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#3239450 - 05/05/13 12:23 PM Re: 2013 Harvest Comparison [Re: smstone22]
Lawrence
8 Point


Registered: 10/03/07
Posts: 1910
Loc: MT. Juliet Tennessee

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One thing I've never understood is tn continues to set spring quotas at 4 no matter how the previous hatch turns out.
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#3239475 - 05/05/13 12:48 PM Re: 2013 Harvest Comparison [Re: Boll Weevil]
Buzzard Breath
8 Point


Registered: 07/31/06
Posts: 1645
Loc: East

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 Originally Posted By: Boll Weevil
Anyone in an area with lots of poultry houses where litter/manure is now being spread as fertilizer (and it wasn't in the past)?

I'd heard from second hand sources that TWRA was investigating the effects of the chicken manure being spread on the fields in Lawrence County. I think they were looking into it causing liver damage. My FIL would spread it on his farm and several others in Lawrence County. It sure made for some fun coyote hunting. They would run around slurping up chicken bones like a vacuum cleaner. It wasn't uncommon to see a dozen of them on a morning's hunt. He has quit using chicken litter in the past couple years.

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#3239506 - 05/05/13 01:29 PM Re: 2013 Harvest Comparison [Re: Buzzard Breath]
smstone22
16 Point


Registered: 01/11/04
Posts: 16919
Loc: Allardt, TN

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Here you are Boll Weevil. LOADS of info here, you have to be really interested in it to read it all. It is when harvest exceeds 30% of the male population in Spring, I said it backwards initially I think. At a 60% spring harvest of males, they estimate no adult males will survive a Spring season in 8 of 40 years. This is due to the very high natural mortality rate of turkeys. If every turkey hunter was serious abotu conserving the population, they would clamoring for some form of reduced hunting. I like the 4 bird limit obviously but would love to see it put into units so some areas werent so hard hit. Heck it wouldnt really bother me if they just simply reduced it statewide because I know they like simple, but I would at least like the option of doing some travel to get the 4.
http://www.jstor.org/stable/3830761?seq=26
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#3239554 - 05/05/13 02:41 PM Re: 2013 Harvest Comparison [Re: smstone22]
muddyboots
12 Point


Registered: 11/06/02
Posts: 7085
Loc: savannah, tn., usa

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The hunting declined exactly as limits were increased. Coincidence or not???? I think not!
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#3239558 - 05/05/13 02:46 PM Re: 2013 Harvest Comparison [Re: muddyboots]
Wes Parrish
16 Point


Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 19297
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN

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 Originally Posted By: muddyboots
The hunting declined exactly as limits were increased.

Who would have thunk it.

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#3240163 - 05/06/13 08:23 AM Re: 2013 Harvest Comparison [Re: Boll Weevil]
woodsman87
8 Point


Registered: 09/27/12
Posts: 1306
Loc: south TN

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 Originally Posted By: Boll Weevil
Question for those that are hearing and seeing fewer birds: Has the landscape changed much in/around the areas you hunt over the last 6 years or so? Has there been much large scale timber logging, large tracts being subdivided, home building activity, tillable ground converted to CRP, or other significant changes in land-use? Anyone in an area with lots of poultry houses where litter/manure is now being spread as fertilizer (and it wasn't in the past)?


No they haven't in my spots. I hunt very low populated areas, and in the 90s early 2000s you saw turkeys in fields and pastures everyday.

I don't know if it is chicken litter, I have heard it is bad for turkeys, could possibly be the problem. I know with fertilizer prices very high, and chicken litter still cheap, could be what happened.
I still think more than anything else there has just been several consecutive bad hatches in these areas.

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#3240185 - 05/06/13 08:38 AM Re: 2013 Harvest Comparison [Re: smstone22]
woodsman87
8 Point


Registered: 09/27/12
Posts: 1306
Loc: south TN

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 Originally Posted By: smstone22
Here you are Boll Weevil. LOADS of info here, you have to be really interested in it to read it all. It is when harvest exceeds 30% of the male population in Spring, I said it backwards initially I think. At a 60% spring harvest of males, they estimate no adult males will survive a Spring season in 8 of 40 years. This is due to the very high natural mortality rate of turkeys. If every turkey hunter was serious abotu conserving the population, they would clamoring for some form of reduced hunting. I like the 4 bird limit obviously but would love to see it put into units so some areas werent so hard hit. Heck it wouldnt really bother me if they just simply reduced it statewide because I know they like simple, but I would at least like the option of doing some travel to get the 4.
http://www.jstor.org/stable/3830761?seq=26


I just read the abstract and really liked it. It looks like we need to lower harvest limits in the southern-midstate ( Lincon, Giles, Lawrence, Wayne) And I believe for the most part this should south of Highway 64.
If the TWRA does decide to go to units, I think this should be one. Limit of 3 maybe 2 gobblers. And combine fall and spring into one season, or just do away with the fall season all together.
I do not agree with all the hen killing we have in some of these areas, and I think it should be abandonded statewide.

