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#3114394 - 01/08/13 09:47 AM Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan
de novo
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I realize Piers Morgan only has a dozen or so viewers for his CNN primetime talk show so many of you may have missed the Alex Jones segment last night. Piers was direspectful and insulting when he attacked GOA leader, Larry Pratt, a few weeks ago. To say Jones put Piers in his place last night would be an understatement.

Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtyKofFih8Y

http://www.infowars.com/alex-jones-i-made-cnn-producer-cry/
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#3114437 - 01/08/13 10:16 AM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: de novo]
doubledownranch
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Wow, Jones made him look like quite a loser.
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#3114456 - 01/08/13 10:35 AM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: doubledownranch]
Grizzly Johnson
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I watched it when it was on.... Did you catch the second segment where the "Polish" friend of Morgans was on there talking gun control?

Morgans statement "people like that" are the reason he is pushing for more gun control made me see red....

Glad Jones did put him in his place and show him how it feels to be railroaded when trying to prove a point, such as when Piers interviewed Mr. Pratt and called him an idiot....

I just hope Mr. Jones over the top performance and conspiracy theory talk doesn't prove to be a negative among those on the fence about more gun control..... in other words the media showing Jones as a gun loving mad man!!
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#3114619 - 01/08/13 12:05 PM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: Grizzly Johnson]
infoman jr.
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I agreed with Jones, but his delivery was horrible imo. I don't think he did us any favors with that one.
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#3114656 - 01/08/13 12:31 PM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: infoman jr.]
de novo
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 Originally Posted By: infoman jr.
I agreed with Jones, but his delivery was horrible imo. I don't think he did us any favors with that one.


I disagree. Whether you like his delivery or not he went out on CNN with the intention to get out as much information as possible in spite of the network's desire to drive the debate. Also, the attention and youtube watches he receives today will be many times more than those who tuned in to the show.

His intention was to raise awareness for a variety of liberty issues, increase the exposure of himself and his http://www.infowars.com website, and intimidate Piers Morgan.

Mission accomplished.
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#3114659 - 01/08/13 12:34 PM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: infoman jr.]
TAFKAP
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 Originally Posted By: infoman jr.
I agreed with Jones, but his delivery was horrible imo. I don't think he did us any favors with that one.


My thoughts, exactly. Even when his message is dead on target, he loses most people with all his NWO, United-Nations/megabank conspiracy, and tinfoil hat message. The guy is a certifiable loon, and is a poor spokesman for the truly conservative perspective.
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#3114660 - 01/08/13 12:34 PM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: de novo]
JThuntsalot
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I would love to punch Piers Right in is British Mouth. He should not even be allowed to disguse American Politics since he is not a American Citizen. That is like a peta member being on here.
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#3114664 - 01/08/13 12:37 PM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: de novo]
TAFKAP
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 Originally Posted By: de novo
 Originally Posted By: infoman jr.
I agreed with Jones, but his delivery was horrible imo. I don't think he did us any favors with that one.


I disagree. Whether you like his delivery or not he went out on CNN with the intention to get out as much information as possible in spite of the network's desire to drive the debate. Also, the attention and youtube watches he receives today will be many times more than those who tuned in to the show.

His intention was to raise awareness for a variety of liberty issues, increase the exposure of himself and his http://www.infowars.com website, and intimidate Piers Morgan.

Mission accomplished.


Here's the problem....any legitimate information he gave to the previously uninformed watcher will now drive that person to the Infowars website. There, they will see about all the stupid conspiracies he vomits out, an will likely turn off a previously receptive person. Contrails, 9/11 inside job crap, Bilderberg conspiracies, and other stupidity are the biggest distractions to Jones's message. It doesn't help that his followers are just as looney.

Also, the aftermath of the interview, through distribution by Drudge et al. is what's garnering the watchers......it's not like Piers Morgan's show has any significant ratings.
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#3114944 - 01/08/13 04:12 PM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: TAFKAP]
Stalkhunter
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guess i got censored hmmm
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#3115008 - 01/08/13 05:23 PM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: TAFKAP]
de novo
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 Originally Posted By: TAFKAP

The guy is a certifiable loon, and is a poor spokesman for the truly conservative perspective.


