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#3228432 - 04/22/13 08:42 AM Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern?
contendershooter
4 Point


Registered: 12/07/12
Posts: 111
Loc: TN, USA

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TWRA posts that almost 177K deer were killed in 2102-2013 season and when you look at the counties, all are east of I-65 with the exception of two...

Montgomery County ranked 7th, and I can see that because of Ft. Campbell; Maury County ranked 6th, and that is usually a deer haven. Williamson county dropped out of the top 13, even though it borders Maury...Giles county was number 1 along the Alabama border, with bordering Lincoln county coming in 5th and Franklin county coming in 8th.

But the vast majority are in West TN east of Perry county, and why do these counties have such good deer production and its the same ones every year; Weakley, Henry, Carroll, Madison, Fayette, Hardeman, Hardin.

Why is there not as many deer taken in East Tennessee, when you look at the amount of forest there, you would think it would be higher...

Opening this up for discussion...

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#3228440 - 04/22/13 08:50 AM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: contendershooter]
scn
14 Point


Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 9912
Loc: Brentwood, TN US

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You hit on it in your next to last sentence. Forest is not as good of habitat as farmland.

East TN will never support as large of a deer population as middle and wtn due to poorer habitat.


Edited by scn (04/22/13 08:51 AM)
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#3228463 - 04/22/13 09:09 AM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: scn]
woodsman87
8 Point


Registered: 09/27/12
Posts: 1305
Loc: south TN

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I have never hunted in the mountains, but I know big woods hunting is tough. The best habitat for deer needs hardwoods, thickets, and fields.
My home county # 1 woo hoo!
Too bad I haven't accounted for any of those bucks in over three seasons now...

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#3228481 - 04/22/13 09:28 AM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: woodsman87]
contendershooter
4 Point


Registered: 12/07/12
Posts: 111
Loc: TN, USA

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yea I guess, but what about all of the big deer in Cades Cove in the Smoky Mountain National Park? I have seen monsters in there. Now I understand no hunting, but its a big forest area.

I guess this begs another question.... what do you think will put out better deer... 20 acres with a creek that is flat with 5 acres of fields and the remainder woods, but no hollows, or 20 acres with some decent hollows and no fields with a creek;

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#3228499 - 04/22/13 09:41 AM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: contendershooter]
muddyboots
12 Point


Registered: 11/06/02
Posts: 7076
Loc: savannah, tn., usa

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Farmland!
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#3228500 - 04/22/13 09:41 AM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: muddyboots]
cecil30-30
16 Point


Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 14150
Loc: Morgan Co

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Those deer in cades cove are concentrated in cades cove.That is definatly not the norm for the the whole park.
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#3228502 - 04/22/13 09:43 AM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: cecil30-30]
stik
"Popcorn"
18 Point


Registered: 03/12/99
Posts: 21008
Loc: lenoir city,tn

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 Originally Posted By: cecil30-30
Those deer in cades cove are concentrated in cades cove.That is definatly not the norm for the the whole park.


right. there are actually very few deer throughout the park.
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#3228512 - 04/22/13 09:59 AM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: stik]
contendershooter
4 Point


Registered: 12/07/12
Posts: 111
Loc: TN, USA

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interesting, learn something all the time on here...
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#3228526 - 04/22/13 10:09 AM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: contendershooter]
SES
8 Point


Registered: 10/13/11
Posts: 1252
Loc: Corryton, Tn

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Panther levels are higher in the east as well. Major factor.
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#3228540 - 04/22/13 10:27 AM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: SES]
contendershooter
4 Point


Registered: 12/07/12
Posts: 111
Loc: TN, USA

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It is kind of strange how land works...I hunt in Cheatham county on the east side near the Davidson county border, and it is up and down hollows, with creeks at the bottom, hardly no flat land and I see deer periodically, but this past season sucked. Not one deer other than one doe on the opening of archery.

My father-in-law hunted the same land 33 days in a row seeing nothing at all the first 32, but got a good 9 point on the 33rd. By itself, not chasing a doe, during the prime of the rut.

A good friend of mine owns some land no more than 8 miles down the road, but it has a mix of fields and woods, no crops at all, its more flat, and he hunts a field they cut hay out of in between two patches of woods and limited out on good bucks and had a hearty harvest of does last year...

is it the land that is the difference or what? Our land has a bounty of acorns, wild pear trees, persimmons spread around a creek that flows year round for water, some cedar thickets, etc good area.

That being said, would you all hunt the top of the hollow above the creek bed, half way down the hollow looking up at the top and down at the creek bed, or at the bottom by the creek bed, sacrificing seeing the top of the hollow hoping the deer will come down? The top of the hollow has a old logging road that is grown up with grass and briers that deer love to travel... We see deer signs, scrapes, rubs, at the top of the hollow, along the middle and by the creek, so its hard to pattern them. The cedar thickets are bedding areas, but the way the hollow lays out they have you any way you come in from so we have usually stayed away from there. Recommendations?

