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#3164362 - 02/14/13 08:20 PM Re: Tennessee Senate approves guns-in-parking-lots bil [Re: MUP]
-DRM-
6 Point


Registered: 08/21/12
Posts: 768
Loc: Spring Hill, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: MUP
I'm of the opinion, and lets face it DRM, yours is the same, opinion, that it's one right vs another right. Do you agree with this statement? I'm of the belief that the 2nd A guarantees me the right to keep and bear arms, period.


Simple question:

Do you believe you have the right to ask me to leave *your* property if I have a gun in my car or on my person?
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~DRM~

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#3164363 - 02/14/13 08:22 PM Re: Tennessee Senate approves guns-in-parking-lots bil [Re: Daff]
-DRM-
6 Point


Registered: 08/21/12
Posts: 768
Loc: Spring Hill, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Daff
Aside from all this argument about the bill the more important question is...By What authority can my employer search my personal vehicle?


I've been pretty clear all along - I think a property owner (you, me, FedEx, or the mall) should only have one recourse: they can ask you to leave their property.

So no, I do not think anyone should be able to "search" another man's property. I consider that an unreasonable violation of property rights.
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~DRM~

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#3164394 - 02/14/13 08:49 PM Re: Tennessee Senate approves guns-in-parking-lots bil [Re: -DRM-]
Bowdacious
Skillet
16 Point


Registered: 09/01/00
Posts: 16102
Loc: over here

Offline
 Originally Posted By: -DRM-
 Originally Posted By: Daff
Aside from all this argument about the bill the more important question is...By What authority can my employer search my personal vehicle?


I've been pretty clear all along - I think a property owner (you, me, FedEx, or the mall) should only have one recourse: they can ask you to leave their property.

So no, I do not think anyone should be able to "search" another man's property. I consider that an unreasonable violation of property rights.

Well, my employer can and has. It is in the handbook. Lockers are locked with their locks, purses and jackets are searched when you go out the door and they can search your vehicle. If they search and you have a gun locked away, you are terminated. I am unarmed to and from work because of it.
_________________________
Disagreeing with me doesn't make me any less right

There is a difference between being proud and being conceited

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#3164404 - 02/14/13 09:00 PM Re: Tennessee Senate approves guns-in-parking-lots bil [Re: -DRM-]
westtntoms
8 Point


Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 1540
Loc: Collierville, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: -DRM-
 Originally Posted By: MUP
I'm of the opinion, and lets face it DRM, yours is the same, opinion, that it's one right vs another right. Do you agree with this statement? I'm of the belief that the 2nd A guarantees me the right to keep and bear arms, period.


Simple question:

Do you believe you have the right to ask me to leave *your* property if I have a gun in my car or on my person?


I believe I have the right to ask you to leave my property regardless of whether or not you have a gun. Me having a gun is my right whether I'm on your property or mine. The 2nd amendment doesn't state I can only have a gun on my property, it says I can have a gun, period. If someone wants me off their property all they gotta do is say so. Laws that state I can't have a gun on Any private property go against the 2nd amendment, period. [/i][i]

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#3164445 - 02/14/13 09:35 PM Re: Tennessee Senate approves guns-in-parking-lots bil [Re: Daff]
TNhunter
TnDeer Old Timer
10 Point


Registered: 11/01/99
Posts: 4374
Loc: Murfreesboro, TN, Rutherford

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Daff
Aside from all this argument about the bill the more important question is...By What authority can my employer search my personal vehicle?


My employer will NEVER search my vehicle without a warrant - period end of story. NEVER EVER!!!!! I will leave the property anytime asked.
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TNhunter


"If there is unrest, the government will seize all the registered guns."

"You need guns and ammo first then everything else."

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#3164558 - 02/15/13 03:09 AM Re: Tennessee Senate approves guns-in-parking-lots bil [Re: TNhunter]
BamaProud
12 Point


Registered: 04/03/11
Posts: 6685
Loc: Shelby County, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: -DRM-
 Originally Posted By: MUP
I'm of the opinion, and lets face it DRM, yours is the same, opinion, that it's one right vs another right. Do you agree with this statement? I'm of the belief that the 2nd A guarantees me the right to keep and bear arms, period.


Simple question:

Do you believe you have the right to ask me to leave *your* property if I have a gun in my car or on my person?


The gun is irrelevant IMO. I have the right to ask you to leave my property for any reason. A business owner, can do the same as long as it is not on a discriminatory basis.
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#3164567 - 02/15/13 04:34 AM Re: Tennessee Senate approves guns-in-parking-lots bil [Re: westtntoms]
MUP
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/01/07
Posts: 44480
Loc: Just North of Chatt-town

Offline
 Originally Posted By: westtntoms
 Originally Posted By: -DRM-
 Originally Posted By: MUP
I'm of the opinion, and lets face it DRM, yours is the same, opinion, that it's one right vs another right. Do you agree with this statement? I'm of the belief that the 2nd A guarantees me the right to keep and bear arms, period.


