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#3147863 - 02/01/13 07:45 AM Will training standards stay the same?
MUP
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Will training standards stay the same?

Chad Groening (OneNewsNow.com)
Thursday, January 31, 2013


A conservative military watchdog says the newly announced plan to allow women in front-line combat units will degrade tough training standards.

Donnelly

Feminists have been applauding the announcement from outgoing Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta that women can serve in battalion-sized infantry and armor units, which engage in direct, offensive combat against the enemy (see earlier story).

Elaine Donnelly, president of the Center for Military Readiness (CMR), recently released an analysis outlining seven reasons why this decision will degrade training standards. Joint Chiefs chairman General Martin Dempsey has already given a clue.

"When he was questioned, 'Are standards going to stay the same?' his answer was very telling. He said the burden of proof will be to show why the standards have to stay so high," Donnelly reports. "Does it have to stay that high? Well, with the kinds of pressures that we see in the Pentagon right now, the answer will be no."

And if the problem is that no woman can become chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the CMR president reasons that there is a simple solution.

"For General Dempsey to go the president and say, 'Mr. President, here is a very fine female officer. I think she should have the chair that I have' -- That way, we would see diversity at the top. I don't think it would hurt the military nearly as much as turning everything upside down in pursuit of women within the infantry," Donnelly suggests. "And that will have to be done on an involuntary basis. General Dempsey is not the most impressive general I've seen in that chair. He's carrying out the president's orders."

The military watchdog concludes that all of this illustrates the fact that elections have consequences.


http://onenewsnow.com//national-security/2013/01/31/will-training-standards-stay-the-same
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#3147924 - 02/01/13 08:33 AM Re: Will training standards stay the same? [Re: MUP]
Unicam Administrator
Grumpaw
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I hope they come off of certain types of training. I have seen more back and neck injuries in the last 5 years than in the previous 25 years combined.
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#3148056 - 02/01/13 09:58 AM Re: Will training standards stay the same? [Re: Unicam]
44fanatic
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Im not exactly sure to to interpret the following information.

DOD News Release (24 Jan): Defense Department Rescinds Direct Combat Exclusion Rule; Services to Expand Integration of Women into Previously Restricted Occupations and Units
http://www.defense.gov/releases/release.aspx?releaseid=15784

Women in the Service Implentation Plan (09 Jan)
http://www.defense.gov/news/WISRImplementationPlanMemo.pdf

FROM THE FIRST DOCUMENT: "Validating occupational performance standards, both physical and mental, for all military occupational specialties (MOS), specifically those that remain closed to women. Eligibility for training and development within designated occupational fields should consist of qualitative and quantifiable standards reflecting the knowledge, skills, and abilities necessary for each occupation. For occupational specialties open to women, the occupational performance standards must be gender-neutral as required by Public Law 103-160, Section 542 (1993)."


SEC. 542. GENDER-NEUTRAL OCCUPATIONAL PERFORMANCE STANDARDS.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c103:6:./temp/~c103p0UBxb:e288405:

(a) GENERAL REQUIREMENT- In the case of any military occupational career field that is open to both male and female members of the Armed Forces, the Secretary of Defense--

(1) shall ensure that qualification of members of the Armed Forces for, and continuance of members of the Armed Forces in, that occupational career field is evaluated on the basis of common, relevant performance standards, without differential standards or evaluation on the basis of gender;

(2) may not use any gender quota, goal, or ceiling except as specifically authorized by law; and

(3) may not change an occupational performance standard for the purpose of increasing or decreasing the number of women in that occupational career field.

(b) REQUIREMENT FOR USE OF SPECIFIC PHYSICAL REQUIREMENTS- For any military occupational field that is open to both male and female members of the Armed Forces for which (as determined by the Secretary of Defense) muscular strength and endurance and cardiovascular capacity are relevant to the performance of duties in that field, the Secretary shall prescribe specific physical requirements for members of the Armed Forces in that field and shall apply those physical requirements on a gender-neutral basis.

