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#3144542 - 01/29/13 07:46 PM Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW
Stalkhunter
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http://occupycorporatism.com/military-tr...tm_medium=twitt
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#3144939 - 01/29/13 11:20 PM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: Stalkhunter]
Bambi Buster
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Wow. The lady who authored this article is nuttier than a fruitcake. Sorry, but there's just no nice way to put it.
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#3144956 - 01/29/13 11:35 PM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: Bambi Buster]
in the dog house!
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Nutty..... stating what happened, yup thats nuttie \:\) How dare she talk about military ops in the US. She must be crazy!!!
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#3144970 - 01/29/13 11:50 PM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: in the dog house!]
Bambi Buster
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 Originally Posted By: in the dog house!
Nutty..... stating what happened, yup thats nuttie \:\) How dare she talk about military ops in the US. She must be crazy!!!


So explain to us what is sinister, cause for alarm and predictive of martial law about the statements in her opening paragraph:

"Competitive Outcomes , an organization training young military recruits from the JROTC, ROTC, cadet programs, foreign militaries and police and fire departments are conducting customized drill training exercises, seminars and providing manuals in 2013 in Marietta, Georgia; Los Angeles and San Diego, California. They work with the US Navy, armed and unarmed divisions of ROTC and JROTC; as well as the Air Force."
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#3144977 - 01/29/13 11:58 PM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: Bambi Buster]
in the dog house!
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I pray you are right BB and nothing happens. And we get back to what this Country was intended to be and WAS.
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#3144978 - 01/30/13 12:02 AM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: Bambi Buster]
Bambi Buster
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She also offers this gem of astrophysical wisdom in another article.

"MARCH 22, 2012 EARTH AXIS WILL SHIFT FIVE INCHES WITH a NINE MAGNITUDE QUAKE EXPECTED in a PACIFIC OCEAN EVENT, WHEN EARTH PASSES THROUGH A GRAVITY TROUGH CONNECTING THE SUN AND AND an INBOUND HEAVY-MASS OBJECT"

http://occupycorporatism.com/earths-axis-may-shift-five-inches-on-march-22-2012/
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#3144981 - 01/30/13 12:07 AM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: Bambi Buster]
in the dog house!
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What does that have to do with this thread.......... your digging hard to do what.......Do you have issues with this lady, she dump you or something \:D
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#3144991 - 01/30/13 12:25 AM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: Bambi Buster]
Stalkhunter
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 Originally Posted By: Bambi Buster
Wow. The lady who authored this article is nuttier than a fruitcake. Sorry, but there's just no nice way to put it.


The scholar has returned enlighten me. better yet give up your guns. your gov will protect you.
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#3144997 - 01/30/13 12:35 AM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: Bambi Buster]
Stalkhunter
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 Originally Posted By: Bambi Buster
She also offers this gem of astrophysical wisdom in another article.

"MARCH 22, 2012 EARTH AXIS WILL SHIFT FIVE INCHES WITH a NINE MAGNITUDE QUAKE EXPECTED in a PACIFIC OCEAN EVENT, WHEN EARTH PASSES THROUGH A GRAVITY TROUGH CONNECTING THE SUN AND AND an INBOUND HEAVY-MASS OBJECT"

http://occupycorporatism.com/earths-axis-may-shift-five-inches-on-march-22-2012/


this artcle has nothing to do with what other news agency are reporting. also let me tell you this, these marines are not the first to train for this. Do i have first hand knowledge. You bet i do, i will swear on my kids lives why because i did this training in N.C while i was in the Marines. I never talked about this. Because Its time B.B you have no idea what your talking about.
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#3144998 - 01/30/13 12:37 AM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: Stalkhunter]
Bambi Buster
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 Originally Posted By: Stalkhunter
 Originally Posted By: Bambi Buster
Wow. The lady who authored this article is nuttier than a fruitcake. Sorry, but there's just no nice way to put it.


The scholar has returned enlighten me. better yet give up your guns. your gov will protect you.


As I asked above, please explain to us what is sinister, cause for alarm, hair on fire and predictive of martial law about the statements in her opening paragraph:

"Competitive Outcomes , an organization training young military recruits from the JROTC, ROTC, cadet programs, foreign militaries and police and fire departments are conducting customized drill training exercises, seminars and providing manuals in 2013 in Marietta, Georgia; Los Angeles and San Diego, California. They work with the US Navy, armed and unarmed divisions of ROTC and JROTC; as well as the Air Force."
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#3145000 - 01/30/13 12:39 AM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: Stalkhunter]
Stalkhunter
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I also balked at these order as did many other Marines in this training, and we put it into action during Hugo oh you wont out about either. So just keep your head stuck in the sand.
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#3145002 - 01/30/13 12:41 AM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: Bambi Buster]
in the dog house!
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Clean out your pm BB
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#3145004 - 01/30/13 12:42 AM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: Stalkhunter]
Bambi Buster
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 Originally Posted By: Stalkhunter
 Originally Posted By: Bambi Buster
She also offers this gem of astrophysical wisdom in another article.

"MARCH 22, 2012 EARTH AXIS WILL SHIFT FIVE INCHES WITH a NINE MAGNITUDE QUAKE EXPECTED in a PACIFIC OCEAN EVENT, WHEN EARTH PASSES THROUGH A GRAVITY TROUGH CONNECTING THE SUN AND AND an INBOUND HEAVY-MASS OBJECT"

http://occupycorporatism.com/earths-axis-may-shift-five-inches-on-march-22-2012/


this artcle has nothing to do with what other news agency are reporting. also let me tell you this, these marines are not the first to train for this. Do i have first hand knowledge. You bet i do, i will swear on my kids lives why because i did this training in N.C while i was in the Marines. I never talked about this. Because Its time B.B you have no idea what your talking about.


Having spent time training, training with, and being trained by Marines and other branches of the armed forces and other government agenicies, I do have a pretty good idea of what I'm talking about. I see cause for alarm in a great many things, but the U.S. military doing real world training in U.S. cities is not one of them.
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#3145008 - 01/30/13 12:49 AM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: in the dog house!]
Bambi Buster
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Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 7522
Loc: Middle Tennessee

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 Originally Posted By: in the dog house!
What does that have to do with this thread.......... your digging hard to do what.......Do you have issues with this lady, she dump you or something \:D


I've been dumped by far better, or at least more sane than her. It tooking me about 90 seconds of "digging hard" (just looking at some of her other articles at random) to come up with that one.
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#3145009 - 01/30/13 12:53 AM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: Bambi Buster]
in the dog house!
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Posts: 7934
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Right over your head obv \:D \:D \:D \:D \:D
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#3145015 - 01/30/13 01:00 AM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: in the dog house!]
Bambi Buster
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 Originally Posted By: in the dog house!
Right over your head obv \:D \:D \:D \:D \:D


Apparently.
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#3145017 - 01/30/13 01:00 AM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: Bambi Buster]
Stalkhunter
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Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 3846
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 Originally Posted By: Bambi Buster
 Originally Posted By: Stalkhunter
 Originally Posted By: Bambi Buster
She also offers this gem of astrophysical wisdom in another article.

"MARCH 22, 2012 EARTH AXIS WILL SHIFT FIVE INCHES WITH a NINE MAGNITUDE QUAKE EXPECTED in a PACIFIC OCEAN EVENT, WHEN EARTH PASSES THROUGH A GRAVITY TROUGH CONNECTING THE SUN AND AND an INBOUND HEAVY-MASS OBJECT"

http://occupycorporatism.com/earths-axis-may-shift-five-inches-on-march-22-2012/





this artcle has nothing to do with what other news agency are reporting. also let me tell you this, these marines are not the first to train for this. Do i have first hand knowledge. You bet i do, i will swear on my kids lives why because i did this training in N.C while i was in the Marines. I never talked about this. Because Its time B.B you have no idea what your talking about.


Having spent time training, training with, and being trained by Marines and other branches of the armed forces and other government agenicies, I do have a pretty good idea of what I'm talking about. I see cause for alarm in a great many things, but the U.S. military doing real world training in U.S. cities is not one of them.




now i understand you dont have to say anything else. I know your kind all to well, I will assume you never wore a military uniform.


Edited by Stalkhunter (01/30/13 01:01 AM)
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#3145018 - 01/30/13 01:04 AM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: Stalkhunter]
Stalkhunter
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your intel has sowed me the light. We are down here.
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#3145019 - 01/30/13 01:05 AM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: Stalkhunter]
Stalkhunter
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Registered: 07/17/11
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your intel has showed me the light. We are down here.
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#3145020 - 01/30/13 01:05 AM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: Stalkhunter]
Bambi Buster
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 Originally Posted By: Stalkhunter
 Originally Posted By: Bambi Buster
 Originally Posted By: Stalkhunter
 Originally Posted By: Bambi Buster
She also offers this gem of astrophysical wisdom in another article.

"MARCH 22, 2012 EARTH AXIS WILL SHIFT FIVE INCHES WITH a NINE MAGNITUDE QUAKE EXPECTED in a PACIFIC OCEAN EVENT, WHEN EARTH PASSES THROUGH A GRAVITY TROUGH CONNECTING THE SUN AND AND an INBOUND HEAVY-MASS OBJECT"

http://occupycorporatism.com/earths-axis-may-shift-five-inches-on-march-22-2012/





this artcle has nothing to do with what other news agency are reporting. also let me tell you this, these marines are not the first to train for this. Do i have first hand knowledge. You bet i do, i will swear on my kids lives why because i did this training in N.C while i was in the Marines. I never talked about this. Because Its time B.B you have no idea what your talking about.


Having spent time training, training with, and being trained by Marines and other branches of the armed forces and other government agenicies, I do have a pretty good idea of what I'm talking about. I see cause for alarm in a great many things, but the U.S. military doing real world training in U.S. cities is not one of them.




now i understand you dont have to say anything else. I know your kind all to well, I will assume you never wore a military uniform.


