidance shouldn't be condemned. If it helps the reader understand and causes him to spend time in God's word, I see no downside. I enjoy all of mine.
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#3243795 - 05/10/13 04:15 PM Re: Bible Question [Re: Bayou Buck]
knightrider
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kjv is it!!! all I will preach from ,read, or listen to someone else preach from!!! you better be carefull with these new versions, you change just a few words and the devil becomes the master? for those who say they cant understand it as you read pray for understanding and dig in the word, if you will get a kjv study holiman bible and pray for understanding and have an open line of communication with the one and only GOD you will have no trouble understanding!!
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#3243799 - 05/10/13 04:21 PM Re: Bible Question [Re: knightrider]
TX300mag
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Sooooooooooooo
Was there an acceptable Bible the 1500+ years before the KJV? ???
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#3243837 - 05/10/13 05:39 PM Re: Bible Question [Re: ]
TX300mag
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Romans 10:17 says "So faith comes through hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ."

According to the Bible to state that someone must be saved BEFORE they can understand God's wouldn't be correct.

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#3243896 - 05/10/13 07:22 PM Re: Bible Question [Re: Bayou Buck]
BIGB
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ESV
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#3243913 - 05/10/13 07:39 PM Re: Bible Question [Re: SilverFox]
Boone 58
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The living bible can be purchased as a side by side version for the king james. I do not like the old english talk of the king james and love the Living bibles flow and ease of reading and understanding.
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#3244101 - 05/11/13 12:21 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: Boone 58]
Crow Terminator
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I highly recommend this book called "New Age Bible Versions":

http://www.amazon.com/New-Age-Bible-Vers...+bible+versions

Whatever the case is...the Bible truly fascinates me. It is easy enough that children can understand things of it and read it daily. And yet complex enough that I doubt you could finish getting everything out of it in 10 lifetimes of study and having every PhD of theology and doctrine that you could get in that time. How many times have you read something and passed right over it and never gave it much thought? Then one day you're studying and BAM, something jump out at you from something you've read hundreds of times? That's just how it works. There's something in it for the young Christian...(sincere milk) and there's something in it for the longtime oldtime Christian (meat). It can make a lost person found...give comfort to a dying person...give hope to others....security to others...amazing. A lamp unto my feet and light unto my path.

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#3244195 - 05/11/13 08:42 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: Crow Terminator]
EastTNHunter
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 Originally Posted By: Crow Terminator
I highly recommend this book called "New Age Bible Versions":

http://www.amazon.com/New-Age-Bible-Vers...+bible+versions


Really? This is akin to the rock n' roll back-tracking or something. The whole Luciferian stuff is so off base that anyone with any knowledge of Hebrew can tell that it is a total farce, as the name "Lucifer" means "star of the morning," as he was a very beautiful angel before being thrown from heaven. This stuff holds no water at all.

 Originally Posted By: Crow Terminator
Whatever the case is...the Bible truly fascinates me. It is easy enough that children can understand things of it and read it daily. And yet complex enough that I doubt you could finish getting everything out of it in 10 lifetimes of study and having every PhD of theology and doctrine that you could get in that time. How many times have you read something and passed right over it and never gave it much thought? Then one day you're studying and BAM, something jump out at you from something you've read hundreds of times?


I agree with you 100% on this. But the Bible itself says that "you shall find the Truth and the Truth will set you free." The truth is enough and does not need sensationalism to get people to believe it. The history and facts of the Bible speak for themselves and should not be run from, but they show that the Holy Scriptures are accurate and true and will stand the test of time. Before the 1611 KJV there were other versions from other languages, including the Latin Vulgate, taken from the Textus Receptus (majority texts), of which much of the KJV was translated from, making making many parts of it a translation of a translation, not a true translation. With all of this being said, it is accurate and should not be done away with. No one that I have read in this entire thread has suggested that the KJV should be done away with.

I learned much of this through research after being challenged by a KJV thumper who told me that I was going to Hell because I read an NIV, which was not the "original" Authorized 1611 KJV that the good old apostle Paul used to use. Needless to say, he was totally wrong.

