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#3167005 - 02/17/13 08:45 AM Re: Some Ames Stats... [Re: Andy S.]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65979
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Andy S.
 Originally Posted By: redblood
wow. 46 percent button buck harvest. how does that happen.
Our goal/threshold on buttons is 10% of doe harvest or less. For example, we typically shoot 160-180 does a season, so killing 16-18 button bucks is deemed acceptable if you will. This year we killed 27 buttons. Furthermore, I'm fairly certain we killed 3 spikes, all mistaken for does, thus we killed 30 male deer that were yearlings or buttons.


Andy S.,

You are correct that sub-legal males as a percent of the total antlerless harvest is the proper measuring device. If the numbers posted by Mike are correct (26 button bucks, 3 spikes, and 143 females in the antlerless harvest, for a total antlerless harvest of 172), the button buck and spike kills make up 17% of the antlerless harvest. That's certainly above what you would want to see, but not disastrously high.
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#3167007 - 02/17/13 08:49 AM Re: Some Ames Stats... [Re: Mike Belt]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65979
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Mike Belt
if a group of hunters under a management scenario and have been for years can't do any better than 46% of the total harvest being button bucks.


Mike,

The percent of the male harvest that is button bucks is a meaningless number. What if hunters only killed 1 button buck and one antlered buck? One button buck wouldn't be a high button buck kill at all, yet from a total of 2 males killed, button bucks made up 50%. That sounds terrible, but isn't.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3167074 - 02/17/13 09:48 AM Re: Some Ames Stats... [Re: BSK]
BigGameGuy
TWRA Biologist
12 Point


Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 6642
Loc: Nashville

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Mike, what is the total acreage of Ames?
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#3167124 - 02/17/13 10:22 AM Re: Some Ames Stats... [Re: BSK]
redblood
16 Point


Registered: 01/22/06
Posts: 15381
Loc: Lewisburg

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: Mike Belt
if a group of hunters under a management scenario and have been for years can't do any better than 46% of the total harvest being button bucks.


Mike,

The percent of the male harvest that is button bucks is a meaningless number. What if hunters only killed 1 button buck and one antlered buck? One button buck wouldn't be a high button buck kill at all, yet from a total of 2 males killed, button bucks made up 50%. That sounds terrible, but isn't.



maybe not, but if i hunted there (and i dont) i would probably WANT MANAGEMENT to educate hunters of the importance of differentiating between a button buck and a doe. when in doubt....DONT


Edited by redblood (02/17/13 10:23 AM)
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#3167177 - 02/17/13 11:04 AM Re: Some Ames Stats... [Re: redblood]
Mike Belt
TnDeer Old Timer
16 Point


Registered: 03/26/99
Posts: 18623
Loc: Lakeland, Tn.

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BGG---
I think we have about 18,600 acres divided into 5 units (1-5) This year we seemed to distribute the doe and antlerless kill much better than in year's past.
Unit 1..2558 acres..24 deer killed..17% of total harvest
Unit 2..2650 acres..29 deer killed..20% of total harvest
Unit 3..5108 acres..32 deer killed..22% of total harvest
Unit 4..5521 acres..39 deer killed..27% of total harvest
Unit 5..2709 acres..19 deer killed..13% of total harvest

In the past most of our doe kills were represented from areas 3, 4, and 5 which are the only areas we have any agricultural crops. Hunting is somewhat easier in these areas with more access. Areas 1 and 2 have no agriculture and much of the land is cutover regrowth or some stage of pine plantings rendering extremely hard hunting. There is also less access to these 2 areas although some ATV access was made more available this past season which helped to balance our doe kill per area.



BSK---
I see your point. The button buck/antlerless kill should be represented as 15-17% of the kill. Still way too high (IMO) for an experienced QDM club.
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#3167192 - 02/17/13 11:17 AM Re: Some Ames Stats... [Re: Mike Belt]
Mike Belt
TnDeer Old Timer
16 Point


Registered: 03/26/99
Posts: 18623
Loc: Lakeland, Tn.