Fortunately, you only get to give us your opinion and do not get to appoint conservative spokesmen. I'll be for anyone who takes over a liberal's anti gun show to spout a defense of the 2nd Amendment and personal liberty. The conservative message needs to be out here as much as possible regardless of the messenger or how you think some lib will interpret it.
 Originally Posted By: TAFKAP

Here's the problem....any legitimate information he gave to the previously uninformed watcher will now drive that person to the Infowars website. There, they will see about all the stupid conspiracies he vomits out, an will likely turn off a previously receptive person. Contrails, 9/11 inside job crap, Bilderberg conspiracies, and other stupidity are the biggest distractions to Jones's message. It doesn't help that his followers are just as looney.


Go take a look at the website and the articles look very similar to anything found on Breitbart, WND, or Front Page Mag. The majority of the content is pro Constitution and anti tyrannical government and a host of other topics related to issues that most on this forum should be able to support. Personal liberty is not for everyone.


 Originally Posted By: TAFKAP
Also, the aftermath of the interview, through distribution by Drudge et al. is what's garnering the watchers......it's not like Piers Morgan's show has any significant ratings.

The interview is entertaining and was piquing the interest of many before Drudge chose to headline his page. Jones was placed on the show to try to stimulate some interest in a failing show. He was initially scheduled to debate Alan Dershowitz with Morgan as moderator. Essentially a 2 on 1 debate, like the Candy Crowley debate but Dershowitz backed out last minute and Morgan went at it alone. Piers is spinning today, but he had it handed to him last night.
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#3115015 - 01/08/13 05:29 PM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: TAFKAP]
Coach
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 Originally Posted By: TAFKAP
 Originally Posted By: de novo
 Originally Posted By: infoman jr.
I agreed with Jones, but his delivery was horrible imo. I don't think he did us any favors with that one.


I disagree. Whether you like his delivery or not he went out on CNN with the intention to get out as much information as possible in spite of the network's desire to drive the debate. Also, the attention and youtube watches he receives today will be many times more than those who tuned in to the show.

His intention was to raise awareness for a variety of liberty issues, increase the exposure of himself and his http://www.infowars.com website, and intimidate Piers Morgan.

Mission accomplished.


Here's the problem....any legitimate information he gave to the previously uninformed watcher will now drive that person to the Infowars website. There, they will see about all the stupid conspiracies he vomits out, an will likely turn off a previously receptive person. Contrails, 9/11 inside job crap, Bilderberg conspiracies, and other stupidity are the biggest distractions to Jones's message. It doesn't help that his followers are just as looney.

Also, the aftermath of the interview, through distribution by Drudge et al. is what's garnering the watchers......it's not like Piers Morgan's show has any significant ratings.


Why do you think the producers of that show picked this guy for the show...they always pick someone that knows quite a bit but can't deliver it in Hollywood style. Conservatives are always shown on TV with spelling and grammar mistakes in their signs when they protest, etc. I appreciate their fortitude but honestly, they are not doing us a favor. Most libs are educated (with their daddy's money), polished (with their daddy's money) and well honed for confrontational debates...Many times...we are not...We seem to resort to fisticuff type retorts..."just try to take my guns"..."you'll have to pry my guns from my cold dead hands"...all emotional stuff instead of helping


Edited by Coach (01/08/13 05:31 PM)
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#3115150 - 01/08/13 07:06 PM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: de novo]
stickler
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I cant stand him
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#3115298 - 01/08/13 08:25 PM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: stickler]
TNDeerGuy
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Alex Jones is a complete whack-job, just as much as Piers Morgan is a pompous-a%# %*!?&! Jones message and figures are absolutely spot-on, but he even turned me off with his delivery—I could only imagine what someone felt that is on the fence? This entire interview was no accident, there is a valid reason why Morgan had him on...and he was successful in his demonstration of people that appear to be "off" and why he believes further gun control measures should be started.
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#3115353 - 01/08/13 08:45 PM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: de novo]
BigSatt
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Fellers, as I see it, you either are for someone speaking up for our rights....or you are not. Whether you agree with their stance on other issues or not.

Kinda like the gun control issue itself. You are either for gun control....or you are not.

"But, but, but, I'm against gun control, but I just don't see why we have to have high capacity mags?..."

Sorry dude. If that's your stance, then you ARE for gun control.

