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#3152379 - 02/05/13 06:15 AM Re: WAl mart guns [Re: ratsnakeboogy]
BlountArrow
8 Point


Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 2493
Loc: SouthEast Tenn

Offline
 Originally Posted By: ratsnakeboogy
Nope, same guns as any other shops carry....


Absolutely not true.

However, second hand is not the right term either. I probably can't convince you, and many will want to argue with me, but I was in the gun business from 1999 - 2005, and I can tell you with absolute certainty and confidence that the gun you buy in Wal-Mart is not the same gun you would buy at your local sporting goods store or other retailer. Now, if you're only talking about little Cricket 22s, Little Marlins or Savage 22s that are already inexpensive guns then that's a different story and those guns are most likely the same.

So let me qualify this statement, again I have been out of the gun world since 2005, so maybe things have changed since then (I HIGHLY HIGHLY DOUBT IT). I can tell you with absolute certainty that when you compare firearms like your Remington 700s, other Remington bolt models, Ruger M77s, etc, Various shotguns above the $200 price point the gun you buy at Wal-Mart IS NOT THE SAME as the gun you would pick up at an independednt shop or other retailer. How do they do it? There are various ways and you will most likely not get anyone at Wal-Mart to talk about it nor will you get a gun mfg to admit to it. One of the ways is parts substitutions...maybe a part that performs no integral function or no safety function is plastic instead of steel or pot metal instead of steel. In some cases, Wal-Mart agrees to take lower quality wood. The finishing on certain parts is skimped on, etc. If you don't want to believe it that is fine. It doesn't mean the gun is a piece of crap, doesn't mean anything like that, but just don't let yourself think they are the same.

The gun margins and mark-ups are ridiculously low. Don't think that Wal-Mart, just because of sheer buying power - which there's is HUGE no doubt, that they can buy in bulk to the point that price point gets to where it is without sacrificing certain modifications to the gun. It's not an old wives tale. It was fact from 1999 - 2005 and while I can't speak for today's practices by Wal-Mart I would bet it is still fact because I still see a lot of their prices on firearms trumping other big name, big box retailers. Wal-Mart is a giant, and they have a lot of buying power, and they have a lot of GENERATIONAL contracts that are still enforced today that Sam Walton himself authored.



Edited by BlountArrow (02/05/13 07:28 AM)
Edit Reason: spelling...
_________________________
"The world is so dreadfully managed, one hardly knows to whom to complain."
-Ronald Firbank

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#3152425 - 02/05/13 07:16 AM Re: WAl mart guns [Re: BlountArrow]
-DRM-
6 Point


Registered: 08/21/12
Posts: 768
Loc: Spring Hill, TN

Offline
BlountArrow nailed it. Wal*Mart has enough buying power that they can order things they way they want them, to get the price point where they want it.

For example, this tire is produced by Goodyear FOR Wal*Mart, and ONLY for Wal*Mart:



To think Wal*Mart can't call up a supplier and tell them what they want it a little naive.
_________________________
~DRM~

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#3152592 - 02/05/13 09:38 AM Re: WAl mart guns [Re: -DRM-]
ratsnakeboogy
10 Point


Registered: 08/28/08
Posts: 3457
Loc: Andersonville, TN

Offline
Well think what you want, and in some cases you might be somewhat correct.

I can tell you I have 2 1187 premiers, one bought from walmart 10 years ago and one from a well known gun shop in Middle Tennessee and I break them down COMPLETELY every year to clean. The only difference between the two is about 94 dollars.

It may be so on some guns, as I don't have everything they sell. I can say that if there was a malfunction that caused a safety issue and someone got hurt or killed it would be a huge liability for Wal-Mart. So if they are doing what you say they are, somebody in Wal-Mart ordering is a complete moron.

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#3152611 - 02/05/13 09:53 AM Re: WAl mart guns [Re: ratsnakeboogy]
BlountArrow
8 Point


Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 2493
Loc: SouthEast Tenn

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 Originally Posted By: ratsnakeboogy
Well think what you want, and in some cases you might be somewhat correct.


I don't think I know...again up until 2005.

 Originally Posted By: ratsnakeboogy
...I break them down COMPLETELY every year to clean. The only difference between the two is about 94 dollars.


In many cases the differences may not be something you can notice or would notice. Are you a metallurgist by the way? I'm not going to argue about it. I'm not even sure why I'm replying because I know the facts and I know that a large population will refuse to believe it because they think their gun is somehow less of a gun because they got it at Wal-Mart and that's not what I said at all.

 Originally Posted By: ratsnakeboogy
...I can say that if there was a malfunction that caused a safety issue and someone got hurt or killed it would be a huge liability for Wal-Mart. So if they are doing what you say they are, somebody in Wal-Mart ordering is a complete moron.


Did I say they were altering integral parts or parts that performed a safety function? No, I did not. In fact, I said the exact opposite; parts of integral function or a safety function were NOT compromised. Again, this is my knowledge of the industry up until 2005.

You can think what you want but my knowledge on this subject, unlike others, is not an opinion.
_________________________
"The world is so dreadfully managed, one hardly knows to whom to complain."
-Ronald Firbank

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#3152637 - 02/05/13 10:11 AM Re: WAl mart guns [Re: BlountArrow]
ratsnakeboogy
10 Point


Registered: 08/28/08
Posts: 3457
Loc: Andersonville, TN

Offline
Like I said, and no offense intended.

Not trying to get your underwear wadded up, but mine Premiers are the same down to every last spring, disconector, etc.

