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#3116086 - 01/09/13 11:09 AM My last kill of the season, strange discovery.
Urban_Hunter
8 Point


Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 1516
Loc: TN

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So I went Saturday to try and top off the freezer for the year. I had been seeing about 10 does and I was hoping to take two. I only managed one due to being busted by her when she was sniffing the trunk of my tree. When she saw me and blew/flagged/ran, she stopped about 50 yds trying to encourage the others to flee. I dropped her and the woods lit alive with running deer. Now, to my discovery.

Having taken down somewhere around 50 deer in my life and processing every single one myself I would say I'm pretty familiar with whats inside one. This time however, I made a strange discovery. Right in the middle of lower cavity she had two football shaped water bags about the size of a nerf toy football. After a closer look they were attached to the genital tract and it was evident what I had found. It appears she was pregnant. Now I wish I had taken a different one, but obviously could not have foreseen this. Guess that's just what happens in late season kills. Anyone else see this?


Edited by Urban_Hunter (01/09/13 11:10 AM)
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#3116092 - 01/09/13 11:14 AM Re: My last kill of the season, strange discovery. [Re: Urban_Hunter]
MUP
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Registered: 08/01/07
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Fairly common for this time of year I reckon. Not that I've ever seen it tho, b/c does are off limits during rifle season in my unit A county.
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#3116106 - 01/09/13 11:25 AM Re: My last kill of the season, strange discovery. [Re: MUP]
Poser
Mud Dauber
16 Point


Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 12881
Loc: Tennessee

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Yeah, I hate that, too. I killed a big fat Squirrel last day of the season last year and, same thing. It happens.
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#3116110 - 01/09/13 11:28 AM Re: My last kill of the season, strange discovery. [Re: MUP]
catman529
spiderboy
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Registered: 11/10/10
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ImThere killed a big doe on the last day of season and I noticed the sac that wasn't there in my deer that I killed, so I cut it open and found 2 fawns. Here is one of them -



Don't feel bad about it though, she would not have produced any more fawns whether you had killed her in early or late season.
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#3116120 - 01/09/13 11:45 AM Re: My last kill of the season, strange discovery. [Re: catman529]
woodsman87
8 Point


Registered: 09/27/12
Posts: 1307
Loc: south TN

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That is strange but I am sure it is pretty common. Like catman said, she wouldn't be having fawns next sring weather you killed her sept. 22 or Jan. 5. Chances are good that the others were pregnant too.
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#3116164 - 01/09/13 12:18 PM Re: My last kill of the season, strange discovery. [Re: woodsman87]
stik
"Popcorn"
18 Point


Registered: 03/12/99
Posts: 21028
Loc: lenoir city,tn

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 Originally Posted By: woodsman87
Chances are good that the others were pregnant too.


yep
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#3116251 - 01/09/13 01:03 PM Re: My last kill of the season, strange discovery. [Re: stik]
darn2ten
8 Point


Registered: 12/08/11
Posts: 1041
Loc: lincoln co. tn.

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Yeah, really don't matter if you kill her early season or late season, fact of the matter is she will not produce a fawn either way.
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#3116275 - 01/09/13 01:18 PM Re: My last kill of the season, strange discovery. [Re: darn2ten]
Winchester
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Registered: 12/05/03
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Like stated pretty common this time of year. I killed one in Dickson co a few years back the last wknd that actually had 3 fetus in her.
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#3116391 - 01/09/13 02:38 PM Re: My last kill of the season, strange discovery. [Re: Winchester]
JeepKuntry
16 Point


Registered: 01/20/04
Posts: 14458
Loc: Clinton, TN

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It's a chance you take. I have a friend that won't kill a doe past muzzleloader season. To each his own. Other does are pregnant and will carry on the circle of life.
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#3116427 - 01/09/13 03:03 PM Re: My last kill of the season, strange discovery. [Re: Urban_Hunter]
Jaahspike
4 Point


Registered: 11/17/10
Posts: 265
Loc: Wilson/Crockett

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 Originally Posted By: Urban_Hunter
So I went Saturday to try and top off the freezer for the year. I had been seeing about 10 does and I was hoping to take two. I only managed one due to being busted by her when she was sniffing the trunk of my tree. When she saw me and blew/flagged/ran, she stopped about 50 yds trying to encourage the others to flee. I dropped her and the woods lit alive with running deer. Now, to my discovery.

