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#3186515 - 03/07/13 02:51 PM Ed Ashby's studies - necessary for white tail deer
BirdDog123
4 Point


Registered: 08/17/12
Posts: 384
Loc: Tennesssee, US

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Hey everyone,

I know there are some hard core bowhunters out there who might want me beheaded for even asking this.. but how many think that Ed Ashby's studies on single blade broadheads are necessary for consistently killing white tail deer?

Specifically, in his studies he concludes that full penetration and an exit wound give the highest probability of a fatal shot; no disagreement there. He suggests that the best way to achieve this is with a heavy arrow (excess of 700 grains) and a heavier 3 inch single blade broadhead.

It seems that todays mechanicals and arrows have come a LONG way from the late 90s and especially brands like rage seem to give consistent penetration and a high percentage for mortally wounding deer. His main contention was that broadheads similar to these often break, bend, shatter, during penetration and reduce the chance of lethality. What are your thoughts? Last deer I shot entered through both rib cages and the only damage to my mechanical was a blade slightly bent... deer ran about 60 yards.

thoughts?

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#3186532 - 03/07/13 03:05 PM Re: Ed Ashby's studies - necessary for white tail deer [Re: BirdDog123]
Mr.Bro
10 Point


Registered: 08/02/09
Posts: 2809
Loc: Hendersonville Tn.

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Who's Ed Ashby?
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#3186547 - 03/07/13 03:17 PM Re: Ed Ashby's studies - necessary for white tail deer [Re: Mr.Bro]
PinchPoint
8 Point


Registered: 11/29/12
Posts: 1822
Loc: Knoxville Tn

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That set-up is and will always be lethal and extremely tough...But you have to consider how far bows, arrows, and other technologies have come. His reports were years ago, and bows back then were no where near as advanced as they are today. I dont believe those set-ups are NECESSARY for todays bows to kill a whitetail. Those broadheads are much tougher than most mechanicals, but are not needed to kill a deer.
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#3186965 - 03/07/13 09:30 PM Re: Ed Ashby's studies - necessary for white tail deer [Re: PinchPoint]
TNDeerGuy
12 Point


Registered: 11/28/06
Posts: 6021
Loc: Old Hickory/Mt.Juliet, TN

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I don't know who he is, but I remember reading all that years ago—some good information is contained in all that "techie" stuff.

I agree in part that todays archery technology is leaps and bounds above the equipment that was around during the initial testing—we don't have to shoot 700+ grain arrows to make up for a bow that only shot around 200fps to maximize kinetic energy. However, the underlying message in all that still very much applies with todays equipment capabilities and advancement in technology—choose an arrow that offers a good balance of weight and optimal kinetic energy and choose a broadhead that offers small surface resistance and razor sharp edges. With all of the advancements in technology, along with creative marketing strategies it has caused more than several people to cut their nose off to spite their face by making inferior choices in their setup.
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#3187038 - 03/08/13 12:19 AM Re: Ed Ashby's studies - necessary for white tail deer [Re: TNDeerGuy]
Hoss
TnDeer Old Timer
8 Point


Registered: 02/14/00
Posts: 1459
Loc: Hendersonville , TN

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Do a Google search on Mr. Ashby. He seems to selling a product to me. So, just read his "Studies" as advertisements and let it go at that (they look like a well made head). He is selling a philosophy to turn a product. Nothing wrong with that. But that is what it is.
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#3187045 - 03/08/13 01:05 AM Re: Ed Ashby's studies - necessary for white tail deer [Re: Hoss]
catman529
spiderboy
16 Point


Registered: 11/10/10
Posts: 16181
Loc: Franklin TN

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I killed and recovered 6 deer last year with my bow... shots ranged from 5 to 20 yards. I was using a 3 blade broadhead... NAP thunderhead. Not once did the broadhead bend, break or show other signs of wear. What did happen was the arrow broke sometimes. Also, in some shots, the arrow came out into the leg opposite front leg preventing a complete pass through but those were lethal heart shots. One time this broke the BH off the base of the arrow but that was after that broadhead had just shot its 3rd deer with no sharpening or anything.

I don't have any intention of changing broadheads for my compound bow. The Thunderheads are affordable, they take a beating, and kill the heck out of deer...

I would like to shoot a recurve sometime, and if/when I do, I would like to use only 2 blade cut-on-contact broadheads specifically for maximum penetration. Got my eye on the magnus stinger for that.
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#3187161 - 03/08/13 07:31 AM Re: Ed Ashby's studies - necessary for white tail deer [Re: catman529]
UTGrad
14 Point


Registered: 12/01/07
Posts: 8882
Loc: Franklin, TN

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People over on Archery Talk think Ashby is God. I think it's outdated info and applicable for the time it was written.
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#3187173 - 03/08/13 07:39 AM Re: Ed Ashby's studies - necessary for white tail deer [Re: catman529]
Buckblaster
10 Point


Registered: 10/04/06
Posts: 3893
Loc: bradley county,TN/Lancaster,SC

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 Originally Posted By: catman529
I killed and recovered 6 deer last year with my bow... shots ranged from 5 to 20 yards. I was using a 3 blade broadhead... NAP thunderhead. Not once did the broadhead bend, break or show other signs of wear. What did happen was the arrow broke sometimes. Also, in some shots, the arrow came out into the leg opposite front leg preventing a complete pass through but those were lethal heart shots. One time this broke the BH off the base of the arrow but that was after that broadhead had just shot its 3rd deer with no sharpening or anything.

