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#3124036 - 01/14/13 08:31 PM What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer?
348Winchester
6 Point


Registered: 08/13/12
Posts: 944
Loc: Coon Creek

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I do see it's a way to categorize them but IT IS MY OPINION that if one must score a deer then the total amount of antlers grown by the buck should be its score. I read in one of the other score threads on here people spouting a bunch of rules about what "counts" and what does not. To me it just simply does not matter.
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#3124049 - 01/14/13 08:39 PM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: 348Winchester]
Columbia Scott
8 Point


Registered: 01/23/11
Posts: 1003
Loc: Columbia, Tennessee

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Agreed, unless it's a potential record I personally don't care.
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#3124071 - 01/14/13 08:54 PM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: Columbia Scott]
tickweed
10 Point


Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 4839
Loc: medon,Tn.

content Online
I agree, if a deer grows it, give him credit. However, its nice to know where he actually stands. Although the system seems flawed, its still interesting.
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The hardest thing about Bowhunting Turkeys is leaving the gun at home!

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#3124101 - 01/14/13 09:09 PM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: tickweed]
Relentless
4 Point


Registered: 07/24/11
Posts: 336
Loc: Shelby County, TN

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I enjoy guessing a deer's gross and net scores, then putting tape to antler and seeing how close I am.

Also, it's easy to kill deer. I like the challenge of hunting for "big" deer. The score helps me set a goal.
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#3124112 - 01/14/13 09:11 PM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: Relentless]
Master Chief
10 Point


Registered: 10/11/11
Posts: 2877
Loc: Henderson County

sleepy Online
I agree to an extent. Just because a buck grew a big nontypical wad of crap doesnt mean it is that big. Ive seen 180" non typicals that looked like a baby next to a 150" typical. I always figured that was the reasoning behind the method anyways.
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#3124116 - 01/14/13 09:13 PM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: Master Chief]
tickweed
10 Point


Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 4839
Loc: medon,Tn.

content Online
fluid displacement would be the best way for typ or non typ
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#3124161 - 01/14/13 09:33 PM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: tickweed]
catman529
spiderboy
16 Point


Registered: 11/10/10
Posts: 17067
Loc: Franklin TN

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Deductions are for sissies... Nets are for fish... I am usually interested in the score of a rack, but those deductions take away inches of antler just because of symmetry...
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#3124169 - 01/14/13 09:37 PM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: Master Chief]
catman529
spiderboy
16 Point


Registered: 11/10/10
Posts: 17067
Loc: Franklin TN

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 Originally Posted By: Master Chief
I agree to an extent. Just because a buck grew a big nontypical wad of crap doesnt mean it is that big. Ive seen 180" non typicals that looked like a baby next to a 150" typical. I always figured that was the reasoning behind the method anyways.
yes the net score has more to do with how nice or big the rack looks, not how big it actually is. But for measuring what nature has produced (all of the antler) I like the gross score, because unless its a real symmetrical rack I don't care for the symmetry to affect the score.

Water displacement would be a cool way to score, not to replace the B&C system but to create a more accurate way of scoring just for those who are concerned with the total mass/volume of their rack and not how pretty it is.
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#3124173 - 01/14/13 09:41 PM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: 348Winchester]
JAY B
8 Point


Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 1167
Loc: Meigs Co.

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I enjoy scoring mine and others as well!
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#3124251 - 01/14/13 10:29 PM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: JAY B]
AT Hiker
6 Point


Registered: 07/03/11
Posts: 931
Loc: Clarksville, Tennessee

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I have always thought about weighing the antlers (with minimal skull plate) before I mount them and compare that to the "gross" score. This year I have worked on a 150 class 8 and a 130 class 8, which was 20" wide. Both deer are extremely magnificant, but if I had to choose which one to shoot in the wild I would need a few minutes to decide ( both deer were over 3.5 yr olds). With that said, score is objective but to most it is subjective. Would you rather have a 150" 10 or 8? I have worked on both and I can tell you honestly they are both great deer, with their own contributions. Same thing with a 120" 8 or 140 10+.

