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#3169624 - 02/19/13 11:10 AM starting with a pretty much clean slate
45min. to the stand
Spike


Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 35
Loc: TN

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My wife's family has land in Henrietta that I began hunting last fall. It was logged over a decade ago, and the undergrowth is amazingly thick. There is one "old school" food plot field with a stand in it, one large 7 acre field,and a lot of woodlands including one 20+ yr. old overgrown field also.

The only other person hunting the land is one of the uncles. Unfortunately, there is a lot of non "quality" pressure around... sounds like fireworks most mornings during deer season.

So my plans for this year are as follows:
this field is 1 acre and is getting raked and overseeded/ late frost seeded with 3 lbs of ladino and a pound of chicory tomorrow:



next month, I am going to plant 2 rows of lablab and cage it until it establishes, as well as putting a couple blackberry bushes in it...

I am cutting in a deep kill plot in a no till mix blended with chicory and clover additionally. It will be about 1/2 acre. I am hinge cutting to provide cover and natural trail direction:





great location- deep in a valley next to a spring fed stream...

then I have found a few more spots that look good for "micro plots"

the idea is to feed them, attract them, and hold them as much as possible. By putting in many small "snack" plots as well as a couple good maintenance feeding fields, I am hoping to achieve that. smaller fields will be mixed- mostly clover, but I am thinking come fall a couple will get brassicas and turnips...

here are some of the areas:









old logging trail:




right now I am working on clearing and liming. teh big food plot and the hidden one shown first will be the only producers this summer, the small plots I will be clearing, working over, and liming in prep for a fall planting.

I am going to add some arrowleaf clover as well to both of the plots for this year.

Any advice or help- guidance- would be appreciated. plant mix, location advice, lessons learned, etc.

and this is the big field:

will be an apple/ peach/ pear orchard up top in about 10 more years. the bottom part will get put out in clover...










so I guess this is a new grow thread? I will implement what advice I can and provide updates as the months go on.

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#3169630 - 02/19/13 11:15 AM Re: starting with a pretty much clean slate [Re: 45min. to the stand]
45min. to the stand
Spike


Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 35
Loc: TN

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as an aside- can I spray the existing food plot field with poast and overseed teh same day, or just mow it to a stubble and overseed?
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#3170370 - 02/19/13 11:30 PM Re: starting with a pretty much clean slate [Re: 45min. to the stand]
ROUGH COUNTRY HUNTER
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Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 12539
Loc: FRANKLIN COUNTY

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nice place
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#3170702 - 02/20/13 11:30 AM Re: starting with a pretty much clean slate [Re: ROUGH COUNTRY HUNTER]
Football Hunter
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Registered: 10/22/07
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Good ideas,but be very careful hunting the plots,especially the "micro"plots.They can become a night time only place for deer very quickly.
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#3170894 - 02/20/13 02:24 PM Re: starting with a pretty much clean slate [Re: Football Hunter]
smstone22
16 Point


Registered: 01/11/04
Posts: 16896
Loc: Allardt, TN

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It will be tough frost seeding without killing the existing vegetation first. Yes you can spray poast and overseed the same day, I just think you are going to have alot of weed control issues though doing it that way. You generally have to spray multiple times in those grass fields like that or you just continue to have problems. I would advise to wait til Fall to put that in clover. Spray multiple times over this Spring/Summer to suppress the grass, even then you will still likely have to spray a grass specific every now and then. Im in the same situation with a farm my Dad just bought, I want to get clover plots in now, but just would rather wait til next Fall so weed problems wont be so bad. Just my advice, take it or leave it lol
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#3171264 - 02/20/13 08:27 PM Re: starting with a pretty much clean slate [Re: smstone22]
45min. to the stand
Spike


Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 35
Loc: TN

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well... its too late now! I spread 1/2 ton of lime today... 1 50lb bag at a time- lol... 750lbs in the big field, and 250lbs in the little secret plot. I will be hunting the trails to the plot on the way to the bedding area- no kills in the plot...

then I went ahead and spread the clover and chicory seed. Most of that top field is left over food plot- red clover, rape, lespedanza, aslike, etc... Hope the rain tomorrow washes the seed into the soil with the lime and then over the next week, we should have more than enough nights with frost. I talked to the farmer next door for advice...

planted up 10 blackberry bushes today also- along the edges of the big plot and 2 inside the small plot, and 3 more leading out along the existing trail... deep trail- not a superhighway...

we'll see how it goes.


















and I threw in a rack rock lick with a beet flavor mineral brick in- they are tearing it up already!













