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#3167275 - 02/17/13 12:45 PM Re: Some Ames Stats... [Re: Bone Collector]
Andy S.
TnDeer Old Timer
14 Point


Registered: 07/26/99
Posts: 7853
Loc: Atoka, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Bone Collector
...but that is alot of deer.
Our doe kill this year of 143 may be the least we have killed in the last decade. When we first started shooting the does hard, back in 2004-2006, we had at least two seasons where we killed 225 or so does. It didn't take much of that to make our does hide like no other, especially in the easier to access areas. A hunter can still go deep off the beaten path and see 10-15 does a morning in November, but typically these spots are too much work for many members to pull the trigger on a doe, thus the does appear to be more visible in these areas during daylight.


Edited by Andy S. (02/17/13 12:48 PM)
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Andy S.

If I had saved all the money I spent on hunting, I'd spend it on hunting.

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#3167560 - 02/17/13 05:26 PM Re: Some Ames Stats... [Re: Mike Belt]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65056
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Mike Belt
BSK---
I see your point. The button buck/antlerless kill should be represented as 15-17% of the kill. Still way too high (IMO) for an experienced QDM club.


Without question Mike, 17% of the antlerless kill being young bucks is too high for an experienced QDM club.
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#3167563 - 02/17/13 05:29 PM Re: Some Ames Stats... [Re: Mike Belt]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65056
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Mike Belt
The idea that any penalty for killing excessive button bucks may decrease the overall doe kill numbers is valid...to a point. I could understand that concept on public land or anywhere that John Q. was hunting. For a QDM oriented club, and particularly for one that has maintained it's core membership for several years, I would like to think that those hunters were at a different level.


Honestly, I've seen it just the opposite. QDM hunters are far more interested in shooting big bucks than any deer. Impose a penalty for shooting a button buck--especially any penalty that limits their opportunity to shoot a buck--and QDM hunters will flat stop shooting does. John Q. Public really couldn't care as much, as any deer makes them happy.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3167799 - 02/17/13 08:08 PM Re: Some Ames Stats... [Re: Mike Belt]
Boone 58
16 Point


Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 14788
Loc: Food Plot

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Button heads are so hard to avoid because they are just so hard to see them. I shot one this time at 45 yards thinking it was a doe with my bow and wouldnt you know..........i hate that. I never intentionally shoot a button head but we still have it happen every year. I really avoid shooting "lone" deer, because more times than not a single deer is a young loner buck. Very high % of the time. Thanks for sharing , very interesting data.
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#3169997 - 02/19/13 06:24 PM Re: Some Ames Stats... [Re: Boone 58]
fairchaser
8 Point


Registered: 09/13/11
Posts: 1193
Loc: TN, USA

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That's one way to increase the membership at Ames. Currently we have fines for not shooting enough does or for shooting too small a buck, fines for not signing in and fines for not signing out. Fines for improperly filling out an observation form and fines for not filling out a form. Fines for parking in the wrong place and fines for riding an Atv on the wrong road. Fines for riding an atv on the right rd for the right reason but the wrong time of day. We have fines for just about everything already so lets add fines for shooting button bucks too. Every hunter who shot a bb this year regrets it. Can't we let it slide with a verbal slap on the wrist for one year?
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#3170104 - 02/19/13 07:51 PM Re: Some Ames Stats... [Re: fairchaser]
Andy S.
TnDeer Old Timer
14 Point


Registered: 07/26/99
Posts: 7853
Loc: Atoka, TN

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 Originally Posted By: fairchaser
That's one way to increase the membership at Ames.
Who said we want to increase it? \:D I like it just the way it is. Plenty of great hunters, but not overly crowded, with plenty of woods to roam in.

 Originally Posted By: fairchaser
Currently we have fines for not shooting enough does or for shooting too small a buck, fines for not signing in and fines for not signing out. Fines for improperly filling out an observation form and fines for not filling out a form. Fines for parking in the wrong place and fines for riding an Atv on the wrong road. Fines for riding an atv on the right rd for the right reason but the wrong time of day.
These fines are spelled out in the contract that we all sign year in and year out before we choose to participate in the Ames hunting club. Knowing this, I do not see how any gripe about our fines is warranted.

 Originally Posted By: fairchaser
Every hunter who shot a bb this year regrets it.
I believe this to some degree, but you will never make me believe the members who shot multiple buttons, and furthermore, those who have shot multiple buttons over the course of several years are a bit remorseful. I just ain't buying it with the type of seasoned hunters we have. I have no problem with the members who goofed once, like I did few years back, but repeat offenders need "something" to get their attention. Fines may not be the answer, but neither is the current method of just sweeping it under the rug. At a minimum, I think Ames needs to rehash button buck identification and place emphasis on us doing better at our annual supper this fall. My .02
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Andy S.

If I had saved all the money I spent on hunting, I'd spend it on hunting.

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#3171191 - 02/20/13 07:19 PM Re: Some Ames Stats... [Re: Andy S.]
fairchaser
8 Point


Registered: 09/13/11
Posts: 1193
Loc: TN, USA

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 Originally Posted By: Andy S.
 Originally Posted By: fairchaser
That's one way to increase the membership at Ames.
Who said we want to increase it? \:D I like it just the way it is. Plenty of great hunters, but not overly crowded, with plenty of woods to roam in.

