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#3176678 - 02/26/13 10:31 AM Re: TOP DHS Checkpoint Refusals [Re: Barrett]
Mossy Oak
8 Point


Registered: 01/03/05
Posts: 2414
Loc: Montgomery Co.

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 Originally Posted By: Barrett
I'm not trying to start something at all, I just want to really want to figure out a few things. So if an illegal immigrant or lets even say a LEGAL American citizen that has 100 pounds of cocaine in the trunk gets stopped at a checkpoint....all that person really has to do is say i'm an American citizen and no you can not search my vehicle and they continue on their way? Why do we even bother with border patrol if the agents have no rights to enforce anything?

I ask because I don't know. I lived in Maine for a summer on the border of Canada and every time I crossed I got nervous even though I knew I was doing absolutely nothing illegal. I had no idea they could not legally make you pull over for a vehicle search. I'm learning something new here.


I see where you're coming from, but I think the big issue here is that these checkpoints are well past the border. I could understand the checkpoints if they were at the Mexico/US border but I think they are unreasonable if they are 30-50 miles past the border.
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#3176681 - 02/26/13 10:33 AM Re: TOP DHS Checkpoint Refusals [Re: TX300mag]
Redfred16
8 Point


Registered: 01/22/12
Posts: 1410
Loc: Hartland, WI

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 Originally Posted By: TX300mag
I've been through them 90 miles from the border.


The one on I-10 outside El Paso, TX is like 50 miles inside TX. It's like the government has already conceded the city. Walk across the border by simply saying "American" in good enough english and your in from Juarez.

What I always hated about it, is you'd see a minivan full of hispanics get waved through, then 2 white soldiers in uniform, driving a car with IL plates and FT Bliss window stickers get pulled over and searched. It was crazy and happened repeatedly.
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#3176687 - 02/26/13 10:38 AM Re: TOP DHS Checkpoint Refusals [Re: Mossy Oak]
BamaProud
12 Point


Registered: 04/03/11
Posts: 6465
Loc: Shelby County, TN

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That is a tough one. I want our borders locked down as tight as a whales blowhole, but also absolutely hate it when cops get on a power trip, giving the majority a bad rep.

I can see both sides, the are just doing their jobs, but from the other perspective there are people out there who just hate authority of any kind and do those kind of things just to prove they can.(much like the cops that like to throw their weight around just because they can).
They care more about "putting it to the man" than their rights.

...the checkpoints inside our borders are absolutely ludicrous.
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#3176699 - 02/26/13 10:44 AM Re: TOP DHS Checkpoint Refusals [Re: Mossy Oak]
Barrett
formerly bad_deer24
12 Point


Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 6863
Loc: Nolensville, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Mossy Oak
 Originally Posted By: Barrett
I'm not trying to start something at all, I just want to really want to figure out a few things. So if an illegal immigrant or lets even say a LEGAL American citizen that has 100 pounds of cocaine in the trunk gets stopped at a checkpoint....all that person really has to do is say i'm an American citizen and no you can not search my vehicle and they continue on their way? Why do we even bother with border patrol if the agents have no rights to enforce anything?

I ask because I don't know. I lived in Maine for a summer on the border of Canada and every time I crossed I got nervous even though I knew I was doing absolutely nothing illegal. I had no idea they could not legally make you pull over for a vehicle search. I'm learning something new here.


I see where you're coming from, but I think the big issue here is that these checkpoints are well past the border. I could understand the checkpoints if they were at the Mexico/US border but I think they are unreasonable if they are 30-50 miles past the border.


But playing devil's advocate here. Don't alot of illegals swim across the river or hop a fence and what if they steal a car? People doing illegal activities are not going to go through the one place where they are CERTAIN to be stopped and questioned. Doesnt it make sense to have checkpoints a little ways down the road where it is a little bit more unexpected?

I'm all for the border patrol keeping illegals and criminals out of the country so if they have to ask me what country I am a resident of....i'm more than happy to tell them if it frees up time for them to focus on the car right behind me that may actually be someone they are loking for. I guess I just can't wrap my head around the video. Sorry guys for being the unpopular one on this thread. \:\(
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#3176701 - 02/26/13 10:52 AM Re: TOP DHS Checkpoint Refusals [Re: BamaProud]
fishboy1
16 Point


Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 10524
Loc: Warren Co

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"Just doing their job" is a crock.