In my opion, we need a base line to "judge" their potential. B&C provides that and thats all it provides. Just because someone kills a 150" plus every year doesnt make them a better hunter. It just proves they have a lot of $$ or a great place to hunt. They could of course be an excellent hunter, compared to other hunters with the same oppurtunity.
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#3124364 - 01/15/13 05:41 AM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: AT Hiker]
tickweed
10 Point


Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 4839
Loc: medon,Tn.

content Online
 Originally Posted By: AT Hiker
I have always thought about weighing the antlers (with minimal skull plate) before I mount them and compare that to the "gross" score. This year I have worked on a 150 class 8 and a 130 class 8, which was 20" wide. Both deer are extremely magnificant, but if I had to choose which one to shoot in the wild I would need a few minutes to decide ( both deer were over 3.5 yr olds). With that said, score is objective but to most it is subjective. Would you rather have a 150" 10 or 8? I have worked on both and I can tell you honestly they are both great deer, with their own contributions. Same thing with a 120" 8 or 140 10+.

In my opion, we need a base line to "judge" their potential. B&C provides that and thats all it provides. Just because someone kills a 150" plus every year doesnt make them a better hunter. It just proves they have a lot of $$ or a great place to hunt. They could of course be an excellent hunter, compared to other hunters with the same oppurtunity.
Or, they could just be very lucky, especially here in Tennessee.
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#3124392 - 01/15/13 06:11 AM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: tickweed]
EastTNHunter
10 Point


Registered: 03/08/10
Posts: 2992
Loc: Rhea Co., TN

content Online
 Originally Posted By: tickweed
fluid displacement would be the best way for typ or non typ


I have always thought the same. But I don't count, and I surely don't score deer.

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#3124524 - 01/15/13 08:16 AM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: AT Hiker]
easy45
Non-Typical


Registered: 11/06/07
Posts: 29752
Loc: Chester County

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I agree that deer.should get credit for everything they score but I truly enjoy scoring deer, I've scored all of my wife's and my deer and I'm finally getting to score some other deer now, love it
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#3124532 - 01/15/13 08:19 AM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: easy45]
Bayou Buck
10 Point


Registered: 05/11/09
Posts: 2696
Loc: Spring Hill / Perry Co

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All I ever look at is the gross score. I can care less about the net.
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#3124564 - 01/15/13 08:41 AM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: Bayou Buck]
Winchester
Non-Typical


Registered: 12/05/03
Posts: 27777
Loc: TN

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Gross is really all that I ever care about as well.
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#3124605 - 01/15/13 09:05 AM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: Winchester]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65576
Loc: Nashville, TN

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I "score" antlers for two reasons: 1) to produce a mental image of how large the antlers are; and 2) as a biological measure (correlation between antler growth and buck health).

I use the B&C gross scoring system, as it measures everything (with a few limited acceptions). I have no interest in "net" scores, as I don't care how symmetrical a buck's antlers are.
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#3124619 - 01/15/13 09:19 AM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: catman529]
Tracker
6 Point


Registered: 10/22/01
Posts: 669
Loc: South Fulton,TN. USA

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OPINIONS VARY.......and everybody has one, If you dont like the scoring of an animal that has been killed and you dont see the point of scoring it.....THEN DONT SCORE IT!!!!!!!!!!! Very few people actually have a deer (or other animal) officially scored and enter it in either Pope and Young or Boone and Crockett. I personaly like to measure antlers, also I like to try to figure the score by trail cam photos then see how close I am if I am fortunate enough to get the antlers in my hands.

Edited by Tracker (01/15/13 09:23 AM)
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#3124623 - 01/15/13 09:22 AM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: BSK]
Mike Belt
TnDeer Old Timer
16 Point


Registered: 03/26/99
Posts: 18041
Loc: Lakeland, Tn.

content Online
I killed an 8 pointer. What's that tell you? It could have been a very small basket racked buck with 2" tines or it could have been a 23" wide rack with 10" tines. Both are 8 pointers. Without physically seeing them the B & C scoring system gives you a visualization of what those bucks actually looked like. I like having that capability. As far as net versus gross...if he grew it then score it.
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#3124664 - 01/15/13 09:58 AM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: EastTNHunter]
morgancountry
4 Point


Registered: 10/03/11
Posts: 464
Loc: wartburg, tn

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 Originally Posted By: EastTNHunter
 Originally Posted By: tickweed
fluid displacement would be the best way for typ or non typ


I have always thought the same. But I don't count, and I surely don't score deer.


