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#3151388 - 02/04/13 01:19 PM Re: # of Sightings During A Season [Re: Football Hunter]
Winchester
Non-Typical


Registered: 12/05/03
Posts: 27878
Loc: TN

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Overlooked and out of mind, equals a great place most every time!!! This holds true a scary amount of toime when dealing with public land
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#3151462 - 02/04/13 02:30 PM Re: # of Sightings During A Season [Re: Football Hunter]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65979
Loc: Nashville, TN

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Football Hunter,

Here's another example that may not be helpful for everybody (because it is more specific to the way we hunt on my property), but is an interesting example of using observation data to find useful patterns.

In the past, I had analyzed older buck sighting rates for each stand location and found that older buck sightings rapidly declined as hunting hours increased at that stand. In essence, the more hours you spend in that particular stand location, the lower your chances of seeing older bucks. However, in these calculations, I made no attempt to account for the duration of time these hunting hours were accumulated over. The same number of total hunting hours concentrated into one season or spread over multiple seasons was treated the same way. Now obviously, that must matter, so I looked at the data a little differently after this season had ended.

But to understand how I analyzed the data, a little background on how we hunt. Due to the majority of the hunters advancing age (and the fact we are lazy), we prefer to hunt exclusively from pre-positioned ladder stands. In an attempt to spread our hunting out a bit more, we've simply accumulated a lot of ladder stands! We normally have up 40 different ladders for a given deer season. Between seasons, we usually move around 15 of them (some of which will be moved in de facto sanctuaries). To keep track of all these ladders, we produce a map of the property each year, showing the location of each stand and using a color-coded system for identifying how long a stand has been in its current location. We have one color for ""first year" stands (stands that are new to their location this year), a second color for "second year" stands, and a third color for stands that have been in position three or more years.

By using this color-code for how many years a stand had been in place, as well as the number of times each stand was hunted in a given year, I could account for differences in hunting time spread over many years versus a lot of hours accumulated in a single year. Using 10 years of accumulated data, most of what I found was pretty predictable. "Second year" stands produced almost three times higher older buck sightings than "three or more year" stands, and for both stand categories older buck sightings peak the first time that stand is hunted in a given year, then declined VERY dramatically as the stands were hunted multiple times per year, to the point older buck sightings for both categories of stands drop to virtually zero by the 3rd or 4th time each of those stands was hunted. However, what I found with "first year" stands was a bit of a shock, and will have me looking at our stand map a bit differently in future years. "First year" stands had a virtual "flat-line" older buck sighting rate no matter how many times they were hunted (at least out to the 5th or 6th time they are hunted). Older buck sightings declined a little with subsequent hunts, but not much. Older buck sightings for "first year" stands were still at over 80% of their maximum value all the way out to the 5th time they were hunted. It appears that it is does take some time for older bucks to learn to avoid these new stand locations, perhaps almost an entire season (for our level of hunting pressure, which rarely exceeds hunting a particular stand more than 6 times in a full deer season).

Again, this system may not be useful for hunters that hunt differently from the way we do. But it is a cool example of what can be learned from analyzing detailed observation data. Next year, I can promise you I'll be looking at our stand map differently. For hunting older bucks, I'll be ignoring the "three or more years" stands. I will be focusing on being the first person to hunt one of the "first year" or "second year" stands. And once each of those stands has been hunted once or twice, I will focus all my hunting on just the "first year" stands, as they are the only stands that remain productive for older buck sightings well into the 3rd, 4th, 5th or even 6th time they are hunted in a single season.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3151465 - 02/04/13 02:33 PM Re: # of Sightings During A Season [Re: Winchester]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65979
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Winchester
Overlooked and out of mind, equals a great place most every time!!! This holds true a scary amount of toime when dealing with public land


Thankfully, I don't hunt public land. But I bet finding de facto sanctuaries in high-pressure public land is absolutely key to killing older bucks.

