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#3218584 - 04/10/13 12:51 PM Re: Rush Limbaugh concedes defeat on gay marriage [Re: Crappie Luck]
preds1
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 Originally Posted By: Crappie Luck


I'm not anti-gay. I dont' care what they do. I just reject that suggestion that I have to condone or, in some cases, celebrate what I view as deviant behavior.
I don't believe their behavior should be illegal nor do I believe that my rejection of it should be either.



The State of Washington is suing a small flower shop after the owner declined to provide flowers for a homosexual wedding – based on her religious beliefs.


Barronelle Stutzman, the owner of Arlene’s Flowers in Richland, Wash., is facing thousands of dollars in fines and penalties for allegedly violating the state’s Consumer Protection Act.

“If a business provides a product or service to opposite-sex couples for their weddings, then it must provide same-sex couples the same product or service,” Attorney General Bob Ferguson said in a statement.

On March 1, a longtime customer asked Stutzman to provide flowers for his upcoming same-sex wedding. According to court documents, she told him that she would not be able to do so “because of her relationship with Jesus Christ.”

The Attorney General’s office sent a letter to the florist on March 28 giving her a chance to reconsider her position and sign an agreement indicating her intention to comply with the law. But Stutzman refused.

“Under the Consumer Protection Act, it is unlawful to discriminate against customers on the basis of sexual orientation,” the attorney general said.

In their letter to Stutzman, they told her the only way to avoid a lawsuit was to agree to provide services for homosexual weddings.


“This means that as a seller of goods or services, you will not refuse to sell floral arrangements for same-sex weddings if you sell floral arrangements for opposite-sex weddings,” the attorney general’s office wrote.

Attorney JD Bristol called the notion that his client was guilty of discrimination “nonsense.”

“Arlene’s Flowers has catered to all patrons, including homosexuals, for many years,” Bristol wrote in his reply to the Attorney General. “Arlene’s Flowers has had openly gay employees.”

He told The Seattle Times that he believes the state is trying to make an example of the flower shop.

“This is about gay marriage, it’s not about a person being gay,” he told the newspaper. “She has a conscientious objection to homosexual marriage, not homosexuality. It violates her conscience.”

Bristol said he believes this is a freedom of religion issue.

“What the government is saying here is that you don’t have the right to free religious exercise,” he told the newspaper.

Religious liberty groups in Washington and across the country are voicing their support for the flower shop.

“You may not be a florist, and you may have made a different decision, but liberty is at stake for all of us,” said Joseph Backholm, executive director of the Family Policy Institute of Washington. “Draw your line in the sand right here.”

Backholm sent an email blast urging supporters to stand with Arlene’s Flowers.

“Don’t ignore the bully just because he hasn’t punched you in the mouth yet,” he said. “A small business owner is looking at years of litigation and huge legal expenses because she won’t bow to the political elites.”

Peter Sprigg, with the Family Research Council, told Fox News they are seeing more and more of these types of cases.

“People need to be aware this is the underlying motive for the push for same sex marriage,” he said. “It’s not just about legal rights and benefits. It’s about forcing everyone in society to recognize their relationships as being one hundred percent equal to opposite sex marriages.”

He called the lawsuit a dangerous step towards encroaching on religious liberty.

“It also reflects a narrow view of religious liberty where people may have freedom to exercise religious liberty in their church but they don’t have that right when they go outside those four walls,” he said.

The Attorney General is seeking a permanent injunction forcing the flower shop to comply with the law – as well as $2,000 in fines for every violation.

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#3218622 - 04/10/13 01:30 PM Re: Rush Limbaugh concedes defeat on gay marriage [Re: preds1]
Pic IN the Casa
TurdFarmer2.0
14 Point


Registered: 03/18/11
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Man do we need a social enema.
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#3218630 - 04/10/13 01:41 PM Re: Rush Limbaugh concedes defeat on gay marriage [Re: Pic IN the Casa]
Crappie Luck Moderator
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Not yet. But maybe it's time to consider scrub brushing gloves for gerbils
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#3218639 - 04/10/13 02:01 PM Re: Rush Limbaugh concedes defeat on gay marriage [Re: Crappie Luck]
BSK
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I completely agree with some of your points Crappie Luck. Although I consider myself somewhat "gay friendly," in that I really don't care, and I'm not interested in knowing who someone finds sexually attractive, I too find the in-your-face "We're queer and we're here, so get over it" attitude of militant gays offensive and irritating. In addition, I too believe they are pushing their sexual orietation towards a "protected status" to gain advantage over others.

