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#3163756 - 02/14/13 10:46 AM Re: Xtended range or Hevi-shot mag blend? [Re: Wes Parrish]
booth
4 Point


Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 105
Loc: TN

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You could do that if the hevi shot was uniform.
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#3163760 - 02/14/13 10:49 AM Re: Xtended range or Hevi-shot mag blend? [Re: Wes Parrish]
Andy S.
TnDeer Old Timer
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Registered: 07/26/99
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Loc: Atoka, TN

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Hal's response to me verbatim. I will take his word as the gospel because he is well respected as is Clarke who he mentions in his reply. I've got some great pointers from Clarke over the years as far as chokes and other shooting stuff goes, and now I have found the truth to this matter due to his efforts.

Andy,

Hevi-13 started out being 13g/cc, but a couple years ago, they went to 12g/cc. That has been verified by many folks through pellet counts, density tests, and by a statement from EM's CEO to Clark Bush which was posted online.

EM is intentionally deceptive about the density of their shot in its various forms, and have made a lot of waterfowlers mad at them, among others. It's puzzling, but that's the way they market for some reason.


I stand corrected. \:\)
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Andy S.

If I had saved all the money I spent on hunting, I'd spend it on hunting.

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#3163793 - 02/14/13 11:07 AM Re: Xtended range or Hevi-shot mag blend? [Re: Rockhound]
Wes Parrish
16 Point


Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 18959
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Rockhound
 Originally Posted By: Wes Parrish
Don't think I can do an "apples-to-apples" weight test on the Mag Blends, but anyone see any reason why simply weighing 100 pellets of #6's from each brand wouldn't be conclusive as whether Hevi-13 is the same or heavier than Win. Xtendeds?


If you cut one open you will see a reason, your hevi load of straight "6's" will contain shot sizes ranging from 2 to 8 most likely

Point well taken, but believe if use 100 average pellets from each shell, still should have a somewhat valid comparison.

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#3163794 - 02/14/13 11:09 AM Re: Xtended range or Hevi-shot mag blend? [Re: Andy S.]
Wes Parrish
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Registered: 06/12/02
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Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Andy S.
Hevi-13 started out being 13g/cc, but a couple years ago, they went to 12g/cc. That has been verified by many folks through pellet counts, density tests, and by a statement from EM's CEO to Clark Bush which was posted online.

EM is intentionally deceptive about the density of their shot . . . . . It's puzzling, but that's the way they market for some reason.[/i]

WOWZER!
If this is true, Hevi-13 is being very deceptive. Outright fraud.

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#3163808 - 02/14/13 11:17 AM Re: Xtended range or Hevi-shot mag blend? [Re: Wes Parrish]
Wes Parrish
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Registered: 06/12/02
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Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN

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I just went online to see how the Hevi-13's are "described" and found this, "HEVI-13 pellets are about 20% denser than lead."
Note, they do not list the actually density.

So, if lead has a density of 11.35 g/cc, then to be 20% denser than lead, the density should be 13.62 g/cc?
(11.35 x 1.20 = 13.62)

From the same website advertising the Hevi-13's (Cabela's), we find the ad for the Federal Heavyweights stating, "Federal's Heavyweight shot has a density of 15 grams per cubic centimeter; that's 1/3 denser than lead."

OK, 11.35 x 1.3333 = 15.13 = pretty close to 1/3 denser than lead if the Federals weigh 15 g/cc as stated.

Finally, we look at the ad for the Winchester® Supreme Elite Xtended Range Hi-Density Turkey Loads which state, "Specially formulated shot is 10% denser than lead."
If the 10% part is true, then the Winchester Xtendeds would have a density of (11.35 x 1.10) ==== 12.49 g/cc.
Based on all appearances, both Federal and Winchester appear to be truthful in their advertising here.

By contrast, if the Hevi-13's were "as advertised" in being 20% heavier than lead, they would need to weigh closer to 14 g/cc (13.62 to be exact). If they weight any less than 13 g/cc, this is truly deceptive advertising by the "Hevi" people.

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#3163847 - 02/14/13 11:50 AM Re: Xtended range or Hevi-shot mag blend? [Re: Wes Parrish]
Rockhound
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http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Hevi-Shot-6-7-lbs_bag/productinfo/0557006/

And yet more evidence that hevi is not 13g/cc

Check out product details at the bottom

Product Type: Non-toxic shot; USFWS approved Load Data:Hevi-Shot Manual Specs:Available sizes are B, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7-1/2, and 9 Density: Averages approximately 11.6 grams/cubic cm
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#3163850 - 02/14/13 11:54 AM Re: Xtended range or Hevi-shot mag blend? [Re: Rockhound]
Wes Parrish
16 Point


Registered: 06/12/02
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Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN

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As an aside, the common "understanding" of many, including myself, HAD been that "Hevi" shot was about 12 g/cc, while "Hevi-13" shot was about 13 g/cc.

After all, for years now, "Hevi-13" has been, AND STILL IS AS OF TODAY, advertised as being 20% heavier than lead.

And during these same years, Winchester has consistently stated their "Xtendeds" were 10% heavier than lead, while Federals said their "Heavyweights" were 1/3 heavier than lead.

If it's true that Hevi-13 weighs any less than 12.50 g/cc, I don't see any defense they could have against being purposefully fraudulent in their advertising.

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#3163864 - 02/14/13 12:05 PM Re: Xtended range or Hevi-shot mag blend? [Re: Wes Parrish]
Andy S.
TnDeer Old Timer
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Registered: 07/26/99
Posts: 7836
Loc: Atoka, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Wes Parrish
If this is true, Hevi-13 is being very deceptive. Outright fraud.
My thoughts exactly! With that said, I cannot complain one bit about the performance of the Mag Blends in the field based on my personal experiences with it.
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Andy S.

If I had saved all the money I spent on hunting, I'd spend it on hunting.

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#3163866 - 02/14/13 12:11 PM Re: Xtended range or Hevi-shot mag blend? [Re: Rockhound]
Andy S.
TnDeer Old Timer
14 Point


Registered: 07/26/99
Posts: 7836
Loc: Atoka, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Rockhound
And yet more evidence that hevi is not 13g/cc
That is Hevi-Shot, not Hevi-13. I have never thought or believed Hevi-Shot was 13g/cc, but the Hevi-13 name implies 13g/cc. The fact EM markets it 20% denser than lead (11.3g/cc) as well as tell the consumer that it is when one makes an inquiry, is very deceptive. If EM would not market it 20% denser and remove the 13 from the name, it would not be so alarming to the consumer when the truth is known.
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Andy S.

If I had saved all the money I spent on hunting, I'd spend it on hunting.

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#3163868 - 02/14/13 12:12 PM Re: Xtended range or Hevi-shot mag blend? [Re: Wes Parrish]
Andy S.
TnDeer Old Timer
14 Point


Registered: 07/26/99
Posts: 7836
Loc: Atoka, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Wes Parrish
As an aside, the common "understanding" of many, including myself, HAD been that "Hevi" shot was about 12 g/cc, while "Hevi-13" shot was about 13 g/cc.

After all, for years now, "Hevi-13" has been, AND STILL IS AS OF TODAY, advertised as being 20% heavier than lead.

And during these same years, Winchester has consistently stated their "Xtendeds" were 10% heavier than lead, while Federals said their "Heavyweights" were 1/3 heavier than lead.

If it's true that Hevi-13 weighs any less than 12.50 g/cc, I don't see any defense they could have against being purposefully fraudulent in their advertising.
My thoughts exactly Wes.
_________________________
Andy S.

If I had saved all the money I spent on hunting, I'd spend it on hunting.

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