For the benefit of those that do hunt public land Winchester (and 102, as I know you hunt a lot of public land as well), would you mind listing some of the things you look for in finding these de facto sanctuaries on heavily hunted public land?
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3151488 - 02/04/13 02:50 PM Re: # of Sightings During A Season [Re: BSK]
Winchester
Non-Typical


Registered: 12/05/03
Posts: 27878
Loc: TN

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BSK, one of my biggest tactics in being succesful has been learning how the deer will use the terrain, or atleast want to use the terrain when pressure allows it. Once I feel Ive figured this out in a certain area, I link it with what I know about how other hunters use the area. I call it hunting the hunters, which is most times way different than simply trying to walk further than they do. The deer, especially older ones are masters at learning where they can go unnoticed, even when hunters are often close by, but very rarely in these lil areas or strips where they have learned they can go undetected! You wouldnt believe what has been killed in lil 1/2 acre and smaller islands of woods where a constant stream of hunters walk by daily during season! Same goes for hunting close to roads, some GREAT hunting I have had watching cars and even hunters, walk by within 100 yards of me and deer either bedded or watching intently to make sure they dont stop! De facto santuaries on some public land wont be nearly as big or as thick as you would think, its the lack of disturbance that forces the older deer to use what is given to them in a given area, especially that has the food they want to stay so close to! I could go on but enough time and space isnt available. I will say however that while some public areas have the deep and thick typical sanctuaries that most invision in their perfect hunting dreams, many MANY are way simpler and closer than most could be made believe!
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#3152275 - 02/04/13 11:09 PM Re: # of Sightings During A Season [Re: BSK]
ncboyhuntintn
Spike


Registered: 10/24/10
Posts: 99
Loc: houston co.

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Great information as always
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#3153091 - 02/05/13 05:37 PM Re: # of Sightings During A Season [Re: ncboyhuntintn]
r'ville a-bolt
4 Point


Registered: 01/28/13
Posts: 221
Loc: nc graham

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good point Winchester my hottest stand this year was next to a county rd that border our lease.I found this stand by accident while looking for another stand.I was disappointed when I saw a truck from 20 feet up in my climber bow hunting the day before muzzleloader opener.I started to move my stand but there where several fresh scrapes there so I decided to stay.The next two days I killed my two best bucks.Sometimes I think we outsmart ourselves,I learned a good lesson there
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#3153093 - 02/05/13 05:40 PM Re: # of Sightings During A Season [Re: BSK]
catman529
spiderboy
16 Point


Registered: 11/10/10
Posts: 17592
Loc: Franklin TN

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: Winchester
Overlooked and out of mind, equals a great place most every time!!! This holds true a scary amount of toime when dealing with public land


Thankfully, I don't hunt public land. But I bet finding de facto sanctuaries in high-pressure public land is absolutely key to killing older bucks.

For the benefit of those that do hunt public land Winchester (and 102, as I know you hunt a lot of public land as well), would you mind listing some of the things you look for in finding these de facto sanctuaries on heavily hunted public land?
just curious BSK, why are you glad you don't hunt public land?
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#3153119 - 02/05/13 06:01 PM Re: # of Sightings During A Season [Re: catman529]
deerhunter10
10 Point


Registered: 08/21/12
Posts: 3542
Loc: maury county tn

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I cant speak for bsk...but i am glad i don't hunt it either. You don't got to worry about people getting in your spot or walking on you when your hunting. And you can manage the herd a lot easier. But i have a lot of respect for those that do tough hunting!
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#3153125 - 02/05/13 06:06 PM Re: # of Sightings During A Season [Re: deerhunter10]
catman529
spiderboy
16 Point


Registered: 11/10/10
Posts: 17592
Loc: Franklin TN

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 Originally Posted By: deerhunter10
I cant speak for bsk...but i am glad i don't hunt it either. You don't got to worry about people getting in your spot or walking on you when your hunting. And you can manage the herd a lot easier. But i have a lot of respect for those that do tough hunting!
you can't manage the herd and people can walk in on you, but I enjoy hunting public land and it's rewarding killing a pressured deer. This upcoming season my goal is a 3.5 year or older deer on public land, if I put in my scouting and hunting work and have a good dose of luck it might be possible.


Edited by catman529 (02/05/13 06:08 PM)
Edit Reason: Dang phone
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#3153410 - 02/05/13 10:44 PM Re: # of Sightings During A Season [Re: Diehard Hunter]
ZachMarkus
6 Point


Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 708
Loc: Lawrence county, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Diehard Hunter
I don't count any more. It would be too depressing!



Amen on that!

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