Having taken down somewhere around 50 deer in my life and processing every single one myself I would say I'm pretty familiar with whats inside one. This time however, I made a strange discovery. Right in the middle of lower cavity she had two football shaped water bags about the size of a nerf toy football. After a closer look they were attached to the genital tract and it was evident what I had found. It appears she was pregnant. Now I wish I had taken a different one, but obviously could not have foreseen this. Guess that's just what happens in late season kills. Anyone else see this?


Glad/sad to read this. I killed a doe this past weekend and my brother and I found the same thing. We had no clue what it was but my brother said that is probably what it was. It is sad but she will eat the same. Better for our families that I killed her instead of coyotes or a vehicle and the meat ruin.
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#3116448 - 01/09/13 03:24 PM Re: My last kill of the season, strange discovery. [Re: Jaahspike]
BMan
16 Point


Registered: 02/06/06
Posts: 10565
Loc: Middle TN

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If you're in unit L, it's actually a good thing; helps manage the herd size.
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#3116469 - 01/09/13 03:34 PM Re: My last kill of the season, strange discovery. [Re: BMan]
catman529
spiderboy
16 Point


Registered: 11/10/10
Posts: 16640
Loc: Franklin TN

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 Originally Posted By: BMan
If you're in unit L, it's actually a good thing; helps manage the herd size.
doesn't matter if shes pregnant when you kill her, if she's dead she won't produce any more fawns either way.
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#3116598 - 01/09/13 04:46 PM Re: My last kill of the season, strange discovery. [Re: catman529]
bowriter
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Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 41874
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

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That is where the data comes from that determines when the rut peaked-fetal aging or development. I assume y'all ate them. I have been told the meat is very tender.

Had a bit of debate a week or so ago with M.R. James, founder of Bowhunter magazine re when to kill does. His argument was, if you wait until late to kill them, you run the risk of killing a pregnant one. Therefore, you kill three deer,one of which should be a buck.

My argument was, what the heck difference could it possibly make when you kill a doe? Either way, she can't have any fawns. Seems like common sense to me.
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#3116772 - 01/09/13 06:21 PM Re: My last kill of the season, strange discovery. [Re: catman529]
JCDEERMAN
14 Point


Registered: 07/19/08
Posts: 8408
Loc: NASHVILLE, TN

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 Originally Posted By: catman529
 Originally Posted By: BMan
If you're in unit L, it's actually a good thing; helps manage the herd size.
doesn't matter if shes pregnant when you kill her, if she's dead she won't produce any more fawns either way.


Right on Catman
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#3116799 - 01/09/13 06:36 PM Re: My last kill of the season, strange discovery. [Re: JCDEERMAN]
BigPete357
6 Point


Registered: 12/01/12
Posts: 735
Loc: Columbia,TN

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lots of does are pregnant this time of year, so it pretty common.

you were hoping to kill two anyway weren't you? ;\)

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#3116884 - 01/09/13 07:28 PM Re: My last kill of the season, strange discovery. [Re: Jaahspike]
birddog
12 Point


Registered: 02/21/02
Posts: 6508
Loc: Seymour, TN

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i never understood why hunters have such a strong opinion about shooting deer late in the season because they are pregnant. whats the difference in shooting that same deer early in the season? either way its dead and its would be fawns were never born.
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#3116922 - 01/09/13 07:47 PM Re: My last kill of the season, strange discovery. [Re: birddog]
Gravey
16 Point


Registered: 07/20/05
Posts: 19216
Loc: Rutherford / Wilson County Lin...

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This is one with twins last year that my brother killed and we found when gutting her. It was a first for me.

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#3117033 - 01/09/13 09:02 PM Re: My last kill of the season, strange discovery. [Re: Jaahspike]
ROUGH COUNTRY HUNTER
16 Point


Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 12539
Loc: FRANKLIN COUNTY

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thats why i kill my does early in the season
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#3117396 - 01/10/13 08:37 AM Re: My last kill of the season, strange discovery. [Re: ROUGH COUNTRY HUNTER]
woodsman87
8 Point


Registered: 09/27/12
Posts: 1307
Loc: south TN

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It doesn't matter at all whether she died before or after she been bred, she wouldn't be reproducing. But I do understand how you would feel saddened after pulling out a fetus or two. I have done it before too, I am no deer biologist but I killed one in Jan. one time and it had two things in it about the size of a half dollar that I have never seen before. I know that it was two fawns though.
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#3117449 - 01/10/13 09:22 AM Re: My last kill of the season, strange discovery. [Re: woodsman87]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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At this time of year, the vast, vast majority of does 1 1/2 years old are pregnant, whether their fetuses are big enough to see or not.
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#3117491 - 01/10/13 09:43 AM Re: My last kill of the season, strange discovery. [Re: BSK]
Hunter 257W
10 Point