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#3228544 - 04/22/13 10:31 AM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: contendershooter]
Poser
Mud Dauber
16 Point


Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 12873
Loc: Tennessee

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West is the best
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#3228590 - 04/22/13 11:29 AM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: scn]
Football Hunter
Non-Typical


Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 25477
Loc: Wilson Co/Perry Co

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 Originally Posted By: scn
You hit on it in your next to last sentence. Forest is not as good of habitat as farmland.

East TN will never support as large of a deer population as middle and wtn due to poorer habitat.
Yep,was my first thought
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#3228609 - 04/22/13 11:46 AM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: Football Hunter]
Beardendy88
4 Point


Registered: 07/07/12
Posts: 349
Loc: North Alabama

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Is there a link to that page?
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#3228671 - 04/22/13 01:10 PM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: Beardendy88]
Bayou Buck
10 Point


Registered: 05/11/09
Posts: 2691
Loc: Spring Hill / Perry Co

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How much land are you hunting? Sounds like you are are on a small tract of timber with not much on it to attract or hold deer.
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#3228711 - 04/22/13 02:08 PM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: Bayou Buck]
contendershooter
4 Point


Registered: 12/07/12
Posts: 111
Loc: TN, USA

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19 acres, mostly woods with big hollows, my neighbor across from me has 119 acres that goes over to Marrowbone Lake area

mostly all acorns, and underbrush the deer can munch on...no farmland really around, too hilly...

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#3228739 - 04/22/13 02:49 PM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: contendershooter]
Football Hunter
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Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 25477
Loc: Wilson Co/Perry Co

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 Originally Posted By: contendershooter
19 acres, mostly woods with big hollows, my neighbor across from me has 119 acres that goes over to Marrowbone Lake area

mostly all acorns, and underbrush the deer can munch on...no farmland really around, too hilly...
Would be VERY easy to overhunt 19 acres,be careful,deer will avoid human intrusion,and go nocturnal quick
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#3228742 - 04/22/13 02:54 PM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: Football Hunter]
smstone22
16 Point


Registered: 01/11/04
Posts: 16917
Loc: Allardt, TN

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Are you saying 19 acres was hunted 33 days in a row or was it another place that was hunted by your FIL 33 days in a row? Even with 30 times that amount of land, thats a ton of hunting pressure.
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#3228745 - 04/22/13 03:07 PM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: smstone22]
contendershooter
4 Point


Registered: 12/07/12
Posts: 111
Loc: TN, USA

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he hunted this parcel and another 33 days in a row, two different stands, never arrived or left from same trail. My 19 acres was probably 20 of the 33 days... he is retired and has that luxury!!! :-)
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#3228780 - 04/22/13 04:16 PM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: muddyboots]
PinchPoint
8 Point


Registered: 11/29/12
Posts: 1831
Loc: Knoxville Tn

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 Originally Posted By: muddyboots
Farmland!
^^This
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#3229169 - 04/23/13 07:15 AM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: PinchPoint]
bbuck14
8 Point


Registered: 01/01/13
Posts: 1231
Loc: West Tn.

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West Tn. definetly holds a high number of deer. On the farm I hunt it has 90 acres agriculture land. The farmer in the past has tried to plant soybeans but with no luck. The last 2 years he planted them he tried twice each year with the deer completly eating them up. He was never able to even put a combine in the field. The second year he tried he took 62 deer off of it during the summer the last time I had talked to him. Still he wasn't able to put a combine in the field. With all the agriculture in the area and adaquate amount of cover these areas are literally filled up with deer. Thats why also alot of us around her are more selective in killing larger bucks. There's not that much problem at all to kill a legal buck anymore because of the high numbers. I couldn't tell you the last time I've been hunting and haven't seen a deer.
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#3229426 - 04/23/13 12:39 PM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: bbuck14]
Poser
Mud Dauber
16 Point


Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 12873
Loc: Tennessee

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 Originally Posted By: bbuck14
couldn't tell you the last time I've been hunting and haven't seen a deer.


I'd like to hunt where you're hunting. I, too hunt areas with high numbers of deer in West TN, but still, deer sightings are 50-60% of hunts.
_________________________
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Wild & crazy, can't be stopped. Only the strong will survive.

Keep your knife sharp and your skillet greasy.

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#3229479 - 04/23/13 02:15 PM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: Poser]
woodsman87
8 Point


Registered: 09/27/12
Posts: 1305
Loc: south TN

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I mainly hunt Giles, which was #1, and secondly Lincoln, which was like #6.
I must be a terrible deer hunter, because I haven't killed a buck in 3 seasons and I hunt two of the most productive counties in the state.
Also, I see deer on probably 25% of my hunts, but it wasn't always like that. I used to kill 2 or 3 a year, and see deer all the time. I either killed them all or am very unlucky. I think it is the luck though.

