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#3166044 - 02/16/13 10:16 AM Re: Change In Hunting Reg's? [Re: WestTn Huntin'man]
Diehard Hunter
CRAMP
12 Point


Registered: 08/01/08
Posts: 6734
Loc: East Tennessee

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 Originally Posted By: WestTn Huntin'man
BSK in regards to the earn a buck idea. I know a lot of people that hunt unit L won't kil a doe period but think nothing of shooting 3 bucks. IN your opinon keeping overall herd health in mind. What if the 1st or even 2nd buck did not have to be earned ?? But if you want to shoot a 3rd buck he needs to be earned by shooting a doe or 2 ?? Seems like a fair compromise between the 2 extremes we see so much of on TnDeer and in the General public.


What would stop them from checking in a phantom doe online then hitting the woods for that third buck?
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#3166047 - 02/16/13 10:16 AM Re: Change In Hunting Reg's? [Re: WestTn Huntin'man]
Frank G
8 Point


Registered: 12/20/12
Posts: 1409
Loc: Hardin Co, TN Pickwick Lake

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 Originally Posted By: WestTn Huntin'man
BSK in regards to the earn a buck idea. I know a lot of people that hunt unit L won't kil a doe period but think nothing of shooting 3 bucks. IN your opinon keeping overall herd health in mind. What if the 1st or even 2nd buck did not have to be earned ?? But if you want to shoot a 3rd buck he needs to be earned by shooting a doe or 2 ?? Seems like a fair compromise between the 2 extremes we see so much of on TnDeer and in the General public.


West TN,
Sounds a reasonable compromise to me. I know a number here that “I won’t shoot a doe” and in the next breath “all I see are doe”.
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#3166053 - 02/16/13 10:26 AM Re: Change In Hunting Reg's? [Re: WestTn Huntin'man]
bbuck14
8 Point


Registered: 01/01/13
Posts: 1231
Loc: West Tn.

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Mike Belt I agree with your coments completly. I believe the reason more people are killing big deer themselves is because of the 3 buck limit and the people that are dedicated to shooting big deer only. Some would be amazed what they would actually see if they didn't shoot the first legal buck that walked by. I remember the 11 buck limit myself and we would still kill an occassional big deer but they come alot more frequent now thanks to the 3 buck limit. I would be fine with 2 or less. With that being said I look at it as kids coming up playing sports. Thats why they have travel ball and thats why they have rec league.
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#3166054 - 02/16/13 10:27 AM Re: Change In Hunting Reg's? [Re: Beekeeper]
ImThere
10 Point


Registered: 08/24/06
Posts: 2765
Loc: Lewisburg, Tn

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 Originally Posted By: Beekeeper
 Originally Posted By: ImThere
I say leave well enough alone but with that said.......

Lets call a buck a buck if its got balls its a buck!

I shot 4 bucks last year one with 2" antlers and a button among them i thought they were does at the time but i think they should have counted and one antlered buck would have made it another season
You could have stopped at three. Why didn't you?

I did or i thought i did button got me thanks though for pointing that out
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#3166100 - 02/16/13 11:08 AM Re: Change In Hunting Reg's? [Re: ImThere]
Beekeeper
Good ol' Boys "Team Buckcreek"
16 Point


Registered: 08/26/09
Posts: 11985
Loc: McMinn Co. Tennessee

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 Originally Posted By: ImThere
 Originally Posted By: Beekeeper
 Originally Posted By: ImThere
I say leave well enough alone but with that said.......

Lets call a buck a buck if its got balls its a buck!

I shot 4 bucks last year one with 2" antlers and a button among them i thought they were does at the time but i think they should have counted and one antlered buck would have made it another season
You could have stopped at three. Why didn't you?

I did or i thought i did button got me thanks though for pointing that out
Should you have faced a fine because you shot a "doe" that turned out to be a "button buck"?
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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
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#3166111 - 02/16/13 11:13 AM Re: Change In Hunting Reg's? [Re: Diehard Hunter]
scn
14 Point


Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 9651
Loc: Brentwood, TN US

content Online
 Originally Posted By: Diehard Hunter
 Originally Posted By: WestTn Huntin'man
BSK in regards to the earn a buck idea. I know a lot of people that hunt unit L won't kil a doe period but think nothing of shooting 3 bucks. IN your opinon keeping overall herd health in mind. What if the 1st or even 2nd buck did not have to be earned ?? But if you want to shoot a 3rd buck he needs to be earned by shooting a doe or 2 ?? Seems like a fair compromise between the 2 extremes we see so much of on TnDeer and in the General public.


What would stop them from checking in a phantom doe online then hitting the woods for that third buck?


Under TWRA's current system of check-in, an a earn a buck system would be totally unenforceable. When you add the fact that it is not needed as BSK has pointed out, it has little chance of being recommended by TWRA with the current herd dynamics.


Edited by scn (02/16/13 11:19 AM)
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#3166206 - 02/16/13 01:02 PM Re: Change In Hunting Reg's? [Re: WestTn Huntin'man]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 64800
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: WestTn Huntin'man
BSK in regards to the earn a buck idea. I know a lot of people that hunt unit L won't kil a doe period but think nothing of shooting 3 bucks.