(c) NOTICE TO CONGRESS OF CHANGES- At least 60 days before implementing any changes to occupational standards for a military occupational field which are expected to result in an increase, or in a decrease, of at least 10 percent in the number of female members of the Armed Forces who enter, or are assigned to, that occupational field, the Secretary of Defense shall submit to Congress a report providing notice of the change and the justification and rationale for the change.
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#3148151 - 02/01/13 11:19 AM Re: Will training standards stay the same? [Re: 44fanatic]
TOW
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Nope... I was in the employment sector of a large company and saw lots of dumbing down of physical and mental standards to meet gender and race quotas.

There will be a push to have XX % women in combat positions no matter what the qualifications are..
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#3148295 - 02/01/13 01:39 PM Re: Will training standards stay the same? [Re: TOW]
Locksley
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 Originally Posted By: TOW
Nope... I was in the employment sector of a large company and saw lots of dumbing down of physical and mental standards to meet gender and race quotas.

There will be a push to have XX % women in combat positions no matter what the qualifications are..







YEP the newly announced plan to allow women in front-line combat units will degrade tough training standards.
The standards were lowered before when they let women in to start with.


Combat roles are important to military advancement.
There are also significant arguments against putting women in combat as well—arguments that are far weightier than the above ones. However, in our culture the rights of women are increasingly put above the importance of human life (this can be seen most horribly in abortion). Therefore, feminists may shake off these arguments with their illogic and emotional fury by stating that their right to be in combat outweighs the damage they do to military readiness and fighting strength. However, the arguments must still be put forth:

The inevitable result is that training standards are lowered, and then the facts are then ferociously denied. This has already resulted in one pilot death (Navy Lieutenant Kara Hultgreen) [I am sure more have resulted, as this book written in 1995]. Also, David Horowitz offers specifics:
“Gender norming” is now the rule—women are measured against other women, rather than against men who outperform them.
Even though West Point officially says there have been no negative effects from the admission of women, the sworn courtroom testimony of a West Point official says that women cannot perform nearly as well as men and that the men’s training program has, for that reason, been downgraded. For example, men are no longer required to run carrying heavy weapons because women are unable to do that.
Even if a man is willing to lead women in combat, even the thought that it might not be suitable is sufficient to end your career. This happened with Lt. Commander Kenneth Carkhuff who was recommended for early promotion due to his “unlimited potential … destined for command and beyond,” but after a private conversation with his superior officer that his religious views made him doubtful about putting women in combat, though those views also required him to lead women into combat if ordered to by his superiors, he was discharged.

http://www.fireandknowledge.org/archives/2005/03/21/why-women-should-not-be-allowed-in-combat/
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#3148299 - 02/01/13 01:42 PM Re: Will training standards stay the same? [Re: Locksley]
Locksley
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UPDATE 2: There have been several new posts since this went up 15th May, click the Category link to “Rangers and Rangerettes” to see them all. Yes, they will go to Infantry Officer Basic.

UPDATE: the first of several follow-up posts, A Funny Thing Happened this Week, has been up since Thursday and it adds a few more details from teh cascade of information flowing from the unhappy implementers of this latest outburst from the Good Idea Fairy. In the light of the comment interest in this post, we’ll post links to other, forthcoming updates here as well. Now back to the original post:



It was clear that nobody’s opinion was being solicited. The message came from the Chief of Staff of the Army, and the order seems to have come from echelons above him: Ranger School will admit women within a few months. And the women will pass, whatever it takes.

Female officers have complained that the lack of the school credential disadvantages them for promotions and commands, and in an election year their complaints have found champions among the political appointees in the Office of the Secretary of Defense. In a Department whose highest priority is the Secretary’s million-dollar Gulfstream commute, and that has lost interest in two ongoing wars and a dozen other flashpoints where soldiers risk their lives daily, a stroke of a pen can upend a 60-year-old course that embodies a tradition with roots in the 18th Century.
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To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;"The greatest pain a man can suffer is to have knowledge of much, and power over nothing" - Herodotus

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#3148303 - 02/01/13 01:46 PM Re: Will training standards stay the same? [Re: Locksley]
Locksley
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In 1948, Congress made women a permanent part of the military services.
9
The Women’s Armed
Services integration Act of 1948 limited the proportion of women in the military to two percent of
the enlisted force and 10% of officers. This limit was repealed in 1967.
10