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#3244234 - 05/11/13 09:50 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: Deer Assassin]
farmin68
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 Originally Posted By: Deer Assassin
king james version or nothing IMO

I agree with Crow the other versions are lacking and take out important words


I'm with Crow and DA. Reading a translation other than the KJV can be dangerous. I believe the KJV was divinely inspired and has certainly held up to scrutiny for a few decades.

Notice there is no copyright on the KJV. In order for a translation to be eligible for copyright, it HAS TO DIFFER SUBSTANTIALLY FROM THE KJV. Now, I'm not saying every translation has been published with profit as the primary objective, but if I'm applying for a copyright on a product, I know what my motivation would be.

Be careful.
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#3244235 - 05/11/13 09:53 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: farmin68]
farmin68
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Can't remember which translation it is, but it is one of the most popular ones. A woman who was one of four people involved in the translation confessed to intentionally changing some of her translation (which ended up in circulation) to to suit her women's rights agenda.

KJV for me.
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#3244237 - 05/11/13 09:56 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: Goat]
farmin68
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 Originally Posted By: Goat
I encourage everyone, believers and non-believers, to read the book "Misquoting Jesus - the Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why" by Bart D. Ehrman.


Can you tell us a little more? You have my attention.
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#3244265 - 05/11/13 11:09 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: farmin68]
PMC, certified
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Too bad for the Mandarin chinese I guess
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#3244289 - 05/11/13 12:29 PM Re: Bible Question [Re: PMC, certified]
Bambi Buster
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 Originally Posted By: PMC, certified
Too bad for the Mandarin chinese I guess


...and the Spaniards and the Brazilians and the Germans and the French and the Norwegians and the Finnish and the Swahili and the................
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#3244324 - 05/11/13 01:42 PM Re: Bible Question [Re: EastTNHunter]
Crow Terminator
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EastTnHunter -- I'm taking it you have no clue what the book I recommended is about due to your ignorant comments. Read it before you bash it. What the book shows, is a side by side comparison of verses and words that have been changed and or omitted entirely in comparison to the King James Bible. I didn't start my walk as a saved person with a King James Bible by the way. I didn't know one from the other. I started my journey with an NIV to be honest with you. It wasn't until I began my own studying and begin talking to preachers that helped me along the way that I went to the King James Bible and saw how weak the NIV was in comparison to it. It was a personal conviction of mine that made me shun it.
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#3244346 - 05/11/13 02:35 PM Re: Bible Question [Re: Crow Terminator]
EastTNHunter
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The statements that I made were based on the description of the book written by the author. I was simply responding to what I read about the agenda that the author of this book was pushing based on the comments written about it, which are very common misrepresentations of the versions other than KJV. The Luciferian argument that he used is weak and shows an obvious ignorance of the scriptures. Also, since he references the "authors" of the other translations (in general), it must be noted that King James, who commissioned the KJV, was not known as a man of high moral quality or Christian virtue, if this makes any difference at all.

The omissions that I am sure that are referred to are a totally different story, and would have to be handled passage by passage, but these do not sacrifice a single foundational doctrine in the scriptures. One would have to have a full-blown discussion of text types and clerical traditions of ancient monks who transcribed the texts by hand to really get into that.

Just curious, do you use the 1611 version of the KJV that includes that apocrypha, as this is the true "authorized" and version and has been removed from all protestant translations.

I appreciate your preference for the KJV, and will not tell you that you are wrong for using it. I just find it hard to stomach when I hear people assume that all new translations are bastardized and change the words to promote an agenda, and that they should not be used. Also, to state that I or any other person is wrong for using another version is wrong will elicit a response, but I stated facts about the history of the KJV, not just a preference. I feel that a Christian should use discernment when choosing which translation to use, and they should not use one that sacrifices a single foundational doctrine of Christianity, and trust me, these versions do exist.



Edited by EastTNHunter (05/11/13 02:38 PM)

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#3244409 - 05/11/13 05:10 PM Re: Bible Question [Re: EastTNHunter]
PMC, certified
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Lucifer - from the latin lux ferro - light bearer. Actually the Hebrew word heylel
Strongs H1966

1) shining one, morning star, Lucifer
a) of the king of Babylon and Satan (fig.)
2) (TWOT) 'Helel' describing the king of Babylon


An allegory for Nebuchadnezzar, King of Babylon.

