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#3136676 - 01/23/13 09:53 PM women in the infantry
DirtyBear0311
8 Point


Registered: 09/01/12
Posts: 1683
Loc: Milan, TN

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This is coming from a combat vet who spent four years in the Marine Corps infantry and IS NOT A SEXIST!!! Letting women into the infantry is an absolutely horrible idea. There are a number of physical, philosophical, and tactical reasons why it is a bad idea. Because of this, if women serve alongside men in combat, people will die unnecessarily. I get the feeling that this is less of a military decision and more of a liberal appeasement decision where everyone and everything must be equal despite the world not working like that.
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Just because it's bad-a** don't mean it's a good idea.


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#3136693 - 01/23/13 10:07 PM Re: women in the infantry [Re: DirtyBear0311]
Bambi Buster
14 Point


Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 8784
Loc: Middle Tennessee

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 Originally Posted By: DirtyBear0311
This is coming from a combat vet who spent four years in the Marine Corps infantry and IS NOT A SEXIST!!! Letting women into the infantry is an absolutely horrible idea. There are a number of physical, philosophical, and tactical reasons why it is a bad idea. Because of this, if women serve alongside men in combat, people will die unnecessarily. I get the feeling that this is less of a military decision and more of a liberal appeasement decision where everyone and everything must be equal despite the world not working like that.


I think you're on to something here. The emasculation of the U.S. military and the nation they defend is happening before our eyes faster than most would have thought possible. Meanwhile, our enemies watch in disbelief and utter delight that their time of triumph is coming even sooner than they had thought.
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#3136721 - 01/23/13 10:41 PM Re: women in the infantry [Re: Bambi Buster]
rdl65
8 Point


Registered: 03/08/08
Posts: 2496
Loc: Washington County

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Other than trying to keep queers happy, it's the worst mistake the military ever made.
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#3136724 - 01/23/13 10:47 PM Re: women in the infantry [Re: DirtyBear0311]
AndyW
10 Point


Registered: 10/21/10
Posts: 4443
Loc: Allardt, TN

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 Originally Posted By: DirtyBear0311
This is coming from a combat vet who spent four years in the Marine Corps infantry and IS NOT A SEXIST!!! Letting women into the infantry is an absolutely horrible idea. There are a number of physical, philosophical, and tactical reasons why it is a bad idea. Because of this, if women serve alongside men in combat, people will die unnecessarily. I get the feeling that this is less of a military decision and more of a liberal appeasement decision where everyone and everything must be equal despite the world not working like that.


Agreed 100%. Combat is man's work.

Semper Fidelis and thank you for serving.
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This fall, FIRE THEM ALL. Re-elect NO ONE!!!!!

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#3136756 - 01/24/13 12:21 AM Re: women in the infantry [Re: AndyW]
Bambi Buster
14 Point


Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 8784
Loc: Middle Tennessee

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Further input by another who's been there/done that.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424...ections_opinion
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"The American military is like a finely crafted sword. To be effective, it must be wielded by a discerning, skilled and merciless hand."

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#3136979 - 01/24/13 08:14 AM Re: women in the infantry [Re: Bambi Buster]
ROUGH COUNTRY HUNTER
16 Point


Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 12540
Loc: FRANKLIN COUNTY

Offline
leave it to the men
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#3137008 - 01/24/13 08:38 AM Re: women in the infantry [Re: ROUGH COUNTRY HUNTER]
44fanatic
12 Point


Registered: 01/01/08
Posts: 6126
Loc: Clarksville, Montgomery Cnty

Offline
Posted this in the political forum...

 Originally Posted By: 44fanatic
Good points below...Most women can't. Their body is smaller and is designed differently. The female heart is 25% smaller and their bones are not as heavy or sturdy. Load up a woman with 40lbs of body armor and 50lbs of patrol equipment and have her move for a month with an infantry unit, most will soon have stress fractures and hip problems. The stress fractures (lower leg) will be a result of the additional weight and the hip problems will be a result of the lengthed stride to keep up. As a former Army Drill Sergeant in AIT and Master Fitness Trainer, I saw more shin and hip problems from the females than I ever did from the males coming out of basic training. When males had the stress fractures, they were usually the result of poor shoe selection. These injuries took months to heal. As for the written tests, those will not change in the military.