Yep! I agree. Measure them the same way they do golf club driver heads, water displacement. Every cubic inch accounted for. But, I still enjoy scoring them the way they do. Maybe instead of typical and non typical, have typical(so deer like the Jordan and Hanson bucks get their due) and unlimited or something like that for the trashy freak monsters.

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#3124798 - 01/15/13 11:44 AM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: Mike Belt]
Football Hunter
Non-Typical


Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 25501
Loc: Wilson Co/Perry Co

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 Originally Posted By: Mike Belt
I killed an 8 pointer. What's that tell you? It could have been a very small basket racked buck with 2" tines or it could have been a 23" wide rack with 10" tines. Both are 8 pointers. Without physically seeing them the B & C scoring system gives you a visualization of what those bucks actually looked like. I like having that capability. As far as net versus gross...if he grew it then score it.
I agree to a point,a 9pt,4x5 is one thing,but I see a "9" pt,one that is really an 8 pt with a drop tine,third brow,whatever,as different.
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#3125020 - 01/15/13 02:03 PM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: Football Hunter]
Football Hunter
Non-Typical


Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 25501
Loc: Wilson Co/Perry Co

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Usually,but not always,it seems that most people that say they dont care about score,are also the ones that like gross scores better.Gross scores are almost always ,if not always higher,curious.

No data here,just going off recollections.
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#3125055 - 01/15/13 02:20 PM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: Football Hunter]
woodsman87
8 Point


Registered: 09/27/12
Posts: 1311
Loc: south TN

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I really only pay attention to gross scores. Like everybody else said, if he grew it, it should be scored. I do think I would rather kill a big typical 170" ten point net score than a 200" non-typical 29 pointer. I don't know why I am like this either.
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#3125241 - 01/15/13 04:36 PM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: catman529]
KillenTime
4 Point


Registered: 12/25/12
Posts: 257
Loc: West Tn.

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 Originally Posted By: catman529
Deductions are for sissies... Nets are for fish... I am usually interested in the score of a rack, but those deductions take away inches of antler just because of symmetry...


That's what I say!

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#3125295 - 01/15/13 05:13 PM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: woodsman87]
tickweed
10 Point


Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 4839
Loc: medon,Tn.

content Online
 Originally Posted By: woodsman87
I really only pay attention to gross scores. Like everybody else said, if he grew it, it should be scored. I do think I would rather kill a big typical 170" ten point net score than a 200" non-typical 29 pointer. I don't know why I am like this either.
Maybe Im different, but I like the trashy ones with lots of mass. I like racks with character.
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#3125311 - 01/15/13 05:21 PM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: Mike Belt]
Andy S.
TnDeer Old Timer
14 Point


Registered: 07/26/99
Posts: 7975
Loc: Atoka, TN

content Online
 Originally Posted By: Mike Belt
I killed an 8 pointer. What's that tell you? It could have been a very small basket racked buck with 2" tines or it could have been a 23" wide rack with 10" tines. Both are 8 pointers. Without physically seeing them the B & C scoring system gives you a visualization of what those bucks actually looked like. I like having that capability. As far as net versus gross...if he grew it then score it.
x2
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#3125316 - 01/15/13 05:24 PM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: tickweed]
Andy S.
TnDeer Old Timer
14 Point


Registered: 07/26/99
Posts: 7975
Loc: Atoka, TN

content Online
 Originally Posted By: tickweed
fluid displacement would be the best way for typ or non typ
Yes indeed.
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Andy S.

If I had saved all the money I spent on hunting, I'd spend it on hunting.

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#3125333 - 01/15/13 05:32 PM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: Andy S.]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65576
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Andy S.
 Originally Posted By: tickweed
fluid displacement would be the best way for typ or non typ
Yes indeed.