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#3229531 - 04/23/13 03:22 PM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: woodsman87]
WRbowhunter
8 Point


Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: collierville,tn

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I hunt SE Fayette county. Seeing deer is not that importaint to me its getting deer within bow range that lights my fire. I think over the year my deer sightings are on the 45% to 50 % side but when it comes to deer within bow range it gets down around 15 to 20%. Not that I actually get a shot on all these deer but I count it as a good hunt the closer they get.I don't hunt food plots or fields so my viewing distance is not that far until the last part of the year. I can say I do get a little spoiled with the number of deer in these neck of the woods.
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#3229590 - 04/23/13 04:41 PM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: WRbowhunter]
bowriter
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 41851
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

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One word answer-groceries. Two crop fields and 11 trees is good deer habitat if the trees are close enough together.
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#3230168 - 04/24/13 08:43 AM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: bowriter]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65381
Loc: Nashville, TN

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Contendershooter,

Deer harvest numbers/density are primarily controlled by three main factors. In order of importance, these factors are 1) deer density, 2) hunter density, and 3) visibility.

Starting with the last one first, visibility--how far hunters can see to shoot--is a far bigger player in harvest numbers than most hunters realize. The amount of ground hunters can cover from a stand varies far greater with small changes in visible distance than most realize. A hunter that is hunting a combination of open woods and open fields, that can see 100 yards on average, is actually covering over 16 times more area than a hunter hunting in thick brush with only 25 yards of visibility. In essence, a four-fold increase in visibility creates over 16 times more area covered. As visible distance doubles, area covered is squared. The result is hunters hunting in more open terrain will see and have the opportunity to kill a larger portion of the deer that exist.

Hunter density is also a critical factor in harvest numbers. Land-ownership patterns (the average size of individual properties) and the area's proximity to a large metro area are big players in hunter density. Areas within one driving hour of a major city, and areas with small land-ownership patterns (lots of small individual properies) tend to maximize hunter density, while areas more than an hour's drive from a major metro area and large land-holdings decrease hunter density. These farther away areas with large landholdings are often the areas with the most large leases and clubs with very tightly controlled hunter densities that decrease deer kill densities.

Obviously, deer population is the greatest contributor to harvest densities. You can't kill what isn't there, and many opportunities for harvest exist in high deer density area. And what controls deer density is what Bowriter posted above--groceries. Basically, the amount of "deer food" in the area, and agriculture is the best quality deer food. However, don't forget the role of cover in deer population. Deer must have some cover to hide in. Pure agricultural areas with no forest often have very low deer densities because there is no place for deer to hide from hunters. Probably the best "mix" of agriculture and forest (for high deer densities) is somewhere around 60% agriculture and 40% forest. The highest deer density areas of the U.S. have about this mix. Pure forest areas often have amazingly low deer densities. Oak forests can produce an overabundance of acorns in fall, but acorns are only a seasonal food. What are deer going to eat the rest of the year? In addition, acorn production each fall is not a given. Some years experience very poor acorn production.
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#3230565 - 04/24/13 04:12 PM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: contendershooter]
lpo1981
6 Point


Registered: 01/20/12
Posts: 609
Loc: Dickson, TN

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 Originally Posted By: contendershooter
he hunted this parcel and another 33 days in a row, two different stands, never arrived or left from same trail. My 19 acres was probably 20 of the 33 days... he is retired and has that luxury!!! :-)

You may be over hunting you particular property, it only takes hunting you property one time with the wrong wind or bumping deer to mess it up for awhile..

This is only my direct observation and may not hold true for everybody.
My parents own 36 acres which is as you described, all timber with a big stand of cedars but has plenty of white oaks scattered but all very mature timber. They have owned it since 1997 and over the years I've noticed my deer sightings as far as numbers have steadily gone down. I keep track of my deer sightings every year, and I also noticed that on years that I was not on another lease and primarily only hunted this one piece of property I saw even less deer. I joined another lease this past season to give myself some options and I started hunting my property with only the right wind and changed stand locations so that I could access my property without bumping as many deer. I did see more deer this year than last year now wether my actions contributed to that I don't know. I also took a drastic measure and had 8 acres clear cut and a 4 acre ridge select cut. Hoping to improve my deer habitat with some cover as I feel I had none to hold deer.


Edited by lpo1981 (04/24/13 04:14 PM)

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#3230656 - 04/24/13 05:28 PM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: lpo1981]
bowriter
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Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 41851
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

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I primarily hunt two parcels of land, each is just about 100-acres with maybe 25-acres of open woods/thicket. The rest is field or pasture. I do not hunt it hard, probably 2-3 days a week and take no special care with entering or leaving stands. I also drive quite close to my stands.

I can only think of two days last year I did not see deer. From the two properties, I killed nine deer using all equipment types. I beieve it was four with bow, four with rifle and one with mzl. Now that I thiink about it, I might have killed 10. Not sure.

