#3156216 - 02/08/13 12:37 PM
Unmanned helos resupplying Marines
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BamaProud
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Unmanned helicopters have been resupplying Marines in Afghanistan for over a year. Cool Stuff.
http://www.myfoxdc.com/story/21083919/robot-helicopters-help-out-in-war-zones#axzz2KJXn1XRL
I wonder how long it will be before the freight/shipping airlines(UPS/Fed Ex) begin using unmanned aircraft. After all, the vast majority of accidents are caused by the pilot. ...and they could save a lot of money in salaries.
I don't think unmanned planes would sit right with most people on passenger planes, but I bet we begin to see some experimentation with unmanned cargo flights within the next few years.
Edited by BamaProud (02/08/13 12:38 PM)
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#3156229 - 02/08/13 12:48 PM
Re: Unmanned helos resupplying Marines
[Re: BamaProud]
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PalsPal
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I don't think it would ever "fly" in the US.
Too much liability.
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#3156246 - 02/08/13 01:04 PM
Re: Unmanned helos resupplying Marines
[Re: PalsPal]
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BamaProud
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I don't see how (for example)Fed Ex crashing a plane into a schoolhouse would make them less liable manned or unmanned.
...unmanned drones began in the battlefield and have been adapted for use in the US.
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#3156248 - 02/08/13 01:07 PM
Re: Unmanned helos resupplying Marines
[Re: BamaProud]
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Wildcat
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It would make them MORE liable.
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#3156249 - 02/08/13 01:09 PM
Re: Unmanned helos resupplying Marines
[Re: Wildcat]
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DBLAARCHERY
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It would make them MORE liable.
It stops me from doing a lot of things I would normally do...
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#3156252 - 02/08/13 01:11 PM
Re: Unmanned helos resupplying Marines
[Re: DBLAARCHERY]
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ferg
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Sure was a 'stink' when drone 'pilots' got to wear the same 'wings' as real pilots on their uniforms - all kinds of heck being raised about that -
ferg....
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#3156262 - 02/08/13 01:17 PM
Re: Unmanned helos resupplying Marines
[Re: DBLAARCHERY]
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BamaProud
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It would make them MORE liable.
...I don't see how it would make them any MORE or LESS liable.
they would be 100% liable for any crashes period.
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#3156267 - 02/08/13 01:19 PM
Re: Unmanned helos resupplying Marines
[Re: BamaProud]
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Dodge Man
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I wonder how long it will be before the freight/shipping airlines(UPS/Fed Ex) begin using unmanned aircraft. After all, the vast majority of accidents are caused by the pilot. ...and they could save a lot of money in salaries.
Technically the plane is unmanned but is still being flown by a pilot back at the base correct? There not flying there self.
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#3156268 - 02/08/13 01:21 PM
Re: Unmanned helos resupplying Marines
[Re: DBLAARCHERY]
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BamaProud
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I had a similar discussion about driver less cars about 6 or so years ago. They are now legal(with proper permits) in the US. (I think Arizona Nevada and California)
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#3156273 - 02/08/13 01:23 PM
Re: Unmanned helos resupplying Marines
[Re: BamaProud]
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Grizzly Johnson
Good ol' Boys "Team Grizzly"
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I guess those "unmanned" aircraft will be how Obama fires on American citizens when the time comes..... Someone sitting in a control room under the "kings" watchful eye, taking out citizens left and right.... no pun intended.
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#3156274 - 02/08/13 01:23 PM
Re: Unmanned helos resupplying Marines
[Re: Dodge Man]
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BamaProud
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I wonder how long it will be before the freight/shipping airlines(UPS/Fed Ex) begin using unmanned aircraft. After all, the vast majority of accidents are caused by the pilot. ...and they could save a lot of money in salaries.
Technically the plane is unmanned but is still being flown by a pilot back at the base correct? There not flying there self.