But all that tells you is the volume of bone material.
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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3125356 - 01/15/13 05:49 PM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: BSK]
Deer Assassin
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/01/03
Posts: 87547
Loc: Kingston Springs

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just a number dont mean squat

the memory of the hunt is more important to me
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#3125371 - 01/15/13 05:56 PM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: Deer Assassin]
hunter drew
14 Point


Registered: 06/16/07
Posts: 8590
Loc: henderson county TN Lexington

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 Originally Posted By: Deer Assassin
just a number dont mean squat

the memory of the hunt is more important to me




Ditto that. Although I do alot of horn hunting in Ohio. In Tn I just shoot for age. Unless I want to kill something. And I will be happy with whatever I put my broad head or bullet in
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#3125461 - 01/15/13 06:34 PM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: BSK]
Andy S.
TnDeer Old Timer
14 Point


Registered: 07/26/99
Posts: 7975
Loc: Atoka, TN

content Online
 Originally Posted By: BSK
But all that tells you is the volume of bone material.
Agree, but I think the total volume displaced of all bone on rack would better tell me just how impressive overall the deer is in person (like the WOW value if you will). It really irks me that a buck does not get credit for mass in his tines. For example, 12" skinny tines are impressive, 12" average diameter tines are really impressive, but 12" tines with exceptional mass is so much more impressive in my eyes, yet the B&C system does not distinguish the three, nor reward the latter. Gross score is still a good indicator of what I can expect to see when holding a rack in my hands, although sometimes the gross score and how impressed I am in person are not even close. When talking about the B&C scoring system, I always tell people "some racks look better than they score (130" 6-point), and some racks score better than they look (132" mainframe 10-point)". Basically, gross score does not always accurately represent the overall rack to me. In the end, I would prefer a buck could get full credit for all length, mass, burrs, kickers, etc, with the mass in tines being my biggest gripe, and mass along the entire length of beam my second. It seems to me that volume displaced would eliminate all of the "man-made rules" that we apply today, thus resulting in a more quantifiable and accurate representation of the rack. My .02
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#3125509 - 01/15/13 06:53 PM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: AT Hiker]
Zac
Button


Registered: 01/03/13
Posts: 20
Loc: NW Tenn.

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I don't like deductions because when I was 7 (now 15) I killed a 145" 8 point but it was almost perfectly symmetrical and this year I killed a non-typical 12 point that scored 165" before reductions but after reductions it scored 140" and it looks twice as big as the 8 point.
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#3125520 - 01/15/13 07:01 PM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: Zac]
AT Hiker
6 Point


Registered: 07/03/11
Posts: 931
Loc: Clarksville, Tennessee

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 Originally Posted By: Zac
I don't like deductions because when I was 7 (now 15) I killed a 145" 8 point but it was almost perfectly symmetrical and this year I killed a non-typical 12 point that scored 165" before reductions but after reductions it scored 140" and it looks twice as big as the 8 point.


Well buddy...all I can say is you have had some excellent luck. I would care less what my deer scored at the age of 15 (let alone 7yrs old). Wish you many more years of excellent hunting!
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#3125621 - 01/15/13 07:45 PM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: AT Hiker]
fairchaser
8 Point


Registered: 09/13/11
Posts: 1254
Loc: TN, USA

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The B&C system rewards symmetry for typical racks as a way of limiting what they consider an exceptional buck, otherwise the minimum score would be much higher. The system is not perfect which is the reason why SCI and Buckmasters have their own systems. Humans have always appreciated things that are symmetrical. A symmetrical rack looks better than a unbalanced rack of the same size. Using a new and improved way to measure now would dq all the record books and IMO would not be better just different. Gross score plus abnormal points and net score are both important for different reasons.
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#3126187 - 01/16/13 08:10 AM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: Andy S.]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65576
Loc: Nashville, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Andy S.
 Originally Posted By: BSK
But all that tells you is the volume of bone material.
...but 12" tines with exceptional mass is so much more impressive in my eyes, yet the B&C system does not distinguish the three, nor reward the latter.


That is absolutely true.


 Quote:
Basically, gross score does not always accurately represent the overall rack to me.


Without question, the B&C gross scoring system has it's failings, but so far, i haven't been able to find a better system. The volumetric measuring system sounds good, until you try it. I've seen volumetric measurements for several different antler sets, and I think you would be disappointed. It does give amazing credit for mass, but that's about all it rewards. I've seen short, stubby antlers, that are not at all visually impressive, but with lots of mass, outscore some seriously visully impressive antlers that don't have much mass. In essence, from what I've seen, the volumetric measurement is only about mass and doesn't reward long tines or long beams, or wide spread, the things that, to me, make a rack impressive.
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"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3126201 - 01/16/13 08:22 AM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: Andy S.]
Bayou Buck
10 Point


Registered: 05/11/09
Posts: 2696
Loc: Spring Hill / Perry Co

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[quote=Andy S 12" tines with exceptional mass is so much more impressive [/quote]

I agree Andy!