I'm against ANY loss of liberty, or portion thereof, as defined by the Constitution.
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#3115513 - 01/08/13 10:05 PM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: BigSatt]
de novo
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 Originally Posted By: Coach


Why do you think the producers of that show picked this guy for the show...they always pick someone that knows quite a bit but can't deliver it in Hollywood style. Conservatives are always shown on TV with spelling and grammar mistakes in their signs when they protest, etc. I appreciate their fortitude but honestly, they are not doing us a favor. Most libs are educated (with their daddy's money), polished (with their daddy's money) and well honed for confrontational debates...Many times...we are not...We seem to resort to fisticuff type retorts..."just try to take my guns"..."you'll have to pry my guns from my cold dead hands"...all emotional stuff instead of helping


He was selected because he started a deport Piers Morgan petition that has received over 100,000 signatures on white house.gov
Piers Morgan is about to have his showed moved to late night and he and his producers are desperate for publicity and ratings. He was supposed to debate a lawyer about gun control and Piers was going to gang up on him but the other guest cancelled last minute. They had been publicizing the Jones appearance and decided to wing it.

So according to you liberals/democrats are well spoken, educated people that are not emotional, really??? I guess they have a hardworking, patriotic, non-government handout stereotype as well.



 Originally Posted By: TNDeerGuy
Alex Jones is a complete whack-job, just as much as Piers Morgan is a pompous-a%# %*!?&! Jones message and figures are absolutely spot-on, but he even turned me off with his delivery—I could only imagine what someone felt that is on the fence? This entire interview was no accident, there is a valid reason why Morgan had him on...and he was successful in his demonstration of people that appear to be "off" and why he believes further gun control measures should be started.
.

With his delivery? His delivery is what got his points across. If It was up to Morgan the entire interview would have been about the 35 gun deaths in the UK and shooting elementary kids with M4s. Morgan has talked over and insulted his last two gun rights advocates on his show. He ended the Pratt interview by telling him he was an idiot and an unbelievably stupid man who didn't care about kids being shot.

A 15 minute clip is linked where an anti gunner is put in his place by a 2nd Amendment advocate and you take the the time to criticize the delivery of the guy actively trying to stand up for our Constitution. It's unlikely you would approve of the delivery of any of our Founding Fathers, either. Another bunch of whack jobs who stood up for freedom.

Here's a video you'll probably enjoy more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RC4JJWUtzkc&feature=youtube_gdata_player




 Originally Posted By: BigSatt

You are either for gun control....or you are not.

I'm against ANY loss of liberty, or portion thereof, as defined by the Constitution.


In all likelihood the wisest two posts on the forum tonight.
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#3115530 - 01/08/13 10:30 PM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: de novo]
AndyW
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I've seen enough loud mouthed lefty communist whackos like James Carville, Bill Maher and Howard Dean run over the top of people they were interviewing. Alex Jones passion for the issue was refreshing to me. For once snide, condescending, arrogant talking points direct from Stalin got told off.

Does anyone think Bob Dole could've done a better job against Piers?
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#3115574 - 01/08/13 11:22 PM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: AndyW]
Grizzly Johnson
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 Originally Posted By: AndyW
I've seen enough loud mouthed lefty communist whackos like James Carville, Bill Maher and Howard Dean run over the top of people they were interviewing. Alex Jones passion for the issue was refreshing to me. For once snide, condescending, arrogant talking points direct from Stalin got told off.


x2
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#3115587 - 01/08/13 11:56 PM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: de novo]
TNDeerGuy
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 Originally Posted By: de novo




 Originally Posted By: TNDeerGuy
Alex Jones is a complete whack-job, just as much as Piers Morgan is a pompous-a%# %*!?&! Jones message and figures are absolutely spot-on, but he even turned me off with his delivery—I could only imagine what someone felt that is on the fence? This entire interview was no accident, there is a valid reason why Morgan had him on...and he was successful in his demonstration of people that appear to be "off" and why he believes further gun control measures should be started.
.

With his delivery? His delivery is what got his points across. If It was up to Morgan the entire interview would have been about the 35 gun deaths in the UK and shooting elementary kids with M4s. Morgan has talked over and insulted his last two gun rights advocates on his show. He ended the Pratt interview by telling him he was an idiot and an unbelievably stupid man who didn't care about kids being shot.

A 15 minute clip is linked where an anti gunner is put in his place by a 2nd Amendment advocate and you take the the time to criticize the delivery of the guy actively trying to stand up for our Constitution. It's unlikely you would approve of the delivery of any of our Founding Fathers, either. Another bunch of whack jobs who stood up for freedom.