What I do not want to see is a lowering of the physical standards for women in combat MOS's. Increase the female physical fitness standards to that of a male, not lower the male standards. If she cant stay up with the infantry squad during normal training, then reclass her to a support MOS, not move her to the company orderly room (EO suit waiting to happen).


 Originally Posted By: Redfred16
Here's the problem with it. It's not if women can or can't for the most part. It's an added burden to an already stressed combat leader. Now on top of worrying about training, logisitcs, missions, ect. He has to worry if PFC Jones is dating SPC Smith. Or if SGT White and SGT Black are dropping the soap for each other. Then god forbid there should be in combat with girlfriends and boyfriends, husbands and wives, boyfriends and boyfriends, girlfriends and girlfriends all fighting beside each other and someone gets killed. You've not effectively taken 2 out of action with 1 casualty. And yes, despite what rules end up in place, this will happen. Even the rules they put to "ensure" this doesn't happen will be altered by some court because it is "unfair" to them. This all creates more stress for the soldiers and the leaders, of course the politicans don't care about the guys in the field, just as long as they can rack up political points.

Then we will end up with women claiming discrimination because not enough of them are in combat arms, so they will have to lower the physical standards. Just like we've seen with affirmative action and thier wrriten tests.

This is the left's way of destroying the military.
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#3137029 - 01/24/13 08:59 AM Re: women in the infantry [Re: 44fanatic]
Pic IN the Casa
TurdFarmer2.0
14 Point


Registered: 03/18/11
Posts: 9729
Loc: TN

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They should have to sign up for the draft too.
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Tolerance now means OBEY!!!!


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#3137034 - 01/24/13 09:01 AM Re: women in the infantry [Re: 44fanatic]
wskp11
6 Point


Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 591
Loc: mid Tn

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I got a call from one of my boys in the Marines last night and he was on a rant about this. He said everyone's feeling is that they'll drop the physically requirements so the females can pass the same ones as the males. Remember the aroma of a team without a shower for a couple weeks then throw a female in that mix yuc.
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#3137042 - 01/24/13 09:04 AM Re: women in the infantry [Re: wskp11]
Pic IN the Casa
TurdFarmer2.0
14 Point


Registered: 03/18/11
Posts: 9729
Loc: TN

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Just like they did to get women into the fire halls.
_________________________
Tolerance now means OBEY!!!!


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#3137062 - 01/24/13 09:16 AM Re: women in the infantry [Re: Pic IN the Casa]
waynesworld
8 Point


Registered: 05/13/12
Posts: 1482
Loc: Mboro, Tennessee

Offline
Come on did you all not see GI Jane? As soon as you opened the door to open gay's in you might as well keep the door open. And now i would love to see them all open take out the separated bathrooms, showers, living qtrs. If they are equal they are equal one standard for all. No difference in PT, uniform, measuring BF. All I can say is I am glad I am out now and on my downward slide out of this world \:\)
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#3137063 - 01/24/13 09:20 AM Re: women in the infantry [Re: Pic IN the Casa]
Outdoor Lady
16 Point


Registered: 11/21/06
Posts: 14487
Loc: Maynardville, Tn

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Ok - I am a woman and I promise you men - I can do anything you all can do - BUT... I may have to do it slower, I may have to do it with help if it is too heavy and I may even have to think smarter to get it done.

I promise you I can shoot just as good, if not better than most men. I also promise you that I can learn and be taught anything (I may not be good at everything, but neither is a man)

Now with that being said - all those things take more time than a man just man handling the situation - with that being said - I DONT need to be in the combat zone to slow down my team when it comes time to move ahead.

Women's make up is different than a mans - We women tend to go with gut or feelings when faced with something and at times on the front line that cant be in place!

