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#3116259 - 01/09/13 01:09 PM Webiste to find past county deer records?
pressfit
10 Point


Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 3235
Loc: Giles Co. Tn

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Do any of you know of a website that has listed the biggest deer killed by county in Tn.? A guy was telling me about it last night but didnt know the websites name..thanks!
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#3116269 - 01/09/13 01:14 PM Re: Webiste to find past county deer records? [Re: pressfit]
Boll Weevil
8 Point


Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 1269
Loc: Hardeman

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It's tennregistry.com
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#3116273 - 01/09/13 01:16 PM Re: Webiste to find past county deer records? [Re: Boll Weevil]
pressfit
10 Point


Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 3235
Loc: Giles Co. Tn

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thanks!
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Do you know Jesus as your Savior?don't wait until its too late.You are only one heartbeat away from eternity. You never know when it will be your last. Repent and trust the Lord today as your Savior!

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#3116331 - 01/09/13 02:01 PM Re: Webiste to find past county deer records? [Re: pressfit]
Wes Parrish
16 Point


Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 19390
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN

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Let me preface this with:

1) I believe we have an overall healthier deer herd post-1998 with either a 2 or a 3-buck limit, and more liberal doe-harvest opportunities, than we had prior to 1998 (when we had an 11-buck limit and relatively little opportunity to kill a doe).

2) I believe the growing widespread practice of QDM is providing much more good than harm.

3) We are harvesting more "older" bucks now in TN than at anytime in the past.

4) There may be more bucks NOT listed on this registry than listed, and this registry is rife with errors, such as double-listing the names of some some WMA's, then having different hunters on the lists (i.e. look at the two listings for President's Island WMA and/or Land Between the Lakes vs. LBL). And if you look at the TN listings for Pope & Young or Boone & Crockett, you will find many listed there that are not listed on the TN Deer Registry.

5) But, the "trend" data on this registry should still be "good".


THAT SAID,

WHY are so many of the "top-end" highest scoring bucks (particularly among the typicals) harvested PRIOR to 1998?

Wouldn't it be a reasonable expectation that we now produce MORE of these largest antlered bucks NOW, than during the 1970's, 80's, and 90's?

Or could it be that antler high-grading (in this case, the skewed killing off of the largest antlered young bucks) is a much bigger problem than many have thought?

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#3116344 - 01/09/13 02:11 PM Re: Webiste to find past county deer records? [Re: Wes Parrish]
Wes Parrish
16 Point


Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 19390
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN

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And just to add a little more fuel to the high-grading fire, it remains remarkable that the TN State Record Typical was taken in 1959. More remarkable in that this wasn't a particularly high top-end score compared to many other neighboring states' top typicals. Add to this, our all-time top typical came from a poor soil mountainous region (Cumberland County), rather than the rich bottomland agricultural areas that are supposed to grow the bigger ones.

Also note TN's #2 Typical was killed in 1979.
#3 in 1995.
#4 in 1978.
#5 in 1996.

We have more "older" bucks than ever before, right?
Our statewide deer herd is "healthier" than ever before, right?
So why are we not producing more of those really high-scoring bucks?

Could it be, that we made a change from non-selectively just shooting ANY buck with antlers, to focusing most on selectively killing off the largest antlered YOUNG bucks, which in turn is leaving mainly the smallest antlered of bucks to survive to maturity?

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#3116370 - 01/09/13 02:26 PM Re: Webiste to find past county deer records? [Re: Wes Parrish]
Andy S.
TnDeer Old Timer
14 Point


Registered: 07/26/99
Posts: 7991
Loc: Atoka, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Wes Parrish
There may be more bucks NOT listed on this registry than listed.....
I believe this to be true, especially in my neck of the woods.
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#3116374 - 01/09/13 02:28 PM Re: Webiste to find past county deer records? [Re: Wes Parrish]
Wes Parrish
16 Point


Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 19390
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Wes Parrish
But, the "trend" data on this registry should still be "good". \:\)

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#3116389 - 01/09/13 02:36 PM Re: Webiste to find past county deer records? [Re: Andy S.]
Boll Weevil
8 Point


Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 1269
Loc: Hardeman

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 Originally Posted By: Andy S.
 Originally Posted By: Wes Parrish
There may be more bucks NOT listed on this registry than listed.....
I believe this to be true, especially in my neck of the woods.