But that group's "Rights" (read: special status) is of no interest to me. I'm more concerned with the Rights of those gay people I know, which dress just like the rest of us, work at the same jobs as the rest of us, and go about their daily lives just like the rest of us. The only major differences is who they partner with--someone of the same sex. I know quite a few gay people who fit this bill (and I also know a few of the flamboyant, militant types of gay people, who tend to truly get on my nerves, just as Ultra Left Wing Socialists and Communists do). As a heterosexual, I have the right to be legally married, and accrue all of the legal and societal rights of that legal status. I would like gay people to have the same right.
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#3218654 - 04/10/13 02:18 PM Re: Rush Limbaugh concedes defeat on gay marriage [Re: BSK]
Crappie Luck Moderator
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Contrary to what my arguments on here seem to imply, I'm not "anti-gay". I took a hard line on the topic so I would not be mistaken as "sitting on the fence".

I also don't care what people do. But I differ from you in that I feel gay marriage effects me and the institution of marriage in a negative way. I agree there should be no legal punishment for being gay, financially, Tax or otherwise.

My argument that those rewards should be removed from the current system entirely, not expanded to included homosexuals.

As for the issue of rights, Homosexuals should enjoy that same rights guaranteed in the Constitution as the rest of us. If they are not specifically listed, they are not rights at all, they are privileges granted by a benevolent Government.
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#3218957 - 04/10/13 09:06 PM Re: Rush Limbaugh concedes defeat on gay marriage [Re: Crappie Luck]
fishboy1
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Registered: 01/13/03
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My feeling mirror Crappie Lucks though he is much more eloquent at stating it.

Anybody else notice the 10000lb gorilla in the room?

ANOTHER long string of bad government policy ? One that opens the door for abuse and degrading society?

Sadly it seems that Americans will endure endless numbers of policy outrages as long as they feel like everybody else is getting equally screwed.
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#3219074 - 04/11/13 04:57 AM Re: Rush Limbaugh concedes defeat on gay marriage [Re: JimFromTN]
BMan
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 Originally Posted By: JimFromTN
 Originally Posted By: Crappie Luck
No. I never said that and I suspect that is just a detraction from the conversation.

Two consenting adults can do whatever they want in the bedroom. Why do you need the government's permission to do it? And why do you think I have to approve of it for it to be "Legit".

No one is suggesting a man can't have sex with another man. But I reject the idea that I have to accept it as normal or call it "Marriage".



Actually, they are. How many times in this thread has it been referred to as deviant behavior? As for the government, it wasn't until the last 20 years that homosexual behavior in the bedroom was legal. It may still be illegal in some states.

It IS deviant behavior. You cannot argue that fact.
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#3219151 - 04/11/13 07:52 AM Re: Rush Limbaugh concedes defeat on gay marriage [Re: Crappie Luck]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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 Originally Posted By: Crappie Luck
I also don't care what people do. But I differ from you in that I feel gay marriage effects me and the institution of marriage in a negative way.


I've never understood this argument. How does allowing gay people to marry effect you and your marriage, or the the "institution" of marriage? (and what is the "institution" of marriage?)


 Quote:
I agree there should be no legal punishment for being gay, financially, Tax or otherwise.

My argument that those rewards should be removed from the current system entirely, not expanded to included homosexuals.


That is an interesting concept I tend to agree with, but removing all benefits of marriage would be exceedingly difficult. On any paperwork completeled for any purpose, once you write "spouse" in the section indicating your relationship to another person, everything changes. Finding and eliminating all of those benefits would be very difficult.


 Quote:
As for the issue of rights, Homosexuals should enjoy that same rights guaranteed in the Constitution as the rest of us. If they are not specifically listed, they are not rights at all, they are privileges granted by a benevolent Government.


I agree, but the right to not be descriminated against is something I believe in. I also believe this right is an intent of the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3219163 - 04/11/13 08:09 AM Re: Rush Limbaugh concedes defeat on gay marriage [Re: BMan]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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 Originally Posted By: BMan
It IS deviant behavior. You cannot argue that fact.


I can. Deviant behavior is a violation of social norms. If you do not consider homosexuality as violating societal norms, then it is not deviant behavior. Considering the vast majority of people who are gay are born that way, then being attracted to people of the same sex is part of nature's system. Definitely a small part of the natural system, but a 2-4% of the human population, still a norm when you consider the world's population.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3219167 - 04/11/13 08:11 AM Re: Rush Limbaugh concedes defeat on gay marriage [Re: fishboy1]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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 Originally Posted By: fishboy1
ANOTHER long string of bad government policy ? One that opens the door for abuse and degrading society?


Without question, every time the government attempts to "regulate" or control anything, they screw it up. Every "good" policy ends up creating a dozen bad, unintended policies. That's just a fact of governance experienced by all societies that have governments.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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