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#3126202 - 01/16/13 08:23 AM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: Bayou Buck]
woodsman87
8 Point


Registered: 09/27/12
Posts: 1311
Loc: south TN

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I just like killin big deer
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#3126257 - 01/16/13 09:05 AM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: woodsman87]
Zac
Button


Registered: 01/03/13
Posts: 20
Loc: NW Tenn.

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I agree with woodsman haha
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#3126280 - 01/16/13 09:25 AM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: Zac]
102
10 Point


Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 4073
Loc: Tennessee

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I agree BSK, but then, we have discussed this before.

I had been hunting for almost 30 years before I let fiesty red heads husband Ben Layton score a couple of my deer. I was motivated to do so by a buck I had killed the previous Fall. Ben suggested I bring along my next biggest buck for scoring as well.

"Shock and awe" were all I could say on the ride back home. In essence I learned that symmetry, or lack thereof, could have very negative affects on final Net score. In fact, any and all "character" points, while visually impressive, were nothing short of deductions in the final tally.

I realized that while very improbable, it was possible for a perfectly symmetrical 8 or 10 point to outscore a visually impressive 16 pointer as long as the fewer pointed buck had long tines, even though there may be little mass. And the 16 pointer were scored (both as typical) with more points on one side.

I realized after that trip to Crossville that tine length is HUGELY important in score while mass may or may not be.

I also concluded, along with many others who were already amoung the "enlightened", that "nets are for fish".

In the end, I now have a very good understanding of how the whole Pope and Young (B & C) system works and can easily visualize what a hunter is referring to when they say they saw a 120 or 170 inch buck (assuming I trust THEIR judgement on scoring racks)

The B&C system is a good standard for me to understand the calibre of antler being talked about, as long as the people doing the talking understand GROSS score.
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#3126334 - 01/16/13 10:16 AM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: 102]
Mike Belt
TnDeer Old Timer
16 Point


Registered: 03/26/99
Posts: 18041
Loc: Lakeland, Tn.

content Online
If you score many racks you'll know that spread, although impressive, doesn't count much towards scoring. The only thing you might pick up on a 23" wide rack over a typical spread of 17" would be 6". Where you really pick up the points is on length of points and mass of the main beam between the base of the antler and the first 4 measurement points. Any additional tines add to that score. B & C deducts points from symmetry and Buckmasters doesn't count the spread. No system counts it all...

so-o-o-o...

Let's start a Tndeer scoring system (for those interested). Incorporate both present scoring systems counting everything (including any extra main beam measurements beyond the typical 8 point buck measurements) and then add tine mass measurements (measured at a halfway point from where the tine intersects the antler and the end of the tine). Record the score seperately. An example might be my 8 pointer scored 132 + 22 (132" for scoring + 22" of tine mass). This way you get a visualization of not only the rack size but the mass of the tines.


Edited by Mike Belt (01/16/13 10:19 AM)
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#3127020 - 01/16/13 04:23 PM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: Mike Belt]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65576
Loc: Nashville, TN

Offline
Hey, that works for me Mike.

I don't know if the Buckmaster system still encorporates it or not, but at one time, instead of just "typical" or "non-typical," they had several different categories for how symmetrical a rack is. And these categories were based on a "hard" number. If I remember correctly, antler fell into different categories of symmetry based on what percent of the total score came from non-typical tines. I think that is GREAT idea.
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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3127266 - 01/16/13 06:52 PM Re: What's The Purpose of Scoring a Deer? [Re: Mike Belt]
Andy S.
TnDeer Old Timer
14 Point


Registered: 07/26/99
Posts: 7975
Loc: Atoka, TN

content Online
 Originally Posted By: Mike Belt
Let's start a Tndeer scoring system (for those interested). Incorporate both present scoring systems counting everything (including any extra main beam measurements beyond the typical 8 point buck measurements) and then add tine mass measurements (measured at a halfway point from where the tine intersects the antler and the end of the tine). Record the score seperately. An example might be my 8 pointer scored 132 + 22 (132" for scoring + 22" of tine mass). This way you get a visualization of not only the rack size but the mass of the tines.
I'm game. \:\)
_________________________
Andy S.

If I had saved all the money I spent on hunting, I'd spend it on hunting.

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