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#3179051 - 02/28/13 09:53 AM Re: Anyone using .223 / 5.56 cal for deer hunting? [Re: Jcalder]
Deer Boy
4 Point


Registered: 11/20/02
Posts: 350
Loc: Union City, TN

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Sorry you took it the wrong way then, your forgiven! Guess the point I was trying to make is two little squirts under 10 years old killed 9 deer and only lost one! No matter what caliber they were shooting, yes I'm very proud! Again, you don't know the circumstances!

I felt obligated to post on this subject for any one considering .223 to feel confident in their choice! If in the hands of two immature hunters can shoot that many deer and kill them, just think how many an experienced hunter like yourself could kill! Thanks for helping me to clear my point, didn't know that was how people read it.
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#3179077 - 02/28/13 10:18 AM Re: Anyone using .223 / 5.56 cal for deer hunting? [Re: Jcalder]
woodchuckc
8 Point


Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 1789
Loc: Hickman County, TN

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I agree that everyone's goal should be to never lose an animal, no matter what the weapon, and they should do all in their power to prevent it. Realistically, it does happen however and there has to be some level that a hunter deems to be "acceptable". If you have killed 100 deer and lost one, than that must be an acceptable level to you or else you would not still be a hunter.

Back to the topic of this thread; for a youngster or someone who is very recoil-shy, you have a few choices:
1. Make them use a larger caliber weapon than they are comfortable with because it is more "deadly" and risk them taking a bad shot because they close their eyes before shooting or flinch.
2. Let them use a smaller but legal caliber that they are comfortable shooting and have proven themselves to be proficient with on the range.
3. Don't let them hunt until they are old enough / big enough to shoot a larger caliber.

I think most everyone can agree that choice 1 is not acceptable and while choice 3 is a viable option, it is not a very good one especially if you have daughters who want to hunt as they may never be ready for anything larger than a 22 caliber centerfire or 243. That leaves choice 2, and when my daughter is old enough (she's only 2 right now), proves herself capable on the range of shooting accurately and we use the appropriate bullet design and limit shot selection to broadside heart/lung shots, I would have no problem with her using a 223.

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#3179083 - 02/28/13 10:22 AM Re: Anyone using .223 / 5.56 cal for deer hunting? [Re: Jcalder]
BirdDog123
4 Point


Registered: 08/17/12
Posts: 384
Loc: Tennesssee, US

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I hate losing deer but when I do it just makes me more determined to go to the range and become a better shot.

I would venture to say that someone who burns 1,000rds of .223 at the range would be able to kill a deer more humanely than the guy who keeps his 7mm in the safe until its time to hunt.

Not saying that anyone in the debate does either of those things but its about marksmanship and shot placement not a huge caliber.

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#3179148 - 02/28/13 11:03 AM Re: Anyone using .223 / 5.56 cal for deer hunting? [Re: Jcalder]
-DRM-
6 Point


Registered: 08/21/12
Posts: 768
Loc: Spring Hill, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Jcalder
Losing one out of ten deer is unacceptable in my book. Why not increase your odds with a gun that is better suited for deer.


Do you have any hard proof increasing caliber will remove all other variables and increase the shooter's odds? Seems like a mighty big assumption.
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#3179155 - 02/28/13 11:19 AM Re: Anyone using .223 / 5.56 cal for deer hunting? [Re: -DRM-]
cecil30-30
16 Point


Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 14081
Loc: Morgan Co

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 Originally Posted By: -DRM-
 Originally Posted By: Jcalder
Losing one out of ten deer is unacceptable in my book. Why not increase your odds with a gun that is better suited for deer.