Here's a video you'll probably enjoy more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RC4JJWUtzkc&feature=youtube_gdata_player




I've seen the Larry Platt interview before and it was much more effective at making Morgan look like an idiotic pin-head that had nothing left in his quiver except insults and name calling—Mr. Platt connected to those in the middle. I completely agree with message Alex Jones was giving and I stand behind that all the way—even to the death should it come to that. However, the yelling, screaming, ranting and raving made Jones look like a raving madman that is on the verge of going postal himself—that is what Piers Morgan was trying to bring out of him and he was successful—that entire "debate" was calculated and designed. A calm, in-control, fact-filled, rational debate from Alex Jones' point-of-view would have been much more effective. He had the facts and data right there to support our stance, but the conspiracy theories along with his out-of-control manner totally over-shadowed those facts and data. You'll never convince the hard-line Liberals to change their mind—it is the people that are on the fence that you have to sway to your side of the argument, and the manner in which Jones delivered his message he did not sway anyone....just provided more ammunition to the hard-line left as they will use people like the seemingly out-of-control Jones as their poster child. Rule number one in debating....know and be aware of your audience and deliver in a manner that they can relate to—Jones failed....sorry. If you get in the pen with a pig your both gonna get dirty....the pig just likes it more.
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#3115782 - 01/09/13 07:48 AM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: TNDeerGuy]
infoman jr.
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This is how it should've gone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxNenz7q_eY

If you agree with the speaker before they begin and he starts yelling, you fist pump and cheer. But if you're an objective listener on the fence about the issue, and you listen to Jones yell and rant, he instantly loses credibility whether or not he presents facts.
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#3115813 - 01/09/13 08:18 AM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: infoman jr.]
Stalkhunter
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I will give you all one thing,I will give you all one thing, divide and Conquer, The left is doing it now—just look at us on this site, it is very evident the left are being successful."
Jones weather you like him or not has been on this for the last 15 years. Has been right on a lot of issues weather you want to admit it or not period. If he wasnt they would not even bat an eye over this guy. There are so many non main stream news talking the same thing and all have started up after him. No matter how you feel, if we dont stand together soon they will win the battle, The of passing the gun ban and the war will start.

But the issue is this They are coming after the guns and us period. As it has been stated by a special forces Gen. The video I posted last night and I am sure most of you so called true conservitives balked at that too. Wait till this Obama care goes into full force.

Well lets see so far they pushed back the micro chipping till 2015 why they dont have the guns, they pushed back manditory Vac till 2015 why the dont have the guns. They also do not have the Private army in place yet, why they dont have the guns. Plus the best saying of all out of the Traitors mouth you cant control the people till you control the health care and have the guns.

So when we cant come together and stand our ground they will get the guns. Thank God our Founding Fathers had more Balls then we do. If they didn't this country would have never got off the Ground.

I started my research 8 years ago, not long after 911. I think alot here need to get on it now. I dont care what you think of me but As i stated many times.

I TOOK AN OATH OF OFFICE WHEN I WENT INTO THE MARINE CORPS AND IT STILL BURNS IN EVERY BREATH I TAKE. I WILL DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION FROM ALL ENEMIES FORIEGN AND DOMESTIC.

UNITE OR FALL. WHAT DO YOU STAND FOR.

I will not let my Great Uncles that fought IN WWII and one who was a war hero have died invien or be dishonored by me for not defending the Constitution or the people of this Country.

My rant


Edited by NyTransplant (01/09/13 09:51 AM)
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#3115814 - 01/09/13 08:19 AM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: infoman jr.]
Stalkhunter
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 Originally Posted By: infoman jr.
This is how it should've gone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxNenz7q_eY

If you agree with the speaker before they begin and he starts yelling, you fist pump and cheer. But if you're an objective listener on the fence about the issue, and you listen to Jones yell and rant, he instantly loses credibility whether or not he presents facts.


I love Jesse
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#3115842 - 01/09/13 08:43 AM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: Stalkhunter]
TNDeerGuy
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I don't think any of us are divided on the issue, in fact we are all strongly in the same corner; however, we are differing on how the issue is presented—especially in Jones' case. The anti-gun crowd's argumnent is 99% emotional based, unlike our pro-gun case which is backed up with valid facts and figures—not to mention Constitutional Rights. It would be wise to stick with facts and figures for now and leave the wild emotions at the door as facts and figures will beat emotion based arguments most of the time. There maybe a time for acting like Jones, but that time most certainly is not now.
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#3115870 - 01/09/13 09:02 AM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: Stalkhunter]
Stalkhunter
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 Originally Posted By: NyTransplant
guess i got censored hmmm


Let me clear the air here this comment was not pointed at a mod or the owners before anyone start running my PM's Up. So lets be clear on another issues, my opinions are my opinions. When i say divide and Conquer yes I believe it to be true.. When one bit of our freedoms are stripped away and yo agree with it they have divided us and Conquered.