Your assumption would be correct. But those who did wear a military uniform alongside whom I served in harm's way were some of the finest people I have ever known, especially one Marine and co-worker who died in the service of our country 22 years ago this week.
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#3145021 - 01/30/13 01:15 AM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: Bambi Buster]
Stalkhunter
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!ell i chewed more dirt and sand then you will ever know. i carry the scars, the hurt of my lost Buddies. The guilt of sending my Young Marines to kuwait while I was unable to deploy. Because i was still healing from operation Just Cause. So dont you dare insult me, I was in the Middle East. I lost friends in Beruit.

Edited by Stalkhunter (01/30/13 01:15 AM)
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#3145023 - 01/30/13 01:18 AM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: Stalkhunter]
Stalkhunter
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You can just say thank you and be on your way.
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#3145025 - 01/30/13 01:22 AM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: Stalkhunter]
Stalkhunter
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I lost Marines in Korea, doing Team Spirit just so people here could be safe. I picked up the burnt bodies I sleep with this do you? Dam u, I have not talked about this in 20 year.

Edited by Stalkhunter (01/30/13 01:23 AM)
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#3145026 - 01/30/13 01:23 AM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: Stalkhunter]
Stalkhunter
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God forgive me
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#3145053 - 01/30/13 05:07 AM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: Bambi Buster]
nodog
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They've done that here before many times, once it made national news when Mayor pantload refused to let them train.

I once read a historical fiction book ( a book that tells history through the eye's of a fictional character) that explained why, in times of trouble especially where martial law is in place, to never be caught up in a town, but flee to the mountains. He wrote many histories in that platform, I've check out his facts and haven't found him wrong once.

There is only one way anything like a civil war will happen and that's if a section of the military declares they are independent of the government. Hearing rumors like that is the real cause for alarm.

It just maybe the training is being carried out with rebellion in the shadows. In other words, some who fear martial law at the hands of an oppressive government my come to see these exercises as pure genius.
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#3145075 - 01/30/13 05:31 AM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: nodog]
Crappie Luck Moderator
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The military is not sworn to protect or serve the govt. They are sworn to uphold the Constitution against enemies foreign and domestic.

Obama's "Civilian Military force" will have the shoulder the burden of installing a dictator if that is to be the goal.
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#3145133 - 01/30/13 06:34 AM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: Crappie Luck]
348Winchester
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How many service members are patriots and really know anything about the Constitution?

I'm not coming down on servicemen, but how many will just blindly follow orders? That's what they are "trained" to do.

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#3145239 - 01/30/13 08:28 AM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: 348Winchester]
44fanatic
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As a veteran of 21 years, I do not believe that the Government will be able to use the military as a tool to achieve a "dictatorship". Members of the military are trained on lawful and unlawful orders, they are members of the community, they have family and roots, they are AMERICANS and PATRIOTS.

I do feel there is a need for martial law and military action during times of crisis. These times of crisis may be a significant natural disaster, terrorist attack, a successful attack on our infrastructure. Heck, maybe even a cutoff of subsidies and there is inner city rioting. With many foreseeable events, the military will be used to maintain order and preserve infrastructure, not occupy territory or promote political agendas.

The military must train and be prepared for these types of events. They must be able to work with and understand the functions and capabilities other agencies, as well as those agencies understanding what the military can do.
 Originally Posted By: 348Winchester
How many service members are patriots and really know anything about the Constitution?

I'm not coming down on servicemen, but how many will just blindly follow orders? That's what they are "trained" to do.


As for "following orders"...with the military, you cannot think of an individual. You must look at the collective mind of the group and the chain of command. Team, Squad, Platoon, Company, Battalion, Brigade, Corp...There is not one person thinking and analyzing, there are many. The voice of reason will be spoken and heard. As a Soldier, do I want to shoot at someone who may be my best friend’s family? Will the military be able to segregate units so that I am not deployed to my home town or state?

A well trained and knowledgably force will be able to accomplish its mission. With this type of training, the military will be better prepared, less fearful and thus, less likely to fire upon American citizens.




Edited by 44fanatic (01/30/13 08:30 AM)
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#3145242 - 01/30/13 08:31 AM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: 44fanatic]
44fanatic
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http://www.clarksvilleonline.com/2009/09...g-into-troy-tn/

101st Airborne Soldiers to conduct air assault training into Troy, TN

September 23, 2009
Fort Campbell – The Soldiers of the 2nd Battalion, 327th Infantry Regiment of the 1st Brigade Combat Team, along with the 5th Battalion, 101st Aviation Regiment, 101st Combat Aviation Brigade, both of the 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault), will perform a scenario-based air assault for training purposes, in the Troy, Tenn., Sept. 29-30 from 10 a.m. until 4 p.m.

Once the areas are prepared for training, Soldiers will be flown to Troy via helicopters from Fort Campbell and dropped onto multiple locations within the city, such as they would in a real-world, combat scenario. Once the helicopters land, Soldiers from 2-327 will exit the aircraft and conduct the training exercise to clear each pre-determined building based on the scenario. There will be four different objective areas.

This will be the first time the Soldiers from the 101st have conducted this type of training exercise in this area. The local community leaders have been in contact with key leaders from the Fort Campbell and information has already been distributed throughout the local communities.

The Soldiers are conducting the training in order to provide them with pertinent realistic training in unfamiliar terrain to prepare them for possible contingency operations around the world.
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#3145280 - 01/30/13 08:59 AM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: 44fanatic]
44fanatic
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I see four possible incidents upon which the military would use deadly force:

1) Rioters charging and attacking barricade/control lines
2) Right wing extremists (individuals and groups) who do not believe in the federal government firing upon military and agency positions/facilites. Hostile actions (ambush, sniper) would be initiated by the extremist. Or action being taken by the military based upon intelligence reporting of extremist strongholds and locations with the extremist initiating the hostile action.
3) A "panic" situation where a military member feels threatened and fires upon civilians. This would be investigated and the information gained would then be used and disseminated to troops so that hopefully another similar incident would not happen again.
4) Troops returning fire upon disgruntled individuals. This would be deliberate and directed fire, not a squad opening up with all weapons. This is where the training really kicks in.


Edited by 44fanatic (01/30/13 09:01 AM)
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#3145299 - 01/30/13 09:07 AM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: 44fanatic]
Grizzly Johnson
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We will see.... probably in the near future the way things are going...
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#3145350 - 01/30/13 09:40 AM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: 44fanatic]
in the dog house!
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Registered: 11/29/12
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 Originally Posted By: 44fanatic
I see four possible incidents upon which the military would use deadly force:

1) Rioters charging and attacking barricade/control lines
2) Right wing extremists (individuals and groups) who do not believe in the federal government firing upon military and agency positions/facilites. Hostile actions (ambush, sniper) would be initiated by the extremist. Or action being taken by the military based upon intelligence reporting of extremist strongholds and locations with the extremist initiating the hostile action.
3) A "panic" situation where a military member feels threatened and fires upon civilians. This would be investigated and the information gained would then be used and disseminated to troops so that hopefully another similar incident would not happen again.
4) Troops returning fire upon disgruntled individuals. This would be deliberate and directed fire, not a squad opening up with all weapons. This is where the training really kicks in.



Or after a hurricane comes through and the military goes in to disarm the people that are just trying to protect themselves from looting. If that happened here and the tried to take peoples gun around here, well I dont think it would end like it did in LA.
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#3145363 - 01/30/13 09:52 AM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: in the dog house!]
44fanatic
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 Originally Posted By: in the dog house!
 Originally Posted By: 44fanatic
I see four possible incidents upon which the military would use deadly force:

1) Rioters charging and attacking barricade/control lines
2) Right wing extremists (individuals and groups) who do not believe in the federal government firing upon military and agency positions/facilites. Hostile actions (ambush, sniper) would be initiated by the extremist. Or action being taken by the military based upon intelligence reporting of extremist strongholds and locations with the extremist initiating the hostile action.
3) A "panic" situation where a military member feels threatened and fires upon civilians. This would be investigated and the information gained would then be used and disseminated to troops so that hopefully another similar incident would not happen again.
4) Troops returning fire upon disgruntled individuals. This would be deliberate and directed fire, not a squad opening up with all weapons. This is where the training really kicks in.



Or after a hurricane comes through and the military goes in to disarm the people that are just trying to protect themselves from looting. If that happened here and the tried to take peoples gun around here, well I dont think it would end like it did in LA.


From a military perspective and law enforcement perspective, I would not want armed indivuals ON THE STREET during or following a chaotic event. In their homes or place of business, highly encouraged. After Katrina, the military and other involved agencies would have conducted after action reviews and published "lessons learned". These Lessons Learned and other input would then be placed into policy and regulation as to how to handle similar situations.

This issue has been addressed:
SEC. 3. PROHIBITION ON CONFISCATION OF FIREARMS DURING CERTAIN NATIONAL EMERGENCIES.

Title VII of the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act (42 U.S.C. 5201 et seq.) is amended by adding at the end the following:

`SEC. 706. FIREARMS POLICIES.