What I have is ideal habitat in a blend of food source and cover combined with above average deer density and no hunter density except me. My herd numbers usually increase each year by a small number. Cars and trucks help keep it in check accounting for 4-5 killed each year.

Now, here is the point I was going to make. On one property, I have great visibility. On the other, I am hunting a dense thicket. I see and kill more deer in the thicket and have for several years.

The reason being, stand placement. And with that, I will let you all debate it. \:\)
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#3231146 - 04/25/13 07:25 AM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: contendershooter]
landman
8 Point


Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 2486
Loc: TN & Western KY

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I may be wrong, but I don't think FT C deer are counted in Montgomery Counties numbers, FT C is actually in 2 states, and I think 2 county's per state.

But if you look at the numbers when they come out it runs high in number of points per buck, and I wouldn't say deer by the Post is the best. Big bucks are killed all over the county
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#3231273 - 04/25/13 08:59 AM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: landman]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65381
Loc: Nashville, TN

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I've spent an inordinate amount of timing statistically assessing the factors that produce the most and least older buck sightings by hunters. And although every property and hunting set-up is a unique situation, when looking at hunter success in seeing older bucks--from strictly a statistical perspective--the #1 factor is hunting pressure from that hunting set-up. The number of times a particular stand has been hunted in a given year is statistically the most accurate predictor of success in seeing older bucks, and the two are inversely related: the more times the stand has been hunted, the lower the odds of seeing an older buck.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

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#3231291 - 04/25/13 09:14 AM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: BSK]
woodsman87
8 Point


Registered: 09/27/12
Posts: 1305
Loc: south TN

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
I've spent an inordinate amount of timing statistically assessing the factors that produce the most and least older buck sightings by hunters. And although every property and hunting set-up is a unique situation, when looking at hunter success in seeing older bucks--from strictly a statistical perspective--the #1 factor is hunting pressure from that hunting set-up. The number of times a particular stand has been hunted in a given year is statistically the most accurate predictor of success in seeing older bucks, and the two are inversely related: the more times the stand has been hunted, the lower the odds of seeing an older buck.


I have a big block of land to hunt, but its about 60 miles away so I do not go much. It gets plenty of pressure from a few other hunters by the way. But I live on my own personal property, and I get to hunt it regularly. 200acres +- a few. If I have the time and enough gas money I can go to my far spot. But most the time I am stuck to my home spot. So it is I either go hunting and risk scaring them, or just not go at all. I have always had that problem of hunting too much. I hunt whenever I can since I do not get to go much, so it don't matter what the wind or anything is, I try to hunt it accordingly but sometimes you can't.

Do yall suggest I not go as much on my small home spot, or hunt it hard while I can? I would hate to not go if I had the oppurtunity to go.

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#3231344 - 04/25/13 10:05 AM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: woodsman87]
Poser
Mud Dauber
16 Point


Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 12873
Loc: Tennessee

content Online
 Originally Posted By: woodsman87
 Originally Posted By: BSK
I've spent an inordinate amount of timing statistically assessing the factors that produce the most and least older buck sightings by hunters. And although every property and hunting set-up is a unique situation, when looking at hunter success in seeing older bucks--from strictly a statistical perspective--the #1 factor is hunting pressure from that hunting set-up. The number of times a particular stand has been hunted in a given year is statistically the most accurate predictor of success in seeing older bucks, and the two are inversely related: the more times the stand has been hunted, the lower the odds of seeing an older buck.


I have a big block of land to hunt, but its about 60 miles away so I do not go much. It gets plenty of pressure from a few other hunters by the way. But I live on my own personal property, and I get to hunt it regularly. 200acres +- a few. If I have the time and enough gas money I can go to my far spot. But most the time I am stuck to my home spot. So it is I either go hunting and risk scaring them, or just not go at all. I have always had that problem of hunting too much. I hunt whenever I can since I do not get to go much, so it don't matter what the wind or anything is, I try to hunt it accordingly but sometimes you can't.

Do yall suggest I not go as much on my small home spot, or hunt it hard while I can? I would hate to not go if I had the oppurtunity to go.


Really just depends on what your goals are. If you are hunting mature bucks, or a specific buck, then yes, that can have an impact. At the same time time, 200 acres to yourself, should give you some room to hunt when you get the chance/want to and still keep the pressure of certain parts of the property until the time is right.
_________________________
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Wild & crazy, can't be stopped. Only the strong will survive.

Keep your knife sharp and your skillet greasy.

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#3231370 - 04/25/13 10:31 AM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: woodsman87]
bowriter
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 41851
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

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 Originally Posted By: woodsman87
 Originally Posted By: BSK
I've spent an inordinate amount of timing statistically assessing the factors that produce the most and least older buck sightings by hunters. And although every property and hunting set-up is a unique situation, when looking at hunter success in seeing older bucks--from strictly a statistical perspective--the #1 factor is hunting pressure from that hunting set-up. The number of times a particular stand has been hunted in a given year is statistically the most accurate predictor of success in seeing older bucks, and the two are inversely related: the more times the stand has been hunted, the lower the odds of seeing an older buck.