Edited by NyTransplant (01/09/13 09:03 AM)
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#3115902 - 01/09/13 09:25 AM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: de novo]
TAFKAP
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 Originally Posted By: de novo

The interview is entertaining and was piquing the interest of many before Drudge chose to headline his page. Jones was placed on the show to try to stimulate some interest in a failing show. He was initially scheduled to debate Alan Dershowitz with Morgan as moderator. Essentially a 2 on 1 debate, like the Candy Crowley debate but Dershowitz backed out last minute and Morgan went at it alone. Piers is spinning today, but he had it handed to him last night.


I quit going to InfoWars YEARS ago because it was so over-the-top and ridiculous. For every legitimate article, there are 10 stupid ones. And even the legitimate ones (like Jones's appearance with Piers) are so interspersed with crap, that it's just undigestible. Yes, Alex Jones is a personal liberty Conservative. Unfortunately, he focuses on the imaginary boogeymen "threats" more than the real-life legitimate ones.

And as far as entertaining, yes, it was funny. I got a laugh and enjoyed seeing Piers squirm. But it wasn't a good interview. Jones's mission isn't to argue the conservative cause...it's to stir up controversy, drive people to his website, and scare people into buying "survival kits", bumper stickers, and website subscriptions.

His method was a purely liberal one. Shout down, defer, and throw in unrelated deflections. Alex Jones didn't win the argumen. He shut down his oppponent by proving to the public what a nutjub he was. It's just like seeing an interview with Uncle Ted. Sure...it gets everyone fired up and cheering the guy. We all agree with what he stands for, but his message and its delivery only reinforce the liberal stereotype of off-kilter whackjobs. Piers didn't lose the debate...he quit talking because he was dealing with an irrational madman that wouldnt' shut his yap.
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#3115906 - 01/09/13 09:28 AM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: TNDeerGuy]
TAFKAP
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 Originally Posted By: TNDeerGuy
I don't think any of us are divided on the issue, in fact we are all strongly in the same corner; however, we are differing on how the issue is presented—especially in Jones' case. The anti-gun crowd's argumnent is 99% emotional based, unlike our pro-gun case which is backed up with valid facts and figures—not to mention Constitutional Rights. It would be wise to stick with facts and figures for now and leave the wild emotions at the door as facts and figures will beat emotion based arguments most of the time. There maybe a time for acting like Jones, but that time most certainly is not now.


^^^THIS^^^
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#3115911 - 01/09/13 09:33 AM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: TAFKAP]
TennesseeRains
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I didn't watch because, well, I don't like Piers Morgan - nor his political views...and I think Alex Jones, while I agree with some amount of what he says, is a nutcase overall.
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#3115914 - 01/09/13 09:34 AM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: de novo]
rabbit hunter
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Piers is a moroon.........
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#3115942 - 01/09/13 09:47 AM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: Stalkhunter]
in the dog house!
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Say what you want to about Alex Jones, but if you do the research he predicted 9-11 one year before it happened. Yes he approach is over the top and I agree he isn't helping the people that are on the fence. Do the research on him and you will see he has hit the nail on the head many, many times. If he could get a good spokes man or woman to push his points in a more professional manner his points could reach the people on the fence and have them fall on the pro 2nd amendment American people's side of the gun debate.
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#3115956 - 01/09/13 09:54 AM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: rabbit hunter]
in the dog house!
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 Originally Posted By: rabbit hunter
Piers is a moroon.........



Couldn't agree more, he skirts the true facts of the gun issues. I wish I knew how money he was paid to push this agenda. Sold his soul to the devil no doubt. Now its time he gets booted back to the rock he crawled out from under and live in his gun free country and let someone across the big pond put a bat to his head. JMO
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#3115959 - 01/09/13 09:55 AM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: in the dog house!]
TAFKAP
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Let me get back to you. I've never done research on Alex Jones, mainly because of his obviously deficient physics skills.

Predicted 9/11? I'm guessing it was something alon gthe lines of "the DoD is going to test how to bring down large buildings!"....followed by a "SEE! TOLD YA SO!" a year later. Nostradomus never knew what he was writing about, and even the weathermen get it right once in a while.

Chem trails? Puhlease
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#3115975 - 01/09/13 10:08 AM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: TAFKAP]
in the dog house!
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Nope nothing like that. But judging from your post you already have your mind made up about him. Give me a few min. and I will post a link and you can judge for yourself. Like i said you have to over look his passion for his beliefs to see his message, and like i said, I agree he is over the top.