Simple question:

Do you believe you have the right to ask me to leave *your* property if I have a gun in my car or on my person?


I believe I have the right to ask you to leave my property regardless of whether or not you have a gun. Me having a gun is my right whether I'm on your property or mine. The 2nd amendment doesn't state I can only have a gun on my property, it says I can have a gun, period. If someone wants me off their property all they gotta do is say so. Laws that state I can't have a gun on Any private property go against the 2nd amendment, period. [/i][i]


This pretty much sums up my answer as well DRM. It's pretty clear that we're not going to change one another's viewpoint on this, so best of luck to you as I sign off on this thread. \:\)
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MUP

Amateurs: Built the Ark

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#3179163 - 02/28/13 11:32 AM Re: Tennessee Senate approves guns-in-parking-lots bil [Re: MUP]
-DRM-
6 Point


Registered: 08/21/12
Posts: 768
Loc: Spring Hill, TN

Offline
Since this just passed the Senate, Might as well bring it up again.


I've dome some more chewing on this, and reading, and chewing...


And I think I've come to the conclusion that this bill is actually closer to my line of thinking than I originally thought.


I'm sticking by the concept that when one man's property (car) is parked *ON* another man's property (real estate), the owner of the car does not have the right to force the real estate owner to let them leave a gun in their car and parked *ON* that real estate property. I think this is a key component of the very concept of freedom in this country.

What I do like about this bill though - is that it removes pretty much all CRIMINAL penalties from the offense. As I have said - the ONLY recourse a real estate property owner should have is to say "leave", there should be no recourse available that includes any criminal punishments, unless of course the person refuses to leave the property.

But yet again, it is a shame this will not apply to ALL people, and only applies to permit holders. That part is, well, absurd.

I think if we can get that done, this is a great step in the right direction.


The next complaint really is not a property rights issue, it is an employment contract issue. I think we run a pretty big risk of damaging our "at will" employment arrangement in this state if we start telling an employer what they can and cannot fire someone for, especially when the employer willfully agrees to certain stipulations when they take the job.

I think the second step to resolving this would be to create a law that an employer can not - under any circumstances - search your car. Again, their only recourse should be to ask that it be removed from their property.

Now, it seems to me that if they can't search your car, and you didn't admit you had a gun in it and nobody saw it, then should they chose to terminate your employment for having a gun in your car, you would then have a legal case for wrongful termination. In essence, I see this as more of a "don't ask, don't tell" type arrangement.

Again - I think removing any and all CRIMINAL penalties for having a gun in your car on someone else's property is a GREAT first move.
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~DRM~

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#3179165 - 02/28/13 11:36 AM Re: Tennessee Senate approves guns-in-parking-lots bil [Re: -DRM-]
Hawk
TnDeer Old Timer
12 Point


Registered: 09/03/99
Posts: 6619
Loc: west tenn.

Offline
Just passed in the house with no ammendments. On its way to the Governor's desk.
_________________________
"Sometimes it's not enough to know what things mean, sometimes you have to know what things don't mean."

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#3179167 - 02/28/13 11:38 AM Re: Tennessee Senate approves guns-in-parking-lots bil [Re: woodchuckc]
89cherokeelimited
6 Point


Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 822
Loc: TN, Sumner, Hendersonville

Offline
 Originally Posted By: woodchuckc
 Originally Posted By: Diehard Hunter
 Originally Posted By: BlountArrow
Not to distract the conversation, but did they try to pass this last year and did it fail at some point? Lastly, does anyone know if the wording allows it on federally owned property?


It states anywhere the permit holder is legally allowed to be, except where firearms are prohibited by federal law, like oak ridge and TVA nuclear facilities.

The law they tried to pass last year was to allow college employees to carry on campus if I am not mistaken. It may have been a couple of years ago. Either way, this one backs off the carry into the building idea and allows you to have a gun in your vehicle on campus, locked away out of sight.


Yeah, it is really going to help me to have my gun locked in my car in the parking lot 1/2 mile away when some lunatic busts into my classroom and starts shooting while I'm giving a lecture to 150 students. I guess I could politely ask him to stop while I go get my gun, or just throw some dry erase markers and board erasers at him as they are the only "weapons" I'm allowed. Don't get me wrong, this is a small step in the right direction but I am afraid that once this passes and becomes law, many lawmakers will pat themselves on the back and think the job of restoring ALL of our rights to carry and protect ourselves is done.


Remember the post a few weeks ago where it said get a pair of scissors and catch him off guard. Even though he has a gun homeland security says scissors can be just as effective...
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