I am not 100% sure but it doesn't sound like it in the article:
While it supports a pilot, K-MAX can fly by itself day or night and at higher altitudes with a larger payload than any other rotary wing unmanned craft, according to Lockheed Martin.
Cool technology nevertheless.
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#3156281 - 02/08/13 01:27 PM
Re: Unmanned helos resupplying Marines
[Re: BamaProud]
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Dodge Man
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I wonder how long it will be before the freight/shipping airlines(UPS/Fed Ex) begin using unmanned aircraft. After all, the vast majority of accidents are caused by the pilot. ...and they could save a lot of money in salaries.
Technically the plane is unmanned but is still being flown by a pilot back at the base correct? There not flying there self. I am not 100% sure but it doesn't sound like it in the article:
While it supports a pilot, K-MAX can fly by itself day or night and at higher altitudes with a larger payload than any other rotary wing unmanned craft, according to Lockheed Martin.
Cool technology nevertheless.
http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/products/kmax.html
I tried looking it up, I really can't tell for sure. It says they can be flow remotely but it dose sound like they can fly them self if the need be. Im not sure how that works and I guess its so new that they really want explain how it works to us.
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#3156285 - 02/08/13 01:30 PM
Re: Unmanned helos resupplying Marines
[Re: Dodge Man]
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BamaProud
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Thanks for the link. Very cool.
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#3156298 - 02/08/13 01:44 PM
Re: Unmanned helos resupplying Marines
[Re: BamaProud]
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Wildcat
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It would make them MORE liable. ...I don't see how it would make them any MORE or LESS liable. they would be 100% liable for any crashes period.
Uh no. In any airplane crash they look at every single part of it to find out what caused that crash. Was it the plane, pilot error, software, hardware, bomb, highjack, act of God etc??
So who's responsible and how much are they liable for?? Was it the airline, plane manufacture, software manufacture, etc?
By taking the human pilot out all the others become much more liable.
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#3156304 - 02/08/13 01:53 PM
Re: Unmanned helos resupplying Marines
[Re: trealtree]
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44fanatic
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Dodgeman beat me to the Lockheed site. Yall need to check the video.
As far as crashing and liability...I would want a manned aircraft flying overhead. There have been several instances where a pilot has been able to choose where they were going crash and was able to reduce the amount of damage or injury.
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#3156305 - 02/08/13 01:54 PM
Re: Unmanned helos resupplying Marines
[Re: Wildcat]
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BamaProud
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As I understand it Commercial Pilots are immune/protected from civil liability unless gross negligence can be proven(drunk or asleep or something) A simple mistake will not put them at risk for criminal or civil prosecution. It falls back on the company they work for.
...and in fact most of the time (well over half of the time) the pilot IS responsible for the accident. I think shipping companies might look at this as a way to cut cost(salaries of pilots) and reduce aircraft accidents.
http://planecrashinfo.com/cause.htm
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#3156309 - 02/08/13 01:55 PM
Re: Unmanned helos resupplying Marines
[Re: 44fanatic]
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BamaProud
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There have been several instances where a pilot has been able to choose where they were going crash and was able to reduce the amount of damage or injury.
That is a good point.
...and those videos are cool as heck!
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#3156317 - 02/08/13 02:08 PM
Re: Unmanned helos resupplying Marines
[Re: ferg]
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TAFKAP
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Sure was a 'stink' when drone 'pilots' got to wear the same 'wings' as real pilots on their uniforms - all kinds of heck being raised about that -
ferg....
Wings are earned after the completion of flight training.....dully earned, regardless of the equipment flown. I bet some ego-driven fighter pilots might object to the whirly-bird drivers wearing "wings" as well. 
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#3156332 - 02/08/13 02:23 PM
Re: Unmanned helos resupplying Marines
[Re: Wildcat]
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Wes Parrish
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By taking the human pilot out all the others become much more liable.
I agree.
Also think there is more potential for something bad to go wrong when there is no human physically on board who could manually prevent a crash and/or direct the crash away from any particular location where people are concentrated (i.e. school, hotel, etc.).