Edited by in the dog house! (01/09/13 10:09 AM)
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#3116000 - 01/09/13 10:17 AM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: in the dog house!]
in the dog house!
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88lX2R3IFcQ


ok heres the link, take 10 minutes and check it out before you judge.
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#3116102 - 01/09/13 11:20 AM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: in the dog house!]
TAFKAP
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Yes, my mind was made up years ago. And everything I have looked at over the course of the past half hour did nothing but solidify my position. I can speak in vague generalities about numerous happenings, then point to something close enough a year later and tell you "HA! TOLD YOU SO!"

Jones's conspiracies have been debunked time and time again, but for some reason, people latch on to his theories as fact.
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#3116108 - 01/09/13 11:26 AM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: TAFKAP]
in the dog house!
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To each his own...... Good luck in your journey and hope all works out for you.
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#3116128 - 01/09/13 11:50 AM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: in the dog house!]
TAFKAP
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It's working just fine. I don't nervously twitch while muttering "Megabank Conspiracy", you'll never hear the word "Illuminati" leave my lips, and since I understand physics, I know 9/11 was perpetrated by a group of fanatical Muslim terrorists.

It doesn't take but about a 1/2 ounce of common sense to see through Alex Jones's BS. And it takes even less than that to realize that the Conservative movement needs (and deserves) a more coherent, logical, and sane person as its spokesman. Anyone that says otherwise fails to see that Piers Morgan, although "defeated" in this debate, actually won the war. In his eyes, and the eyes of thirty people that watch his show, Alex Jones is just one of millions of nutjob gun owners. Why do you suppose Wayne La Pierre hasn't been on his show?

Compare Alex Jones's performance with that of GoA's Larry Pratt. When snooty little Piers resorts to calling Larry "a stupid man", you know that not only was he defeated, but he made himself look like an [censored]. Once you come unglued and speak out of emotion, you have lost your case (and your audience). This interview was his redemption. Nobody talks about how Piers had his [censored] handed to him by a firmly logical and well-grounded case a couple weeks ago. All you see are words like "deranged", "delusional", "nutjob", and "lunatic" when you Google Piers Morgan and Alex Jones. Headlines aren't mentioning Larry Pratt. The propoganda machine points to Alex Jones.

And there you go, my friends. Alex Jones is now your spokesman. Are you happy that "at least someone's doing something"? 2 steps forward, 9 steps back.
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#3116137 - 01/09/13 12:01 PM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: TAFKAP]
in the dog house!
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"I know 9/11 was perpetrated by a group of fanatical Muslim terrorists."

I feel sorry for you if you truly believe that. When have you ever know a plane crash ( much less an attack ) to start to be cleaned up 3 days after it happened. They had front end loaders and dump trucks hauling off the debris in the blink of an eye. They always rope it off and investigate it for weeks. And never have any steel structures on earth ever collapsed due to fire. Much less as with building 7, fallen into its own foot print and wasn't even struck by any plane. Believe what you want but 2 and 2 always make 4, they can tell you it makes 5 all day every day till you believe it. I guess you do.......... And none of this info came via Alex Jones FYI


Edited by in the dog house! (01/09/13 12:04 PM)
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#3116283 - 01/09/13 01:22 PM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: in the dog house!]
TAFKAP
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Don't even bother trying to explain the conspiracy. I've seen it all a hundred times. But the difference between me and the armchair conspiracists out there is that I obtained a degree in structural engineering, and I have put that education to use on a daily basis for the past 8 years as a structural engineer. So suffice it to say, I have a very firm grasp on what holds a building together, an intimate knowledge of the properties of structural steel, and the liberal assumptions used by the conspiracists. I also have diligently investigated the counter-claims of numerous reports (including the incredibly thorough report of "Popular Mechanics") debunking the conspiracy down to the last nut. The only people out there that still hang on to that poorly constructed conspiracy are those who are easily manipulated by internet videos and/or people that don't even have the slightest grasp of the principles of physics. So don't condescend to me about "feeling sorry" for me for basing my findings on sound reason and educated knowledge 2 + 2 always equals 4, but come back to me when you can comprehend the yield point of structural steel, the soil properties of engineered foundations, and Newtonian physics.