I have a big block of land to hunt, but its about 60 miles away so I do not go much. It gets plenty of pressure from a few other hunters by the way. But I live on my own personal property, and I get to hunt it regularly. 200acres +- a few. If I have the time and enough gas money I can go to my far spot. But most the time I am stuck to my home spot. So it is I either go hunting and risk scaring them, or just not go at all. I have always had that problem of hunting too much. I hunt whenever I can since I do not get to go much, so it don't matter what the wind or anything is, I try to hunt it accordingly but sometimes you can't.

Do yall suggest I not go as much on my small home spot, or hunt it hard while I can? I would hate to not go if I had the oppurtunity to go.


I suggest you go whenever and wherever you want and enjoy hunting. Isn't that why you hunt, for the enjoyment?
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Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.

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#3231373 - 04/25/13 10:35 AM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: bowriter]
woodsman87
8 Point


Registered: 09/27/12
Posts: 1305
Loc: south TN

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 Originally Posted By: bowriter
 Originally Posted By: woodsman87
 Originally Posted By: BSK
I've spent an inordinate amount of timing statistically assessing the factors that produce the most and least older buck sightings by hunters. And although every property and hunting set-up is a unique situation, when looking at hunter success in seeing older bucks--from strictly a statistical perspective--the #1 factor is hunting pressure from that hunting set-up. The number of times a particular stand has been hunted in a given year is statistically the most accurate predictor of success in seeing older bucks, and the two are inversely related: the more times the stand has been hunted, the lower the odds of seeing an older buck.


I have a big block of land to hunt, but its about 60 miles away so I do not go much. It gets plenty of pressure from a few other hunters by the way. But I live on my own personal property, and I get to hunt it regularly. 200acres +- a few. If I have the time and enough gas money I can go to my far spot. But most the time I am stuck to my home spot. So it is I either go hunting and risk scaring them, or just not go at all. I have always had that problem of hunting too much. I hunt whenever I can since I do not get to go much, so it don't matter what the wind or anything is, I try to hunt it accordingly but sometimes you can't.

Do yall suggest I not go as much on my small home spot, or hunt it hard while I can? I would hate to not go if I had the oppurtunity to go.


I suggest you go whenever and wherever you want and enjoy hunting. Isn't that why you hunt, for the enjoyment?


That is why hunt bowriter, it is fun to me, and I like to kill deer. I just sometimes think I am contradicting myself by hunting so hard.
And even though I have 200 acres to almost myself, sometimes my brother or a friend hunt it not much, it just doesn't seem like a lot of land. And I never target a buck, it is hard to because I never see any big deer anyways. I just hunt, and when hunting if I see a buck that excites me, usually a 8 pointer with about 13 inch spread, I shoot it. No matter the weapon, no matter the season.
I think I have over hunted it though, havent killed in 3 years on it, and before that I shot one or two every year on it.

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#3231414 - 04/25/13 11:19 AM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: woodsman87]
Football Hunter
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Registered: 10/22/07
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Loc: Wilson Co/Perry Co

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If I ever agreed with BSK on anything,pressure is it.Yeah I can see does a young bucks most times from stands that get hunted a lot,but seeing mature bucks almost always come from the least pressured stands.The 2 bucks taken off my place this year came from a stand that had not been hunted ,or even been to since it was set.The other,that stand got hunted once,in early bow season.
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#3231456 - 04/25/13 12:01 PM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: woodsman87]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
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 Originally Posted By: woodsman87
Do yall suggest I not go as much on my small home spot, or hunt it hard while I can? I would hate to not go if I had the oppurtunity to go.


Personally, I suggest just moving around, and not hunting the same stand site over and over. It doesn't take much a move to couter-act the pressure on that one stand site. Generally just relocate out of visual range of the previous site.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3231464 - 04/25/13 12:21 PM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: BSK]
woodsman87
8 Point


Registered: 09/27/12
Posts: 1305
Loc: south TN

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: woodsman87
Do yall suggest I not go as much on my small home spot, or hunt it hard while I can? I would hate to not go if I had the oppurtunity to go.


Personally, I suggest just moving around, and not hunting the same stand site over and over. It doesn't take much a move to couter-act the pressure on that one stand site. Generally just relocate out of visual range of the previous site.


That is what I try to do BSK, I rarely hunt in the same spot or same exact tree two hunts in a row. I have one spot that is three funnels that all come together, and it is the most textbook looking spot I have ever seen. I think I have hunted it 12 times, and have killed 5 deer out of it. I am scared to hunt it too much because my success rate is too good. None of those were mature bucks, all were does with bow or muzzleloader, but I feel like if I keep on playing that funnel every once in a while I will get my best ever. It is my honey hole that I don't use very much. I try to only hunt it about 4 or 5 times a year, and I try to only use it on good hunting days, like no wind, cooler weather, ect. and try to focus it on during the rut.