`(a) Prohibition on Confiscation of Firearms- No officer or employee of the United States (including any member of the uniformed services), person operating pursuant to or under color of Federal law, receiving Federal funds, under the control of any Federal official, or providing services to such an officer, employee, or other person, while acting in support of relief from a major disaster or emergency, may--
`(1) temporarily or permanently seize, or authorize seizure of, any firearm the possession of which is not prohibited under Federal or State law, other than for forfeiture in compliance with Federal law or as evidence in a criminal investigation;
`(2) require the registration of any firearm for which registration is not required by Federal or State law;
`(3) prohibit the possession of any firearm, or promulgate any rule, regulation, or order prohibiting the possession of any firearm, in any place or by any person where such possession is not otherwise prohibited by Federal or State law; or
`(4) prohibit the carrying of a firearm by any person otherwise authorized to carry firearms under Federal or State law, solely because such person is operating under the direction, control, or supervision of a Federal agency in support of relief from a major disaster or emergency.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:S.+2599:


Edited by 44fanatic (01/30/13 10:00 AM)
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#3145393 - 01/30/13 10:17 AM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: 44fanatic]
Stalkhunter
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I know the Constitution and I know my Oath I took.
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#3145396 - 01/30/13 10:19 AM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: Stalkhunter]
Stalkhunter
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The Patriot Act and NDAA Act, is unconstitutional.
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#3145408 - 01/30/13 10:29 AM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: Stalkhunter]
Stalkhunter
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Why was I allowed to carry rounds in SC, Cal, but was not allowed to in Beruit. hmmm
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#3145419 - 01/30/13 10:36 AM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: Stalkhunter]
44fanatic
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We both took the same oath...

Educate me on the NDAA and what is unconsitutional about it.
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#3145481 - 01/30/13 11:14 AM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: 44fanatic]
348Winchester
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Amen Stalkhunter.
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#3145553 - 01/30/13 12:19 PM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: 348Winchester]
Bambi Buster
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44fantic,

Thank you for a series of logical, rational, dispassionate and informative posts in this thread and elsewhere. I have no doubt that The Kenyan and his minions are dead set on transforming our nation into something unrecognizable and repulsive. I also believe that imagining their sinister hand behind every tree and under every rock, as some are inclined to do, is not only paranoid, but does a great disservice by distracting attention that could be better given elsewhere. Worse still, it provides ammunition to the opposition that is trying to paint us as raving (right)wingnuts.
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#3145595 - 01/30/13 12:49 PM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: 44fanatic]
OHVATN
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 Originally Posted By: 44fanatic
We both took the same oath...

Educate me on the NDAA and what is unconsitutional about it.


http://www.aclu.org/indefinite-detention...thorization-act
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#3145613 - 01/30/13 12:58 PM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: OHVATN]
Stalkhunter
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"The 5th Amendment to the Constitution states that 'No person shall be…deprived of…liberty…without due process of law.'"

"An authorization to use military force, a declaration of war, or any similar authority shall not authorize the detention without charge or trial of a citizen or lawful permanent resident of the United States apprehended in the United States, unless an Act of Congress expressly authorizes such detention."

THIS IS IN THE NDAA AND Congress does not have the right to detain American Citizens with out due process


Edited by Stalkhunter (01/30/13 01:02 PM)
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#3145615 - 01/30/13 12:58 PM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: OHVATN]
OHVATN
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 Originally Posted By: sds1961
 Originally Posted By: 44fanatic
We both took the same oath...

Educate me on the NDAA and what is unconsitutional about it.


http://www.aclu.org/indefinite-detention...thorization-act



I would add that a federal judge (Southern District of NY) last year issued a preliminary injunction against the NDAA's indefinite detention provision because it likely violates the 1st and 5th Amendments.

44fanatic, respectfully, I am not comfortable with the U.S. armed forces, as an institution or individually, determining what is or is not a constitutional order. I would also submit that such determinations cannot be conducive to unit cohesion, as reasonable (and unreasonable) minds can disagree.
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#3145624 - 01/30/13 01:05 PM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: OHVATN]
Stalkhunter
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President Obama, no different from his predecessors, is particularly well versed in how to use the theater of politics to his advantage. Consider that amidst the cacophony of the fiscal cliff debates, the president signed into law two pieces of legislation, the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act Amendments Act (FISA) and the National Defense Authorization Act of 2013 (NDAA), which further erode our most basic constitutional rights by reauthorizing sweeping police powers to be used by the federal government.
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#3145625 - 01/30/13 01:05 PM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: Stalkhunter]
Stalkhunter
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FISA allows the federal government to spy on Americans who communicate with people overseas, whether they are journalists, family members, or business associates, while the NDAA reauthorizes the military's ability to indefinitely detain American citizens, a provision which first reared its head in the 2012 NDAA.
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#3145629 - 01/30/13 01:08 PM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: Stalkhunter]
Stalkhunter
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Just as the enactment of the NDAA ensures that no one is safe from indefinite detention, Congress' renewal and Obama's signing of the FISA Amendments Act, which gives the executive branch broad power to spy on American citizens who contact people overseas, leaves us powerless in the face of government surveillance. Making matters worse, there are few out there--government official, congressman or judge -- who are willing to step up and put a stop to these violations of our rights. Even that once-vaunted Fourth Estate, the media, which was supposed to act as a check on the government's power grabs, has become complicit in torpedoing our freedoms.

Un Constitutional no matter what spin you want to put on it period This FISA Amendment is wrong period
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#3145633 - 01/30/13 01:10 PM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: Stalkhunter]
Stalkhunter
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Thankfully, there are still some willing to stand against the tide. One notable group, comprised of writers, academics, journalists, and activists, including former New York Times war correspondent Chris Hedges, Pentagon Papers whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg, and writer Noam Chomsky, is waging their war against Obama and his minions in court, challenging any attempt by the government to use the indefinite detention provision of the NDAA to limit constitutionally protected activity. For example, it is conceivable that those protesting American foreign policy, or those who interview suspected terrorists for journalistic purposes, may be considered in violation of the NDAA. As Hedges, a Pulitzer Prize winner, explained, "I, as a foreign correspondent, had had direct contact with 17 organizations that are on [the US government's list of terrorist organizations], from al-Qaida to Hamas to Hezbollah to the PKK, and there's no provision within that particular section [of the NDAA] to exempt journalists."

There are also those within the judiciary who recognize the need for caution. On September 12, 2012, U.S. District Judge Katherine Forrest of the Southern District Court of New York ruled in favor of Hedges, placing a permanent injunction on the indefinite detention provision. Unfortunately, that ruling has since been overturned by the Second Circuit Court of Appeals pending its assessment of the provision's constitutionality. With any protections against indefinite detention in legal limbo, Hedges warned, "The appellate court is all that separates us and a state that is no different than any other military dictatorship."

Indeed, the fact that Americans are utterly dependent on a small group of judges, themselves part of the ruling elite in America, to safeguard their fundamental freedoms shows just how far we've fallen as a society and culture. When the rights and liberties which we once took for granted are little more than exceptions to the rule, open to interpretation by government officials who can throw them out based upon expediency, we have entered a new paradigm in America, and it doesn't bode well for the future of democracy.
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#3145660 - 01/30/13 01:24 PM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: OHVATN]
OHVATN
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NDAA, Patriot Act, executive orders to govern future 'national emergencies,' etc. are just the latest in a long line of hysterical enactments. Many so-called "conservatives" on this forum and elsewhere banged the drum in favor of these unconstitutional enactments so that we Americans can be safe from the boogeyman behind every bush. The boogeyman used to be Russian or 'Chicom' and is now Muslim (and long before was Japanese or German). Wouldn't it now be ironic when "conservatives" are re-branded "far right wing extremists" and get an up close and personal look at the NDAA given to them by those same left-wing, 'progressives'/socialists who found the Patriot Act, then NDAA so unsavory between 2001-2008. Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it or as Benjamin Franklin said "those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

"Our government has kept us in a perpetual state of fear -- kept us in a continuous stampede of patriotic fervor -- with the cry of grave national emergency. Always there has been some terrible evil at home or some monstrous foreign power that was going to gobble us up if we did not blindly rally behind it by furnishing exhorbitant funds demanded. Yet, in retrospect, these disasters never seem to have happened, seem never to have been quite real."

General Douglas MacArthur
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#3145669 - 01/30/13 01:26 PM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: Stalkhunter]
OHVATN
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 Originally Posted By: Stalkhunter
Thankfully, there are still some willing to stand against the tide. One notable group, comprised of writers, academics, journalists, and activists, including former New York Times war correspondent Chris Hedges, Pentagon Papers whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg, and writer Noam Chomsky, is waging their war against Obama and his minions in court, challenging any attempt by the government to use the indefinite detention provision of the NDAA to limit constitutionally protected activity. For example, it is conceivable that those protesting American foreign policy, or those who interview suspected terrorists for journalistic purposes, may be considered in violation of the NDAA. As Hedges, a Pulitzer Prize winner, explained, "I, as a foreign correspondent, had had direct contact with 17 organizations that are on [the US government's list of terrorist organizations], from al-Qaida to Hamas to Hezbollah to the PKK, and there's no provision within that particular section [of the NDAA] to exempt journalists."

There are also those within the judiciary who recognize the need for caution. On September 12, 2012, U.S. District Judge Katherine Forrest of the Southern District Court of New York ruled in favor of Hedges, placing a permanent injunction on the indefinite detention provision. Unfortunately, that ruling has since been overturned by the Second Circuit Court of Appeals pending its assessment of the provision's constitutionality. With any protections against indefinite detention in legal limbo, Hedges warned, "The appellate court is all that separates us and a state that is no different than any other military dictatorship."

Indeed, the fact that Americans are utterly dependent on a small group of judges, themselves part of the ruling elite in America, to safeguard their fundamental freedoms shows just how far we've fallen as a society and culture. When the rights and liberties which we once took for granted are little more than exceptions to the rule, open to interpretation by government officials who can throw them out based upon expediency, we have entered a new paradigm in America, and it doesn't bode well for the future of democracy.


Here, Here.
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#3145741 - 01/30/13 02:07 PM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: OHVATN]
Stalkhunter
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All these states are wrong, even Tn has proposed legislation for it.

NDAA Nullification: Status of Bills Around the Country

Posted by Michael Boldin
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Now that State legislative sessions for 2013 are starting to get underway, it’s a good time for a quick overview of who’s looking at bills to nullify NDAA kidnapping powers (the ones called “indefinite detention”). In 2012, Virginia became the first state to pass a law along these lines. And, while Arizona and Michigan were very close, they didn’t get to the finish line. We expect those states – and many more – to consider bills in 2013.