Does what you are saying happen? Maybe, probably, not sure.

I find it a bit hard to believe Remington would go to EXPENSE of outsourcing, retooling, etc to make a few springs, latches, disconectors, that already cost them very little to save a few pennies, but that's just me. We can agree to disagree, no biggie.

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#3152658 - 02/05/13 10:38 AM Re: WAl mart guns [Re: ratsnakeboogy]
-DRM-
6 Point


Registered: 08/21/12
Posts: 768
Loc: Spring Hill, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: ratsnakeboogy
I find it a bit hard to believe Remington would go to EXPENSE of outsourcing, retooling, etc to make a few springs, latches, disconectors, that already cost them very little to save a few pennies, but that's just me. We can agree to disagree, no biggie.


Goodyear will make Wal*Mart an entirely custom TIRE with a tread pattern than is 100% unique to Wal*Mart (as I pointed out), why do you have a hard time believing a gun manufacturer won't alter their manufacturing process or vary parts?

There is no disagree here - it HAPPENS. Some of you just can't bring yourselves to accept it, lol.
_________________________
~DRM~

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#3152660 - 02/05/13 10:40 AM Re: WAl mart guns [Re: ratsnakeboogy]
BlountArrow
8 Point


Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 2493
Loc: SouthEast Tenn

Offline
 Originally Posted By: ratsnakeboogy
...no offense intended...Not trying to get your underwear wadded up...We can agree to disagree, no biggie.


First, no offense taken; I've yet to be offended by anyone's opinion on TNDeer. Second, I'm not wearing any so not possible. Third, indeed - agree to disagree. Lastly, your logic concerning the manufacturing process sounds intelligent when written but those are not accurate statements because it is not a true representation of this sort of manufacturing process.

In the words of Forest Gump, "That's all I have to say about that."
_________________________
"The world is so dreadfully managed, one hardly knows to whom to complain."
-Ronald Firbank

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#3152700 - 02/05/13 11:16 AM Re: WAl mart guns [Re: BlountArrow]
infoman jr.
10 Point


Registered: 10/05/03
Posts: 3659
Loc: Elizabethtown, KY

content Online
 Originally Posted By: BlountArrow
 Originally Posted By: ratsnakeboogy
Nope, same guns as any other shops carry....


Absolutely not true.

However, second hand is not the right term either. I probably can't convince you, and many will want to argue with me, but I was in the gun business from 1999 - 2005, and I can tell you with absolute certainty and confidence that the gun you buy in Wal-Mart is not the same gun you would buy at your local sporting goods store or other retailer. Now, if you're only talking about little Cricket 22s, Little Marlins or Savage 22s that are already inexpensive guns then that's a different story and those guns are most likely the same.

So let me qualify this statement, again I have been out of the gun world since 2005, so maybe things have changed since then (I HIGHLY HIGHLY DOUBT IT). I can tell you with absolute certainty that when you compare firearms like your Remington 700s, other Remington bolt models, Ruger M77s, etc, Various shotguns above the $200 price point the gun you buy at Wal-Mart IS NOT THE SAME as the gun you would pick up at an independednt shop or other retailer. How do they do it? There are various ways and you will most likely not get anyone at Wal-Mart to talk about it nor will you get a gun mfg to admit to it. One of the ways is parts substitutions...maybe a part that performs no integral function or no safety function is plastic instead of steel or pot metal instead of steel. In some cases, Wal-Mart agrees to take lower quality wood. The finishing on certain parts is skimped on, etc. If you don't want to believe it that is fine. It doesn't mean the gun is a piece of crap, doesn't mean anything like that, but just don't let yourself think they are the same.

The gun margins and mark-ups are ridiculously low. Don't think that Wal-Mart, just because of sheer buying power - which there's is HUGE no doubt, that they can buy in bulk to the point that price point gets to where it is without sacrificing certain modifications to the gun. It's not an old wives tale. It was fact from 1999 - 2005 and while I can't speak for today's practices by Wal-Mart I would bet it is still fact because I still see a lot of their prices on firearms trumping other big name, big box retailers. Wal-Mart is a giant, and they have a lot of buying power, and they have a lot of GENERATIONAL contracts that are still enforced today that Sam Walton himself authored.


What exactly was your role in the gun industry? See my earlier post.
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#3152734 - 02/05/13 11:35 AM Re: WAl mart guns [Re: -DRM-]
ratsnakeboogy
10 Point


Registered: 08/28/08
Posts: 3457
Loc: Andersonville, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: -DRM-
 Originally Posted By: ratsnakeboogy
I find it a bit hard to believe Remington would go to EXPENSE of outsourcing, retooling, etc to make a few springs, latches, disconectors, that already cost them very little to save a few pennies, but that's just me. We can agree to disagree, no biggie.


Goodyear will make Wal*Mart an entirely custom TIRE with a tread pattern than is 100% unique to Wal*Mart (as I pointed out), why do you have a hard time believing a gun manufacturer won't alter their manufacturing process or vary parts?

There is no disagree here - it HAPPENS. Some of you just can't bring yourselves to accept it, lol.


I can entirely see the tire thing, retooling or outsourcing to save $3.39 on a $700 shotgun not so much.

But hey, we could probably be better served using this energy to "stick it to the man"!

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#3152803 - 02/05/13 12:45 PM Re: WAl mart guns [Re: ratsnakeboogy]
RUGER Administrator
Mouse Killa
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Registered: 11/19/99
Posts: 4104921
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\:D
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