After Rut is when I have went back in there shooting does with my bow for meat.

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#3231632 - 04/25/13 04:04 PM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: woodsman87]
Bone Collector
14 Point


Registered: 09/09/09
Posts: 8965
Loc: Murfreesboro, TN

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 Originally Posted By: woodsman87
I mainly hunt Giles, which was #1, and secondly Lincoln, which was like #6.
I must be a terrible deer hunter, because I haven't killed a buck in 3 seasons and I hunt two of the most productive counties in the state.
Also, I see deer on probably 25% of my hunts, but it wasn't always like that. I used to kill 2 or 3 a year, and see deer all the time. I either killed them all or am very unlucky. I think it is the luck though.


I have one place in Giles to hunt. The first season i saw deer every time. the last two have been spotty. Having land in a good county is one thing, but like anywhere, if there is no reason for them to be there, or another parcel has better, habitat and food, you may not see any deer.
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#3232104 - 04/26/13 08:14 AM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: Bone Collector]
Mike Belt
TnDeer Old Timer
16 Point


Registered: 03/26/99
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I'll probably get slammed on this but if I didn't have much land to hunt and I really wanted to kill a buck or two I'd forfeit all my hunting with any weapon until prime time hunting rolled around. Even if you don't pressure them off your land by over hunting you can certainly make them all go nocturnal or just use your land during the night. Of course this also depends on what kind of surrounding hunting pressure you have and the terrain features you have and those of the adjoining land.

Edited by Mike Belt (04/26/13 08:16 AM)
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#3232553 - 04/26/13 07:19 PM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: Mike Belt]
Football Hunter
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Registered: 10/22/07
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 Originally Posted By: Mike Belt
I'll probably get slammed on this but if I didn't have much land to hunt and I really wanted to kill a buck or two I'd forfeit all my hunting with any weapon until prime time hunting rolled around. Even if you don't pressure them off your land by over hunting you can certainly make them all go nocturnal or just use your land during the night. Of course this also depends on what kind of surrounding hunting pressure you have and the terrain features you have and those of the adjoining land.
I agree,I try to move around different properties,hunting on very marginal days,over and over, can have a big effect on deer movement later.JMO
_________________________
The best day to plant a tree,IS TODAY!

You wont know,if you dont go!


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#3233621 - 04/28/13 07:20 AM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: Football Hunter]
102
10 Point


Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 4042
Loc: Tennessee

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I totally agree about the pressure theory. Except during one time of the year, the rut. And when I say rut, I mean the hard chasing phase that for whatever reason, I rarely see. This rare time when does are about to come into estrous, and stress levels are in perfect harmony with pressure, weather, and the herd, is something I have only seen a handful of times in 30 plus years of hunting.

At this time, I throw the notebook out the window. Big bucks may show up anywhere at any time. I just make sure I am out there in a stand.

But for most of my mature buck hunts, I assume there will be a trickle rut at best, and that I am hunting pressured deer.

This means I consult my notes as for what acorn trees may be in the area. And what terrain features may cause "funneled" movement to or from these feeding areas.

And I wait for the wind to be right for that travel area.

It may be a bottleneck caused by a body of water and a field, or blow down, or road, or guardrail, or ridge, rock, bluff, or house.

But I wait for the right wind, and expect to kill on the first sit.

I generally have many (climbing) stand sites spread out over different counties and states. Mostly public land and miles apart to affect different doe groups.

Also, I rarely target a specific buck. This is just too difficult and frustrating on public land. Rather, I tend to be opportunistic. If a good representative buck (for the area I am hunting) gives me a shot, I rarely pass.
At AEDC this may be a 90-100 inch 8 point. In Illinois, it may be a 120-130 inch 8 point.

For me the key is endurance. And at my stage in hunting, this usually means easy in, easy out. Multiple pre scouted (usually months prior) stand locations that are very convenient and often over looked.

I also assume that after my first hunt in that location, my scent has begun to saturate the area. I assume that upon my departure from the area, my scent and evidence of human entrusion stays behind for hours, if not days depending on weather conditions. I assume that sometime in my absence and before my next hunt in that location, there will be a mature deer that visits the area and detects my left over scent.
And if this happens, I assume that the chances of this mature deer returning are seriously deminished for a while.

Now if I multiply these factors by repeated hunts to this same stand location...then my chances for this stand site producing become much worse.

In a nutshell...my best chance for success on a mature buck is almost always the first time I hunt that stand.

Indeed, my best bucks have almost ALL been taken the first time I sat that location.
_________________________
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Luck is where Opportunity and Preparation MEET!
When in doubt...back out!
SCAPAS.stay calm and pick a spot.

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#3234403 - 04/29/13 08:17 AM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: Mike Belt]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65381
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Mike Belt
I'll probably get slammed on this but if I didn't have much land to hunt and I really wanted to kill a buck or two I'd forfeit all my hunting with any weapon until prime time hunting rolled around.