Edited by 45min. to the stand (02/20/13 08:30 PM)
Edit Reason: forgot pics

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#3171342 - 02/20/13 09:15 PM Re: starting with a pretty much clean slate [Re: 45min. to the stand]
jmb4wd
8 Point


Registered: 10/03/07
Posts: 1186
Loc: Christiana, TN

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 Originally Posted By: 45min. to the stand
as an aside- can I spray the existing food plot field with poast and overseed teh same day, or just mow it to a stubble and overseed?


Looks like you have fun times ahead!!!!

If it was me, Id just cut low and overseed and let it get warmer and let somemore stuff green up before you start spraying
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Food Plot Establishment and Maintenance


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#3172016 - 02/21/13 01:41 PM Re: starting with a pretty much clean slate [Re: jmb4wd]
45min. to the stand
Spike


Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 35
Loc: TN

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well... Thank the lord for the rain coming today like I had hoped, then freezing 2 nights later... after that I just hope our spring stays as mild as the winter!
Come April, I'll plant up the lablab, but until then, its just waiting.

I know the plots will begin producing around the same time as spring green up, but the more I look at those does, the more I cant help to think that they are looking a little scrawny... and Im sure that there are more than a few with Fawns in the oven...

So let me ask a question- from the perspective of what is best for the deer, Im thinking they need more food...
This weekend, one of the uncles will put out 4 free choice feeders with corn to help provide the late winter carbs- but should I be telling him to mix in roasted soybeans so we can supplement protien also?

Anybody else had this problem in the first few years of cutting in plots? did you supplementally feed?

I'll put in another 1/2 acre plot deep in the woods, but thats probably about all we will add this year. next year we will maintain and expand the existing plots and cut in new ones...

Im just getting started here, so any experience you guys can share will help me greatly.

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#3172021 - 02/21/13 01:47 PM Re: starting with a pretty much clean slate [Re: 45min. to the stand]
45min. to the stand
Spike


Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 35
Loc: TN

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and I am decided- next month, I am going to bushwack about 50 yards in from here:


Its the heart of the property,thinned canopy letting in great light, right in a natural funnel, bedding areas all around, water all around...

Im gonna get all in that thick briary, tangled mess and put in 1/2 acre.

just as soon as my body recovers from all of yesterday's work!


Edited by 45min. to the stand (02/21/13 01:48 PM)

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#3173141 - 02/22/13 01:59 PM Re: starting with a pretty much clean slate [Re: 45min. to the stand]
Football Hunter
Non-Typical


Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 25462
Loc: Wilson Co/Perry Co

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Protect those blackberry bushes,deer will eat them to the ground.
_________________________
The best day to plant a tree,IS TODAY!

You wont know,if you dont go!


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#3175812 - 02/25/13 03:23 PM Re: starting with a pretty much clean slate [Re: Football Hunter]
45min. to the stand
Spike


Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 35
Loc: TN

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 Originally Posted By: Football Hunter
Protect those blackberry bushes,deer will eat them to the ground.


well, I went out Sunday to put up some small cages, and they had already gotten to them... not teh deer... the tree rats I'm guessing...

In the main field where I planted 3 bushes, all 3 were dug up completely. None of the buds were touched- it was obviously something trying to get to the roots.

so.... I loked at what I had with me and improvised a little...

I took the short tomato cages and flipped them upside down. then I used long tent stakes to stake the cages into the ground. then I took 550 paracord and used teh stakes as tie off points, I tied teh bases of the bushes to the ground firmly using the cage and tent stakes to slow down the squirrels from bring able to get them up and out of the ground completely...

then I bent the spikes that one would normally drive into the ground outward to create an annoying poking disturbance for any deer trying to get to the young bushes....

then I peed all around them...


checked out the bushes in the new plot and they have not been attaacked yet- but I went ahead and did teh same thing there.

whatcha think? I am sure the squirrels will eventually beat me... probably need some .22 cal intervention...

anybody else run into this?

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#3185583 - 03/06/13 04:56 PM Re: starting with a pretty much clean slate [Re: Football Hunter]
45min. to the stand
Spike


Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 35
Loc: TN

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Update: I will be going out this weekend hopefully to gather the pics from the cameras and put in new batteries.

One question- Has anyone here ever started lablab inside at home and then hardened it off and put it in the ground after it has come up a little? Can I do this successfully? should I still cage it and let it vine up through the cage?

anybody seeing any green up yet? I see the trees are starting to bud up... Im just excited to see anything coming up in these plots and wonder if we have hit the ground temp for germination yet...

Pictures to come as soon as I get them...