Do you have any hard proof increasing caliber will remove all other variables and increase the shooter's odds? Seems like a mighty big assumption.
Or why not stop archery hunting? Your odds of looseing a deer is far greater with archery equipment than it is with a 223..That I guarentee.
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#3179177 - 02/28/13 11:46 AM Re: Anyone using .223 / 5.56 cal for deer hunting? [Re: cecil30-30]
Jcalder
6 Point


Registered: 09/18/12
Posts: 935
Loc: Tennesse

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I'm not trying to argue the point of the caliber. I'm not saying outlaw anything. I have my personal beliefs and certain things I won't do. The point I was trying to make was losing deer under any circumstances should never be ok. We should all strive to make every shot count. I agree that people who shoot more often than the ones who just check scopes generally have more success at shot placement and finding shot deer. I also know that anytime you're hunting something can happen or change at the moment you decide to fire the shot. I'm not trying to argue the point of smaller calibers. But at what point are you ok with losing wounded animals?
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#3179208 - 02/28/13 12:12 PM Re: Anyone using .223 / 5.56 cal for deer hunting? [Re: cecil30-30]
scn
14 Point


Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 9597
Loc: Brentwood, TN US

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 Originally Posted By: cecil30-30
 Originally Posted By: -DRM-
 Originally Posted By: Jcalder
Losing one out of ten deer is unacceptable in my book. Why not increase your odds with a gun that is better suited for deer.


Do you have any hard proof increasing caliber will remove all other variables and increase the shooter's odds? Seems like a mighty big assumption.
Or why not stop archery hunting? Your odds of looseing a deer is far greater with archery equipment than it is with a 223..That I guarentee.


The controlled studies that have been done found exactly the opposite. Gun hunters lost more deer than archery hunters.

As an officer in the field, that is what I found as well. Many gun hunters are so conditioned mentally to seeing an animal drop in their tracks that when one runs off they don't even check to see if they hit or missed the deer. And, with many being hundreds of yards away, it is much more difficult for the hunter to pinpoint where the deer was standing to look for sign of a hit.



Edited by scn (02/28/13 12:16 PM)
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#3179293 - 02/28/13 01:33 PM Re: Anyone using .223 / 5.56 cal for deer hunting? [Re: scn]
climb_higher
4 Point


Registered: 12/16/11
Posts: 461
Loc: Tennessee

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It's like I said before. Set yourself up for success rather than failure. Practice is key no matter what caliber you want to legally use; however, you won't catch me in the deer woods with a .22 cal.
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#3179301 - 02/28/13 01:44 PM Re: Anyone using .223 / 5.56 cal for deer hunting? [Re: scn]
Hunter 257W
10 Point


Registered: 10/04/12
Posts: 2864
Loc: Franklin County

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In my opinion a deer cartridge at a minimum should be able to give full penetration with a broadside hit. This gives you a better blood trail to follow if required and obviously because blood leaks out 2 holes faster than just 1, the deer dies quicker and more humanely. Yes, bullet design has improved dramatically in the past 20 years so that there are .224 caliber bullets around that can give performance beyond what you would expect from such a small caliber. What bothers me though is the fact that so many hunters don't know enough about bullet design to chose the proper bullet when using these small bores and pushing them to the limits of what they can do. Yes, in the hands of a cool experienced hunter who can really shoot, and is willing to pass up some shots, a .223 Remington loaded with a Nosler Partition bullet can kill deer. However a novice hunter/marginal shooter who goes to his local gun shop and picks up some .223 ammo loaded with a 35grain Hornady VMax bullet is asking for trouble because his bullet is intended for prarie dogs rather than a 150lb animal.

The gun I have in mind for my daughter to use for deer when she starts hunting is my CZ Carbine chambered in 7.62x39. It has negligible recoil and is going to give much more consistent terminal performance on deer sized game than a .224 caliber.


Edited by Hunter 257W (02/28/13 03:30 PM)

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#3179323 - 02/28/13 02:02 PM Re: Anyone using .223 / 5.56 cal for deer hunting? [Re: Hunter 257W]
BirdDog123
4 Point


Registered: 08/17/12
Posts: 384
Loc: Tennesssee, US

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 Originally Posted By: Hunter 257W
What bothers me though is the fact that so many hunters don't know enough about bullet design to chose the proper bullet when using these small bores and pushing them to the limits of what they can do.


^^^ This.

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