Keep up to date with NDAA Nullification legislation around the country with the Tenth Amendment Center legislative tracking page HERE: http://tracking.tenthamendmentcenter.com/ndaa/

Here’s what’s happening so far:

In Texas, State Representative Lyle Larson introduced House Bill 149 (HB149), the Texas Liberty Preservation Act. This might be the strongest anti-NDAA bill introduced yet. It states, in part:


Sections 1021 and 1022 of the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012 (Pub. L. No. 112-81) violate portions of federal law, the United States Constitution, and the Texas Constitution and, as such, are invalid and illegal in this state.

It also, like Virginia’s law, requires full noncompliance with the federal act:


It is the policy of this state to refuse to provide material support for or to participate in any way with the implementation within this state of Sections 1021 and 1022 of the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012 (Pub. L. No. 112-81). Any act to enforce or attempt to enforce those laws is in violation of this subchapter.

But, the Texas legislation takes it a step further, codifying into State law criminal penalties for violation of the act by even federal agents:


A person who is an official, agent, or employee of the United States or an employee of a corporation providing services to the United States commits an offense if the person enforces or attempts to enforce a statute, a rule or regulation, an order, or any law of the United States in violation of this subchapter.

An offense under Subsection
(a) is a Class A misdemeanor punishable by confinement for a term not to exceed one year, a fine of not more than $10,000, or both the confinement and the fine.

Report HERE

Join Nullify NDAA Texas group on Facebook HERE

In Wyoming, state representative Kendell Kroeker, along with reps Hunt and Miller, and Senator Case, are introducing a bill that declares the indefinite detention provisions of the 2012 NDAA to be unconstitutional, prohibiting enforcement of the federal act.

H.B. 0114 – The Liberty Preservation Act – is currently up for consideration in the Wyoming legislature, and could be heard later this week. It declares the above sections of the NDAA to be “inimical to the liberty, security and well being of the people of Wyoming” and further states that they were “adopted by the United States congress in violation of the limits of federal power in the United States Constitution.”

The bill not only cites the various constitutional violations of the NDAA, but makes it a criminal misdemeanor for state employees and public officers to participate in trying to implement the aforementioned provisions. This would be a bold step for Wyoming. If passed, they could possibly be the first state to make participation with the feds in kidnapping people under the NDAA a criminal act.

Report HERE

Join Nullify NDAA Wyoming group on Facebook HERE

In Colorado, State Representative Jared Wright has introduced HB13-1045, which states “An agency of this state, a political subdivision of this state, an employee of an agency of this state or of a political subdivision of this acting in his or her official capacity, and a member of the Colorado National Guard serving in his or her official capacity are prohibited from aiding an agency of the armed forces of the United States in any investigation, prosecution, or detention of any person pursuant to section 1021 of the “National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012″.

Join Nullify NDAA Colorado group on Facebook HERE

In Indiana, Senate Bill 400 was introduced on 01-10. It would not only bar state participation with NDAA indefinite detention, but it also provides criminal charges for both state and federal agents who attempt to carry out such acts within the state.

Join the Nullify NDAA Indiana group on Facebook HERE

In South Carolina, Senator Tom Davis introduced the ”NDAA Nullification Act of 2013.” It states, “No agency of the State, agency of a political subdivision of the State, officer or employee of the State, officer or employee of a political subdivision of the State, acting in his official capacity, to include any member of the South Carolina Military Department on official duty, or employees of any state or local detention facility may engage in any activity that aids an agency of the armed forces of the United States in execution of 50 U.S.C. 1541, as provided by the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012, in the investigation, prosecution, or detainment of any citizen of the United States in violation of Section 3, Article I, and Section 14, Article I of the South Carolina Constitution.”

Report HERE

Join Nullify NDAA South Carolina group on Facebook HERE

In Missouri, Representative Fitzpatrick, along with co-sponsors Representative Miller and Representative Curtman have introduced House bill 57, which reads, “Notwithstanding any contrary provision of law, no state agency, political subdivision, employee of such state agency or political subdivision acting in his or her official capacity, or member of the Missouri National Guard on official state duty, shall knowingly aid an agency of the armed forces of the United States in the detention of any citizen pursuant to 50 U.S.C. Section 1541 as provided by the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012 or any subsequent provisions of law.”
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#3145754 - 01/30/13 02:15 PM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: Stalkhunter]
in the dog house!
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I guess Stalk Hunter knows a weee bit more about whats up than Bambi Buster THINKS he knows. Great post Stalk Hunter!!!
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#3145913 - 01/30/13 04:24 PM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: in the dog house!]
44fanatic
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This post is not attack on anyone, nor a defense of Bambi Buster. BB has worked with the Border Patrol and has opened his home to many veterans. To what capacity he worked with the Border Patrol, I have no idea, but I am willing to bet that it is much higher than just patrolling the border. I have an intelligence background. We question the sources of information and the message they are trying to deliver.

Anything that is extreme right wing I will discount, I dont view the source as credible unless it is backed with verifiable facts and information. We must learn to deliver information in a way that is not inflamatory nor in a way that takes away the credibility of reporting. It is very easy to influence an indivual with information that follows their way of thinking. Difficult to influence a neutral person with unsupported facts. Present the fence rider with supported facts and you should be able to influence them.
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#3145947 - 01/30/13 04:46 PM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: 44fanatic]
Stalkhunter
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well if the facts are from main stream media lol then we might as well give up. More stuff is censored then you can imagine, but we have a transparent government.They tell the truth on everything.

Well why did obama pass that they only get 45 mins to read bills makes me wonder whats really in the bill.. How can millions talking the dame stuff be wrong. why havent the true documents on JFK been released yet? Because it is onecof the biggest scandels in US history. If 9/11 was a cover up it make everything else look like childs play. So now why is it ok for us to go to all these other countries kill their people and to never think those same orders wont be issued here.

research civil war hmmmm the President ordered the shooting of Americans dont spin it. Its what he did. Under The Constitution the Southern States had the right to leave the Union period and the rights are still there today.



Edited by Stalkhunter (01/30/13 04:46 PM)
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#3145963 - 01/30/13 04:56 PM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: 44fanatic]
Bambi Buster
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 Originally Posted By: 44fanatic
This post is not attack on anyone, nor a defense of Bambi Buster. BB has worked with the Border Patrol and has opened his home to many veterans. To what capacity he worked with the Border Patrol, I have no idea, but I am willing to bet that it is much higher than just patrolling the border. I have an intelligence background. We question the sources of information and the message they are trying to deliver.

Anything that is extreme right wing I will discount, I dont view the source as credible unless it is backed with verifiable facts and information. We must learn to deliver information in a way that is not inflamatory nor in a way that takes away the credibility of reporting. It is very easy to influence an indivual with information that follows their way of thinking. Difficult to influence a neutral person with unsupported facts. Present the fence rider with supported facts and you should be able to influence them.


The first three sentences aside, I strongly encourage everyone to put egos and hurt feelings aside and give 44's post a very careful and thoughtful read. It's not long or complicated, but it is profound and true.
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#3145983 - 01/30/13 05:13 PM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: Bambi Buster]
Stalkhunter
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BB i have pm 44fanantic he knows i am on the same page. I told him of my back ground and how i got were i am today. It saddens me. I am no longer have blind faith to believe in this Government, I use too. It took me a very long time to reach this point.

I think in the end we all here on Tndeer want the same thing. We agree to disagree, I would rather be wrong about what feel and what i have researched and learned.

Spent many tour in the Med and middle east. I pray everyday this is not happening and everyday we wake up just another nail gets put in the coffin of our freedoms.
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#3146125 - 01/30/13 07:02 PM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: 44fanatic]
Bowdacious
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 Originally Posted By: 44fanatic
 Originally Posted By: in the dog house!
 Originally Posted By: 44fanatic
I see four possible incidents upon which the military would use deadly force:

1) Rioters charging and attacking barricade/control lines
2) Right wing extremists (individuals and groups) who do not believe in the federal government firing upon military and agency positions/facilites. Hostile actions (ambush, sniper) would be initiated by the extremist. Or action being taken by the military based upon intelligence reporting of extremist strongholds and locations with the extremist initiating the hostile action.
3) A "panic" situation where a military member feels threatened and fires upon civilians. This would be investigated and the information gained would then be used and disseminated to troops so that hopefully another similar incident would not happen again.
4) Troops returning fire upon disgruntled individuals. This would be deliberate and directed fire, not a squad opening up with all weapons. This is where the training really kicks in.



Or after a hurricane comes through and the military goes in to disarm the people that are just trying to protect themselves from looting. If that happened here and the tried to take peoples gun around here, well I dont think it would end like it did in LA.


From a military perspective and law enforcement perspective, I would not want armed indivuals ON THE STREET during or following a chaotic event. In their homes or place of business, highly encouraged. After Katrina, the military and other involved agencies would have conducted after action reviews and published "lessons learned". These Lessons Learned and other input would then be placed into policy and regulation as to how to handle similar situations.

This issue has been addressed:
SEC. 3. PROHIBITION ON CONFISCATION OF FIREARMS DURING CERTAIN NATIONAL EMERGENCIES.

Title VII of the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act (42 U.S.C. 5201 et seq.) is amended by adding at the end the following:

`SEC. 706. FIREARMS POLICIES.