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The idea that any penalty for killing excessive button bucks may decrease the overall doe kill numbers is valid...to a point. I could understand that concept on public land or anywhere that John Q. was hunting. For a QDM oriented club, and particularly for one that has maintained it's core membership for several years, I would like to think that those hunters were at a different level. I'm not saying that they may be better hunters than John Q. but their mindset when afield should be a little different. Just my opinion...
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#3167193 - 02/17/13 11:17 AM Re: Some Ames Stats... [Re: Andy S.]
scn
16 Point


Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 10449
Loc: Brentwood, TN US

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 Originally Posted By: Andy S.
 Originally Posted By: Mike Belt
Andy...I heard rumors that there may have to be some type of penalty for buttons or at least the repeated event by the same hunter.
I'm all for this. Maybe not a significant fee, but at least something to get one's attention.

 Originally Posted By: Mike Belt
I killed a button last year or the year before so I know it happens...
I've goofed before too. It was late season with a rifle few years back and I was hell-bent on killing a doe that afternoon. A big doe walked out of the pines, followed by a "small/medium sized doe" and then two small fawns came out, all at 100 yards or so through the hardwoods. I never could get a clear shot on the big doe, then they started getting antsy and appeared to be leaving, so I shot the "small/medium sized doe" in a hastily manner. That doe turned out to be a button head. I cussed myself 100 times for that, not so much because I killed a button, but because of my lack of focus and oversight that led to my decision to shoot.

 Originally Posted By: Mike Belt
...but I'd say it's 90% hunter error.
I agree 100%.

 Originally Posted By: Mike Belt
Without having a monetary penalty we might could count a button as one of our legal bucks. Maybe that'd slow it down some.
I'd go along with this especially if it was a hunter's second button. In essence, I'd give a hunter one goof, but the second one would cost him/her.

 Originally Posted By: Mike Belt
By the way, how's that baby girl doing?
She appears to be doing good. We went to her first pediatrician appointment yesterday and he said she looked great and he had no concerns. We still have to go back to the neurologist and neurosurgeon in a few weeks for a follow up. I'm hoping and

praying they give us a good report too. Thanks for asking Mike.


Thanks for the great update on your daughter. Prayers continue.
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#3167225 - 02/17/13 11:51 AM Re: Some Ames Stats... [Re: Andy S.]
Bone Collector
14 Point


Registered: 09/09/09
Posts: 9646
Loc: Murfreesboro, TN

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So I have a couple of questions. I have heard about this Ames Plantation since i got on here, but that is alot of deer.

How many acres is it and how many people hunt it?
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#3167265 - 02/17/13 12:35 PM Re: Some Ames Stats... [Re: BigGameGuy]
Andy S.
TnDeer Old Timer
14 Point


Registered: 07/26/99
Posts: 8090
Loc: Atoka, TN

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 Originally Posted By: BigGameGuy
Mike, what is the total acreage of Ames?
18,600 acres, with about 13,600 open for hunting to members.


Edited by Andy S. (02/17/13 01:00 PM)
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Andy S.

If I had saved all the money I spent on hunting, I'd spend it on hunting.

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#3167271 - 02/17/13 12:40 PM Re: Some Ames Stats... [Re: Bone Collector]
Andy S.
TnDeer Old Timer
14 Point


Registered: 07/26/99
Posts: 8090
Loc: Atoka, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Bone Collector
... how many people hunt it?
Membership this past season was right at 70 members. Ames employees that deer hunt add another 5 hunters or so, and they sometimes bring guests. The most I recall seeing out there this past fall was 50 or so at the same time, and that is typically opening weekend of muzzleloader, opening rifle, or Thanksgiving weekend.
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Andy S.

If I had saved all the money I spent on hunting, I'd spend it on hunting.

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