From Isaiah 14

4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.

19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.

20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.

22 For I will rise up against them, saith the Lord of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the Lord.

23 I will also make it a possession for the bittern, and pools of water: and I will sweep it with the besom of destruction, saith the Lord of hosts.

24 The Lord of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand:

25 That I will break the Assyrian in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders.

26 This is the purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth: and this is the hand that is stretched out upon all the nations.

27 For the Lord of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul it? and his hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back?

28 In the year that king Ahaz died was this burden.



Edited by PMC, certified (05/11/13 05:19 PM)
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#3244453 - 05/11/13 06:47 PM Re: Bible Question [Re: PMC, certified]
JQT
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Hey what do you all think about hunting hogs with dogs?
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#3244678 - 05/12/13 05:55 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: JQT]
Snake
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 Originally Posted By: JQT
Hey what do you all think about hunting hogs with dogs?


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#3244704 - 05/12/13 07:29 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: EastTNHunter]
Crow Terminator
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 Originally Posted By: EastTNHunter
The Luciferian argument that he used is weak and shows an obvious ignorance of the scriptures.


You're probably right. I mean what would a university professor that has taught 17 different courses/authored 6 college textbooks, with a B.A., M.A., and M.F.A degrees with additional post grad study at Harvard and Cornell, know about scripture? Obviously their knowledge is less than some random guy from TN on a deer hunting forum. \:\)

Here's another great book to read...that you will probably dismiss because the author only has a few places he has studied at: Cavalry Bible Institute and Philadelphia College of Bible, earning a B.S. in Pastoral Theology and M. Ed in Christian Education at Hyles-Anderson College. Also has a D.D. from Anchor Baptist Bible College and holds a Th. M. in English Bible from the Baptist International School of Theology and a Ph. D. in History from Baptist International Seminary.

http://www.amazon.com/Final-Authority-Christians-Guide-James/dp/0962880914

So tell me again what your Biblical study credits were?


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#3244714 - 05/12/13 08:01 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: Crow Terminator]
Kimber45 Moderator
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Well, I'm heading out to church in a few with my IPad and newly downloaded NKJV... If I get a moment, given its Mother's Day he'll be BUSY today, I'm going to talk with our pastor about this as well..
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#3244717 - 05/12/13 08:07 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: Crow Terminator]
EastTNHunter
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If this all of a sudden becomes an argument about who has the Biblical study credits, we both will probably lose. There are people on both sides of the debate who have massive credentials, and if that is the only standard then look at the credentials of the translators of some of the versions of the Bibles that we are talking about. I am positive that you will find agendas on both sides. I went into this personal study with eyes wide open and without bias. I have spoken to and read the commentaries of many professors and Bible scholars from both sides while making my determinations, including someone who is very close to me who majored in Hebrew.

I am not attacking you; as I said I appreciate your preferences for the KJV. To me, you are also some random gut posting on a deer hunting forum, and I hold no personal animosity or resentment toward you. I am only trying to state that the other versions that you are attacking have merit, and if someone is stating that they are having a hard time understanding the KJV, then another version is a great and accurate tool to use. I would like to encourage anyone with questions to do a study about the history and efficacy of the scriptures and make their own determinations.

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#3244719 - 05/12/13 08:11 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: Crow Terminator]
Bottom Hunter
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I agree with Rutman, completely.

If you have been here long at all, you know that I am skeptical of anything that man touches, including the Bible. I have always said that any relationship that I have with God is between myself and Him and thusly I am not a churchgoer, but do not fault others for doing so.

Anytime you have a go-between (so to speak) between you and God, then that sets up a chance for deception, a wolf in sheep's clothing, if you will. In my opinion, the best way for evil to affix itself to you is to appear to be anything but evil. What better way than through your religion.?

The Bible took around 1600 years to write. Record keeping must have been pretty hard back then with only paper to store records with. You have to keep in mind, also, that Scripture was being written only when God guided someone through inspiration, according to scholars. This means there were long stretches of time when no one was writing anything. For instance, there was over 400 years between the death of the last Old Testament prophet, and the coming of John the Baptist.

