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#3221698 - 04/14/13 12:40 PM Dangerous refridgerant approved
10 Point

Registered: 02/24/03
Posts: 4408
Loc: USA

GM first to use this in vehicles, hmmm.
Friday, April 12, 2013
Obama EPA Nominee

Gina McCarthy, who faces a hearing Thursday morning on her fitness to serve as EPA administrator, was primarily responsible for EPA’s promotion of an automotive air conditioning refrigerant that caused engine fires in Mercedes Benz testing, MailOnline can report.

McCarthy, EPA’s current air regulation chief, ‘provided the real forward motion’ for a plan to reward US automakers who used the new climate-change-friendly refrigerant known as ‘HFO-1234yf,’ according to an EPA staffer with knowledge of the agency’s internal processes who spoke on condition of anonymity.

When her EPA subagency, the Office of Air and Radiation, approved HOF-1234yf, McCarthy said that the chemical ‘helps fight climate change and ozone depletion.’

That’s because its emission into the atmosphere creates a far smaller greenhouse-gas footprint than other refrigerants used in vehicles.

The approval came as part of the EPA’s Significant New Alternatives Policy (SNAP) Program, which evaluates and regulates substitutes for the ozone-depleting chemicals.

But when McCarthy gave SNAP approval to HFO-1234yf, her office never mentioned the tests conducted by Daimler, the parent company of Mercedes-Benz.

A Daimler engineer told Reuters in December that his team was ‘frozen in shock’ when they saw test after test of HOF-1234yf turn a car’s engine compartment into an inferno after small leaks were simulated.

Read more:
"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him --- better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford

#3221816 - 04/14/13 04:05 PM Re: Dangerous refridgerant approved [Re: dr]
Camp David
12 Point

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5283
Loc: TN

DR, I've been looking into this for some time. Here is an article I wrote about it for a newsletter:

Several months ago we reported on the new R1234yf air conditioning refrigerant now being used in the Cadillac XTS and eventually to become the standard replacement for R134a.

At that time, some of our research found articles saying R1234yf was “slightly flammable.” That was a little concerning, as the same thing was said about Silly String® many years ago.

Just recently, however, Mercedes-Benz conducted their own tests relating to leaking R1234yf that could occur during an accident or faulty components.

As reported in the Daily Mail, Mercedes Director of Vehicle Certification stated: “The whole vehicle can catch fire and the burning refrigerant generates acutely poisonous hydrogen fluoride, which poses a severe danger to both passengers and rescue workers.”

The Daily Mail also reported Daimler, Mercedes’ parent company, has stated: “Due to the new findings of this study and the high safety demands at MB, this chemical will not be used in its products.”

That’s a fairly bold statement, particularly since its use has been mandated by European law and Mercedes offered no information on how they plan to avoid compliance.

Honeywell, who holds the majority of R1234yf patents along with DuPont, has strongly disputed the findings and cites studies by the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) who have concluded R1234yf cannot be ignited under conditions “normally experienced by a vehicle.”

SAE also found the refrigerant “posed no greater risk than any other engine compartment fluids,” claiming the testing conducted by Daimler was unrealistic and used “extremely idealized conditions.”

It seems feasible in testing for flammability and potential danger of a product you would want to examine the worst case scenario. It also stands to reason that SAE’s finding that R1234yf posed “no greater risk than any other engine compartment fluids” would have to include gasoline in the equation.

According to our industry contacts, there has been a long-standing spat with German manufacturers (Mercedes, VW/Audi/Porsche and BMW) over the use of R1234yf. These manufacturers favor carbon dioxide (CO2) as the preferred option and have invested heavily in research.

As we reported, CO2, known as R744, can be used as a refrigerant, but it requires much higher pressures than R1234yf or R134a, which would call for redesign of the entire A/C system.
This, in itself, could be Mercedes’ way to avoid the use of R1234yf, as CO2 is a naturally occurring gas and has virtually no impact on the environment.

Nonetheless, European rules are requiring a phase-in of R1234yf beginning in 2013 through 2017. In addition, U.S. and Japanese automakers are supporting R1234yf.

All that combined with the approval of SAE International can only lead to the conclusion that millions of vehicles will be equipped with R1234yf over the next couple of years.
Why are we trying so hard to develop artificial intelligence when we should be trying to cure natural stupidity.

#3221978 - 04/14/13 07:07 PM Re: Dangerous refridgerant approved [Re: Camp David]
10 Point

Registered: 02/24/03
Posts: 4408
Loc: USA

Thanks David. We all know this is about control, and how to fleece more money out of the working class..
"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him --- better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford

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