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#3186261 - 03/07/13 10:12 AM Re: starting with a pretty much clean slate [Re: 45min. to the stand]
Football Hunter
Non-Typical


Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 25462
Loc: Wilson Co/Perry Co

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 Originally Posted By: 45min. to the stand
Update: I will be going out this weekend hopefully to gather the pics from the cameras and put in new batteries.

One question- Has anyone here ever started lablab inside at home and then hardened it off and put it in the ground after it has come up a little? Can I do this successfully? should I still cage it and let it vine up through the cage?

anybody seeing any green up yet? I see the trees are starting to bud up... Im just excited to see anything coming up in these plots and wonder if we have hit the ground temp for germination yet...

Pictures to come as soon as I get them...
Cant imagine ground temps are anywhere near high enough,could change quick though I guess.Also,cant imagine how many little cups you would have to have to get any kind of stand of lab lab,usually a broadcast or drilled plant.
_________________________
The best day to plant a tree,IS TODAY!

You wont know,if you dont go!


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#3186265 - 03/07/13 10:15 AM Re: starting with a pretty much clean slate [Re: Football Hunter]
Football Hunter
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Registered: 10/22/07
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Loc: Wilson Co/Perry Co

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BTW,I get your excitement,but take it from a guy who has made many mistakes,slow down,wait on spring,and plant something that will make it thru summer.Buckwheat is a good choice,something like lab lab,that deer are gonna kill,well,you better have plenty of it,or it will just get wipped out.

And you'll be posting pics of lab lab nubs,seen it on here a million times.


Edited by Football Hunter (03/07/13 10:15 AM)
_________________________
The best day to plant a tree,IS TODAY!

You wont know,if you dont go!


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#3186483 - 03/07/13 02:03 PM Re: starting with a pretty much clean slate [Re: Football Hunter]
Hunter 257W
10 Point


Registered: 10/04/12
Posts: 3068
Loc: Franklin County

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 Originally Posted By: Football Hunter
BTW,I get your excitement,but take it from a guy who has made many mistakes,slow down,wait on spring,and plant something that will make it thru summer.Buckwheat is a good choice,something like lab lab,that deer are gonna kill,well,you better have plenty of it,or it will just get wipped out.

And you'll be posting pics of lab lab nubs,seen it on here a million times.


I always hear of food plots being destroyed by deer before they can get established. How large are these plots typically? They have to be small. Maybe 1/4 acre? I've never had a food plot the deer could even come close to keeping up with. I have one Imperial Clover plot that's maybe 1/4 acre if even that large and they never eat it down until late Fall when cool weather stunts the growth. Right now I have a strip of No Plow about 75 yards long and 25 ft wide and it's 8 inches tall on average. It's getting lots of deer useage but nowhere near gone. Some of you guys must be in places with a lot more deer than I have.

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#3187121 - 03/08/13 06:29 AM Re: starting with a pretty much clean slate [Re: Hunter 257W]
Football Hunter
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Registered: 10/22/07
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Loc: Wilson Co/Perry Co

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Hunter 275 ,I agree,especially about clover,it will do fine.But the so called :ice cream" plants,planted in small plots will get killed.Soybeans,stuff like that,and he was talking about starting individual lab lab seeds and setting them out.

Yes my place is around a lot of deer in Perry co,there is nothing 8 inches tall now.Wondering if the rye grass in your throw and grow is what the deer is not eating?
_________________________
The best day to plant a tree,IS TODAY!

You wont know,if you dont go!


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#3187354 - 03/08/13 10:41 AM Re: starting with a pretty much clean slate [Re: Football Hunter]
Hunter 257W
10 Point


Registered: 10/04/12
Posts: 3068
Loc: Franklin County

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 Originally Posted By: Football Hunter
Hunter 275 ,I agree,especially about clover,it will do fine.But the so called :ice cream" plants,planted in small plots will get killed.Soybeans,stuff like that,and he was talking about starting individual lab lab seeds and setting them out.

Yes my place is around a lot of deer in Perry co,there is nothing 8 inches tall now.Wondering if the rye grass in your throw and grow is what the deer is not eating?


Yeah, I agree for sure that trying individual LabLab plants is an adventure in frustration but I haven't experienced anything getting eaten to the ground like some of you guys do. I guess I'm just a little envious.

The particular plant variety still surviving, for the most part, in my No Plow are the brassicas. BUT, they are eating the brassicas for the 1st time ever so I'm happy about that. I was just about to mark them off my food plot list for good if I didn't see more useage this year. What is odd is that they are eating the flower off the top of the stalk more than the leaves. They are eating a fair number of leaves though. One end of the plot they have gnawed the stalks down to just a broom handle sized nub poking out of the ground 2 or 3 inches. The thing that drives me crazy though is that I have another plot of No Plow about 1/4 mile away that has hardly been touched.