It seems to me that the greatest book ever written would include much more about the greatest man to ever live, but nothing was written about Jesus while he was alive. Instead, it was more than 50 years after his death that anything was written and historians believe that those men that wrote about Jesus never even knew HIM , but knew OF Jesus from stories they had heard. This is where much of my skepticism comes in, along with many other things I have read that I can not make sense of.

Like I have said here many times, in my opinion, your faith is your faith and should be treated that way. The best way to practice your faith is to have a one on one with your Savior. Becoming angry or discrediting others based on their faith is ridiculous simply because MAN has touched every single written document concerning religion. There in lies the possibility of deceit.

If you truly believe in the Bible , then you must realize that sin and deceit began in the Garden of Eden. That is why I only believe what I feel in my heart and I don't necessarily live my life by the book. Man wrote the Bible, all versions.

good luck with this...
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#3244752 - 05/12/13 08:54 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: Bottom Hunter]
buckaroo
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Sounds like I feel the same way as you Bottom Hunter, I have read the Bible several times and the more I read it the more confused I am. Also the Catholic church controled all the scriptures for hundreds of years and burned most of the ones they did'nt want in it, it is a little strange.
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#3244787 - 05/12/13 10:15 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: buckaroo]
Bottom Hunter
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 Originally Posted By: buckaroo
Sounds like I feel the same way as you Bottom Hunter, I have read the Bible several times and the more I read it the more confused I am. Also the Catholic church controled all the scriptures for hundreds of years and burned most of the ones they did'nt want in it, it is a little strange.



The Books of Moses were written in 1250 BC. Some scholars believe that Moses didn't write them. There were three different versions (all in different writing styles and all included text about Moses death) handed down through over 800 years before the three were compiled in to ONE single version. The thing is that most of the three texts were exact or similar , and those were the ones that made up the final text. Much like other books that were excluded from the final version of the Bible. If it didn't match, it was left out.

Luke wrote details about Jesus birth and life, yet none of his writings took place until about 60 years after the death of Jesus. Luke died at age 86, so there was simply no way that he wrote any of his books on Jesus , first hand. Even if he wrote these during his 86th year, he would have been in his 20's when Jesus died and not even born during Jesus's birth and childhood.

People much smarter than myself believe that very little if any of the Bible is first hand accounts, including the stories about Jesus ....Couple that with all the Greek Mythology out there, it just brings so much skepticism, in my opinion.

I truly believe that the individual has every right to think and believe what his mind and heart tells him. We should all respect that right and allow everyone to live the life that they deem appropriate. That is why I am not a strong purponent of religions that strive to "influence" ways of life (thusly strengthening their own faith)and not so much teach tolerance for everyone and other religions.

The only TRUTH about religion is that no one really knows, we can only believe what our hearts tell us. I urge everyone to follow their heart while they are here and live a good life, as they see fit. And as hard as it may be sometimes, please allow others the same privileges.

again, good luck to everyone.....!!!!!!



Edited by Bottom Hunter (05/12/13 10:18 AM)
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#3244793 - 05/12/13 10:29 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: Bottom Hunter]
buckaroo
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Good post
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#3244841 - 05/12/13 12:12 PM Re: Bible Question [Re: buckaroo]
Kimber45 Moderator
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Well, the NKJV I downloaded may very well help more of the true meanings soak thru the seeming mud thickened area of my brain based on some reading today...

For now, I think I'll stay with it.
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#3244869 - 05/12/13 01:09 PM Re: Bible Question [Re: Kimber45]
in the dog house!
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Let me start off saying the I am a Christian and believe that there is only one God, and the only way to the Father is through the Son, and that Jesus Christ died on the Cross for all of our sins.