Registered: 10/04/12
Posts: 3187
Loc: Franklin County

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The reasoning I have read for not shooting does late leans more towards helping the bucks out. IT goes like this - if you know you want to shoot a doe or two, it's better to shoot them as early as possible so the bucks don't have to exert themselves on those does in the rut. This keeps bucks from getting so run down going into Winter. Obviously something that is going to be more important further North where winters are more harsh of course but I see no reason not to try taking does as early as you can here.
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#3117527 - 01/10/13 10:07 AM Re: My last kill of the season, strange discovery. [Re: BSK]
catman529
spiderboy
16 Point


Registered: 11/10/10
Posts: 16640
Loc: Franklin TN

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
At this time of year, the vast, vast majority of does 1 1/2 years old are pregnant, whether their fetuses are big enough to see or not.
can you tell the age of the fetus by the size? the ones in ImThere's doe were about 2.5 inches long and she was 3.5 years old. Maybe you can tell approximately when she was bred?
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#3117684 - 01/10/13 12:07 PM Re: My last kill of the season, strange discovery. [Re: BSK]
Urban_Hunter
8 Point


Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 1516
Loc: TN

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
At this time of year, the vast, vast majority of does 1 1/2 years old are pregnant, whether their fetuses are big enough to see or not.


I guess this is the part I hadn't considered. This spot I have to hunt it is almost inconceivable that all the does get bred because there is so many. All year long I saw three different bucks, one of which I took before rut and the other two I let walk: one 1.5 5pt, one 2.5 8pt. However, on the last day of my season, I counted 24 does and made sure I wasn't counting them twice. Now that I think about it, maybe they are all bred and I have the happiest bucks in the state!
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#3118108 - 01/10/13 05:32 PM Re: My last kill of the season, strange discovery. [Re: Urban_Hunter]
mathews338
12 Point


Registered: 11/05/09
Posts: 5132
Loc: jackson co.

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i have probably killed a few like that before but i just gut them and pay no attention to whats inside.
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#3118921 - 01/11/13 08:51 AM Re: My last kill of the season, strange discovery. [Re: catman529]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
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 Originally Posted By: catman529
 Originally Posted By: BSK
At this time of year, the vast, vast majority of does 1 1/2 years old are pregnant, whether their fetuses are big enough to see or not.
can you tell the age of the fetus by the size? the ones in ImThere's doe were about 2.5 inches long and she was 3.5 years old. Maybe you can tell approximately when she was bred?


Yes, the size of the fetus tells you how many days prior the doe was bred. But the differences are so small day to day that I would need the fetus to actually measure it. You can buy a "fetal scale" that is a basically a tape measure with the lengths marked in "days after conception."
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#3118923 - 01/11/13 08:51 AM Re: My last kill of the season, strange discovery. [Re: Hunter 257W]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
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Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Hunter 257W
The reasoning I have read for not shooting does late leans more towards helping the bucks out. IT goes like this - if you know you want to shoot a doe or two, it's better to shoot them as early as possible so the bucks don't have to exert themselves on those does in the rut. This keeps bucks from getting so run down going into Winter. Obviously something that is going to be more important further North where winters are more harsh of course but I see no reason not to try taking does as early as you can here.


I agree with this. I would prefer to take does before the rut if the local sex ratio is poor.
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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3118927 - 01/11/13 08:54 AM Re: My last kill of the season, strange discovery. [Re: Urban_Hunter]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
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Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Urban_Hunter
 Originally Posted By: BSK
At this time of year, the vast, vast majority of does 1 1/2 years old are pregnant, whether their fetuses are big enough to see or not.


I guess this is the part I hadn't considered. This spot I have to hunt it is almost inconceivable that all the does get bred because there is so many. All year long I saw three different bucks, one of which I took before rut and the other two I let walk: one 1.5 5pt, one 2.5 8pt. However, on the last day of my season, I counted 24 does and made sure I wasn't counting them twice. Now that I think about it, maybe they are all bred and I have the happiest bucks in the state!


It is amazing, but they all get bred (but that also points out how stressful the rut can be on bucks). Also remember that what deer you see in daylight has absolutely no relation to what deer are actually there. Highly pressured deer can and do learn to be totally nocturnal. Unless fawn production is extremely low, it is biologically impossible to have more than 3 does per buck, and rarely is that bad.
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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3119778 - 01/11/13 08:24 PM Re: My last kill of the season, strange discovery. [Re: Jaahspike]
Boone 58
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