`(a) Prohibition on Confiscation of Firearms- No officer or employee of the United States (including any member of the uniformed services), person operating pursuant to or under color of Federal law, receiving Federal funds, under the control of any Federal official, or providing services to such an officer, employee, or other person, while acting in support of relief from a major disaster or emergency, may--
`(1) temporarily or permanently seize, or authorize seizure of, any firearm the possession of which is not prohibited under Federal or State law, other than for forfeiture in compliance with Federal law or as evidence in a criminal investigation;
`(2) require the registration of any firearm for which registration is not required by Federal or State law;
`(3) prohibit the possession of any firearm, or promulgate any rule, regulation, or order prohibiting the possession of any firearm, in any place or by any person where such possession is not otherwise prohibited by Federal or State law; or
`(4) prohibit the carrying of a firearm by any person otherwise authorized to carry firearms under Federal or State law, solely because such person is operating under the direction, control, or supervision of a Federal agency in support of relief from a major disaster or emergency.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:S.+2599:

They were taking them from people's homes. Not just on the street. They went into homes and disarmed folks and left them with no protection. That will not happen at my house.
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#3146174 - 01/30/13 07:37 PM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: Bowdacious]
Bambi Buster
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 Originally Posted By: Bowdacious
 Originally Posted By: 44fanatic
[quote=in the dog house!][quote=44fanatic]
This issue has been addressed:
SEC. 3. PROHIBITION ON CONFISCATION OF FIREARMS DURING CERTAIN NATIONAL EMERGENCIES.

Title VII of the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act (42 U.S.C. 5201 et seq.) is amended by adding at the end the following:

`SEC. 706. FIREARMS POLICIES.

`(a) Prohibition on Confiscation of Firearms- No officer or employee of the United States (including any member of the uniformed services), person operating pursuant to or under color of Federal law, receiving Federal funds, under the control of any Federal official, or providing services to such an officer, employee, or other person, while acting in support of relief from a major disaster or emergency, may--
`(1) temporarily or permanently seize, or authorize seizure of, any firearm the possession of which is not prohibited under Federal or State law, other than for forfeiture in compliance with Federal law or as evidence in a criminal investigation;
`(2) require the registration of any firearm for which registration is not required by Federal or State law;
`(3) prohibit the possession of any firearm, or promulgate any rule, regulation, or order prohibiting the possession of any firearm, in any place or by any person where such possession is not otherwise prohibited by Federal or State law; or
`(4) prohibit the carrying of a firearm by any person otherwise authorized to carry firearms under Federal or State law, solely because such person is operating under the direction, control, or supervision of a Federal agency in support of relief from a major disaster or emergency.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:S.+2599:

They were taking them from people's homes. Not just on the street. They went into homes and disarmed folks and left them with no protection. That will not happen at my house.


Which is exactly why the law 44fantic pasted above was passed after it happened, to prevent it ever happening again.
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#3146428 - 01/30/13 10:16 PM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: Bambi Buster]
in the dog house!
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I hope that is one law they CAN and WILL enforce. That was so wrong.
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#3146439 - 01/30/13 10:42 PM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: 44fanatic]
nodog
4 Point


Registered: 08/12/12
Posts: 297
Loc: Ohio

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 Originally Posted By: 44fanatic


Anything that is extreme right wing I will discount, I dont view the source as credible unless it is backed with verifiable facts and information.
This is the second time you singled out one particular political group, the first you said you'd fire on them. I don't like what I'm reading if your speaking for the military/government.
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#3146468 - 01/30/13 11:23 PM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: Stalkhunter]
nodog
4 Point


Registered: 08/12/12
Posts: 297
Loc: Ohio

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 Originally Posted By: Stalkhunter
"The 5th Amendment to the Constitution states that 'No person shall be…deprived of…liberty…without due process of law.'"

"An authorization to use military force, a declaration of war, or any similar authority shall not authorize the detention without charge or trial of a citizen or lawful permanent resident of the United States apprehended in the United States, unless an Act of Congress expressly authorizes such detention."



THIS IS IN THE NDAA AND Congress does not have the right to detain American Citizens with out due process


How so? It says congress can authorize such detentions. Lincoln's example can happen today.

The 1807 Insurrection Act changed to The 2008 Defense Authorization Bill gives a lot of power. All it takes is the right classification of the event. The same constitution that gives the people the right to throw off an oppressive government also gives the government the authority to try and stop it. That is pretty much the way all laws are written. Best you not become the rope in the middle of that tug of war and why I say until we here of the military going against authority, forget about it, you'll just be labeled a terrorist (or right wing extremist) and done away with. The stock market will probably rally that day as well.

(1) The President may employ the armed forces, including the National Guard in Federal service, to--
(A) restore public order and enforce the laws of the United States when, as a result of a natural disaster, epidemic, or other serious public health emergency, terrorist attack or incident, or other condition in any State or possession of the United States, the President determines that--
(i) domestic violence has occurred to such an extent that the constituted authorities of the State or possession are incapable of maintaining public order; and
(ii) such violence results in a condition described in paragraph (2); or
(B) suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy if such insurrection, violation, combination, or conspiracy results in a condition described in paragraph (2).
(2) A condition described in this paragraph is a condition that--
(A) so hinders the execution of the laws of a State or possession, as applicable, and of the United States within that State or possession, that any part or class of its people is deprived of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law, and the constituted authorities of that State or possession are unable, fail, or refuse to protect that right, privilege, or immunity, or to give that protection; or
(B) opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws.
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#3146555 - 01/31/13 06:44 AM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: nodog]
44fanatic
12 Point


Registered: 01/01/08
Posts: 6126
Loc: Clarksville, Montgomery Cnty

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 Originally Posted By: nodog
 Originally Posted By: 44fanatic


Anything that is extreme right wing I will discount, I dont view the source as credible unless it is backed with verifiable facts and information.
This is the second time you singled out one particular political group, the first you said you'd fire on them. I don't like what I'm reading if your speaking for the military/government.



First of all, I can not speak for the government or military. I am retired and no longer have any influence. Second, I did not say I would fire, I provided scenarios in which I see the military firing on civilians. I can only speak of what I think would happen today...I can only base my judgements based upon my experience and knowledge.

The reason why I didnt mention left wing media...I dont much care for anything they have to say, yet I will read what is presented to me so that I am informed. As for EXTREME RIGHT WING media and groups, these are the folks who give the liberals their ammunition and make the conservatives look bad. These are the the seperatists who are willing to kill a cop when they are pulled over, the militias who do not pay taxes. If martial law is declared, they are the ones who the government percieves as a threat. And this is why I mentioned the extreme right wing in the shooting scenarios. The extreme right wing media is the one that publishes conspiracy theories, points out only small portions of law and regulation and the extreme impact of that law, not the full law, nor the impact of the full law or the intent of that law in an attempt to push an anti-government agenda. The riots I see coming from the inner city, the Obama lovers and generally parasites to society...maybe I should have declared this group as part of the left wing...but for the most part they are not liberals, they are only out for themselves, influenced by government checks, drugs and laziness.

I dont hate our government, I hate where it is going. I have faith that if we can pull our collective heads out of our arse, we can stop it and very slowly turn it around without a second revolution. I grew up in Montana, I was not raised in the South, I dont have the Southern heritage in my blood. I dont have the family stories of what happened following the Civil War. What I grew up with is a dispassion for our federal government trying to control our lives and saw a state that was always one of the last ones to fall to federal regulation, I am dang proud to have come from that state. I am a thinker, I think about what I am going to say, I think about what I read, I try to present a truth as I see it. I am a devils advocate, I will try to get you to see it from the other side. Am I doing you an injustice by agreeing with you on everything, yes I am. If I do not provide you with what I know or think, you may not know what to expect (generally speaking).


Edited by 44fanatic (01/31/13 07:08 AM)
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#3146625 - 01/31/13 08:11 AM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: 44fanatic]
nodog
4 Point


Registered: 08/12/12
Posts: 297
Loc: Ohio

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 Originally Posted By: 44fanatic
 Originally Posted By: nodog
 Originally Posted By: 44fanatic


Anything that is extreme right wing I will discount, I dont view the source as credible unless it is backed with verifiable facts and information.
This is the second time you singled out one particular political group, the first you said you'd fire on them. I don't like what I'm reading if your speaking for the military/government.



First of all, I can not speak for the government or military. I am retired and no longer have any influence. Second, I did not say I would fire, I provided scenarios in which I see the military firing on civilians. I can only speak of what I think would happen today...I can only base my judgements based upon my experience and knowledge.

The reason why I didnt mention left wing media...I dont much care for anything they have to say, yet I will read what is presented to me so that I am informed. As for EXTREME RIGHT WING media and groups, these are the folks who give the liberals their ammunition and make the conservatives look bad. These are the the seperatists who are willing to kill a cop when they are pulled over, the militias who do not pay taxes. If martial law is declared, they are the ones who the government percieves as a threat. And this is why I mentioned the extreme right wing in the shooting scenarios. The extreme right wing media is the one that publishes conspiracy theories, points out only small portions of law and regulation and the extreme impact of that law, not the full law, nor the impact of the full law or the intent of that law in an attempt to push an anti-government agenda. The riots I see coming from the inner city, the Obama lovers and generally parasites to society...maybe I should have declared this group as part of the left wing...but for the most part they are not liberals, they are only out for themselves, influenced by government checks, drugs and laziness.

I dont hate our government, I hate where it is going. I have faith that if we can pull our collective heads out of our arse, we can stop it and very slowly turn it around without a second revolution. I grew up in Montana, I was not raised in the South, I dont have the Southern heritage in my blood. I dont have the family stories of what happened following the Civil War. What I grew up with is a dispassion for our federal government trying to control our lives and saw a state that was always one of the last ones to fall to federal regulation, I am dang proud to have come from that state. I am a thinker, I think about what I am going to say, I think about what I read, I try to present a truth as I see it. I am a devils advocate, I will try to get you to see it from the other side. Am I doing you an injustice by agreeing with you on everything, yes I am. If I do not provide you with what I know or think, you may not know what to expect (generally speaking).


You still singled out one group.
As for hating government, That's like hating rat poison. Your yard and home is a garbage dump, rats take over and you put out rat poison which doesn't solve the problem and kills your pets.