Not to take anything from the Bible, but even as a young child I always thought " who the heck was King James, and who decided that we would use his version of the bible". As I got older and learned more about the Bible, and King James. It only lead me to more questions. I learned that the KJV has been revised 12 or 13 times since its first "printing" just over 400 years ago. And as stated in some above posts the canonization of the Bible was done 60 or 70 years after Jesus' death. In my minds eye I see the powers that be of that day sitting around with all the letters, going through them and saying " this one fits our agenda so it goes in this pile, this one doesn't so it goes in this pile". Who decided we didn't need to know about what happened to him during his upbringing........ Why where these letters left out..... Why were they hidden away in some cave for us to find at some later date. Why were the others destroyed..... Who decided all of this for US, the powers that be of the day did. Did they had there own agenda in mind when they made these decisions... As I understand it a group of powerful spiritual leaders gathered, and made the decisions, collectively.
It seems to me its not much different than the times we live in today, with the powers that be deciding what is best for the masses to know. There is a lot in the Bible that I don't understand, as far as why things are missing, why some things are took literally and others are considered exaggerations or parables. If we all as Christians worship the same God, why are there so many different religions.... Why do Churches split....... There are more fights, and deaths for that matter over the Bible. This is not what Jesus taught in any version of the Bible, but yet evokes strong enough feelings in people to break up families, communities, friends, and Churches, and even murder.
The devil, as my understanding creates strife and confusion among people to lead them away from God. As RUGER said the other day, where God is working you can believe the devil is right there trying to mislead and confuse to keep people from God. The real truth is no one really knows. Having said that, we do know what is good in our hearts, and that God is LOVE, this is the one thing we do know without a doubt. If it is of true LOVE than it is of God, If it is not of TRUE, PURE, LOVE, then it is not of God.

Sorry for such a long post. As always Im just trying to get to a better understanding of God. This, in my mind should not be so confusing. I can't think that this is what God would want for us.
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#3244871 - 05/12/13 01:21 PM Re: Bible Question [Re: in the dog house!]
SilverFox
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WOW...I leave for a few days and it goes wild. Still searching.
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#3244873 - 05/12/13 01:23 PM Re: Bible Question [Re: in the dog house!]
Kimber45 Moderator
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 Originally Posted By: in the dog house!
Let me start off saying the I am a Christian and believe that there is only one God, and the only way to the Father is through the Son, and that Jesus Christ died on the Cross for all of our sins.

Not to take anything from the Bible, but even as a young child I always thought " who the heck was King James, and who decided that we would use his version of the bible". As I got older and learned more about the Bible, and King James. It only lead me to more questions. I learned that the KJV has been revised 12 or 13 times since its first "printing" just over 400 years ago. And as stated in some above posts the canonization of the Bible was done 60 or 70 years after Jesus' death. In my minds eye I see the powers that be of that day sitting around with all the letters, going through them and saying " this one fits our agenda so it goes in this pile, this one doesn't so it goes in this pile". Who decided we didn't need to know about what happened to him during his upbringing........ Why where these letters left out..... Why were they hidden away in some cave for us to find at some later date. Why were the others destroyed..... Who decided all of this for US, the powers that be of the day did. Did they had there own agenda in mind when they made these decisions... As I understand it a group of powerful spiritual leaders gathered, and made the decisions, collectively.
It seems to me its not much different than the times we live in today, with the powers that be deciding what is best for the masses to know. There is a lot in the Bible that I don't understand, as far as why things are missing, why some things are took literally and others are considered exaggerations or parables. If we all as Christians worship the same God, why are there so many different religions.... Why do Churches split....... There are more fights, and deaths for that matter over the Bible. This is not what Jesus taught in any version of the Bible, but yet evokes strong enough feelings in people to break up families, communities, friends, and Churches, and even murder.
The devil, as my understanding creates strife and confusion among people to lead them away from God. As RUGER said the other day, where God is working you can believe the devil is right there trying to mislead and confuse to keep people from God. The real truth is no one really knows. Having said that, we do know what is good in our hearts, and that God is LOVE, this is the one thing we do know without a doubt. If it is of true LOVE than it is of God, If it is not of TRUE, PURE, LOVE, then it is not of God.

Sorry for such a long post. As always Im just trying to get to a better understanding of God. This, in my mind should not be so confusing. I can't think that this is what God would want for us.


Good post Chip
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#3245094 - 05/12/13 09:00 PM Re: Bible Question [Re: Kimber45]
in the dog house!
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Well....... \:\)
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#3245160 - 05/12/13 11:16 PM Re: Bible Question [Re: in the dog house!]
Crow Terminator
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As I said before, in my personal study on this subject, I was clueless to traditions, agendas, etc. I came into Christianity not being raised in church and in a non churchy family. They made it very hard on me at first; when I'd get up on Sunday to go to church and then back Sunday evenings and Wednesday nights. I didn't know one church for the other; I was just going to church. If I knew somebody at work that went to church somewhere, I was asking them where they went and would show up the next service no matter what name the sign said on the door. Looking back on it now, I firmly believe the Lord put people in my pathway to help guide and mentor me into where I am today.

