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#3125509 - 01/15/13 06:53 PM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: AT Hiker]
Zac
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Registered: 01/03/13
Posts: 20
Loc: NW Tenn.

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I don't like deductions because when I was 7 (now 15) I killed a 145" 8 point but it was almost perfectly symmetrical and this year I killed a non-typical 12 point that scored 165" before reductions but after reductions it scored 140" and it looks twice as big as the 8 point.
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#3125520 - 01/15/13 07:01 PM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: Zac]
AT Hiker
6 Point


Registered: 07/03/11
Posts: 793
Loc: Clarksville, Tennessee

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 Originally Posted By: Zac
I don't like deductions because when I was 7 (now 15) I killed a 145" 8 point but it was almost perfectly symmetrical and this year I killed a non-typical 12 point that scored 165" before reductions but after reductions it scored 140" and it looks twice as big as the 8 point.


Well buddy...all I can say is you have had some excellent luck. I would care less what my deer scored at the age of 15 (let alone 7yrs old). Wish you many more years of excellent hunting!
_________________________
Longbeards Inc.



In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks.
-John Muir




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#3125621 - 01/15/13 07:45 PM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: AT Hiker]
fairchaser
8 Point


Registered: 09/13/11
Posts: 1130
Loc: TN, USA

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The B&C system rewards symmetry for typical racks as a way of limiting what they consider an exceptional buck, otherwise the minimum score would be much higher. The system is not perfect which is the reason why SCI and Buckmasters have their own systems. Humans have always appreciated things that are symmetrical. A symmetrical rack looks better than a unbalanced rack of the same size. Using a new and improved way to measure now would dq all the record books and IMO would not be better just different. Gross score plus abnormal points and net score are both important for different reasons.
_________________________
"I always wanted to do something that was unequivocal" Charles Morris played by Anthony Hopkins in the movie the Edge.

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#3126187 - 01/16/13 08:10 AM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: Andy S.]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 64229
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Andy S.
 Originally Posted By: BSK
But all that tells you is the volume of bone material.
...but 12" tines with exceptional mass is so much more impressive in my eyes, yet the B&C system does not distinguish the three, nor reward the latter.


That is absolutely true.


 Quote:
Basically, gross score does not always accurately represent the overall rack to me.


Without question, the B&C gross scoring system has it's failings, but so far, i haven't been able to find a better system. The volumetric measuring system sounds good, until you try it. I've seen volumetric measurements for several different antler sets, and I think you would be disappointed. It does give amazing credit for mass, but that's about all it rewards. I've seen short, stubby antlers, that are not at all visually impressive, but with lots of mass, outscore some seriously visully impressive antlers that don't have much mass. In essence, from what I've seen, the volumetric measurement is only about mass and doesn't reward long tines or long beams, or wide spread, the things that, to me, make a rack impressive.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3126201 - 01/16/13 08:22 AM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: Andy S.]
Bayou Buck
10 Point


Registered: 05/11/09
Posts: 2684
Loc: Spring Hill / Perry Co

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[quote=Andy S 12" tines with exceptional mass is so much more impressive [/quote]

I agree Andy!

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#3126202 - 01/16/13 08:23 AM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: Bayou Buck]
woodsman87
8 Point


Registered: 09/27/12
Posts: 1109
Loc: south TN

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I just like killin big deer
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#3126257 - 01/16/13 09:05 AM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: woodsman87]
Zac
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Registered: 01/03/13
Posts: 20
Loc: NW Tenn.

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I agree with woodsman haha
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#3126280 - 01/16/13 09:25 AM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: Zac]
102
10 Point


Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 4018
Loc: Tennessee

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I agree BSK, but then, we have discussed this before.

I had been hunting for almost 30 years before I let fiesty red heads husband Ben Layton score a couple of my deer. I was motivated to do so by a buck I had killed the previous Fall. Ben suggested I bring along my next biggest buck for scoring as well.

"Shock and awe" were all I could say on the ride back home. In essence I learned that symmetry, or lack thereof, could have very negative affects on final Net score. In fact, any and all "character" points, while visually impressive, were nothing short of deductions in the final tally.

I realized that while very improbable, it was possible for a perfectly symmetrical 8 or 10 point to outscore a visually impressive 16 pointer as long as the fewer pointed buck had long tines, even though there may be little mass. And the 16 pointer were scored (both as typical) with more points on one side.

I realized after that trip to Crossville that tine length is HUGELY important in score while mass may or may not be.

I also concluded, along with many others who were already amoung the "enlightened", that "nets are for fish".

In the end, I now have a very good understanding of how the whole Pope and Young (B & C) system works and can easily visualize what a hunter is referring to when they say they saw a 120 or 170 inch buck (assuming I trust THEIR judgement on scoring racks)

The B&C system is a good standard for me to understand the calibre of antler being talked about, as long as the people doing the talking understand GROSS score.
_________________________
God, Family, Job, Bowhunting
Luck is where Opportunity and Preparation MEET!
When in doubt...back out!
SCAPAS.stay calm and pick a spot.

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#3126334 - 01/16/13 10:16 AM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: 102]
Mike Belt
TnDeer Old Timer
16 Point


Registered: 03/26/99
Posts: 17681
Loc: Lakeland, Tn.

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If you score many racks you'll know that spread, although impressive, doesn't count much towards scoring. The only thing you might pick up on a 23" wide rack over a typical spread of 17" would be 6". Where you really pick up the points is on length of points and mass of the main beam between the base of the antler and the first 4 measurement points. Any additional tines add to that score. B & C deducts points from symmetry and Buckmasters doesn't count the spread. No system counts it all...

so-o-o-o...

Let's start a Tndeer scoring system (for those interested). Incorporate both present scoring systems counting everything (including any extra main beam measurements beyond the typical 8 point buck measurements) and then add tine mass measurements (measured at a halfway point from where the tine intersects the antler and the end of the tine). Record the score seperately. An example might be my 8 pointer scored 132 + 22 (132" for scoring + 22" of tine mass). This way you get a visualization of not only the rack size but the mass of the tines.


Edited by Mike Belt (01/16/13 10:19 AM)
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#3127020 - 01/16/13 04:23 PM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: Mike Belt]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 64229
Loc: Nashville, TN

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Hey, that works for me Mike.

I don't know if the Buckmaster system still encorporates it or not, but at one time, instead of just "typical" or "non-typical," they had several different categories for how symmetrical a rack is. And these categories were based on a "hard" number. If I remember correctly, antler fell into different categories of symmetry based on what percent of the total score came from non-typical tines. I think that is GREAT idea.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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