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#3236933 - 05/02/13 08:06 AM Re: Rural King deer feed recall [Re: Wes Parrish]
Bone Collector
14 Point


Registered: 09/09/09
Posts: 8914
Loc: Murfreesboro, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Wes Parrish
 Originally Posted By: Diehard Hunter
 Originally Posted By: Bone Collector
 Originally Posted By: Diehard Hunter
It is also well documented that aflatoxin infected corn can have a dramatic effect on survival in turkeys, especially the poults.

Yet another reason I would like to see feeding of all wildlife outlawed unless you are within 50yds of your personal dwelling.

What difference would that make. it is either bad for them or not.

It would allow people to have bird feeders, but no one would be running trail cams or hunting over it. . . . . . . . The prospect of outlawing bird feeders would bring all the little old ladies that like to watch birds in their back yard out of the wood work.

BTW, it is also well documented that bird feeders are terrible for song birds, but you can't fight the entire populace at once now can you?

x 2

My opinion has only become stronger over time, that those who regularly "feed" deer corn (per feeders or scattering on the ground), and talking specifically about TENNESSEE, are doing more harm than good, both to "their" deer (and turkey), and to their ability to become better hunters. Show me a guy hunting over a corn pile, and I'll show you a guy who is more a shooter than a hunter, and he's sabotaging his own opportunity to become a more accomplished hunter.

There is another issue that few have considered: Increased predation that comes when one regularly feeds wildlife in a specific spot. Having a deer feeder out in the woods is a great way to lose more button bucks to bobcat, dog, and coyote predation ----- and you'll never know about most of your losses.


I put some out last year after season as it was the first time i have ever run cameras and the best way i had heard of to get deer to the camera. I noticed once I started putting it out, and the small critters showed up, the bobcats, and coyotes showed up as well. I have been doing more research and will be going away from it.

Is there anything other that minerals you guys recommend for cataloging purposes?
_________________________
Semper Fidelis!

“There are hunters and there are victims. By your discipline, cunning, obedience and alertness, you will decide if you are a hunter or a victim.”
General James Mattis

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#3236971 - 05/02/13 08:46 AM Re: Rural King deer feed recall [Re: Bone Collector]
Diehard Hunter
CRAMP
12 Point


Registered: 08/01/08
Posts: 6778
Loc: East Tennessee

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 Originally Posted By: Bone Collector
 Originally Posted By: Wes Parrish
 Originally Posted By: Diehard Hunter
 Originally Posted By: Bone Collector
 Originally Posted By: Diehard Hunter
It is also well documented that aflatoxin infected corn can have a dramatic effect on survival in turkeys, especially the poults.

Yet another reason I would like to see feeding of all wildlife outlawed unless you are within 50yds of your personal dwelling.

What difference would that make. it is either bad for them or not.

It would allow people to have bird feeders, but no one would be running trail cams or hunting over it. . . . . . . . The prospect of outlawing bird feeders would bring all the little old ladies that like to watch birds in their back yard out of the wood work.

BTW, it is also well documented that bird feeders are terrible for song birds, but you can't fight the entire populace at once now can you?

x 2

My opinion has only become stronger over time, that those who regularly "feed" deer corn (per feeders or scattering on the ground), and talking specifically about TENNESSEE, are doing more harm than good, both to "their" deer (and turkey), and to their ability to become better hunters. Show me a guy hunting over a corn pile, and I'll show you a guy who is more a shooter than a hunter, and he's sabotaging his own opportunity to become a more accomplished hunter.

There is another issue that few have considered: Increased predation that comes when one regularly feeds wildlife in a specific spot. Having a deer feeder out in the woods is a great way to lose more button bucks to bobcat, dog, and coyote predation ----- and you'll never know about most of your losses.


I put some out last year after season as it was the first time i have ever run cameras and the best way i had heard of to get deer to the camera. I noticed once I started putting it out, and the small critters showed up, the bobcats, and coyotes showed up as well. I have been doing more research and will be going away from it.

Is there anything other that minerals you guys recommend for cataloging purposes?


We talk about putting minerals out, but in reality we are talking trace minerals in salt. Salt attracts wildlife, but it kills bacteria and fungi that would grow on food sources. That makes it a much safer alternative to feeding. You get the wildlife attracted, but do not spread disease. As for the attraction of predators, that is a very viable concern, and any attractant that concentrates prey animals will eventually draw predators to the area.
_________________________
The recreational value of a game animal is inverse to the artificiality of its origin and the intensiveness of the management system that produced it. Aldo Leopold


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#3236990 - 05/02/13 09:32 AM Re: Rural King deer feed recall [Re: Diehard Hunter]
Wes Parrish
16 Point


Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 19195
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Diehard Hunter
As for the attraction of predators, that is a very viable concern, and any attractant that concentrates prey animals will eventually draw predators to the area.

Here's where some significant differences come into play regarding salt licks and food plots (compared to "feeding" or "baiting" a very specific "spot").

Salt licks are mainly used during the Spring & Summer months by deer. This is a time when there's typically plenty of other prey animals (i.e. rabbits, young rabbits, turkey poults, young birds of all species, etc.) and the time of year when predators may be least likely to be hungry.

While small food plots may increase predation, they do not draw deer to a very small spot (like a feeder or corn pile). Deer are naturally "browsers", meaning they do not typically just stand and eat in the same spot, but rather walk along grabbing bites every few steps. Often, a food plot is just a small portion of their daily browse, unlike deer conditioned to unnaturally "feed" in a particular spot.