No slamming here. I totally agree and that's how I hunt even a fairly large chunk of land. I wait until the peak "cruising" by older bucks that occurs just before the rut kicks off.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3234432 - 04/29/13 08:45 AM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: BSK]
woodsman87
8 Point


Registered: 09/27/12
Posts: 1305
Loc: south TN

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: Mike Belt
I'll probably get slammed on this but if I didn't have much land to hunt and I really wanted to kill a buck or two I'd forfeit all my hunting with any weapon until prime time hunting rolled around.


No slamming here. I totally agree and that's how I hunt even a fairly large chunk of land. I wait until the peak "cruising" by older bucks that occurs just before the rut kicks off.


I wish I was disciplined like yall and disciplined like 102 was, but I can't do it. I hunt every chance I get from the first day of bow until the last day of rifle. It really isn't that many days since I am so busy, but I may mess up my best spots by hunting them on bad days. I do this because if I wait for a good day it may happen while I have to be at work or something.\

I had one of the most unlucky weather/hunting oppurtunities/timing ever this year. I keep up with my weather and dates and rut dates. No lie, in Southern Middle TN (Giles County), it was in the mid 70s during the day, and mid 50s during the night, on both of my rut weekends when I got to go, December 1-2, and December 8-9. From opening day of rifle all the way till about December 10th is the best. It was warm during my Thanksgiving Holidays, and warm on the best time of the year during my weekend hunting. It was avearge temps during middle of the week. I am a school teacher, so there aren't any changing work schedule to work on weekends.
I know it sounds like I am a big complainer, but I do blame most of my bad luck this past season on the bad weather on the same days that I had the oppurtunity to hunt.
Just tough luck, and maybe this fall I will get a "booner"

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#3235352 - 04/30/13 07:37 AM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: woodsman87]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65381
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: woodsman87
 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: Mike Belt
I'll probably get slammed on this but if I didn't have much land to hunt and I really wanted to kill a buck or two I'd forfeit all my hunting with any weapon until prime time hunting rolled around.


No slamming here. I totally agree and that's how I hunt even a fairly large chunk of land. I wait until the peak "cruising" by older bucks that occurs just before the rut kicks off.


I wish I was disciplined like yall and disciplined like 102 was, but I can't do it. I hunt every chance I get from the first day of bow until the last day of rifle. It really isn't that many days since I am so busy, but I may mess up my best spots by hunting them on bad days. I do this because if I wait for a good day it may happen while I have to be at work or something.


And that's just the reality of the situation for most hunters woodsman87. Most hunters have limited times to hunt and so they go when they have the opportunity to go. Sometimes the timing and weather work out and sometimes they don't.

I do almost all of my hunting during only November (because it is the rut month in my area). I've experienced years when the weather absolutely sucked during most of November, and the hunting was pretty sucky as a result. That's just the odds...
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3236387 - 05/01/13 02:37 PM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: BSK]
Mike Belt
TnDeer Old Timer
16 Point


Registered: 03/26/99
Posts: 17870
Loc: Lakeland, Tn.

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I'm retired now so I hunt any and every day season is open. With the exception of about 3 weeks I did the same when I worked. Having said that, I'm fortunate enough to have a lot of land to hunt. I hunt "PRIME TIME" stands and when not, I hunt other stands. Because I have a lot of land I'm able to do this and hunt so often. After prime time I may continue to hunt my "prime time" stands. I figure that late into the season I have nothing to lose.
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#3236448 - 05/01/13 04:09 PM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: Mike Belt]
Crosshairy
10 Point


Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 2660
Loc: Bartlett, TN

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I balance my hunting pressure between several public land spots and the private land (85 acres) on which I share access with others.

The private land is not "respected" enough, and gets over-hunted to the point that I've noticed a significant drop-off in deer sightings.

Last season was the first year in 7 years that I didn't kill a deer off of it. Instead, I killed 3 deer on 3 different public land hunts (1 bow, 2 muzzleloader) and missed a 4th due to equipment failure.

So the morale of my story is that, if you are in a decent deer hunting county with a tiny tract of private land, save it for instances where you have zero travel time or want to hunt it at the peak of the rut. Spread your attention across other places instead.

It's fun to scout land and find new spots. Pack a lunch, get to the back of a place, and drag one out. You might not want to do it with every single deer, but it's pretty rewarding.
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#3236457 - 05/01/13 04:16 PM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: Crosshairy]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Crosshairy,

From your post above, it sounds like some of your public land spots are fairly productive. Do you find you have to work very hard to find "good" spots on public land, or do you believe good public areas are more common than most hunters think?
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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3236804 - 05/01/13 10:22 PM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: BSK]
Crosshairy
10 Point


Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 2660
Loc: Bartlett, TN

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
Crosshairy,

From your post above, it sounds like some of your public land spots are fairly productive. Do you find you have to work very hard to find "good" spots on public land, or do you believe good public areas are more common than most hunters think?