Government is a God given institution put in place on this earth to punish all those that do not love their neighbor. It is not supposed to be good on purpose as further incentive for the people to get along. If people hate where it's going the fix is simple and it can only go there when we abuse each other.


Edited by nodog (01/31/13 08:12 AM)
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#3146639 - 01/31/13 08:28 AM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: nodog]
44fanatic
12 Point


Registered: 01/01/08
Posts: 6126
Loc: Clarksville, Montgomery Cnty

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 Originally Posted By: nodog
 Originally Posted By: 44fanatic
 Originally Posted By: nodog
 Originally Posted By: 44fanatic


Anything that is extreme right wing I will discount, I dont view the source as credible unless it is backed with verifiable facts and information.
This is the second time you singled out one particular political group, the first you said you'd fire on them. I don't like what I'm reading if your speaking for the military/government.






First of all, I can not speak for the government or military. I am retired and no longer have any influence. Second, I did not say I would fire, I provided scenarios in which I see the military firing on civilians. I can only speak of what I think would happen today...I can only base my judgements based upon my experience and knowledge.

The reason why I didnt mention left wing media...I dont much care for anything they have to say, yet I will read what is presented to me so that I am informed. As for EXTREME RIGHT WING media and groups, these are the folks who give the liberals their ammunition and make the conservatives look bad. These are the the seperatists who are willing to kill a cop when they are pulled over, the militias who do not pay taxes. If martial law is declared, they are the ones who the government percieves as a threat. And this is why I mentioned the extreme right wing in the shooting scenarios. The extreme right wing media is the one that publishes conspiracy theories, points out only small portions of law and regulation and the extreme impact of that law, not the full law, nor the impact of the full law or the intent of that law in an attempt to push an anti-government agenda. The riots I see coming from the inner city, the Obama lovers and generally parasites to society...maybe I should have declared this group as part of the left wing...but for the most part they are not liberals, they are only out for themselves, influenced by government checks, drugs and laziness.

I dont hate our government, I hate where it is going. I have faith that if we can pull our collective heads out of our arse, we can stop it and very slowly turn it around without a second revolution. I grew up in Montana, I was not raised in the South, I dont have the Southern heritage in my blood. I dont have the family stories of what happened following the Civil War. What I grew up with is a dispassion for our federal government trying to control our lives and saw a state that was always one of the last ones to fall to federal regulation, I am dang proud to have come from that state. I am a thinker, I think about what I am going to say, I think about what I read, I try to present a truth as I see it. I am a devils advocate, I will try to get you to see it from the other side. Am I doing you an injustice by agreeing with you on everything, yes I am. If I do not provide you with what I know or think, you may not know what to expect (generally speaking).


You still singled out one group.
As for hating government, That's like hating rat poison. Your yard and home is a garbage dump, rats take over and you put out rat poison which doesn't solve the problem and kills your pets.

Government is a God given institution put in place on this earth to punish all those that do not love their neighbor. It is not supposed to be good on purpose as further incentive for the people to get along. If people hate where it's going the fix is simple and it can only go there when we abuse each other.


I dont understand what you are trying to say here.


Edited by 44fanatic (01/31/13 08:29 AM)
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#3146687 - 01/31/13 09:17 AM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: 44fanatic]
Vermin93
10 Point


Registered: 12/11/10
Posts: 4622
Loc: Dallas, TX & Signal Mtn, TN

shocked Online
 Originally Posted By: 44fanatic
The reason why I didnt mention left wing media...I dont much care for anything they have to say, yet I will read what is presented to me so that I am informed.


What left wing media do you read and listen to?
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#3146705 - 01/31/13 09:34 AM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: Vermin93]
44fanatic
12 Point


Registered: 01/01/08
Posts: 6126
Loc: Clarksville, Montgomery Cnty

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 Originally Posted By: Vermin93
 Originally Posted By: 44fanatic
The reason why I didnt mention left wing media...I dont much care for anything they have to say, yet I will read what is presented to me so that I am informed.


What left wing media do you read and listen to?


Pretty much what gets posted on here and the MSN home page.
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#3146873 - 01/31/13 12:16 PM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: 44fanatic]
Bambi Buster
14 Point


Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 7522
Loc: Middle Tennessee

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 Originally Posted By: 44fanatic
 Originally Posted By: nodog
 Originally Posted By: 44fanatic
 Originally Posted By: nodog
 Originally Posted By: 44fanatic


Anything that is extreme right wing I will discount, I dont view the source as credible unless it is backed with verifiable facts and information.
This is the second time you singled out one particular political group, the first you said you'd fire on them. I don't like what I'm reading if your speaking for the military/government.






First of all, I can not speak for the government or military. I am retired and no longer have any influence. Second, I did not say I would fire, I provided scenarios in which I see the military firing on civilians. I can only speak of what I think would happen today...I can only base my judgements based upon my experience and knowledge.

The reason why I didnt mention left wing media...I dont much care for anything they have to say, yet I will read what is presented to me so that I am informed. As for EXTREME RIGHT WING media and groups, these are the folks who give the liberals their ammunition and make the conservatives look bad. These are the the seperatists who are willing to kill a cop when they are pulled over, the militias who do not pay taxes. If martial law is declared, they are the ones who the government percieves as a threat. And this is why I mentioned the extreme right wing in the shooting scenarios. The extreme right wing media is the one that publishes conspiracy theories, points out only small portions of law and regulation and the extreme impact of that law, not the full law, nor the impact of the full law or the intent of that law in an attempt to push an anti-government agenda. The riots I see coming from the inner city, the Obama lovers and generally parasites to society...maybe I should have declared this group as part of the left wing...but for the most part they are not liberals, they are only out for themselves, influenced by government checks, drugs and laziness.

I dont hate our government, I hate where it is going. I have faith that if we can pull our collective heads out of our arse, we can stop it and very slowly turn it around without a second revolution. I grew up in Montana, I was not raised in the South, I dont have the Southern heritage in my blood. I dont have the family stories of what happened following the Civil War. What I grew up with is a dispassion for our federal government trying to control our lives and saw a state that was always one of the last ones to fall to federal regulation, I am dang proud to have come from that state. I am a thinker, I think about what I am going to say, I think about what I read, I try to present a truth as I see it. I am a devils advocate, I will try to get you to see it from the other side. Am I doing you an injustice by agreeing with you on everything, yes I am. If I do not provide you with what I know or think, you may not know what to expect (generally speaking).


You still singled out one group.
As for hating government, That's like hating rat poison. Your yard and home is a garbage dump, rats take over and you put out rat poison which doesn't solve the problem and kills your pets.

Government is a God given institution put in place on this earth to punish all those that do not love their neighbor. It is not supposed to be good on purpose as further incentive for the people to get along. If people hate where it's going the fix is simple and it can only go there when we abuse each other.


I dont understand what you are trying to say here.


That makes at least two of us.
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#3146898 - 01/31/13 12:46 PM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: Bambi Buster]
Stalkhunter
10 Point


Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 3846
Loc: Knoxville TN

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MSN thats were you get info you are kidding right. Microsoft, Bill Gates.
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#3146904 - 01/31/13 12:52 PM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: Stalkhunter]
44fanatic
12 Point


Registered: 01/01/08
Posts: 6126
Loc: Clarksville, Montgomery Cnty

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Trust me, I dont get in depth news from MSN...LOL. Its just my internet home page.

When I am in my vehicle, I should add that I listen to Mike Valentine, Dave Ramsey, and Mike Huckabee.
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#3146912 - 01/31/13 12:56 PM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: 44fanatic]
Stalkhunter
10 Point


Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 3846
Loc: Knoxville TN

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 Originally Posted By: 44fanatic
Trust me, I dont get in depth news from MSN...LOL. Its just my internet home page.

When I am in my vehicle, I should add that I listen to Mike Valentine, Dave Ramsey, and Mike Huckabee.


ok lol you had me scared
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#3146928 - 01/31/13 01:11 PM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: Stalkhunter]
44fanatic
12 Point


Registered: 01/01/08
Posts: 6126
Loc: Clarksville, Montgomery Cnty

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 Originally Posted By: Stalkhunter
 Originally Posted By: 44fanatic
Trust me, I dont get in depth news from MSN...LOL. Its just my internet home page.

When I am in my vehicle, I should add that I listen to Mike Valentine, Dave Ramsey, and Mike Huckabee.


ok lol you had me scared


So...that leaves my primary news source as...wait for it...TNdeer. If you look at my posts in the political section, you will probably find them primarily focused on the military. If I post on another subject, you will probably find that I did some research before posting and will post links to a law or regulation.
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#3146950 - 01/31/13 01:38 PM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: 44fanatic]
OHVATN
4 Point


Registered: 10/09/12
Posts: 332
Loc: Middle TN

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 Originally Posted By: 44fanatic
 Originally Posted By: in the dog house!
 Originally Posted By: 44fanatic
I see four possible incidents upon which the military would use deadly force:

1) Rioters charging and attacking barricade/control lines
2) Right wing extremists (individuals and groups) who do not believe in the federal government firing upon military and agency positions/facilites. Hostile actions (ambush, sniper) would be initiated by the extremist. Or action being taken by the military based upon intelligence reporting of extremist strongholds and locations with the extremist initiating the hostile action.
3) A "panic" situation where a military member feels threatened and fires upon civilians. This would be investigated and the information gained would then be used and disseminated to troops so that hopefully another similar incident would not happen again.
4) Troops returning fire upon disgruntled individuals. This would be deliberate and directed fire, not a squad opening up with all weapons. This is where the training really kicks in.



Or after a hurricane comes through and the military goes in to disarm the people that are just trying to protect themselves from looting. If that happened here and the tried to take peoples gun around here, well I dont think it would end like it did in LA.


From a military perspective and law enforcement perspective, I would not want armed indivuals ON THE STREET during or following a chaotic event. In their homes or place of business, highly encouraged. After Katrina, the military and other involved agencies would have conducted after action reviews and published "lessons learned". These Lessons Learned and other input would then be placed into policy and regulation as to how to handle similar situations.

