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#3162126 - 02/13/13 08:31 AM Re: Change In Hunting Reg's? [Re: Diehard Hunter]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65479
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Diehard Hunter
Give one sound biological reason for a lower buck limit. How will it improve the health of the heard?


I believe lowering the buck limit would produce very little if any biological results or improvements.

That said, I would have no problem with a 2 buck limit. Personally, I've never shot 3 bucks in a single year, and I've been hunting in TN for over 25 years. In fact, I've rarely shot 2 bucks in a year.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3162128 - 02/13/13 08:34 AM Re: Change In Hunting Reg's? [Re: Diehard Hunter]
landman
10 Point


Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 2524
Loc: TN & Western KY

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 Originally Posted By: Diehard Hunter
Give one sound biological reason for a lower buck limit. How will it improve the health of the heard?



Health of the herd?

So If the herd is better this way why are we seeing more out breaks
of EHD in TN, this was 2 out of the last 5.

But do you thing the State of TN Deer are in better health than 10-15 years ago?

I don't care if they go to 1 or better yet, earn a buck tag, kill
a doe before you can kill every buck, sounds good to me
_________________________
"BUY LAND. THEY AIN'T MAKING ANY MORE OF THE STUFF"
- Will Rogers

http://www.JimmySettleLand.com

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#3162134 - 02/13/13 08:39 AM Re: Change In Hunting Reg's? [Re: landman]
Beardendy88
4 Point


Registered: 07/07/12
Posts: 349
Loc: North Alabama

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 Originally Posted By: landman
 Originally Posted By: Diehard Hunter
Give one sound biological reason for a lower buck limit. How will it improve the health of the heard?



Health of the herd?

So If the herd is better this way why are we seeing more out breaks
of EHD in TN, this was 2 out of the last 5.

But do you thing the State of TN Deer are in better health than 10-15 years ago?

I don't care if they go to 1 or better yet, earn a buck tag, kill
a doe before you can kill every buck, sounds good to me

I might be wrong but don't the states in the Midwest that have lower buck limits have more outbreaks of EHD? It seemed like last summer the drury boys were posting a few pictures of deer found dead.

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#3162150 - 02/13/13 08:44 AM Re: Change In Hunting Reg's? [Re: landman]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65479
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: landman
 Originally Posted By: Diehard Hunter
Give one sound biological reason for a lower buck limit. How will it improve the health of the heard?



Health of the herd?

So If the herd is better this way why are we seeing more out breaks
of EHD in TN, this was 2 out of the last 5.


Hemorrhagic Disease (HD) is endemic in the Southeast. Some cases occur every year. Big outbreaks generally only occur when the conditions are just right (few deer with immunity and a hot/dry late summer). HD also has absolutely nothing to do with herd health. It strikes under-populated and over-populated herds equally.

In TN, we've had only one major HD outbreak in the last 6 years (2007). However, southern IL, which supposedly has much healthier deer herds, has seen two outbreaks in the same time-frame. Again, HD outbreaks have nothing to do with herd health.


 Quote:
But do you thing the State of TN Deer are in better health than 10-15 years ago?


Yes, absolutely, but primarily because of the '07 HD outbreak. I was becoming deeply concerned about over-population in some parts of western TN, but the HD outbreak in '07 (which knocked the population down to healthier levels), followed by continued high doe harvests (which prevented the herd from rebounding to the unhealthy pre-HD-outbreak levels) has produced a healthier herd than what we had in '05 and '06.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3162179 - 02/13/13 08:59 AM Re: Change In Hunting Reg's? [Re: ROUGH COUNTRY HUNTER]
mathews338
12 Point


Registered: 11/05/09
Posts: 5141
Loc: jackson co.

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 Originally Posted By: ROUGH COUNTRY HUNTER
i see that alot of you guys believe that a 2 buck limit would have mature bucks behind every tree,not going to happen
no body such a thing, a lot of guys think it well help a little bit. some areas it would help and others you would see very little difference.

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#3162203 - 02/13/13 09:18 AM Re: Change In Hunting Reg's? [Re: BSK]
landman
10 Point


Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 2524
Loc: TN & Western KY

content Online
 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: landman
 Originally Posted By: Diehard Hunter
Give one sound biological reason for a lower buck limit. How will it improve the health of the heard?



Health of the herd?

So If the herd is better this way why are we seeing more out breaks
of EHD in TN, this was 2 out of the last 5.


Hemorrhagic Disease (HD) is endemic in the Southeast. Some cases occur every year. Big outbreaks generally only occur when the conditions are just right (few deer with immunity and a hot/dry late summer). HD also has absolutely nothing to do with herd health. It strikes under-populated and over-populated herds equally.

In TN, we've had only one major HD outbreak in the last 6 years (2007). However, southern IL, which supposedly has much healthier deer herds, has seen two outbreaks in the same time-frame. Again, HD outbreaks have nothing to do with herd health.