But back to the case in point, Jon Stewart closed his liberal rant last night with clips from Alex Jones. He spent nearly 10 minutes highlighting his liberal gun control stance peppered with a number of tips of the hat to reasonable 2A activists. But when it comes down to his closing, it's Alex Jones foaming at the mouth....so the "Daily Show's" high & mighty assertion is that 2A activists are scared only of imaginary future Hitlers.

I'm not going to post the link, as it's typical "Daily Show" language, so look it up yourself.
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#3116313 - 01/09/13 01:44 PM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: TAFKAP]
in the dog house!
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Like i said that info didn't come from info wars it came straight off of the news a few days after the " attack " . Just like when they stated they wouldn't show the footage of it ( the attack ) anymore so as to not upset the public.
The Empire state building didn't fall after the B-17 hit it. Please tell me in your infinite wisdom of steel structures ONE building anywhere on the planet that has fallen due to fire.

You being an engineer explains a lot of your beliefs on this subject ...... been dealing with your type my whole career, always looks good on paper but doesn't hold water in the real world.
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#3116357 - 01/09/13 02:21 PM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: in the dog house!]
TAFKAP
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Well since you're such an expert, I guess there's no need to explain you the difference in a lost B-25 (not a B-17) lumbering about Manhattan trying to land (whose piston engines couldn't push it past 300mph) and a fully fueled Boeing 767 with it's throttles firewalled. Or there's no use in pointing out that the main structural column support of the ESB is contained within its thick concrete walls, thereby greatly shielding it from the impact of a B-25. But I'm sure you've already used Newton's 2nd Law to directly correlate a 48,000 lb airplane traveling under 200 mph to a 300,000 lb airplane traveling faster than 400 mph.

But you're right....no modern steel structure has ever been brought down solely by fire. However, very few steel structures of any type can stay erect with a large portion of their structural columns completely severed. Never mind a structure that was so badly damaged by impact, only to succumb to additional fires exceeding 700°F. So utilizing your superior intellect, I can most certainly see why you see frustration in "my type" so much.

But I'm sure you've already thought those things through.

But let me tell you about "my type". We've been dealing with "your type" for a long time, as well. "Your type" is generally a self-important blowhard that fails to see the big picture. "Your type" loves to latch onto the fact that one time, you were right. "Your type" loves to make a bunch of noise about how much smarter you are than the "engineers", and whether you're right or not, will let everyone know about your level of superiority. Right as you may be sometimes, "your type" can never accept that they might be wrong, and faced with contrary information will continually blow your stack showing your true colors.
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#3116404 - 01/09/13 02:46 PM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: TAFKAP]
in the dog house!
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LMBO!!!! So in your infinite wisdom what brought down WTC7 that was not hit by any plane, only fire. But clearly to " my type " was imploded.

Edited by in the dog house! (01/09/13 02:47 PM)
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#3116410 - 01/09/13 02:51 PM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: in the dog house!]
in the dog house!
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LMAO !!! I wasn't blowing my stack \:D but judging by your comment you clearly are sir. Take your blood pressure meds and take it easy.
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#3116447 - 01/09/13 03:22 PM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: in the dog house!]
TAFKAP
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10-4
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#3116616 - 01/09/13 04:58 PM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: in the dog house!]
Crosshairy
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I'm glad Jones support the 2A, but I agree that the target audience includes those who are "swing voters." Sometimes winning a shouting match has unintended consequences. Hopefully that whole ordeal did more good than harm.

 Originally Posted By: in the dog house!

And never have any steel structures on earth ever collapsed due to fire.


You are the second person I've heard mention this very odd statistic. I'm not trying to pick on you, but how in the world could someone document such a thing? Is it possible that the actual statistic you are thinking of is something like "no steel-reinforced skyscrapers" or something? It's absolutely false that no steel structures have fallen.

I'm a chemical engineer in an oil refinery and am also a certified industrial firefighter (went to a bunch of classes after joining the volunteer department, not that big of a deal). At any rate, I have seen numerous videos where a hydrocarbon-fueled fire (be it jet fuel, diesel, propane, or whatever) caused a steel structure to yield and collapse. It happened within my own plant last August, and this wasn't even a building with a giant, towering hulk of material on top like a skyscraper (it was ~ 100 feet tall). Nor were these structures impacted by gigantic aircraft traveling at hundreds of miles an hour to weaken them from the get-go.