One key person to this was Paul Grady. Aka Tikkashooter that posts here. Somebody I know had heard his dad preach and gotten a book of his for me...and I had began reading it. A subject on TnDeer came up and I had just read a chapter in that book on the same subject and quoted from it. Paul saw it and sent me a PM telling me who he was, and that it was his dad that had written the book. His dad is the author of the 2nd book I gave a link to in my last post (the guy with all the degrees). I've been to his dad's house a few times and Paul and his dad were very instrumental in showing me a lot of things. Paul and I have hunted together quite a bit over the years. I set him up for his first bow kill deer and his biggest muzzleloader buck to date in which I filmed for him and he filmed my first hog bow kill for me. There's much much more to this subject than what anybody could post and keep the attention span with just letters on a screen. Paul's dad has probably forgotten more on the subject than any of us can remember...that is to say if Paul's dad ever forgets anything which I don't think he has. He's like a living, walking, talking library. A man can argue with opinion but it's hard to dismiss facts about where a lot of this new age stuff came from. I know enough to know where I stand on the matter. If anybody wants to know more on it, I suggest getting in touch with Paul (tikkashooter) and they can help you more than I can. I've only been at it for 10 years....they've been in the battle for a lifetime.


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#3245572 - 05/13/13 04:04 PM Re: Bible Question [Re: Bayou Buck]
DKO77
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Registered: 03/29/13
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Hey guys , has anyone stopped to think that maybe there is a non-believer that has come across this thread and has read through the posts and thought , man is that all christians do is argue. There is a bigger battle going on other than which bible is best or whatever, yes I have my choice just like everyone else does but its not worth arguing over. Thats just the stuff satan will use to turn us as Christians away from what we should be doing . Theres plenty of stuff to argue over but while we are arguing people are dying and going to hell every day. I'm no perfect Christian by no means and don't witness any like I should but this really got me thinking. How are we spending our time and how do others see in us. People are really sensitive to the subject of salvation and if we step on somebody's toes about which bible they are using and that person is lost , it could be the deciding factor if that person turns to Christ or not. We may not know or see it but somebody is always watching, reading and listening to what we say and do. I hope this didn't make anyone mad , just something to think about. God Bless
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#3245587 - 05/13/13 04:30 PM Re: Bible Question [Re: Crow Terminator]
WestTn Huntin'man
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 Originally Posted By: Crow Terminator
As I said before, in my personal study on this subject, I was clueless to traditions, agendas, etc. I came into Christianity not being raised in church and in a non churchy family. They made it very hard on me at first; when I'd get up on Sunday to go to church and then back Sunday evenings and Wednesday nights. I didn't know one church for the other; I was just going to church. If I knew somebody at work that went to church somewhere, I was asking them where they went and would show up the next service no matter what name the sign said on the door. Looking back on it now, I firmly believe the Lord put people in my pathway to help guide and mentor me into where I am today.

One key person to this was Paul Grady. Aka Tikkashooter that posts here. Somebody I know had heard his dad preach and gotten a book of his for me...and I had began reading it. A subject on TnDeer came up and I had just read a chapter in that book on the same subject and quoted from it. Paul saw it and sent me a PM telling me who he was, and that it was his dad that had written the book. His dad is the author of the 2nd book I gave a link to in my last post (the guy with all the degrees). I've been to his dad's house a few times and Paul and his dad were very instrumental in showing me a lot of things. Paul and I have hunted together quite a bit over the years. I set him up for his first bow kill deer and his biggest muzzleloader buck to date in which I filmed for him and he filmed my first hog bow kill for me. There's much much more to this subject than what anybody could post and keep the attention span with just letters on a screen. Paul's dad has probably forgotten more on the subject than any of us can remember...that is to say if Paul's dad ever forgets anything which I don't think he has. He's like a living, walking, talking library. A man can argue with opinion but it's hard to dismiss facts about where a lot of this new age stuff came from. I know enough to know where I stand on the matter. If anybody wants to know more on it, I suggest getting in touch with Paul (tikkashooter) and they can help you more than I can. I've only been at it for 10 years....they've been in the battle for a lifetime.