Agree. I almost added a comment like this on my original post but figured all he was asking for was website vs. my opinion of what data might actually be found there. \:\) I do wish there were more up-to-date data even if it were somehow "deidentified" to maintain privacy...maybe just score and county. Would be great to see.

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#3116394 - 01/09/13 02:39 PM Re: Webiste to find past county deer records? [Re: Boll Weevil]
Wes Parrish
16 Point


Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 19390
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Boll Weevil
I almost added a comment like this on my original post but figured all he was asking for was website vs. my opinion of what data might actually be found there. \:\) I do wish there were more up-to-date data even if it were somehow "deidentified" to maintain privacy...maybe just score and county. Would be great to see.

And I almost didn't comment since the original question was answered. \:\)
But seemed a great spot to stir up Wesley's High Grading Theory!

Don't have anything in front of me, but I believe a long-standing statewide NON-TYPICAL from Washington County is not in the TN Deer Registry. This particular deer would probably still be in the top three, and it came from the poor soil mountains of the Cherokee National Forest back in the 80's.

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#3116499 - 01/09/13 03:57 PM Re: Webiste to find past county deer records? [Re: Wes Parrish]
AlabamaSwamper
12 Point


Registered: 06/03/04
Posts: 5112
Loc: Southern Wayne CO and NW Alaba...

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Wes,

Lots of huge bucks killed from say 1990 and before in TN and here where I live in AL. Of course, we probably had 5 deer psm or less. The low densities back then could have and probably had as much to do as any high grading. Just my opinion, which is just that. \:\)

I actually see the reverse anyway. I'm seeing more and bigger bucks every year. It seems there are more 150+ killed around here year after year.
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#3116561 - 01/09/13 04:27 PM Re: Webiste to find past county deer records? [Re: AlabamaSwamper]
Wes Parrish
16 Point


Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 19390
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN

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 Originally Posted By: AlabamaSwamper
The low densities back then could have and probably had as much to do as any high grading.

I totally agree that low deer densities (for the habitat) will usually produce a healthier deer herd, including larger antlers per age class on the bucks.

But in much of Tennessee, the deer population may be little different than it was in the 1990's, while the general herd health is improved. Consider Henry and Stewart Counties as examples.

 Originally Posted By: AlabamaSwamper
I'm seeing more and bigger bucks every year. It seems there are more 150+ killed around here year after year.

Guess it depends on what you consider "bigger".
There are definitely a lot more 110 to 130-class bucks being taken now annually in TN than compared to a decade ago and farther back. Can't say I'm seeing more 150+ coming from most of the areas I hunt, although there are a lot more bucks with that potential being produced, just mostly killed as 110 to 130-class younger bucks aging 2 1/2 or 3 1/2.

Since 1998, we have had an expanding deer herd in some counties, mostly in East TN, and extreme West TN (like Lake/Obion Counties). IMO,this deer herd expansion in both the East and Western parts of Tennessee has greatly benefited the deer herd health in Middle TN since 1998. As a whole, wouldn't we expect to see more top-end scoring bucks (let's just say above a 160 net for typicals) showing up now than say back in the 70's, 80's, and 90's?

Not wanting anyone to "take me wrong" here, as I do believe right now, "These are the good ole days" of Tennessee's deer hunting. My question is simply how is it that we're taking so many older bucks now, yet more with larger antlers were being recorded in the record bucks BEFORE we were killing so many 110 to 130-class bucks?

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#3116587 - 01/09/13 04:41 PM Re: Webiste to find past county deer records? [Re: Wes Parrish]
bowriter
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 42034
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

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Many...many big bucks are notin the registry or any other record keeping book. I found this out when I did some research for a magazine article I was writing back in 2004 and I am as guilty, if that is the correct term, as anybody.

Wes' high grading theory is sure food for thought. Of course, it is also flawed. The herd is healthier in terms of a far better sex and age ratio. That does not compute to more big bucks. The obvious reason for the lack of huge or state record caliber bucks is simple.

Game cams.
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#3117103 - 01/09/13 10:02 PM Re: Webiste to find past county deer records? [Re: bowriter]
MRUTVOL
6 Point


Registered: 12/16/02
Posts: 891
Loc: Goodlettsville,Tennessee,USA

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 Originally Posted By: bowriter
Many...many big bucks are notin the registry or any other record keeping book. I found this out when I did some research for a magazine article I was writing back in 2004 and I am as guilty, if that is the correct term, as anybody.