This issue has been addressed:
SEC. 3. PROHIBITION ON CONFISCATION OF FIREARMS DURING CERTAIN NATIONAL EMERGENCIES.

Title VII of the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act (42 U.S.C. 5201 et seq.) is amended by adding at the end the following:

`SEC. 706. FIREARMS POLICIES.

`(a) Prohibition on Confiscation of Firearms- No officer or employee of the United States (including any member of the uniformed services), person operating pursuant to or under color of Federal law, receiving Federal funds, under the control of any Federal official, or providing services to such an officer, employee, or other person, while acting in support of relief from a major disaster or emergency, may--
`(1) temporarily or permanently seize, or authorize seizure of, any firearm the possession of which is not prohibited under Federal or State law, other than for forfeiture in compliance with Federal law or as evidence in a criminal investigation;
`(2) require the registration of any firearm for which registration is not required by Federal or State law;
`(3) prohibit the possession of any firearm, or promulgate any rule, regulation, or order prohibiting the possession of any firearm, in any place or by any person where such possession is not otherwise prohibited by Federal or State law; or
`(4) prohibit the carrying of a firearm by any person otherwise authorized to carry firearms under Federal or State law, solely because such person is operating under the direction, control, or supervision of a Federal agency in support of relief from a major disaster or emergency.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:S.+2599:


44f, I appreciate your sincerity and it is apparent you are well intentioned. And, thank you for your service to our country.

I'm sorry, but I just don't take much comfort with this federal law. Indeed, I would submit that it falls within the long list of the "laws of unintended consequence." For practical purposes, take paragraph (1) for instance. Who determines if the weapon in my home or on my person is a "firearm the possession of which is not prohibited under Federal or State law, other than for forfeiture in compliance with Federal law . . ."? Most likely, it is a U.S. Army or National Guard captain, lieutenant, sargeant, corporal or a local or state police officer without consultation with a JAG or ADA (and I question if those lawyers would know the answer.) That decision is also going to be made in a stressful situation and be spur of the moment. In other words, a "better to ask forgiveness, than permission" situation. Further, under such circumstances, how hard is it going to be for the military or law enforcement officers to determine or allege that confiscation is necessary for use as as "evidence in a criminal investigation"? All it takes is a simple allegation that I have committed a crime - i.e., brandishing a firearm, threatening, resisting arrest, etc., especially in circumstances of public or civil disorder, natural disaster, emergency, etc. As a result, I will be at the sole mercy of the military and/or civilian bureaucracy and it's "after action review," which is absolutely of no protection to my fundamental rights as an American citizen, i.e., right to life, liberty. Even assuming my weapon is returned to me following the "after action review," in a Katrina or similar emergency, my property will have been stolen or destroyed and my family harmed or killed. I'm sure that one could look at each occurrence of firearms confiscation that occurred during the Katrina episode and find within this federal law a basis to support each confiscation.

This law is also very troubling and disconcerting to me and should be to all of us, for it shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the Second Amendment. The Second Amendment grants me and you no right to keep and bear arms. I repeat, there is no right granted by the Second Amendment to keep and bear arms. No, the right to keep and bear arms is an inalienable right. You and me were born with that right. Depending on your perspective, the right to keep and bear arms is a God-given right or one of natural law (the natural right of self-defense). It is not given to us by the Second Amendment. Rather, the Second Amendment says that our inalienable right to self-defense "shall not be infringed." The Second Amendment protects us.

Given our Second Amendment protection, why is "SEC. 706 FIREARMS POLICIES" needed? It is not. With the conditions and qualifications contained in that law, it is, in my opinion, further dilution of our Second Amendment protections.
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#3146993 - 01/31/13 02:22 PM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: OHVATN]
44fanatic
12 Point


Registered: 01/01/08
Posts: 6126
Loc: Clarksville, Montgomery Cnty

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Great post sds1961...I hear what you are saying and offer no disagreement, nor want to.

Ultimately we have to play with the hand that we are dealt. This law happens to be one of those cards we have been dealt. Fortunately it is written to somewhat preserve what remains of our 2nd Amendment rights. The bad thing is that it pertains to natural disasters.

I do believe that an authoritative presence following a significant event can prevent crime and preserve order following that event. This is certainly not what we want in the long run, but to assist in getting life back to normal as quickly as possible. This can almost be compared to placing a police officer on every corner in a city, crimes on the street would be reduced due to the simple presence (this is not what I want, I would rather have people more respectful of each other). In Iraq in early 2004, there was a brigade size element in Tel Afar, the city was quite. Later in 2004, there was a Battalion size element and the city blew up with insurgents. My assumption is that it was due to a reduce presence of military forces.

As to how does this pertain to why the military should conduct exercises with local, state and federal agencies...To work out the kinks of what should and should not be done, how to handle a situation and to establish channels of communictions with counterparts. The military is pretty good at mission execution. Why is it successful, planning, practicing, practicing some more, going back to the planning board and then practice some more and independent thinking. That independent thinking of the military members is what will keep the military from becoming the tool of an overbearing government. There are many members of the military who believe in the Constitution of the United States (whether they are conservative or liberal is irrelevant) and will stand up for they feel is right and will take action against what they feel is wrong.



Edited by 44fanatic (01/31/13 02:28 PM)
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#3147037 - 01/31/13 03:07 PM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: 44fanatic]
AndyW
10 Point


Registered: 10/21/10
Posts: 4123
Loc: Allardt, TN

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Did it occur to anyone that the military might be training with various civilian agencies in the event there is a foreign attack on American soil with tanks and boots on the ground?

I dont trust the government one bit; but that IS a plausible scenario. Be a shame if the red Chinese showed up and there was no plan in place or clear chains of command.
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#3147076 - 01/31/13 03:45 PM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: AndyW]
OHVATN
4 Point


Registered: 10/09/12
Posts: 332
Loc: Middle TN

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I don't subscribe to any of the "9/11 truthers," "birthers," "Oswald didn't act alone," and now the "Sandy Hook false flag," conspiracy theories. Yet, I do wonder what's the reason for all of these training exercises now?

I do think it is more likely to be to prepare for one or more of the occurrences outlined above by 44fanatic, and I'll add one to the list - the death of money (specifically US$). Nonetheless, here's one to chew on. What if a US president took advantage of a militarized DHS (with its ties into the intel community and state/local law enforcement, which itself has been militarized) and a national emergency to assert dictatorial control? Certainly the start of a good screenplay, but could it happen ......?
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#3147083 - 01/31/13 03:51 PM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: OHVATN]
44fanatic
12 Point


Registered: 01/01/08
Posts: 6126
Loc: Clarksville, Montgomery Cnty

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sds1961, did you ever serve in the military?
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#3147117 - 01/31/13 04:27 PM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: nodog]
Redfred16
8 Point


Registered: 01/22/12
Posts: 1410
Loc: Hartland, WI

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There are really only 2 explinations as to why the US military is training in the civillain world.

1) The buildings are available and they are just using them as a space. Training to clear the same MOUT site over and over doesn't help evetuanlly.

2) They are training to put down civli unrest scenerios.

I pray for #1, but think its most likely them thinking they will be used on a limited scale for #2.
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#3147124 - 01/31/13 04:31 PM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: Redfred16]
FLTENNHUNTER1
16 Point


Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 15532
Loc: Tampa FL

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Our biggest threat facing our country right now is our debt. You want to see a civil war? Hyper-inflate our currency and try to explain to Travon why a loaf of bread is 500 dollars and his welfare check doesn't buy 1 loaf.
_________________________
The Second Amendment - George Washington didn't use free speech to defeat the British, he shot them.
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine





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#3147127 - 01/31/13 04:32 PM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: FLTENNHUNTER1]
FLTENNHUNTER1
16 Point


Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 15532
Loc: Tampa FL

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...and IMO our military should be training for events like this because something wicked this way comes. I have been saying it for 5 years now. John Williams says we will hyper-inflate no later than 2014.
_________________________
The Second Amendment - George Washington didn't use free speech to defeat the British, he shot them.
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine





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#3147128 - 01/31/13 04:32 PM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: FLTENNHUNTER1]
FLTENNHUNTER1
16 Point


Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 15532
Loc: Tampa FL

Offline
Got gold?
_________________________
The Second Amendment - George Washington didn't use free speech to defeat the British, he shot them.
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine





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#3147188 - 01/31/13 05:34 PM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: 44fanatic]
OHVATN
4 Point


Registered: 10/09/12
Posts: 332
Loc: Middle TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: 44fanatic
sds1961, did you ever serve in the military?


No I did not.
_________________________
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#3147207 - 01/31/13 05:56 PM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: OHVATN]
44fanatic
12 Point


Registered: 01/01/08
Posts: 6126
Loc: Clarksville, Montgomery Cnty

Offline
 Originally Posted By: sds1961
 Originally Posted By: 44fanatic
sds1961, did you ever serve in the military?


No I did not.


Dang, the point I wanted to make is that you would have found like minded individuals serving next to you...and that is why the military cannot be used as a tool to achieve a personal agenda.
_________________________
Bill

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#3147254 - 01/31/13 06:30 PM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: OHVATN]
Bambi Buster
14 Point


Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 7522
Loc: Middle Tennessee

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 Originally Posted By: sds1961
I don't subscribe to any of the "9/11 truthers," "birthers," "Oswald didn't act alone," and now the "Sandy Hook false flag," conspiracy theories...


Agree with your points, but hope you won't mind my doing a slight hijack of your post to coin a term here:

"Sandy Hook false flag" conspiracy theorists = "hookers"
_________________________
"The American military is like a finely crafted sword. To be effective, it must be wielded by a discerning, skilled and merciless hand."