Very inspiring post. Love hearing the lord is working thru Tndeer.
IMO not understanding the Bible is more reason to go to church and worship.Not understanding used to be my excuse.
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#3245641 - 05/13/13 06:09 PM Re: Bible Question [Re: DKO77]
Kimber45 Moderator
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 Originally Posted By: DKO77
Hey guys , has anyone stopped to think that maybe there is a non-believer that has come across this thread and has read through the posts and thought , man is that all christians do is argue. There is a bigger battle going on other than which bible is best or whatever, yes I have my choice just like everyone else does but its not worth arguing over. Thats just the stuff satan will use to turn us as Christians away from what we should be doing . Theres plenty of stuff to argue over but while we are arguing people are dying and going to hell every day. I'm no perfect Christian by no means and don't witness any like I should but this really got me thinking. How are we spending our time and how do others see in us. People are really sensitive to the subject of salvation and if we step on somebody's toes about which bible they are using and that person is lost , it could be the deciding factor if that person turns to Christ or not. We may not know or see it but somebody is always watching, reading and listening to what we say and do. I hope this didn't make anyone mad , just something to think about. God Bless


Good post and Good point!
_________________________
Patriotism is not short, frenzied outbursts of emotion, but the tranquil and steady dedication of a lifetime.

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#3245871 - 05/13/13 11:01 PM Re: Bible Question [Re: Kimber45]
gasman
8 Point


Registered: 07/21/11
Posts: 1460
Loc: South of the Hatchie

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As my pastor always says "if I can talk you into it, someone else can talk you out of it" use the Bible that YOU are comfortable with.
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Every time I fall, I get back up again; Cinch my saddle up, find me another wind.

Hunt Hard. Pray Harder.

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#3245874 - 05/13/13 11:19 PM Re: Bible Question [Re: Crow Terminator]
tikkashooter
8 Point


Registered: 08/23/01
Posts: 2407
Loc: Kingston, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Crow Terminator
 Originally Posted By: EastTNHunter
The Luciferian argument that he used is weak and shows an obvious ignorance of the scriptures.


You're probably right. I mean what would a university professor that has taught 17 different courses/authored 6 college textbooks, with a B.A., M.A., and M.F.A degrees with additional post grad study at Harvard and Cornell, know about scripture? Obviously their knowledge is less than some random guy from TN on a deer hunting forum. \:\)

Here's another great book to read...that you will probably dismiss because the author only has a few places he has studied at: Cavalry Bible Institute and Philadelphia College of Bible, earning a B.S. in Pastoral Theology and M. Ed in Christian Education at Hyles-Anderson College. Also has a D.D. from Anchor Baptist Bible College and holds a Th. M. in English Bible from the Baptist International School of Theology and a Ph. D. in History from Baptist International Seminary.

http://www.amazon.com/Final-Authority-Christians-Guide-James/dp/0962880914

So tell me again what your Biblical study credits were?

KJV ONLY for me... Crow I think I might know that second feller! He's got a 2nd book out on the KJV now.
_________________________
Speaking on Michael Jackson: "America is the only place where a poor black boy from Gary, IN, can grow up to be a rich white women from Los Angeles, CA!"

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#3245876 - 05/13/13 11:23 PM Re: Bible Question [Re: Crow Terminator]
tikkashooter
8 Point


Registered: 08/23/01
Posts: 2407
Loc: Kingston, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Crow Terminator
As I said before, in my personal study on this subject, I was clueless to traditions, agendas, etc. I came into Christianity not being raised in church and in a non churchy family. They made it very hard on me at first; when I'd get up on Sunday to go to church and then back Sunday evenings and Wednesday nights. I didn't know one church for the other; I was just going to church. If I knew somebody at work that went to church somewhere, I was asking them where they went and would show up the next service no matter what name the sign said on the door. Looking back on it now, I firmly believe the Lord put people in my pathway to help guide and mentor me into where I am today.