The units also may need to be updated, or changed, anually.

I am for anything that will increase the quality of turkey hunting. I want it to be like it once was.

Another point is feeding corn to wildlife. I do not do so, because I don't think it helps for one thing, but there was a thread on the serious deer forum last week about some "deer corn" that was recalled due to toxic chemicals. I wonder if that has had anyhting to do with it, since game feeders and gettting pictures on game cameras have become such a cool thing to do the past about 10 years.
Maybe feeding corn should be outlawed completely?

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#3240332 - 05/06/13 11:50 AM Re: 2013 Harvest Comparison [Re: smstone22]
Boll Weevil
8 Point


Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 1226
Loc: Hardeman

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Thanks very much for sending the link.

In the past, I had always felt ok removing about "a 1/3rd of what I heard" as a general rule. If during my spring scouting/listening I heard 8 or 9 gobblers leading up the season I felt ok setting a target of 3 for that property. That rule has at least kept me in the birds year after year regardless of hatch success.

Based upon my research, average recruitment has fallen to only about 2 poults per hen. If they are 50% jakes, I need at least 4 hens to raise a clutch successfully and replace what I killed every year. Throw in a bobcat, yote, neighboring property harvest, disease, or other mortality factors and it's esy to see why it doesn't always make sense for me to kill 4 on my place each and every year. It's just not sustainable.

Fortunately last year's bumper crop of poults is really going to help, but there are some other things I'm doing from a habitat managet perspective to hopefully benefit recruitment and survival. I'll try and find that research I reviewed recently and post a link here.

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#3240338 - 05/06/13 12:03 PM Re: 2013 Harvest Comparison [Re: Boll Weevil]
woodsman87
8 Point


Registered: 09/27/12
Posts: 1306
Loc: south TN

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Fortunately last year's bumper crop of poults is really going to help, but there are some other things I'm doing from a habitat managet perspective to hopefully benefit recruitment and survival. [/quote]

If you dont mind, how do you know that it was a good hatch year? The answer maybe obvious, "I see alot of poults." The reason why I ask is because I very rarely see poults. I always think that a few hens next on my property, and even though I never see them doesn't mean they aren't there. I am not one to go walking through the fields and woods during the summer time. But just driving down the road in general, I do not see any. I live in one of the parts that is having the severe decline, and I wonder if that has anything to do with me never seeing any poults, becuase there are none to see? I don't run game cameras enough to see how many I have either.

I don't really base my hatches on how many I see, I just see what kinda weather we had during the hatching time, late May-Mid June is when I think most hatch in my areas. Even though I have still only saw few poults, I estimated last spring to have a good hatch because it was dry during the late spring and early summer.
I am no biologist, I may be totally wrong.

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#3240342 - 05/06/13 12:07 PM Re: 2013 Harvest Comparison [Re: Boll Weevil]
smstone22
16 Point


Registered: 01/11/04
Posts: 16919
Loc: Allardt, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Boll Weevil
Thanks very much for sending the link.

In the past, I had always felt ok removing about "a 1/3rd of what I heard" as a general rule. If during my spring scouting/listening I heard 8 or 9 gobblers leading up the season I felt ok setting a target of 3 for that property. That rule has at least kept me in the birds year after year regardless of hatch success.

Fortunately last year's bumper crop of poults is really going to help, but there are some other things I'm doing from a habitat managet perspective to hopefully benefit recruitment and survival.



Good deal, thats pretty well what I do for my property as well. When I just had 1-2 gobblers there in the Spring, I didnt take any. When it started getting over 3, I started taking 1 a year for a couple of years. The population just kept growing, and this year I had about 8 gobblers and several jakes running around pretty regular. I took 2 of those. And Im in a county with a low harvest, I see people on here complaining alot about Lawrence Co., heck my county is like a 100 birds behind them! lol But you can build a good population, just with proper management.
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