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#3187359 - 03/08/13 10:47 AM Re: starting with a pretty much clean slate [Re: Football Hunter]
45min. to the stand
Spike


Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 35
Loc: TN

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hmmmm.... yep... It is a lot of seed, but I was planning on planting it and then caging over teh two rows. The idea was to plant the lablab in 2 strips 3 ft wide, 100 ft long and then take (2) 4x100 ft. rolls of welded cage and bow it up over the young plants, allowing them to grow up through the cage and use it for climbing structure as well as a few bamboo poles going through the cages.

good idea? think it might work to help protect the young sprouts? I'll just wait until May to put it out anyway- want it to last as much time as it can.

and I believe we will be discing under 3 acres of teh big field, planting it in buckwheat, and than disc that in come fall and go with a clover/ chicory mix in 1.5 acres of it and brassicas in 1.5 acres of it.

It sure is hard to be patient... Im just so excited to start improving this habitat. Bedding area all over- both tall grass and thick in the briars, year round spring/ streams, few predators... working farms all around us...


Edited by 45min. to the stand (03/08/13 10:54 AM)

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#3187491 - 03/08/13 01:39 PM Re: starting with a pretty much clean slate [Re: 45min. to the stand]
Hunter 257W
10 Point


Registered: 10/04/12
Posts: 3068
Loc: Franklin County

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The cage made of woven cattle wire will keep deer off whatever you have growing under it. That's what The Wildlife Group recommends to get a new stand of honeysuckle going. Once the plants start to grow through the wire, deer will eat that part of the plant and that part only. That keeps it from being grazed down to the point that new growth is stunted. I've got 6 Strawberry bushes in wire cages with this same deer useage in mind. So far - 2 years - it's worked as planned. Anything they can reach gets eaten while the bushes continue to fill out inside the cage.

The only problem I see is the amount of extra work you are going to have to do to grow LabLAb in pots then transplant it. I don't think you'll gain that much growth compared to just waiting until May to plant it in the field and then put the wire over it.

Also when it comes to planting a new food plot in a field with existing grass, take it from somebody who has learned the hard way, it's a LOT cheaper to wait one planting season before starting so you can spray with a cheap RoundUp type spray repeatedly and kill everything. Once you plant your food plot and get a partial stand with grass mixed in, you have to use a selective herbicid to kill the grass and not harm your food plot. I've got 4 acres of Alfa Rack (Whitetail Institute) that I planted in a field that had been fescue pasture about 25 years. I have had to spray it once for broadleaf weeds and twice for grass at about $175 per pop. If I had just waited and hit it twice with RoundUp in the 1st place it sure would have been cheaper! But I fully understand being impatient and enthusiastic about deer habitat improvement so I don't want to discourage you. \:\)

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#3187807 - 03/08/13 08:33 PM Re: starting with a pretty much clean slate [Re: Hunter 257W]
45min. to the stand
Spike


Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 35
Loc: TN

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Well...in the big field, the one currently just in overgrown pasture- I think i have enough time to spray round up, disc, wait a couple weeks, spray again then go in and plant. In that case i can probably "layer" the plot in the big field with the lablab planted straight in there and cage over it- pretty much a row covered in cage and following the curve of the plot...

We'll see how it goes... Definitely going to continue with another dose of lime and fertilizer pending test results.
I'll be out tomorrow to look for shed and change out the batteries and whatnot. We'll see if they have found the new mineral sites down by the stream yet and take a look at what is in the herd hopefully.

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#3189529 - 03/11/13 08:36 AM Re: starting with a pretty much clean slate [Re: 45min. to the stand]
45min. to the stand
Spike


Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 35
Loc: TN

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OK... went out this weekend to check on things. mixed bag of good news and bad news like anything...

first teh good:
1. current plot is thickening up and greening up well- still plenty of turnips and other forage until the clover and chicory comes in...

top field:






2. BAM! I love it when nature does its thing for me- clover and chicory coming up in the newly cleared and planted kill plot:







cant wait for this to become a carpet of clover...



3. As you can see, we got out some feeders also- mix of corn and roasted soybean. just a little supplemental feeding as new crops come in.

Now the Bad:

1. Looks like I was wrong about it being the squirrels getting into the blackberry bush roots- Its much worse than that:



They have not been able to figure out the tomato cage and paracord yet, but I know it is just a matter of time.