I am not taking nothing away from me or any other woman - I am just saying some places (even though we can do it - we dont need to be)
_________________________
A Well Behaved Woman Rarely Makes History

"Outdoor Lady"

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#3137070 - 01/24/13 09:22 AM Re: women in the infantry [Re: Outdoor Lady]
44fanatic
12 Point


Registered: 01/01/08
Posts: 6126
Loc: Clarksville, Montgomery Cnty

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 Originally Posted By: Outdoor Lady
Ok - I am a woman and I promise you men - I can do anything you all can do - BUT... I may have to do it slower, I may have to do it with help if it is too heavy and I may even have to think smarter to get it done.

I promise you I can shoot just as good, if not better than most men. I also promise you that I can learn and be taught anything (I may not be good at everything, but neither is a man)

Now with that being said - all those things take more time than a man just man handling the situation - with that being said - I DONT need to be in the combat zone to slow down my team when it comes time to move ahead.

Women's make up is different than a mans - We women tend to go with gut or feelings when faced with something and at times on the front line that cant be in place!

I am not taking nothing away from me or any other woman - I am just saying some places (even though we can do it - we dont need to be)


Thank you for your post
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Bill

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#3137077 - 01/24/13 09:26 AM Re: women in the infantry [Re: 44fanatic]
in the dog house!
14 Point


Registered: 11/29/12
Posts: 9802
Loc: west tn

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Yes, thank you. Great post, why the higher up can't see this is beyond me... o wait a min....... it make total sense.......
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#3137098 - 01/24/13 09:35 AM Re: women in the infantry [Re: 44fanatic]
Phil1979
12 Point


Registered: 11/05/11
Posts: 5433
Loc: Arlington, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Outdoor Lady
Ok - I am a woman and I promise you men - I can do anything you all can do - BUT... I may have to do it slower, I may have to do it with help if it is too heavy and I may even have to think smarter to get it done.

I promise you I can shoot just as good, if not better than most men. I also promise you that I can learn and be taught anything (I may not be good at everything, but neither is a man)

Now with that being said - all those things take more time than a man just man handling the situation - with that being said - I DONT need to be in the combat zone to slow down my team when it comes time to move ahead.

Women's make up is different than a mans - We women tend to go with gut or feelings when faced with something and at times on the front line that cant be in place!

I am not taking nothing away from me or any other woman - I am just saying some places (even though we can do it - we dont need to be)
 Originally Posted By: 44fanatic
 Originally Posted By: Outdoor Lady
Ok - I am a woman and I promise you men - I can do anything you all can do - BUT... I may have to do it slower, I may have to do it with help if it is too heavy and I may even have to think smarter to get it done.

I promise you I can shoot just as good, if not better than most men. I also promise you that I can learn and be taught anything (I may not be good at everything, but neither is a man)

Now with that being said - all those things take more time than a man just man handling the situation - with that being said - I DONT need to be in the combat zone to slow down my team when it comes time to move ahead.

Women's make up is different than a mans - We women tend to go with gut or feelings when faced with something and at times on the front line that cant be in place!

I am not taking nothing away from me or any other woman - I am just saying some places (even though we can do it - we dont need to be)


Thank you for your post


X2

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#3137204 - 01/24/13 10:30 AM Re: women in the infantry [Re: Phil1979]
ferg
Cancer Free
16 Point


Registered: 07/29/04
Posts: 16011
Loc: At the TNDeer shirt factory %^...

Offline
Good post OL - spot on -
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USCG(Ret)
Semper Par !




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#3137246 - 01/24/13 11:00 AM Re: women in the infantry [Re: ferg]
Wildcat
Non-Typical


Registered: 06/10/00
Posts: 42400
Loc: Western Ky.

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Looks like Washington is ready to see the bodybags coming back home will have 50% women so we should be ready to see those numbers from now on.