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#3156345 - 02/08/13 02:31 PM
Re: Unmanned helos resupplying Marines
[Re: Wes Parrish]
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BamaProud
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I am sure we could debate the validity of this data, but just out of curiosity I looked it up.
Between 1950 and 2010 there were 1,085 fatal accidents involving commercial aircraft, world-wide. Exactly 50 percent of them were caused by pilots.
http://planecrashinfo.com/cause.htm
FAA Global Collaboration stats look similar but are harder to interpret
http://www.faa.gov/about/plans_reports/Performance/quarter_scorecard/
Pilots may indeed have an opportunity to crash in a safer or less populated area...but half of the time if the pilot wasn't there (impossible today maybe not tomorrow) the accident wouldn't have ever occurred.
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#3156352 - 02/08/13 02:35 PM
Re: Unmanned helos resupplying Marines
[Re: BamaProud]
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Wes Parrish
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Pilots may indeed have an opportunity to crash in a safer or less populated area...but half of the time if the pilot wasn't there (impossible today maybe not tomorrow) the accident wouldn't have ever occurred.
On the other hand, since we have no significant data for UNmanned aircraft, to what do we compare this data stating pilots caused half the crashes?
Is it possible that Unmanned aircraft might result in more crashes and more civilian deaths per crash? How many crashes do pilots prevent?
Kinda like trying to measure how many crimes the mere presence of a gun prevents?
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#3156366 - 02/08/13 02:51 PM
Re: Unmanned helos resupplying Marines
[Re: Wes Parrish]
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BamaProud
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Sure I understand that there may be other obstacles to face if pilots were taken off planes.
But only about 10 years ago (maybe a little longer) unmanned planes of any kind were a thing of science fiction. Drones are common on the battlefield now and being adapted to civilian/domestic purposes every day. I am just saying I won't be surprised if we at least hear talk of it soon. Technology is evolving rapidly.
Now Drones are not totally Autonomous because they do have a pilot on the ground to take over if something goes wrong. Why can't 1 or 100 guys sit on terra firma behind a cornpooter monitoring a fleet of 1,000 or 10,000 planes that are operating primarily by computers and take over only in the event of a problem. Pilots today really aren't flying the planes anyway except for takeoff and landing...and there really isn't a reason (other than FAA regs) that they have to do that. Autopilot can do it just fine.
I am just saying I won't be surprised if we at least hear talk of some sort of UN-piloted Commercial Aviation(specifically cargo) soon. Maybe initially only over the oceans with a on ground "pilot" remotely landing it. Technology is evolving rapidly.
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#3156386 - 02/08/13 03:11 PM
Re: Unmanned helos resupplying Marines
[Re: BamaProud]
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Wildcat
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Exactly 50 percent of them were caused by pilots.
And exactly 50% were caused by the planes themselves. So take that out and you have zero chance of crashing but then we would not have any planes.
But this data doesn't show something. The technology coming out today could have a 90% chance of crashing without any pilot over the next 2-3 years.
We can't look at the crash rates for the unmanned drones but they are piloted because the military will not release the real data.
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#3156433 - 02/08/13 03:40 PM
Re: Unmanned helos resupplying Marines
[Re: Wildcat]
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BamaProud
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Exactly 50 percent of them were caused by pilots.
And exactly 50% were caused by the planes themselves. So take that out and you have zero chance of crashing but then we would not have any planes.
Not really, only 22 percent were attributed to mechanical failure.
But this data doesn't show something. The technology coming out today could have a 90% chance of crashing without any pilot over the next 2-3 years.
sure, or it could have a 1% chance of crashing. Both are pure guesses. I happen to think at the rate unmanned flight technology is advancing it will be closer to 1%.
We can't look at the crash rates for the unmanned drones but they are piloted because the military will not release the real data.
What "real data" are you referring to?