I don't have any intention of changing broadheads for my compound bow. The Thunderheads are affordable, they take a beating, and kill the heck out of deer...

I would like to shoot a recurve sometime, and if/when I do, I would like to use only 2 blade cut-on-contact broadheads specifically for maximum penetration. Got my eye on the magnus stinger for that.
ALWAYS, hunt with a sharp broadhead. If it wont shave hair i wont shoot it. You kill deer with a bow by cutting and hemorrhaging, unlike a gun. Shooting a dull broadhead instead of cutting, will push and roll things out of the way instead of cutting. Shooting one slap through the lungs it wont matter but there is always a margin for error.
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#3187639 - 03/08/13 04:31 PM Re: Ed Ashby's studies - necessary for white tail deer [Re: UTGrad]
TNDeerGuy
12 Point


Registered: 11/28/06
Posts: 6021
Loc: Old Hickory/Mt.Juliet, TN

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 Originally Posted By: UTGrad
People over on Archery Talk think Ashby is God. I think it's outdated info and applicable for the time it was written.


It actually is very applicable today as well—too many people choose inferior lightweight setups in their search for greater speed, only to complicate the problem by cramming a large surfaced area head (mechanical or not) that is marginally sharp on the tip and then wonder why they had penetration or loss-of-blood problems. The gain in technology has created a false-sense of security in my opinion—especially with the newer archers that have never been forced to understand effects and benefits of a heavier arrow and a razor sharp broadhead because that is not the marketing strategies go for. .
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#3187978 - 03/09/13 07:17 AM Re: Ed Ashby's studies - necessary for white tail deer [Re: TNDeerGuy]
UTGrad
14 Point


Registered: 12/01/07
Posts: 8882
Loc: Franklin, TN

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 Originally Posted By: TNDeerGuy
 Originally Posted By: UTGrad
People over on Archery Talk think Ashby is God. I think it's outdated info and applicable for the time it was written.


It actually is very applicable today as well—too many people choose inferior lightweight setups in their search for greater speed, only to complicate the problem by cramming a large surfaced area head (mechanical or not) that is marginally sharp on the tip and then wonder why they had penetration or loss-of-blood problems. The gain in technology has created a false-sense of security in my opinion—especially with the newer archers that have never been forced to understand effects and benefits of a heavier arrow and a razor sharp broadhead because that is not the marketing strategies go for. .


I agree with everything you just mentioned above, but I don't think a 700 grain arrow and a large single bevel blade is necessary to take down a whitetail. I've seen guys over on AT
swear thats the most ethical set up.

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#3188014 - 03/09/13 08:03 AM Re: Ed Ashby's studies - necessary for white tail deer [Re: UTGrad]
Crow Terminator
TnDeer Old Timer
14 Point


Registered: 10/23/99
Posts: 8904
Loc: McMinn County

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You gotta admit though, a 700 grain arrow and large single bevel bladed broadhead would have increased the recovery odds of a certain shoulder shot buck that someone here shot and lost with a mid weight arrow and expandable broadhead this past season. *STIR STIR STIR* \:\)

The longer I spend time in the field, the more I learn. And I seem to be gravitating away from the light-mid weight hunting arrows in favor of the heavier ones. I hunted with Easton N-Fused Axis arrows this past season and really liked those; total weight is 403 grains. If I were to buy a shaft right now to pick for hunting this year and couldn't use the Axis N-Fused I already have, it would be the Full Metal Jackets.

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#3188080 - 03/09/13 09:55 AM Re: Ed Ashby's studies - necessary for white tail deer [Re: UTGrad]
bucksmacker
Button


Registered: 01/21/13
Posts: 5
Loc: west tn

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Shot pacement is what kills an animal. A deer can be killed with only a field point if it is placed correctly. With that being said, Kentic energy is a key factor in penetration of the arrow. We use high poundage bows with light weight arrows at blazing fast speeds today and harvest large numbers of deer. Years ago before the compound bow came along, we used recuves and long bows that we could dang near outrun the arrow to the target. Yet with heavier arrows we still harvested deer. Yes, a 700 grain or heavier arrow with a large single blade will kill a deer. But so will a piece of flint rock and a home made stick and string. Its mostly about WHERE the shot is placed. Just my two cents worth, not that it means anything. LOL







































w

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#3188293 - 03/09/13 05:26 PM Re: Ed Ashby's studies - necessary for white tail deer [Re: bucksmacker]
Hoss
TnDeer Old Timer
8 Point


Registered: 02/14/00
Posts: 1459
Loc: Hendersonville , TN

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2317's baby!!!! \:D
125 grain head!!! \:D
78 lbs of draw weight!! \:D
32 inch arrows!!! \:D

That's not the only way to get it done- but it works for me!!! \:D


Edited by Hoss (03/09/13 05:27 PM)
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"The future of bowhunting depends on effective education"..... Bill Wadsworth

A mere shadow of the man I once was... Me!

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