The Russians used women in front line combat units in WWII and some of the best snippers were women with some unbeliveable scores. But once captured the women were put though some unthinkable things before being killed. But before you think the Russians were right the Russians also send in mass waves of troops into machinegun fire with only half of the troops having a rifle. Also when parachutes were in short supply they had soliders jump out of thr planes WITHOUT a parachute to land in the snowbanks, their reasoning was that enough of them would live though it to make an attack on the Gremans.
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#3137256 - 01/24/13 11:08 AM Re: women in the infantry [Re: rdl65]
Deer Assassin
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/01/03
Posts: 87638
Loc: Kingston Springs

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 Originally Posted By: rdl65
Other than trying to keep queers happy, it's the worst mistake the military ever made.
ditto


women have no place on the battlefield
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Drag Racing

Spending money I dont have

on things I dont need

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#3137283 - 01/24/13 11:22 AM Re: women in the infantry [Re: Deer Assassin]
BlackBelt
10 Point


Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 3251
Loc: SouthWest TN

Offline
These are issues that will work themselves out fairly quickly on the battlefield and "adjustments" will be made either formally or informally to handle it.
Its amazing the transformation our country is going through, isnt it?

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#3137393 - 01/24/13 12:13 PM Re: women in the infantry [Re: BlackBelt]
REM7
10 Point


Registered: 08/19/08
Posts: 3751
Loc: GRUNDY COUNTY

Offline
OL said it all and from a womans perspective. If a woman wants to to do her patriotic duty, then do it somewhere other than the front lines of combat. I can see now why North Korea admitted they would test nukes toward the USA. They see our country and military being weakend by an IDIOT!
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#3137411 - 01/24/13 12:19 PM Re: women in the infantry [Re: REM7]
preds1
12 Point


Registered: 10/16/09
Posts: 6478
Loc: Sumner County

Offline
Really appreciate your thoughts on it OL.
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#3137428 - 01/24/13 12:28 PM Re: women in the infantry [Re: preds1]
GRAMPS
14 Point


Registered: 09/12/03
Posts: 8600
Loc: Mount Carmel, TN

Offline
I have heard that women are much more aggressive than men and after being married for thirty-five years, I have to agree with that.
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The older we get....the better we was.

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#3137496 - 01/24/13 01:07 PM Re: women in the infantry [Re: GRAMPS]
Vermin93
12 Point


Registered: 12/11/10
Posts: 6037
Loc: Dallas, TX & Signal Mtn, TN

shocked Online
Well this is just great. Now they will have to send condoms to the front lines and forward operating bases, which means less room for ammo on the supply trucks and helos. Brilliant!
_________________________
"Florida State blew the coverage and they got rewarded for it.” Coach Brian Kelly

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#3137512 - 01/24/13 01:17 PM Re: women in the infantry [Re: Vermin93]
recurve60#
4 Point


Registered: 10/22/08
Posts: 399
Loc: Rock Island

Offline
One woman...one man in hand to hand combat....I can tell you who wins EVERY SINGLE TIME.

nough said.
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#3137569 - 01/24/13 01:55 PM Re: women in the infantry [Re: recurve60#]
tn droptine
8 Point


Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 1311
Loc: Chester Co, TN/Afghanistan

Offline
Yes, there are women that COULD hack it in the combat units - I know, there is one over here in Afghanistan with me now that puts nearly all of her male counterparts in the unit to shame.

However, being a prior grunt myself - I feel that the infantry and other combat positions should not be opened to females. Sure, there are some who could handle the physical part of the job - but can they handle the stress and emotional toll that it takes as well? I do not think so.

Furthermore, it is a man's natural instinct to be protective of a female in danger. What happens when she is pulling tower guard duty and freaks out? The guy in the tower is likely to abandon his post to help her out - thereby opening up his position to assault.

Horrible idea if you ask me!

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#3137587 - 01/24/13 02:06 PM Re: women in the infantry [Re: recurve60#]
Bone Collector
14 Point


Registered: 09/09/09
Posts: 9215
Loc: Murfreesboro, TN

Offline
Aside from possible dating/marriage, there is also the dark side that no one wants to mention. [b]This actually came up when they looked at the possibility of doing this in the 90's when Slick Willy was in. He let gays in so they thought why not consider women in the Infantry.