 Originally Posted By: fairchaser
Currently we have fines for not shooting enough does or for shooting too small a buck, fines for not signing in and fines for not signing out. Fines for improperly filling out an observation form and fines for not filling out a form. Fines for parking in the wrong place and fines for riding an Atv on the wrong road. Fines for riding an atv on the right rd for the right reason but the wrong time of day.
These fines are spelled out in the contract that we all sign year in and year out before we choose to participate in the Ames hunting club. Knowing this, I do not see how any gripe about our fines is warranted.

 Originally Posted By: fairchaser
Every hunter who shot a bb this year regrets it.
I believe this to some degree, but you will never make me believe the members who shot multiple buttons, and furthermore, those who have shot multiple buttons over the course of several years are a bit remorseful. I just ain't buying it with the type of seasoned hunters we have. I have no problem with the members who goofed once, like I did few years back, but repeat offenders need "something" to get their attention. Fines may not be the answer, but neither is the current method of just sweeping it under the rug. At a minimum, I think Ames needs to rehash button buck identification and place emphasis on us doing better at our annual supper this fall. My .02


My hunting buddy shot two bb this season and beat himself up both times badly. I know cause I had to hear about it. But I agree that we need a refresher on bb identification. I am absolutely sure we will get a talking to whether we want it or not. The only reason I want more members is to assure the continuation of the program. Otherwise I had my toes stepped on more than once this season by other hunters. I signed up for all the possible fines but the last thing we need are more rules and fines. Just my humble opinion.
_________________________
"I always wanted to do something that was unequivocal" Charles Morris played by Anthony Hopkins in the movie the Edge.

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#3171484 - 02/21/13 12:51 AM Re: Some Ames Stats... [Re: fairchaser]
Andy S.
TnDeer Old Timer
14 Point


Registered: 07/26/99
Posts: 7853
Loc: Atoka, TN

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 Originally Posted By: fairchaser
My hunting buddy shot two bb this season and beat himself up both times badly. I know cause I had to hear about it.
I believe this 100% because I know you and your group are great people as well as great assets to the Ames hunting club.

 Originally Posted By: fairchaser
But I agree that we need a refresher on bb identification.
Yes indeed.

 Originally Posted By: fairchaser
I am absolutely sure we will get a talking to whether we want it or not.
I believe you are correct about this. \:\)

 Originally Posted By: fairchaser
The only reason I want more members is to assure the continuation of the program.
In this case, I'd be all for more members before I would be so selfish as to cause the club to fold.

 Originally Posted By: fairchaser
I signed up for all the possible fines but the last thing we need are more rules and fines. Just my humble opinion.
I am certainly not for more fines, but it would not bother me if the fine was warranted. I see rules and fines at Ames similar to the speed limit in our every day life. While I do not always agree with the speed limit, and rarely do I get a speeding ticket, when I do, it is usually 100% warranted based on my oversight and lack of focus at that moment. My .02
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Andy S.

If I had saved all the money I spent on hunting, I'd spend it on hunting.

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#3171527 - 02/21/13 05:37 AM Re: Some Ames Stats... [Re: BSK]
Layne
4 Point


Registered: 08/04/08
Posts: 155
Loc: Eads TN

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: Mike Belt
The idea that any penalty for killing excessive button bucks may decrease the overall doe kill numbers is valid...to a point. I could understand that concept on public land or anywhere that John Q. was hunting. For a QDM oriented club, and particularly for one that has maintained it's core membership for several years, I would like to think that those hunters were at a different level.


Honestly, I've seen it just the opposite. QDM hunters are far more interested in shooting big bucks than any deer. Impose a penalty for shooting a button buck--especially any penalty that limits their opportunity to shoot a buck--and QDM hunters will flat stop shooting does. John Q. Public really couldn't care as much, as any deer makes them happy.


I agree, it's not worth paying a fine for a doe, a lot of hunters will stop shooting does. Fortunately I haven't shot a button on Ames but I've come close. I believe you have to weight the importance of the doe harvest vs saving a few buttons, I think it is reasonable to assume that if you decrease the buttons killed through a fine then you will also decrease the amount of does taken.

Now as for one hunter taking multiple buttons in a season, I do believe that needs addressed in some way. We can all make a mistake but that mistake should lead us to be more diligent the next time we pull the trigger.
Maybe for each button killed a doe is removed from that hunters total which would mean he or she would have to kill two does before they could kill their second buck... just a thought.

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#3171544 - 02/21/13 05:53 AM Re: Some Ames Stats... [Re: Layne]
Andy S.
TnDeer Old Timer
14 Point


Registered: 07/26/99
Posts: 7853
Loc: Atoka, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Layne
Now as for one hunter taking multiple buttons in a season, I do believe that needs addressed in some way. We can all make a mistake but that mistake should lead us to be more diligent the next time we pull the trigger.
My thoughts exactly Layne.
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Andy S.

If I had saved all the money I spent on hunting, I'd spend it on hunting.

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