If they want to search without a warrant or probable cause, then the Legislature has to have the Stones to pass a law saying "you have no rights and must submit to the commands of the police without reservation including searches of any kind".

The reason they don't is because it would not hold up in court.... thus an illegal/null law, not to mention that they would be thrown out on their buns.

So standard operating procedure is to ASK citizens to voluntarily void their own rights. It is so pervasive that governmental agents are shocked when people say no. They have been trained to ask, wheedle,& intimidate people into complying but little or no training on what our rights really are, and that the SOP is a defacto violation of our supreme laws.

The political elite would rather allow an invasion of our borders by foreigners, then violate the rights of citizens in an attempt to garner votes.
Remaining sensitive to the "feelings" of foreigners/minorities rather than do what is right by the American citizen is how our government officials do business.
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#3176715 - 02/26/13 11:08 AM Re: TOP DHS Checkpoint Refusals [Re: Barrett]
Hangnail
12 Point


Registered: 11/30/00
Posts: 7183
Loc: Murfreesboro, TN

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This problem has been decades in the making. If our borders are secure, there wouldn't be any need for this type of checkpoint, miles from the border. The problem is the decades of illegal immigration and the number of illegals in the country this minute. Personally, I think the vast majority of natural born citizens pay the lion's share of the indignation associated with having to prove citizenship.

In that video, there was a passenger of a car that had a Hispanic accent. Not too much to ask for identification in my view. I understand that means nothing anywhere near the border states, but a white guy with a nondescript, plain 'ol American voice pattern shouldn't be an issue by any measure. Arabs blew up the WTC, but American children in wheelchairs get abused for the the effort of air travel.

I don't have the answers, but it's apparent that until we secure our borders, nothing is going to change for the better. When the threat of secure borders is being used as a tool to buy votes, how can we ever expect to be secure? I don't think we can. We, as a country, have allowed politicians and the legal system to dictate our safety, both physical and financial. Nobody can convince me that it would cost more to secure the borders than it costs to pay the bill for all of the people that don't legally belong here.

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#3176843 - 02/26/13 12:51 PM Re: TOP DHS Checkpoint Refusals [Re: fishboy1]
birddog
12 Point


Registered: 02/21/02
Posts: 6480
Loc: Seymour, TN

content Online
what a jerk. what is he trying to prove?
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#3176875 - 02/26/13 01:11 PM Re: TOP DHS Checkpoint Refusals [Re: birddog]
Diehard Hunter
CRAMP
12 Point


Registered: 08/01/08
Posts: 6738
Loc: East Tennessee

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 Originally Posted By: birddog
what a jerk. what is he trying to prove?


That he has rights granted to him by our constitution! That no one has the right to deny him his rights without just cause! That this is the United States of America, not Nazi Germany, or Iran, or China......

He is exercising his rights, just as you are by calling him names.
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#3176884 - 02/26/13 01:18 PM Re: TOP DHS Checkpoint Refusals [Re: Diehard Hunter]
BMan
16 Point


Registered: 02/06/06
Posts: 10399
Loc: Middle TN

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 Originally Posted By: Diehard Hunter
 Originally Posted By: birddog
what a jerk. what is he trying to prove?


That he has rights granted to him by our constitution! That no one has the right to deny him his rights without just cause! That this is the United States of America, not Nazi Germany, or Iran, or China......

He is exercising his rights, just as you are by calling him names.

Note that these videos are of SEVERAL people standing up for their rights, not just one person.

Maybe birddog was referring to one or more of the agents...
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#3176887 - 02/26/13 01:24 PM Re: TOP DHS Checkpoint Refusals [Re: BMan]
Diehard Hunter
CRAMP
12 Point


Registered: 08/01/08
Posts: 6738
Loc: East Tennessee

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 Originally Posted By: BMan
 Originally Posted By: Diehard Hunter
 Originally Posted By: birddog
what a jerk. what is he trying to prove?


That he has rights granted to him by our constitution! That no one has the right to deny him his rights without just cause! That this is the United States of America, not Nazi Germany, or Iran, or China......

He is exercising his rights, just as you are by calling him names.

Note that these videos are of SEVERAL people standing up for their rights, not just one person.

Maybe birddog was referring to one or more of the agents...


You may be correct.
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The recreational value of a game animal is inverse to the artificiality of its origin and the intensiveness of the management system that produced it. Aldo Leopold


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