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#3156438 - 02/08/13 03:42 PM
Re: Unmanned helos resupplying Marines
[Re: BamaProud]
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BamaProud
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Anyway this thread veered off course, My intent was to highlight the technology...not start a debate over unmanned commercial flight...that was just an afterthought as I was posting.
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#3156447 - 02/08/13 03:49 PM
Re: Unmanned helos resupplying Marines
[Re: BamaProud]
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PalsPal
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One advantage might be if a problem did arise with a plane, and it was determined that it would crash, if possible the plane might be detonated in air, thus reducing any damage on the ground.
This would be on a freight flight, ala FedEx.
Edited by PalsPal (02/08/13 03:49 PM)
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#3156469 - 02/08/13 04:08 PM
Re: Unmanned helos resupplying Marines
[Re: PalsPal]
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Poser
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One advantage might be if a problem did arise with a plane, and it was determined that it would crash, if possible the plane might be detonated in air, thus reducing any damage on the ground.
This would be on a freight flight, ala FedEx.
But then you have planes flying around with explosive ordinance which might be too much liability. Anyway, I'd say its only a matter of time before we see such technology used in transportation.
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#3156484 - 02/08/13 04:23 PM
Re: Unmanned helos resupplying Marines
[Re: Poser]
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Wildcat
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Yep, we will NEED them since less and less people will be working while the govt takes care of them.
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#3156488 - 02/08/13 04:26 PM
Re: Unmanned helos resupplying Marines
[Re: BamaProud]
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Wildcat
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Exactly 50 percent of them were caused by pilots.
And exactly 50% were caused by the planes themselves. So take that out and you have zero chance of crashing but then we would not have any planes. Not really, only 22 percent were attributed to mechanical failure.
But this data doesn't show something. The technology coming out today could have a 90% chance of crashing without any pilot over the next 2-3 years.
sure, or it could have a 1% chance of crashing. Both are pure guesses. I happen to think at the rate unmanned flight technology is advancing it will be closer to 1%.
We can't look at the crash rates for the unmanned drones but they are piloted because the military will not release the real data.
What "real data" are you referring to?
And just what caused the other??
The "real data" I'm talking about is the military data, Do you really think the military is going to tell us all the times they crashed the drones??
One day it could happen, they ARE working on it but they will never give us the real data and hard numbers for a few years yet.
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#3156508 - 02/08/13 04:50 PM
Re: Unmanned helos resupplying Marines
[Re: Wildcat]
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Mudbone
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If I'm on a plane, I want a human pilot physically flying it. I wouldn't want to fly across an ocean in a plane flown by a computer. How many would do it if the government told u it was safe, who knows. Probably about 51%.
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#3157228 - 02/09/13 10:14 AM
Re: Unmanned helos resupplying Marines
[Re: Wildcat]
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BamaProud
10 Point
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Exactly 50 percent of them were caused by pilots.
And exactly 50% were caused by the planes themselves. So take that out and you have zero chance of crashing but then we would not have any planes. Not really, only 22 percent were attributed to mechanical failure.
But this data doesn't show something. The technology coming out today could have a 90% chance of crashing without any pilot over the next 2-3 years.
sure, or it could have a 1% chance of crashing. Both are pure guesses. I happen to think at the rate unmanned flight technology is advancing it will be closer to 1%.
We can't look at the crash rates for the unmanned drones but they are piloted because the military will not release the real data.
What "real data" are you referring to? And just what caused the other?? The "real data" I'm talking about is the military data, Do you really think the military is going to tell us all the times they crashed the drones?? One day it could happen, they ARE working on it but they will never give us the real data and hard numbers for a few years yet.
The statistic totaling 100% are in the links I posted. Other factors are(from memory)are weather sabotage and a few other things.
Sure in the developmental stages I am sure a lot of drones crashed...but I don't think anyone is suggesting we pack planes full of people during testing/development phases.
Regarding your last statement "One day it could happen, they ARE working on it" That is exactly what I have been saying throughout this thread. ...I'd be willing to bet there will be some kind of unmanned commercial Aviation(probably cargo) within 10 years.
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