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#3166239 - 02/16/13 01:34 PM Some Ames Stats...
Mike Belt
TnDeer Old Timer
16 Point


Registered: 03/26/99
Posts: 18623
Loc: Lakeland, Tn.

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Harvest Records For 2012

Does:

Age/ Average Weight/ # Killed
-1.5/ 41.7/ 20
1.5/ 69.2/ 29
2.5/ 80.5/ 25
3.5/ 87.6/ 38
4.5/ 92.0/ 21
5.5/ 85.7/ 10

Bucks:

Age/ Average Weight/ # Killed/ Average Score
-1.5/ 49.2/ 26/
1.5/ 86.6/ 3/ Spikes
2.5/ 130.3/ 3/ 116.7
3.5/ 142.4/ 14/ 127.1
4.5/ 147.6/ 8/ 134.7
5.5/ 149.6/ 3/ 134.9

Observation Data:

Hours Hunted 9964
Shooter Sightings 159 (B&C score of 125 or 4.5+ years)
Other Bucks 2528
Does 4293
Fawns 1234
Unknowns 846
Total Deer 9060
Deer/Hour .91
Bucks/Hour .28
Does/Hour .43
Buck:Doe 1:1.6

The 3 interesting things that jump out at me are:
1)Our 4.5 year old does weighed on average 6.3 pounds more than our 5.5 year old does
2)On average the score on our 5.5 year old bucks only averaged .1 more than our 4.5 year old bucks and only 1 pound heavier
3)We killed too many button bucks. 46% of our buck kill were button bucks




Edited by Mike Belt (02/16/13 01:53 PM)
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#3166289 - 02/16/13 02:34 PM Re: Some Ames Stats... [Re: Mike Belt]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65979
Loc: Nashville, TN

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Fascinating stats Mike. Thanks for posting them.

I'm guessing the listed average weights are field-dressed weights?
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#3166325 - 02/16/13 03:11 PM Re: Some Ames Stats... [Re: BSK]
Andy S.
TnDeer Old Timer
14 Point


Registered: 07/26/99
Posts: 8090
Loc: Atoka, TN

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
I'm guessing the listed average weights are field-dressed weights?
Yes. We rarely have a hunter that is gung-ho enough to bring a deer in whole. With that said, Ames biologists and staff have encouraged us to do so, mainly so we could start obtaining localized data of weight on hoof versus field dressed weight.
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Andy S.

If I had saved all the money I spent on hunting, I'd spend it on hunting.

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#3166326 - 02/16/13 03:15 PM Re: Some Ames Stats... [Re: Mike Belt]
Andy S.
TnDeer Old Timer
14 Point


Registered: 07/26/99
Posts: 8090
Loc: Atoka, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Mike Belt
We killed too many button bucks. 46% of our buck kill were button bucks.
Yes indeed. I hope Ames' biologists revisit the subtle differences at the supper this fall so the membership as a whole can brush up on deciphering buttons versus yearling does, especially during late season.
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Andy S.

If I had saved all the money I spent on hunting, I'd spend it on hunting.

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#3166338 - 02/16/13 03:22 PM Re: Some Ames Stats... [Re: Andy S.]
redblood
16 Point


Registered: 01/22/06
Posts: 15381
Loc: Lewisburg

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wow. 46 percent button buck harvest. how does that happen.
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#3166346 - 02/16/13 03:35 PM Re: Some Ames Stats... [Re: redblood]
Andy S.
TnDeer Old Timer
14 Point


Registered: 07/26/99
Posts: 8090
Loc: Atoka, TN

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 Originally Posted By: redblood
wow. 46 percent button buck harvest. how does that happen.
Our goal/threshold on buttons is 10% of doe harvest or less. For example, we typically shoot 160-180 does a season, so killing 16-18 button bucks is deemed acceptable if you will. This year we killed 27 buttons. Furthermore, I'm fairly certain we killed 3 spikes, all mistaken for does, thus we killed 30 male deer that were yearlings or buttons. The reason this kill makes up 47% of the overall buck kill is because we typically only kill 25 or so shooters total all season (>125" gross or 4.5 yrs old) and maybe 3-5 bucks that were mistaken for shooters but came up short. So in a nutshell, our "shooter" buck harvest is around 25 bucks or so each fall, 5 bucks by mistake, and this year we had 27 buttons killed as well, thus resulting in 46% of the buck harvest. I do not have all of the data in front of me, so I could be off by a few here and there, but this is pretty close as far as the big picture goes. Hope this helps.
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Andy S.

If I had saved all the money I spent on hunting, I'd spend it on hunting.

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#3166361 - 02/16/13 03:59 PM Re: Some Ames Stats... [Re: Andy S.]
Mike Belt
TnDeer Old Timer
16 Point


Registered: 03/26/99
Posts: 18623
Loc: Lakeland, Tn.