2. This one sucks:



coyote. looks like we have a little predator business to take care of. I knew they were out there- I hear them when I am camping.



and a parting note: If you build it, they will come. She does look healthy walking through the new plot on her way to the lick at 7pm (ish)...




and teh really good part- while we were out there, it was decided that we would plow in a few acres of the big unplanted pasture and put in row crops- my lablab, some soy, etc. after we run a season of buckwheat and plow it under. Looks like it might shape up to be a good fall if the fates will allow.


Edited by 45min. to the stand (03/11/13 02:15 PM)

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#3210217 - 04/01/13 09:34 AM Re: starting with a pretty much clean slate [Re: 45min. to the stand]
45min. to the stand
Spike


Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 35
Loc: TN

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add a little moisture and a little warmth and all the sudden my seeds start to do their thing!






young chicory coming up on the section of road I planted...



and the top field is getting hammered... young chicory and poop:


fresh ladino coming in:



and some of the visitors...










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#3228494 - 04/22/13 09:37 AM Re: starting with a pretty much clean slate [Re: 45min. to the stand]
45min. to the stand
Spike


Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 35
Loc: TN

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the rye is coming up and covering the young clover and chicory well... and it looks like with all the tender shoots, they have been laying off the fields a little bit.

thoughts? What do I do now other than wait for November???

Im planning on cleaning up the mayapple section and put some more seed in there in a month or so and then starting stand construction...

Here's the little kill plot:














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#3228496 - 04/22/13 09:39 AM Re: starting with a pretty much clean slate [Re: 45min. to the stand]
45min. to the stand
Spike


Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 35
Loc: TN

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and teh bigger field:










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#3230359 - 04/24/13 11:32 AM Re: starting with a pretty much clean slate [Re: 45min. to the stand]
Crosshairy
10 Point


Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 2657
Loc: Bartlett, TN

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It's awesome to see someone getting to experiment with all this stuff and be able to see the impact of a little time progression. I just now looked at this thread, and it was a fun read \:\)

best of luck with your endeavors. I can easily see myself being in your same position down the road if I can ever scrape together the dough to make a land purchase.

Best of luck with it. I hope to hear about a bunch of deer coming off your place \:\)
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#3244629 - 05/11/13 10:50 PM Re: starting with a pretty much clean slate [Re: Crosshairy]
45min. to the stand
Spike


Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 35
Loc: TN

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and from today:
top field:







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#3244630 - 05/11/13 10:51 PM Re: starting with a pretty much clean slate [Re: 45min. to the stand]
45min. to the stand
Spike


Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 35
Loc: TN

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and the little plot:





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#3245058 - 05/12/13 08:16 PM Re: starting with a pretty much clean slate [Re: 45min. to the stand]
alpha sniper
Spike


Registered: 10/02/10
Posts: 25
Loc: Tennessee

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those plots look nice and thick! i am kinda new to the food plot thing i planted some clover last year and i was wondering are you suppose to cut it? the clover is 1 to 3 inchs tall but grass is probably 7 to 10 inchs tall? so should i cut it or just leave it? my dad has a friend and his clover is about 9 inches tall! is it that tall because he cut it or just let it to grow?
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#3245476 - 05/13/13 01:18 PM Re: starting with a pretty much clean slate [Re: alpha sniper]
Football Hunter
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Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 25462
Loc: Wilson Co/Perry Co

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 Originally Posted By: alpha sniper
those plots look nice and thick! i am kinda new to the food plot thing i planted some clover last year and i was wondering are you suppose to cut it? the clover is 1 to 3 inchs tall but grass is probably 7 to 10 inchs tall? so should i cut it or just leave it? my dad has a friend and his clover is about 9 inches tall! is it that tall because he cut it or just let it to grow?
Most people Ive heard recommend mowing in mid June
_________________________
The best day to plant a tree,IS TODAY!

You wont know,if you dont go!


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#3245478 - 05/13/13 01:19 PM Re: starting with a pretty much clean slate [Re: Football Hunter]
Football Hunter
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Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 25462
Loc: Wilson Co/Perry Co

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45 minutes.......putting out some more seed,"in a couple months" may be a big waste of time,unless we have a wet summer.You may wanna wait till fall.JMO
_________________________
The best day to plant a tree,IS TODAY!

You wont know,if you dont go!


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#3246765 - 05/14/13 10:22 PM Re: starting with a pretty much clean slate [Re: Football Hunter]
AllOutdoors
10 Point


Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 3424
Loc: Tennessee

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 Originally Posted By: Football Hunter
45 minutes.......putting out some more seed,"in a couple months" may be a big waste of time,unless we have a wet summer.You may wanna wait till fall.JMO


Agreed!
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