In the years that followed the passage of the Women’s Integration Act of 1948, women made up a
relatively small proportion of the armed forces—less than one percent until 1973. By 1997,
women accounted for 13.6% of the active duty endstrength, increasing to 14.5% by September,
2011.
Two major factors led to the expansion of the role of women in the armed forces. First, after the
end of the draft and the beginning of the All-Volunteer Force in December 1973, the military
services had difficulty in recruiting and retaining enough qualified males, thereby turning
attention to recruiting women.
11
Second, the movement for equal rights for women, particularly in
the 1960s and 1970s, led to demands for equal opportunity in all fields, including national
defense, and a gradual removal of the restrictions against them.
In 1974, the age requirement for women enlisting without parental consent was made the same as
for men.
12
In the next year, legislation was enacted that allowed women to be admitted to the
three service academies.
13

In 1977, Congress directed the Secretary of Defense to submit to Congress a definition of the
term “combat” and recommendations for expanding job classifications for female members of the
armed forces.
14
In 1978, women were permitted to be assigned permanent duty on noncombatant Navy ships, and
up to six months of temporary duty on other ships.
15
The Senate Armed Services Committee commented on women in combat in its report concerning
the reinstitution of registration for the Selective Service in 1979. Citing military and other reasons
for differential treatment of men and women by Selective Service, the Committee stated:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/R42075.pdf
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To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;"The greatest pain a man can suffer is to have knowledge of much, and power over nothing" - Herodotus

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#3148307 - 02/01/13 01:50 PM Re: Will training standards stay the same? [Re: Locksley]
BMan
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I have no problem with women filling any military position they are qualified for at the training and readiness levels that were in force before they were allowed to apply for that position.

Unfortunately, every time women have been admitted to positions that had been previously closed, the standards were decreased to ensure that women could meet them.

So, will training standards stay the same? NOT A CHANCE.
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#3148325 - 02/01/13 02:16 PM Re: Will training standards stay the same? [Re: BMan]
Bambi Buster
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 Originally Posted By: BMan
I have no problem with women filling any military position they are qualified for at the training and readiness levels that were in force before they were allowed to apply for that position.

Unfortunately, every time women have been admitted to positions that had been previously closed, the standards were decreased to ensure that women could meet them.

So, will training standards stay the same? NOT A CHANCE.


The law enforcement profession has suffered the same erosion of standards over the years. In many instances, the powers that be simply declare that the standards women could not meet are irrelevant and discard them, then piously claim that no standards have been lowered.
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#3148402 - 02/01/13 03:41 PM Re: Will training standards stay the same? [Re: Bambi Buster]
dr
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They will dumb down the military like they have the schools, and it will give new meaning to NO soldier left behind. So, Will women now have to register for the selective service like men, when they turn 18? Bet that will create a ruckus.
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#3148426 - 02/01/13 04:06 PM Re: Will training standards stay the same? [Re: dr]
44fanatic
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 Originally Posted By: dr
They will dumb down the military like they have the schools, and it will give new meaning to NO soldier left behind. So, Will women now have to register for the selective service like men, when they turn 18? Bet that will create a ruckus.


Nope, to keep things equal, they will eliminate haveing to register for the selective service....and when the SHTF, women will be allowed to enlist instead of being drafted (if/when it gets enacted again).
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#3148496 - 02/01/13 05:57 PM Re: Will training standards stay the same? [Re: 44fanatic]
dr
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My boy has been in the Army about 3 years. He said there were women in boot camp with him, and it was pathetic how easy the Army had made the physical training.
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#3148506 - 02/01/13 06:08 PM Re: Will training standards stay the same? [Re: dr]
Stalkhunter
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military is no longer recommend it to my nephews or nieces or to anyone anymore. I use to but it is being turned into a joke.
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#3148774 - 02/01/13 10:00 PM Re: Will training standards stay the same? [Re: Stalkhunter]
Locksley
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 Originally Posted By: Stalkhunter
military is no longer recommend it to my nephews or nieces or to anyone anymore. I use to but it is being turned into a joke.


The enemy wants our military a joke , that's what these women officers want also if they keep on the road they are on. Flying planes and helicopters is easy compared to what bring in a combat on the ground infantry unit is going to be like.
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To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;"The greatest pain a man can suffer is to have knowledge of much, and power over nothing" - Herodotus

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