Some General I can't remember who gave a scenario. He said, lets say you have a woman or two in a platoon and the platoon is in a hostile environment. They are killing people daily and it is stressful. We'd all like to think that our boys would not do a thing like this, but what if they decided the women needed to "boost" platoon morale. Now lets say they say no and the guys whether it is just a few or not decide well you're going too.

This is a nightmare waiting to happen. Sure there may be court marshals afterwards, but it's too late then, it has happened already, you can't erase it.

In addition, others have already said it to some extent, but even if you lowered the physical requirements, there is no way they can lower the weight of body armor, ammo, weapons, and essential gear necessary for combat. They will have to "hump" it and they will have to keep up. If the unit has to constantly slow down to wait they are a detriment to the unit.


Edited by Bone Collector (01/24/13 02:07 PM)
_________________________
Semper Fidelis!

“There are hunters and there are victims. By your discipline, cunning, obedience and alertness, you will decide if you are a hunter or a victim.”
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#3137597 - 01/24/13 02:20 PM Re: women in the infantry [Re: Vermin93]
TAFKAP
14 Point


Registered: 11/06/09
Posts: 9656
Loc: Memphis

content Online
 Originally Posted By: Vermin93
Well this is just great. Now they will have to send condoms to the front lines and forward operating bases, which means less room for ammo on the supply trucks and helos. Brilliant!


And tampons
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Everything important in life was learned from Mary Jo Kopechne.

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#3137642 - 01/24/13 02:39 PM Re: women in the infantry [Re: TAFKAP]
Unicam Administrator
Grumpaw
16 Point


Registered: 12/13/00
Posts: 19421
Loc: Dallas, GA. & Cookeville, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: TAFKAP
 Originally Posted By: Vermin93
Well this is just great. Now they will have to send condoms to the front lines and forward operating bases, which means less room for ammo on the supply trucks and helos. Brilliant!


And tampons


More tampons...they are already there and work grat on the front lines as bullet hole plugs.
_________________________
"Gun Free Zones are for VICTIMS!"

John 15:13

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#3138092 - 01/24/13 08:44 PM Re: women in the infantry [Re: Unicam]
74MOPAR
6 Point


Registered: 12/08/12
Posts: 608
Loc: sumner co

Offline
Not a good idea,ever
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#3138243 - 01/24/13 11:07 PM Re: women in the infantry [Re: 74MOPAR]
DirtyBear0311
8 Point


Registered: 09/01/12
Posts: 1683
Loc: Milan, TN

Offline
Another thing to think about is the civilians reactions on the home front to the increased number of dead females. The US as a whole is already afraid of high casualties and Al-Qaeda has specifically said that if they can cause enough casualties then America would pull out. The thing is, they are right. America cant stomach high casualties, even if they are nessicary (that term is debatable based upon the fight). What do you think America will do once large numbers of their women are being killed? The same liberals who screamed for equality will be screaming for the US to pull out so that no more women will be killed.
_________________________
Semper Fi

Just because it's bad-a** don't mean it's a good idea.


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#3138308 - 01/25/13 05:41 AM Re: women in the infantry [Re: DirtyBear0311]
BlackBelt
10 Point


Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 3251
Loc: SouthWest TN

Offline
Dont forget that majority of voting people have voted the decision makers they wanted into office. This is just another of the decisions that the majority wanted.

Elections have consequences...

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#3138354 - 01/25/13 06:47 AM Re: women in the infantry [Re: rdl65]
nodog
4 Point


Registered: 08/12/12
Posts: 297
Loc: Ohio

Offline
 Originally Posted By: rdl65
Other than trying to keep queers happy, it's the worst mistake the military ever made.


Your very close to the reason.
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#3138391 - 01/25/13 07:25 AM Re: women in the infantry [Re: BlackBelt]
nodog
4 Point


Registered: 08/12/12
Posts: 297
Loc: Ohio

Offline
 Originally Posted By: BlackBelt
Dont forget that majority of voting people have voted the decision makers they wanted into office. This is just another of the decisions that the majority wanted.