Game cams.


X2....
The registry is far from an accurate measure of what is and has been killed in this state. Personally I have 4 maybe 5 that would go into it but that just is not my thing and a hassle to haul a bunch of mounted deer heads miles away to get scored. I also heard you had to have the kill tags for them and I usually do not keep them for that long of time. Do not know if that is true or not. The only registry I would bother to get in is the BC or P&Y and looks like I am not going to get in those unless something happens quick. \:\(

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#3117266 - 01/10/13 06:37 AM Re: Webiste to find past county deer records? [Re: MRUTVOL]
Wes Parrish
16 Point


Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 19390
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN

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 Originally Posted By: MRUTVOL
The registry is far from an accurate measure of what is and has been killed in this state. Personally I have 4 maybe 5 that would go into it but that just is not my thing and a hassle to haul a bunch of mounted deer heads miles away to get scored.

x Many and I totally agree.
BUT, the "TREND" data provided by this registry should still be good?
I believe it should be.

And speaking of what's NOT in this registry, I'd speculate that the smaller bucks that qualify are the ones LESS likely to be included, while the more TOP-END bucks are more likely. If that's the case, it's even more telling that antler-high grading of young bucks may be the number one reason we're not seeing a lot more high-scoring mature bucks (as we are killing a lot more mature bucks).

What I'm saying is it doesn't appear that top-end high-scoring mature bucks are being represented in the herd in the same percentage today, as they were when nearly all hunters were non-selective, just shooting any and every buck they could. If we are now killing say 5x more mature bucks, wouldn't it be a reasonable expectation to be seeing 5x more top-end high-scoring bucks in those records over the last decade compared to the decade prior to that?

Ironically, at least in the case of the "Typical" category, it appears we're seeing relatively fewer entries when it comes to bucks net-scoring somewhere around 150-160 and up. I'm just asking/wondering how & why could this be?

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#3117283 - 01/10/13 07:00 AM Re: Webiste to find past county deer records? [Re: Wes Parrish]
Andy S.
TnDeer Old Timer
14 Point


Registered: 07/26/99
Posts: 7991
Loc: Atoka, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Wes Parrish
What I'm saying is it doesn't appear that top-end high-scoring mature bucks are being represented in the herd in the same percentage today, as they were when nearly all hunters were non-selective, just shooting any and every buck they could. If we are now killing say 5x more mature bucks, wouldn't it be a reasonable expectation to be seeing 5x more top-end high-scoring bucks in those records over the last decade compared to the decade prior to that?

Ironically, at least in the case of the "Typical" category, it appears we're seeing relatively fewer entries when it comes to bucks net-scoring somewhere around 150-160 and up. I'm just asking/wondering how & why could this be?
I agree Wes and have been asking this same question for the last five or so years. I, like you, think it has to do with the deer hunters today high grading the standing crop of bucks (I am guilty of it too) whereas back in my granddad's years they did not put any emphasis on the size of the buck, they just shot deer. If you will, they (old school deer hunters) killed more of a random sample of the herd whereas today a good deal of deer hunters target the best headgear of each cohort, which in turn knocks out those with the most potential in out years.
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#3117340 - 01/10/13 07:59 AM Re: Webiste to find past county deer records? [Re: bowriter]
8 POINTS OR BETTER
10 Point


Registered: 08/15/07
Posts: 4087
Loc: Hardin, Co.

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 Originally Posted By: bowriter
Many...many big bucks are notin the registry or any other record keeping book. I found this out when I did some research for a magazine article I was writing back in 2004 and I am as guilty, if that is the correct term, as anybody.

Wes' high grading theory is sure food for thought.


x2

I had two in the registry, but had them taken out.

With all the big bucks that are being killed now days, its not as big a deal to kill a 140+ buck now days as it was 20 or 30 years ago. So a lot of people don't put them in the registry.