Also, and I know not why, but male deer seem to be drawn more to salt licks than female deer and fawns. This is good regarding predation, since both doe & fawns are more vulnerable than adult males.

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#3236997 - 05/02/13 09:37 AM Re: Rural King deer feed recall [Re: Wes Parrish]
scn
14 Point


Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 9809
Loc: Brentwood, TN US

content Online
I'm guessing if you plotted the timing of the serious decline of turkey flocks in the Southeast against annual feeder sales you might see a correlation.

Probably a coincidence.....
_________________________
Life is too short to fish with a dead cricket.

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#3237047 - 05/02/13 10:40 AM Re: Rural King deer feed recall [Re: Bone Collector]
woodsman87
8 Point


Registered: 09/27/12
Posts: 1296
Loc: south TN

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I may take a beating, but I wish they would outlaw feeding of corn altogether all year. It doesn't do much benificary to the deer anyways, and looks as if can be very harmful. I used to set up corn feeders, but I found that I got more and better pictures during the summer at mineral licks anyways. I quit feeding corn mainly thought because it is so freaking expensive.
I hope it is never allowed to hunt over, especially turkey. Remember, deer can get pressured and will come out only at night to feed, turkey have to do their stuff during the day.

Alot of the corn feeding advocates probably think that all their problems will be solved if they were allowed to bait. Well just like food plots, a deer will get used to the hunting pressure, only hitting your bait stations at night.

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#3237050 - 05/02/13 10:43 AM Re: Rural King deer feed recall [Re: scn]
woodsman87
8 Point


Registered: 09/27/12
Posts: 1296
Loc: south TN

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 Originally Posted By: scn
I'm guessing if you plotted the timing of the serious decline of turkey flocks in the Southeast against annual feeder sales you might see a correlation.

Probably a coincidence.....


Do you think that feeding turkeys toxic corn is a reason why populations seem to be decreasing?

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#3237075 - 05/02/13 11:17 AM Re: Rural King deer feed recall [Re: scn]
Football Hunter
Non-Typical


Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 25463
Loc: Wilson Co/Perry Co

Offline
 Originally Posted By: scn
I'm guessing if you plotted the timing of the serious decline of turkey flocks in the Southeast against annual feeder sales you might see a correlation.

Probably a coincidence.....
yeah,probably \:\)
_________________________
The best day to plant a tree,IS TODAY!

You wont know,if you dont go!


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#3237827 - 05/03/13 08:20 AM Re: Rural King deer feed recall [Re: woodsman87]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65036
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: woodsman87
 Originally Posted By: scn
I'm guessing if you plotted the timing of the serious decline of turkey flocks in the Southeast against annual feeder sales you might see a correlation.

Probably a coincidence.....


Do you think that feeding turkeys toxic corn is a reason why populations seem to be decreasing?


Bird species are far more sensitive to aflatoxin poisoning them mammals are, especially large mammals like horses, cattle and deer. It takes hundreds of parts per million of aflatoxin to be dangerous to large mammals, but only takes about 50 parts per million of aflatoxin to flat kill a turkey. And I have seen situations where a landowner was running corn feeders during the summer and I was finding a lot dead turkey on the property. Now there is no guarantee it was aflatoxin poisoning that was killing the turkey, but there seems to be a significant correlation between the two (summer corn feeding and dying turkey).
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3238953 - 05/04/13 04:50 PM Re: Rural King deer feed recall [Re: BSK]
Wes Parrish
16 Point


Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 19195
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: BSK
. . . . . only takes about 50 parts per million of aflatoxin to flat kill a turkey. And I have seen situations where a landowner was running corn feeders during the summer and I was finding a lot dead turkey on the property. Now there is no guarantee it was aflatoxin poisoning that was killing the turkey, but there seems to be a significant correlation between the two (summer corn feeding and dying turkey).

A few years ago I thought it was a good idea to "supplementally" feed "my" deer right after deer season closed, then stop right before turkey season began. But last time I did, most of the corn put out remained uneaten as late as 2 weeks before turkey season opened, necessitating my spending hours scrubbing the ground for every last kernel of that molded scum. That's when we found dead turkey carcasses, and had essentially no turkeys at all on the place for the next 3 years. This happened during February and early March, so the risk is not limited to just summer.

You can say there's "no correlation", but I'm near certain it was aflatoxin poisoning from supposedly aflatoxin-free corn (purchased from the County Co-Op, not Wal-mart) that wiped out an entire flock of gobblers, and an even larger flock of hens. At the time, I thought I was taking adequate precautions against the aflatoxin risk, by only doing supplemental feeding in the late winter/early spring, and most particularly by purchasing certified aflatoxin-free corn.

What many don't understand is that aflatoxin can develop in aflatoxin-free corn, especially in our humid climate, even on a seasonably warm day in February. And unlike the arid climate of Texas, where it's illegal for Wal-mart to sell corn that's not certified aflatoxin-free, it appears the corn that shows up containing aflatoxin is simply shipped up to the states that allow for its legal sale, such as Tennessee.

I'd say we're losing a lot of Tennessee turkeys each year to aflatoxin poisoning. For many of the same reasons we don't "see" all those young deer that die and are eaten by predators, we remain unaware to the extent of this loss of turkeys.

Think about this:

Somewhere between 25% and 75% of all fawns are typically dying before they reach 6 months of age. Yet how often do you run across the evidence of their remains? Shouldn't the woods be full of little bone piles? What I'm saying is that the evidence typically disappears both with turkeys and young deer before we stumble across it, and we remain somewhat oblivious as to how many deer and turkey are dying from means other than human hunters shooting them.

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