Elections have consequences...


Sure they do, it decides which flavor of koolaid people get to drink. What the real consequence is the authority we give away to government 24/7/365. Every day we vote and based on the size and reach of government and the fact that it only gets empowered when we infringe on the freedoms of others for our own gain, we vote wrong about every minute of everyday.

Imagine your free to drive your car without any infringement/government intervention. All you have to do is be concerned for others on the road, not demand you are free to drive like a maniac, drunk. How does government enter into the picture and infringe on freedom? That is exactly the cause and effect of every infringement government has over the people. We The People empower government and we only pick the flavor of the infringement at the booth. Something else people can't seem to quit get, government is and is supposed to be grossly inefficient and abusive of power, that fact of life is supposed to be evident to everyone and supposed to keep people from empowering it. How can we then live when we don't know government is supposed to be the opposite of freedom and freedom is lost when we infringe on the freedoms of others for personal gain?

This combat issue is about advancement, why? Is what a woman has to live with any less than a man? I think a man giving up his life for his country is an enormous sacrifice, but I think what the women left behind have to live with is an even greater sacrifice. They have earned the highest honors in my book. Seems to me an infringement on freedom at the expense of another is the reason woman now are having to suffer with the horrors of war on both ends, risking life and losing a loved one. Let woman advance based on their own sacrifices and the combat issue is over, but remember, military is government and is supposed to be what it is supposed to be. Do I have to tell you of the waste in the military, the abuse of power, the inefficiency?
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#3138820 - 01/25/13 11:28 AM Re: women in the infantry [Re: nodog]
DirtyBear0311
8 Point


Registered: 09/01/12
Posts: 1683
Loc: Milan, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: nodog
 Originally Posted By: BlackBelt
Dont forget that majority of voting people have voted the decision makers they wanted into office. This is just another of the decisions that the majority wanted.

Elections have consequences...


Sure they do, it decides which flavor of koolaid people get to drink. What the real consequence is the authority we give away to government 24/7/365. Every day we vote and based on the size and reach of government and the fact that it only gets empowered when we infringe on the freedoms of others for our own gain, we vote wrong about every minute of everyday.

Imagine your free to drive your car without any infringement/government intervention. All you have to do is be concerned for others on the road, not demand you are free to drive like a maniac, drunk. How does government enter into the picture and infringe on freedom? That is exactly the cause and effect of every infringement government has over the people. We The People empower government and we only pick the flavor of the infringement at the booth. Something else people can't seem to quit get, government is and is supposed to be grossly inefficient and abusive of power, that fact of life is supposed to be evident to everyone and supposed to keep people from empowering it. How can we then live when we don't know government is supposed to be the opposite of freedom and freedom is lost when we infringe on the freedoms of others for personal gain?

This combat issue is about advancement, why? Is what a woman has to live with any less than a man? I think a man giving up his life for his country is an enormous sacrifice, but I think what the women left behind have to live with is an even greater sacrifice. They have earned the highest honors in my book. Seems to me an infringement on freedom at the expense of another is the reason woman now are having to suffer with the horrors of war on both ends, risking life and losing a loved one. Let woman advance based on their own sacrifices and the combat issue is over, but remember, military is government and is supposed to be what it is supposed to be. Do I have to tell you of the waste in the military, the abuse of power, the inefficiency?



This sounds dangerously close to an anarchists point of view. I think you're very wrong about the role of traditional government in our lives. I also think that women do not hold a monopoly on pain and sorrow while their loved ones are being hurt and killed. I also dont think that the military wife has it worse than the member themselves. I can say this because of talks with my wife about my deployment as well as talks with other military wives about the time while their husbands or boyfriends are deployed. And I can say that there is not many more worse feelings than watching your best friend disappear into a cloud of black smoke with a hint of pink in it and then emerge as something other than what he was when he went into it. Trust me, I have a few friends who experienced that and their sorrow is beyond measure.
_________________________
Semper Fi

Just because it's bad-a** don't mean it's a good idea.


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