WestTn Huntin'man,

"A lot of people" is a relative term. This idea may be because of the hunters who you associate with (very avid hunters). Again, VERY few hunters actually kill 3 bucks in a given year (just a couple of percent), and the majority of hunters in TN kill no bucks at all in a given year (60-65%). The hunters who don't kill does, but kill a couple of bucks, are then offset by the hunters like DA and few others who kill 15-20 does in a given year.


 Quote:
IN your opinon keeping overall herd health in mind. What if the 1st or even 2nd buck did not have to be earned ?? But if you want to shoot a 3rd buck he needs to be earned by shooting a doe or 2 ?? Seems like a fair compromise between the 2 extremes we see so much of on TnDeer and in the General public.


If this system were biologically necessary (so many hunters refusing to kill does that the adult sex ratio was suffering and deer populations were too high), I would be all for it. However, the best data available does not indicate this is the case. Most of the thermal imaging work the TWRA conducted a few years ago strongly suggested adult sex ratios of 1.4 to 1.7 adult does per adult buck (perfecly biologically adequate), and I've seen no indications of deer overpopulation in the areas of Unit L I have worked in (nor from the biological data collected statewide). Now that was not always true. I was becoming very worried about deer densities in parts of Unit L in '05 and '06, but the '07 EHD outbreak took care of those worries.
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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3166211 - 02/16/13 01:07 PM Re: Change In Hunting Reg's? [Re: Beekeeper]
ImThere
10 Point


Registered: 08/24/06
Posts: 2765
Loc: Lewisburg, Tn

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Beekeeper
 Originally Posted By: ImThere
 Originally Posted By: Beekeeper
 Originally Posted By: ImThere
I say leave well enough alone but with that said.......

Lets call a buck a buck if its got balls its a buck!

I shot 4 bucks last year one with 2" antlers and a button among them i thought they were does at the time but i think they should have counted and one antlered buck would have made it another season
You could have stopped at three. Why didn't you?

I did or i thought i did button got me thanks though for pointing that out
Should you have faced a fine because you shot a "doe" that turned out to be a "button buck"?

Probably but im glad i didnt \:\)
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Team Run 'N Gunners

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#3166213 - 02/16/13 01:08 PM Re: Change In Hunting Reg's? [Re: Diehard Hunter]
WestTn Huntin'man
16 Point


Registered: 11/19/06
Posts: 11944
Loc: Benton Co.

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 Originally Posted By: Diehard Hunter
 Originally Posted By: WestTn Huntin'man
BSK in regards to the earn a buck idea. I know a lot of people that hunt unit L won't kil a doe period but think nothing of shooting 3 bucks. IN your opinon keeping overall herd health in mind. What if the 1st or even 2nd buck did not have to be earned ?? But if you want to shoot a 3rd buck he needs to be earned by shooting a doe or 2 ?? Seems like a fair compromise between the 2 extremes we see so much of on TnDeer and in the General public.


What would stop them from checking in a phantom doe online then hitting the woods for that third buck?

IMO
Most Hunters are honest and try to follow the rules and regs. The ones that are not honest are going to do what they want irregardless of the regs. The recent arrests at Ft Campbell are a good example of this.
I see compromise as a give and take type deal. A lot of hunters don't want to shoot anything unless it's a 3.5 year old 8pt or better.Some are if it's brown it's meat and it's down.Hunters fighting each other will always hurt hunting more than the anti's.We all need to be more open minded and work together.
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Proverbs 3:27 Whenever you possibly can, do good to those who need it

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#3166226 - 02/16/13 01:24 PM Re: Change In Hunting Reg's? [Re: bbuck14]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 64800
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: bbuck14
Mike Belt I agree with your coments completly. I believe the reason more people are killing big deer themselves is because of the 3 buck limit and the people that are dedicated to shooting big deer only. Some would be amazed what they would actually see if they didn't shoot the first legal buck that walked by. I remember the 11 buck limit myself and we would still kill an occassional big deer but they come alot more frequent now thanks to the 3 buck limit. I would be fine with 2 or less.


I completely agree that the reason we are killing more big bucks is because there are more older bucks in the woods. But I strongly believe (and have the data to back up the idea) that is wasn't the 2 and then 3 buck limit that has caused this improvement in the number of older bucks. It is a combination of hunters voluntarily passing up young bucks and the PERCEPTION of the low buck limit working.

Hunters started to notice more older bucks in the population about the time the buck limit was lowered, hence they believed, and still believe, it was the lower limit that produced these older bucks. Yet the data is quite clear that this improvement in buck age structure actually started several years before the limit was lowered and continued after the limit was lowered with no improvements due specifically to the lower limit. In essence, the buck age structure was already getting better before the limit was lowered and would have continued improving without the lower limit.

But that said, i do give credit for this perception that the lower limits were working in convincing more hunters to voluntarily pass young bucks. In the early years of preaching QDM to hunters, the most common reason for hunters to not participate was their belief that it would never work. That every young buck they passed up would just be shot by a neighbor. Yet once the lower limit gave these hunters confidence that some of these passed young bucks would live another year, they believed passing young bucks was worth the effort. Basically, the lower limit became a self-fulfilling prophecy--it gave hunters the courage to pass young bucks which DID produce more older bucks, therefore, in a round about way, it did help increase buck age structure. But to say the limit itself--by forcing hunters not to kill too many bucks--caused the older buck age structure we now have would not be accurate. The 3 buck limit limits very few hunters from killing what they want to kill. Again, VERY few hunters kill 3 bucks per year, and the majority kill zero bucks per year.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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