But Wes I still believe in your high grading theory.
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#3117635 - 01/10/13 11:31 AM Re: Webiste to find past county deer records? [Re: Andy S.]
Wes Parrish
16 Point


Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 19390
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Andy S.
. . . . . . been asking this same question for the last five or so years. I, like you, think it has to do with the deer hunters today high grading the standing crop of bucks (I am guilty of it too) whereas back in my granddad's years they did not put any emphasis on the size of the buck, they just shot deer. If you will, they (old school deer hunters) killed more of a random sample of the herd whereas today a good deal of deer hunters target the best headgear of each cohort, which in turn knocks out those with the most potential in out years.

Andy, I believe you have a better way with the words than I, and that's what I was trying to say. \:\)

Taking a step farther than "of each cohort", I'd say it's specifically the 2 1/2 and 3 1/2-yr-old cohorts that are experiencing the most dramatic antler high-grading, while the most exceptional of the yearling cohort may also be getting hard hit in some areas where many hunters use "4 on a side" or "8 points" as their criteria in defining a "shooter" buck.

Speaking of being "guilty", I personally took a most exceptional yearling buck in 1997 (at a time in my hunting when I was mostly focused on antlers, only intended to take "8 points or better AND wider than their ears"). Not only did this yearling have the "required 8 points" but also a spread of over 16 inches! It was after my having a hard time believing that a yearling buck could be THAT big that I began focusing on age at least as much as antlers, the only way to greatly decrease the antler high-grading issue imo. Based on antler age growth models, I killed a B&C buck there in 1997, but just 3 or 4 years before he acquired the age to "express" more of his potential.

More telling, earlier that morning, there was a smaller buck which came by with the typical little 4-pt antlers of a yearling buck. Since his antlers didn't measure up to my "antler restrictions", I let him walk. Had I not been using "antler restrictions", I'd have killed the small buck, and probably never even seen the 8-pt yearling that came along later, which was exactly what happened more before hunters were using antler restrictions on a widespread basis.

As our overall herd health has improved, those individual bucks born with the best antler genetics may be "standing out" more as yearlings and 2 1/2's than they would have a couple decades ago. Perhaps in the past, a particular yearling buck might have had the genetic potential to be an 8-pt yearling, but only "expressed" himself as a 4-pt yearling, and might not have been as likely to get shot in 1995 as he would as an 8-pt yearling in 2012.

With improved herd health, bucks may be "expressing" more of their potential at younger ages (when they're more vulnerable to being selectively killed by a human hunter)???

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#3118101 - 01/10/13 05:26 PM Re: Webiste to find past county deer records? [Re: 8 POINTS OR BETTER]
tickweed
10 Point


Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 4845
Loc: medon,Tn.

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 Originally Posted By: 8 POINTS OR BETTER
 Originally Posted By: bowriter
Many...many big bucks are notin the registry or any other record keeping book. I found this out when I did some research for a magazine article I was writing back in 2004 and I am as guilty, if that is the correct term, as anybody.

Wes' high grading theory is sure food for thought.


x2

I had two in the registry, but had them taken out.

With all the big bucks that are being killed now days, its not as big a deal to kill a 140+ buck now days as it was 20 or 30 years ago. So a lot of people don't put them in the registry.

But Wes I still believe in your high grading theory.
As for it being a big deal or not, I dont know lots of people taking 140 inch deer anywhere. Just a handful each year around this area in west Tn. Several in Fayette, maybe the Nashville basin, but these areas have always produced better than average antler growth. May be some truth to the theory, but I wish I could find these better than average bucks.
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#3126981 - 01/16/13 04:04 PM Re: Webiste to find past county deer records? [Re: 8 POINTS OR BETTER]
shaggy
Button


Registered: 11/05/12
Posts: 14
Loc: TN

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What was the reason that you had them removed? I can understand not wanting people to know where the deer was killed to prevent trespassing and to keep someone from leasing the place out from underneath you, but the website only lists your name. I like to have my deer scored for several reasons. One is so that I know what it scores so I can better judge deer(sure I can and do score them, it's just nice to have it confirmed). Two is just to see where the deer stands in your county. If I spent all that time in the field, driving back and forth, skinning the deer, and paying for a taxidermist, taking it off the wall and driving a few miles to have it scored is nothing. The event is really fun too. You can judge the deer and see how close you get, talk to people that hunt around you, eat some good food, and just fellowship. If everyone is after the big buck, why not get it scored? If we all had them scored could it help TWRA to see if what they are doing is helping?
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