One key person to this was Paul Grady. Aka Tikkashooter that posts here. Somebody I know had heard his dad preach and gotten a book of his for me...and I had began reading it. A subject on TnDeer came up and I had just read a chapter in that book on the same subject and quoted from it. Paul saw it and sent me a PM telling me who he was, and that it was his dad that had written the book. His dad is the author of the 2nd book I gave a link to in my last post (the guy with all the degrees). I've been to his dad's house a few times and Paul and his dad were very instrumental in showing me a lot of things. Paul and I have hunted together quite a bit over the years. I set him up for his first bow kill deer and his biggest muzzleloader buck to date in which I filmed for him and he filmed my first hog bow kill for me. There's much much more to this subject than what anybody could post and keep the attention span with just letters on a screen. Paul's dad has probably forgotten more on the subject than any of us can remember...that is to say if Paul's dad ever forgets anything which I don't think he has. He's like a living, walking, talking library. A man can argue with opinion but it's hard to dismiss facts about where a lot of this new age stuff came from. I know enough to know where I stand on the matter. If anybody wants to know more on it, I suggest getting in touch with Paul (tikkashooter) and they can help you more than I can. I've only been at it for 10 years....they've been in the battle for a lifetime.



It's been an interesting read but I prefer not to debate stuff on here. Anybody who wants to discuss I am happy to oblige a phone call, just send me
a PM.
_________________________
Speaking on Michael Jackson: "America is the only place where a poor black boy from Gary, IN, can grow up to be a rich white women from Los Angeles, CA!"

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#3245911 - 05/14/13 05:00 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: Kimber45]
EastTNHunter
10 Point


Registered: 03/08/10
Posts: 3080
Loc: Rhea Co., TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Kimber45
 Originally Posted By: DKO77
Hey guys , has anyone stopped to think that maybe there is a non-believer that has come across this thread and has read through the posts and thought , man is that all christians do is argue. There is a bigger battle going on other than which bible is best or whatever, yes I have my choice just like everyone else does but its not worth arguing over. Thats just the stuff satan will use to turn us as Christians away from what we should be doing . Theres plenty of stuff to argue over but while we are arguing people are dying and going to hell every day. I'm no perfect Christian by no means and don't witness any like I should but this really got me thinking. How are we spending our time and how do others see in us. People are really sensitive to the subject of salvation and if we step on somebody's toes about which bible they are using and that person is lost , it could be the deciding factor if that person turns to Christ or not. We may not know or see it but somebody is always watching, reading and listening to what we say and do. I hope this didn't make anyone mad , just something to think about. God Bless


Good post and Good point!


You are exactly right. I came on too strong, didn't drop it as soon as I should have, and although I don't have issue with the information that I posted, it was done in the wrong place/fashion. These types of disagreements are best left for PMs, and for my part I apologize.

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#3245986 - 05/14/13 07:27 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: EastTNHunter]
Bottom Hunter
16 Point


Registered: 12/29/06
Posts: 16321
Loc: Hatchie Bottoms

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I am so pleased to see this thread going as it has. It's nice to see grown men behaving as such.

I too am a believer that if someone can change your mind, then you never had your mind made up afterall.....

good luck guys and follow your heart, nothing more.

thanks
_________________________
There are some people who always seem angry and continuously look for conflict.

Walk away; the battle they are fighting is not with you, but with themselves.

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#3246003 - 05/14/13 08:03 AM Re: Bible Question [Re: Bottom Hunter]
Crow Terminator
TnDeer Old Timer
14 Point


Registered: 10/23/99
Posts: 9023
Loc: McMinn County

Offline
There's been a good discussion in this thread but I wouldn't go so far as to call it an argument and unworthy of discussion.

The Sword is the only weapon of offense in a Christian's armory. The Sword being the word of God, aka our Bible. If you don't have confidence in the only offense weapon that you've got...you're not going to do so well. Sure, we have the shield of faith to protect us from the fiery darts of the devil...but sooner rather than later the devil is going to knock you down or push you into a corner if you never draw the Sword and swing it. All 3 times that Satan was tempting and coming after Jesus, Jesus rebuked him with the Word...."For it is written...". Hebrews tells us that the word of God is quick and powerful and sharper than any two edged sword. And it is quick and powerful....but its only good as a weapon against Satan if you use it in the first place.

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