 Quote:
But do you thing the State of TN Deer are in better health than 10-15 years ago?


Yes, absolutely, but primarily because of the '07 HD outbreak. I was becoming deeply concerned about over-population in some parts of western TN, but the HD outbreak in '07 (which knocked the population down to healthier levels), followed by continued high doe harvests (which prevented the herd from rebounding to the unhealthy pre-HD-outbreak levels) has produced a healthier herd than what we had in '05 and '06.

We had it again this year in parts of Montgomery and Stewart Counties.
But Isn't most of those Mid-West states deer herd numbers on the rise? I may be wrong about that, you have better data on that I'm sure. Seems to me lower overall deer numbers means less die,
more food, etc. meaning more does need killing. I would be curious how many hunters killed bucks, but didn't shoot a doe.


Its like feeding deer, we will see that in the future I'm sure,
too much money behind it.... And before many start screaming I remember how the words Crossbow was 4-letter, but now.....

_________________________
"BUY LAND. THEY AIN'T MAKING ANY MORE OF THE STUFF"
- Will Rogers

http://www.JimmySettleLand.com

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#3162225 - 02/13/13 09:31 AM Re: Change In Hunting Reg's? [Re: Hollar Hunter]
Bone Collector
14 Point


Registered: 09/09/09
Posts: 9030
Loc: Murfreesboro, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Hollar Hunter
 Originally Posted By: Beardendy88
Why do some want a 2 buck limit? The only difference it will make is on wma's because many of those who own land and hunt (not all) will shot as many as they want. I personally only normally kill 2 a year and rarely kill a third but it's nice to have that in my pocket during late season.


Exactly people who will shoot 2 off the top because they've a 3rd tag would stop them from shooting that 2nd immature buck....


That is completely speculative. People who shoot "immature" bucks do so because they want to and because they don;t care about antlers and just want the meat. They also know you get as much meat off a 1.5 yr old buck as a 3 yr old doe and it doesn't taste any worse.

If they pass and wait for a doe, that opportunity may not come, but this one is here right now, so it pays to take the deer and not take the risk of not seeing a doe. Keep in mind not everyone has high deer densities where they hunt, even in Mid TN.

The guys like you that care about horns won't shoot the first immature buck so it comes down to choice and they should have that choice whether you agree or not.

I hunted Rutherford and Wilson counties this year. I saw lots of spikes and small bucks. I think I saw 10 does total from the stand from the bow opener to the last day. those 10 were seen on 3 separate sits in groups of 3, 4, and 3.


Edited by Bone Collector (02/13/13 09:31 AM)
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#3162242 - 02/13/13 09:38 AM Re: Change In Hunting Reg's? [Re: Bone Collector]
BlountArrow
10 Point


Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 2614
Loc: SouthEast Tenn

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Not arguing here, but we all have to remember the mindset of hunters is also greatly influenced by which Unit they have the opportunity to hunt. I guarantee you the mindset of the Unit B hunter is, in most cases, different from the Unit L hunter. Just saying that's a factor...
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#3162265 - 02/13/13 10:05 AM Re: Change In Hunting Reg's? [Re: BlountArrow]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65479
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: BlountArrow
Not arguing here, but we all have to remember the mindset of hunters is also greatly influenced by which Unit they have the opportunity to hunt. I guarantee you the mindset of the Unit B hunter is, in most cases, different from the Unit L hunter. Just saying that's a factor...


Excellent point. And not only are there different mindsets by location, I've noticed mindsets changing fairly rapidly over time.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3162278 - 02/13/13 10:16 AM Re: Change In Hunting Reg's? [Re: Bone Collector]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65479
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Bone Collector
 Originally Posted By: Hollar Hunter
 Originally Posted By: Beardendy88
Why do some want a 2 buck limit? The only difference it will make is on wma's because many of those who own land and hunt (not all) will shot as many as they want. I personally only normally kill 2 a year and rarely kill a third but it's nice to have that in my pocket during late season.


Exactly people who will shoot 2 off the top because they've a 3rd tag would stop them from shooting that 2nd immature buck....


That is completely speculative. People who shoot "immature" bucks do so because they want to...


Exactly. And what is also speculative and NOT backed up by data is the idea that if we kill less yearlings, we will then kill more older bucks in following years. When TN went from an 11 buck limit down to a 2 buck limit in 1998, we experienced a HUGE decline in yearling bucks killed that year. As the theory goes, hunters should have then killed many more 2 1/2 year-old bucks the following year (1999). But that didn't happen at all. In fact, there was barely even a blip in increase in 2 1/2 year-old bucks killed the next year. In fact, ever since the decline in buck limit in 1998, hunters have been killing far fewer yearling bucks than they used to. Yet older buck harvests have just slowly increased over time, staying on the slow rate of increase that started long before the reduction in buck limit.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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