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#3147323 - 01/31/13 07:12 PM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: Bambi Buster]
FLTENNHUNTER1
16 Point


Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 15532
Loc: Tampa FL

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 Originally Posted By: Bambi Buster
 Originally Posted By: sds1961
I don't subscribe to any of the "9/11 truthers," "birthers," "Oswald didn't act alone," and now the "Sandy Hook false flag," conspiracy theories...


Agree with your points, but hope you won't mind my doing a slight hijack of your post to coin a term here:

"Sandy Hook false flag" conspiracy theorists = "hookers"


\:D
_________________________
The Second Amendment - George Washington didn't use free speech to defeat the British, he shot them.
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine





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#3147349 - 01/31/13 07:38 PM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: FLTENNHUNTER1]
Stalkhunter
10 Point


Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 3846
Loc: Knoxville TN

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I guess all that believe the Gov = GAY
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#3147458 - 01/31/13 09:04 PM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: Stalkhunter]
in the dog house!
14 Point


Registered: 11/29/12
Posts: 7934
Loc: west tn

content Online
 Originally Posted By: Stalkhunter
I guess all that believe the Gov = GAY



\:D \:D \:D \:D now that was funny, I dont care who you are!!!
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Luck is where preparation and opportunity meet



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#3147884 - 02/01/13 08:01 AM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: in the dog house!]
Unicam Administrator
Grumpaw
16 Point


Registered: 12/13/00
Posts: 18932
Loc: Dallas, GA. & Cookeville, TN

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OK, I will jump in, my background, four tours of Combat duty, several weedeater or drug interdiction ops in South, Central and North America over 3 1/2 years on Navy ships forward deployed, 7 tours overseas and 20 years as a Marine. The training with local law enforcement and Urban enviornments has been going on since before I joined the Marine Corps in 1982. We trainied and worked closely with LEA while doing urban combat training. I remember being in Frisco and breaking windows out of some sky scrappers with the pop of our blades from the CH-53E's booming through the city proper, of working with LEO/LEA in GA while doing Urban Combat drills in downtown Atlanta or maybe working with LEO, DEA, INS and JTF6 in Arizona and Kentucky on more than one occasion. Its normal, it happens every year somewhere in the United States, actually every 6 months or so. Work ups for going into harms way. You cannot simulate a civilian population in a "combat town" out in the middle of nowhere! Its not been as prevelant since 2003 as we began sending our young war fighters in green to learn while on the job from warfighters who allready have boots on the ground, but it still goes on. Its just done more close to the bases in most cases now. I still work with the Military every day, I have two more trips overseas as a contractor, close enough to be mortared, take direct and indirect fire and work shoulder to shoulder with men and women I could not be prouder of. If there was some sort of training going on as some speak of, I promise you I would know of it! The type of training the Military is doeing has been going on for almost as long as the Military has been around. I also did alot of training with Fire and Rescue services in California when I was with SAR, we must have been teaching them how to kidnap people and snatch bodies away when we were teaching them how to properly deploy stokes liters and do hoist rescues in mountainous terrain. Having typed all this out, I will say this about the news reported these days. Believe nothing you read and only half of what you see!!!
_________________________
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John 15:13

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#3147922 - 02/01/13 08:29 AM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: Unicam]
Unicam Administrator
Grumpaw
16 Point


Registered: 12/13/00
Posts: 18932
Loc: Dallas, GA. & Cookeville, TN

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How about a little more beleivable conspiracy idea... dont worry about Military or Law Enforcement... worry about the blue hats....
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"Gun Free Zones are for VICTIMS!"

John 15:13

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#3147992 - 02/01/13 09:13 AM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: Unicam]
Stalkhunter
10 Point


Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 3846
Loc: Knoxville TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Unicam
OK, I will jump in, my background, four tours of Combat duty, several weedeater or drug interdiction ops in South, Central and North America over 3 1/2 years on Navy ships forward deployed, 7 tours overseas and 20 years as a Marine. The training with local law enforcement and Urban enviornments has been going on since before I joined the Marine Corps in 1982. We trainied and worked closely with LEA while doing urban combat training. I remember being in Frisco and breaking windows out of some sky scrappers with the pop of our blades from the CH-53E's booming through the city proper, of working with LEO/LEA in GA while doing Urban Combat drills in downtown Atlanta or maybe working with LEO, DEA, INS and JTF6 in Arizona and Kentucky on more than one occasion. Its normal, it happens every year somewhere in the United States, actually every 6 months or so. Work ups for going into harms way. You cannot simulate a civilian population in a "combat town" out in the middle of nowhere! Its not been as prevelant since 2003 as we began sending our young war fighters in green to learn while on the job from warfighters who allready have boots on the ground, but it still goes on. Its just done more close to the bases in most cases now. I still work with the Military every day, I have two more trips overseas as a contractor, close enough to be mortared, take direct and indirect fire and work shoulder to shoulder with men and women I could not be prouder of. If there was some sort of training going on as some speak of, I promise you I would know of it! The type of training the Military is doeing has been going on for almost as long as the Military has been around. I also did alot of training with Fire and Rescue services in California when I was with SAR, we must have been teaching them how to kidnap people and snatch bodies away when we were teaching them how to properly deploy stokes liters and do hoist rescues in mountainous terrain. Having typed all this out, I will say this about the news reported these days. Believe nothing you read and only half of what you see!!!


so very true. but as you stated Believe nothing you read and only half of what you see!!!

For others are trained much different then whole of the sum. The non names, The we dont take responsibility if you are caught. (people only think thats in books and movies)

So no matter the amount of time anyone was in they do not tell you everything. I wen int same time as you I spent my Tours in Cal, and Lejeune at least i was based there but mainly over Sea's. I crossed deck a time or two or(loved Rota) . I trained with some individuals in Diego Garcia that i would not want to run up against. I spent most of my time rotten hell holes.

The gov is very pleased because you lined out exactly what they wanted you too. But rest assured your not told everything.I wont make people think we are told all and paint a pretty picture.

I am not sure what type of contractor you are with the gov, but there are many types of contractors(operators) as well. I was approached when i first got out. I turned it down. I know i made the right choice.

Thank you for your service, we differ on opinions, thats all. We have the brotherhood that keeps all Marines bonded, that wont change.

Lets not lie to them. Some of my last training while in, was exactly for whats going on today. I did this in Small towns not in the lime light of the media and done at night. Mission Scope impose Martial in event of gun confiscation and to stop riots due to economic collapse. Now i believe this goes on all the time. How do I know I, issued the order, gave frag orders, issued take down order,9 line briefs, issued map over lays with on call targets. penetration point. Instructions on handeling detainies, issue oders for use of deadly force in pertaining to civilians, Gave debriefs. So i too may know a thing or two.

So if I was doing this in 90's, your saying its only for over sea's in real world situations today?


Edited by Stalkhunter (02/01/13 09:15 AM)
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#3147995 - 02/01/13 09:16 AM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: Stalkhunter]
Stalkhunter
10 Point


Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 3846
Loc: Knoxville TN

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done posting
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#3148022 - 02/01/13 09:35 AM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: Stalkhunter]
Redfred16
8 Point


Registered: 01/22/12
Posts: 1410
Loc: Hartland, WI

Offline
I do find it funny, that I spent time in the late '90's at Ft Hood training DEA, ATF, and some local SWAT teams urban warfare.

Ft Hood has an incredible MOUT site, so does CMTC in Germany. But even with all that we would sometimes use empty building on base to condudt raids and such. Simply so we could be tossed into a new space.

I honestly don't beleive the soldiers are being given a training OPORD that is the same as a possible mission our civilian government would want to use them for, should the need arise.
_________________________
Packer Fan back in Packer Country

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Airborne and Air Assault Blood Wings Worn Here

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#3148212 - 02/01/13 12:13 PM Re: Military Drills Resume Preparation for MAT.LAW [Re: Unicam]
Bambi Buster
14 Point


Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 7522
Loc: Middle Tennessee

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Unicam
OK, I will jump in, my background, four tours of Combat duty, several weedeater or drug interdiction ops in South, Central and North America over 3 1/2 years on Navy ships forward deployed, 7 tours overseas and 20 years as a Marine. The training with local law enforcement and Urban enviornments has been going on since before I joined the Marine Corps in 1982. We trainied and worked closely with LEA while doing urban combat training. I remember being in Frisco and breaking windows out of some sky scrappers with the pop of our blades from the CH-53E's booming through the city proper, of working with LEO/LEA in GA while doing Urban Combat drills in downtown Atlanta or maybe working with LEO, DEA, INS and JTF6 in Arizona and Kentucky on more than one occasion. Its normal, it happens every year somewhere in the United States, actually every 6 months or so. Work ups for going into harms way. You cannot simulate a civilian population in a "combat town" out in the middle of nowhere! Its not been as prevelant since 2003 as we began sending our young war fighters in green to learn while on the job from warfighters who allready have boots on the ground, but it still goes on. Its just done more close to the bases in most cases now. I still work with the Military every day, I have two more trips overseas as a contractor, close enough to be mortared, take direct and indirect fire and work shoulder to shoulder with men and women I could not be prouder of. If there was some sort of training going on as some speak of, I promise you I would know of it! The type of training the Military is doeing has been going on for almost as long as the Military has been around. I also did alot of training with Fire and Rescue services in California when I was with SAR, we must have been teaching them how to kidnap people and snatch bodies away when we were teaching them how to properly deploy stokes liters and do hoist rescues in mountainous terrain. Having typed all this out, I will say this about the news reported these days. Believe nothing you read and only half of what you see!!!


Minus the four tours of combat duty, my 24 years in harness paralleled yours in several regards; my paycheck just came from DOJ instead of DOD. Thanks for the lucid and rational synopsis here, with which I heartily concur and can attest to as well. Thanks also for all the years given to country and Corps.
_________________________
"The American military is like a finely crafted sword. To be effective, it must be wielded by a discerning, skilled and merciless hand."

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