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Andy...I heard rumors that there may have to be some type of penalty for buttons or at least the repeated event by the same hunter. I killed a button last year or the year before so I know it happens but I'd say it's 90% hunter error. That other 10% is our 10% margin which is acceptable. Maybe there needs to be a penalty if a group of hunters under a management scenario and have been for years can't do any better than 46% of the total harvest being button bucks. I think that for the same reason that the bucks under our minimum are killed we're killing so many buttons...some people feel like they just have to kill something and shoot first and then ground check. Without having a monetary penalty we might could count a button as one of our legal bucks. Maybe that'd slow it down some.

By the way, how's that baby girl doing?


Edited by Mike Belt (02/16/13 04:00 PM)
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#3166390 - 02/16/13 04:24 PM Re: Some Ames Stats... [Re: Andy S.]
redblood
16 Point


Registered: 01/22/06
Posts: 15381
Loc: Lewisburg

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 Originally Posted By: Andy S.
 Originally Posted By: redblood
wow. 46 percent button buck harvest. how does that happen.
Our goal/threshold on buttons is 10% of doe harvest or less. For example, we typically shoot 160-180 does a season, so killing 16-18 button bucks is deemed acceptable if you will. This year we killed 27 buttons. Furthermore, I'm fairly certain we killed 3 spikes, all mistaken for does, thus we killed 30 male deer that were yearlings or buttons. The reason this kill makes up 47% of the overall buck kill is because we typically only kill 25 or so shooters total all season (>125" gross or 4.5 yrs old) and maybe 3-5 bucks that were mistaken for shooters but came up short. So in a nutshell, our "shooter" buck harvest is around 25 bucks or so each fall, 5 bucks by mistake, and this year we had 27 buttons killed as well, thus resulting in 46% of the buck harvest. I do not have all of the data in front of me, so I could be off by a few here and there, but this is pretty close as far as the big picture goes. Hope this helps.





were most killed on the juvy hunts? i wouldnt expect experienced qdm hunters to make that error at such a high frequency
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#3166397 - 02/16/13 04:26 PM Re: Some Ames Stats... [Re: Mike Belt]
Andy S.
TnDeer Old Timer
14 Point


Registered: 07/26/99
Posts: 8090
Loc: Atoka, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Mike Belt
Andy...I heard rumors that there may have to be some type of penalty for buttons or at least the repeated event by the same hunter.
I'm all for this. Maybe not a significant fee, but at least something to get one's attention.

 Originally Posted By: Mike Belt
I killed a button last year or the year before so I know it happens...
I've goofed before too. It was late season with a rifle few years back and I was hell-bent on killing a doe that afternoon. A big doe walked out of the pines, followed by a "small/medium sized doe" and then two small fawns came out, all at 100 yards or so through the hardwoods. I never could get a clear shot on the big doe, then they started getting antsy and appeared to be leaving, so I shot the "small/medium sized doe" in a hastily manner. That doe turned out to be a button head. I cussed myself 100 times for that, not so much because I killed a button, but because of my lack of focus and oversight that led to my decision to shoot.

 Originally Posted By: Mike Belt
...but I'd say it's 90% hunter error.
I agree 100%.

 Originally Posted By: Mike Belt
Without having a monetary penalty we might could count a button as one of our legal bucks. Maybe that'd slow it down some.
I'd go along with this especially if it was a hunter's second button. In essence, I'd give a hunter one goof, but the second one would cost him/her.

 Originally Posted By: Mike Belt
By the way, how's that baby girl doing?
She appears to be doing good. We went to her first pediatrician appointment yesterday and he said she looked great and he had no concerns. We still have to go back to the neurologist and neurosurgeon in a few weeks for a follow up. I'm hoping and praying they give us a good report too. Thanks for asking Mike.
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Andy S.

If I had saved all the money I spent on hunting, I'd spend it on hunting.

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#3166405 - 02/16/13 04:33 PM Re: Some Ames Stats... [Re: redblood]
Andy S.
TnDeer Old Timer
14 Point


Registered: 07/26/99
Posts: 8090
Loc: Atoka, TN

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 Originally Posted By: redblood
were most killed on the juvy hunts?
I do not have the harvest data in front of me, but I'd bet not.

 Originally Posted By: redblood
..i wouldnt expect experienced qdm hunters to make that error at such a high frequency
Tell me about it. Like I said, our threshold this year would have been 16 buttons, or 10% of the doe harvest, but we blew that out of the water and shot 27 buttons, in addition to 3 spikes. If I am not mistaken, this is the most buttons we have killed in a single season in a decade. There may have been one other season where we killed this many, but that season may have been one of the few we knocked down 225+ does too, thus making the number of buttons a little more acceptable if you will.
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Andy S.

If I had saved all the money I spent on hunting, I'd spend it on hunting.

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