I'm a meat hunter 90% of the time, so "productive" for me just means that deer are present.

Of the three I killed, one was a doe from the President's Island antlerless hunt, which is a bit of an anomaly when compiling statistics.

My personal opinion is that, for people with "meat" standards, there are good public land options throughout much of the state. The two locations that I killed deer on, however, probably required 30+ hours of Internet research to locate. My criteria is that I don't want to see another vehicle wherever it is that I park, and so far I've been successful at keeping it that way.

The downside to my hunting spots are that they are small enough area of quality habitat that they really can't sustain additional pressure. In other words, I can offer generic words of encouragement, but I can't even give people a hint about where I'm hunting without potentially ruining the spots. They are out there, you just have to be resourceful and willing to walk a bit!

My spots are special to me because deer sighting frequency is high. The reason for that is a high concentration of habitat that holds deer even in high hunting pressure scenarios (thickets, mostly). I hunt the ugly land that people overlook, and I kill deer there on a somewhat regular basis. If you know what to look for, it is more available than people realize.
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#3236917 - 05/02/13 07:31 AM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: Crosshairy]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65381
Loc: Nashville, TN

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Thanks Crosshairy. Interesting info.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3237041 - 05/02/13 10:31 AM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: BSK]
woodsman87
8 Point


Registered: 09/27/12
Posts: 1305
Loc: south TN

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I got about 190-200 acres of private land to hunt, but it gets pressured by not only me, but the guy that hunts with me on it and neighboring property. As of me and friend, It is both of our lands combined, we just let each other hunt on each others land. But I hunt with him and pull for him if you know what I mean. It is the neighbors that do the pressuring. Hunting everyday, shooting everything they see, and so forth, but neighbors do not bow hunt. I probably ruin my spots during bow season some, but I am afraid if I don't hunt them when I can, when muzzle or gun season opens the neighbors would have done shot everything up.

I do not want to get bashed for this, and I am not complaining or whining. There is nothing I can do about somebody else hunting the way that they want to hunt within their boundraies. It is just frustrating. I have killed several deer, and some decent bucks but I am to the point now where I don't much feel like shooting a buck unless I am going to mount it. Maybe I should lower my standards, maybe I should start small game hunting, I don't know. Maybe I should dish out some gas money and start hunting public land or my far away private spot.

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#3237820 - 05/03/13 08:14 AM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: woodsman87]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65381
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: woodsman87
I do not want to get bashed for this, and I am not complaining or whining. There is nothing I can do about somebody else hunting the way that they want to hunt within their boundraies. It is just frustrating.


Yes, the effect neighbors hunting tactics have on your land can be frustrating. Hopefully, you can find a way to take advantage of what they are doing (finding a way to play their hunting pressure to your advantage).


 Quote:
I have killed several deer, and some decent bucks but I am to the point now where I don't much feel like shooting a buck unless I am going to mount it. Maybe I should lower my standards, maybe I should start small game hunting, I don't know. Maybe I should dish out some gas money and start hunting public land or my far away private spot.


I'll be the first to admit I do a lot of "trophy hunter" bashing. However, it is not the trophy hunting I'm bashing. Every hunter should decide for themselves what they want to kill and why. If a hunter only wants to shoot "mountable" bucks, good for them and good luck with that endeavor. My problem with some trophy hunters is their demand that everyone else should have the same harvest standards they do (and their real reason for demanding that is so that they personally will be more successful--more younger bucks passed) and their belief that only hunters with the same standards as themselves are "worthy" hunters.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3238109 - 05/03/13 01:00 PM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: BSK]
102
10 Point


Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 4042
Loc: Tennessee

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BSK wrote:

I'll be the first to admit I do a lot of "trophy hunter" bashing. However, it is not the trophy hunting I'm bashing. Every hunter should decide for themselves what they want to kill and why. If a hunter only wants to shoot "mountable" bucks, good for them and good luck with that endeavor. My problem with some trophy hunters is their demand that everyone else should have the same harvest standards they do (and their real reason for demanding that is so that they personally will be more successful--more younger bucks passed) and their belief that only hunters with the same standards as themselves are "worthy" hunters.

One of the best post you ever made Bryan!
_________________________
God, Family, Job, Bowhunting
Luck is where Opportunity and Preparation MEET!
When in doubt...back out!
SCAPAS.stay calm and pick a spot.

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#3243697 - 05/10/13 01:56 PM Re: Deer Harvest Numbers - Why The Pattern? [Re: bbuck14]
JeepKuntry
16 Point


Registered: 01/20/04
Posts: 14454
Loc: Clinton, TN

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Middle/West TN has more farming habitat. Better soil, better food source. I would imagine alot of middle TN counties, especially the closest counties in Unit L, have alot of east TN folks on leases there.
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