I'm not getting into all the other details of the 9/11 stuff, because I'm certainly not privy to the real info, just what other people cough up for us to sift through. I just wanted to set that one particular point straight.
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#3116637 - 01/09/13 05:16 PM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: Crosshairy]
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http://www.wtc7.net/buildingfires.html

http://www.wtc7.net/toc.html

This is an entire website devoted to WTC 7 collapse. I'll let the experts debunk the information.
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#3116757 - 01/09/13 06:14 PM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: de novo]
TAFKAP
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It's a pretty lame website that doesn't offer much beyond anecdotal observations and opinions. It doesn't address the structural forces induced in a wounded building, nor the myriads of other factors that contributed. Perhaps the collapse of two of the largest structures in the world imparted forces on the building that will never be understood. But it's easier to discount the conspiracy, rather than proving a case with long-destroyed evidence.

1) No indications of explosions --> AHA! Thermite was used!
2) No indications of extreme heat on any structural members
3) A very improbable and unlikely ability to even strategically place thermite in key structural locations to cause a collapse
4) Visible building deformation prior to the collapse

Unfortunately, it's inherent in human nature to disregard the obvious and look for more sinister and deceptive plots, than to just accept that your eyes saw exactly what they saw.
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#3116905 - 01/09/13 07:39 PM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: TAFKAP]
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 Originally Posted By: TAFKAP

Unfortunately, it's inherent in human nature to disregard the obvious and look for more sinister and deceptive plots, than to just accept that your eyes saw exactly what they saw.


It's inherent in human behavior to discern the truth. The last thing I want to believe is that my government played any part in a sinister and deceptive plot.

I have no problem questioning every aspect of an event which led to a disastrous foreign policy and the erosion of our constitutional rights here at home. Instead we are given the state's official story and any variation is labeled a whack job conspiracy. I'll let the experts debate whether our government played any role in 9/11. What is not up for debate is the fact that our government, both Republicans and Democrats, have been using 9/11 for over a decade to trample on the Constitution and eliminate personal freedom.

Anyone who opposed the Patriot Act and any other freedom grabbing bills (libertarians) was labeled a paranoid, unAmerican whack job. A decade later most of their predictions about how the law would be used against Americans are coming true.
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#3117196 - 01/10/13 02:04 AM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: infoman jr.]
BamaProud
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 Originally Posted By: infoman jr.


If you agree with the speaker before they begin and he starts yelling, you fist pump and cheer. But if you're an objective listener on the fence about the issue, and you listen to Jones yell and rant, he instantly loses credibility whether or not he presents facts.


spot on.
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#3117379 - 01/10/13 08:28 AM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: BamaProud]
Crosshairy
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So I was right - they are saying "steel framed buildings".

The stuff inside of a typical office building is mainly combustible - a low density of flammable objects. Unless you build a steel-framed building with a better (worse from a safety standpoint) combustion heat source, you are very unlikely to have problems with the structural integrity.

Hydrocarbons are much more energy-dense and create hotter temperatures. Most jet fuel has a minimum flash point of 107 degrees or so, meaning that it takes very little heat to push it over the edge of being flammable. Most folks have experience with burning gasoline in some amount. Jet fuel does not burn quite so readily.

Soaking a combustible surface (say, two floors of an office building filled with furniture and other plastic stuff) with jet fuel will boost the flame temperature while extending the duration of the burn relative to a pool fire.

A pool fire by itself (meaning an accumulation on the ground like a large puddle) of sufficient volume has been known to cause structural steel to sag and yield in industrial environments. I've seen too many refinery safety videos with this type of content to count. If we add in the extra stuff to burn, the scenario becomes even more believable.

All that said, the statistic that it's only happened that one time with a steel-frame building is not terribly significant (if it's even true). It just means that we don't normally put steel-framed buildings beside stuff that burns really hot. Steel-Based heater, distillation towers, and pipe racks have all fell over, therefore it is possible.


Edited by Crosshairy (01/10/13 08:30 AM)
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#3117548 - 01/10/13 10:27 AM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: Crosshairy]
in the dog house!
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Still doesn't explain how WTC7 fell from just fire, and no jet fuel there. Yall just keep talking about WTC 1 and 2
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#3117579 - 01/10/13 10:50 AM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: Crosshairy]
TAFKAP
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 Originally Posted By: Crosshairy
So I was right - they are saying "steel framed buildings".

The stuff inside of a typical office building is mainly combustible - a low density of flammable objects. Unless you build a steel-framed building with a better (worse from a safety standpoint) combustion heat source, you are very unlikely to have problems with the structural integrity.

Hydrocarbons are much more energy-dense and create hotter temperatures. Most jet fuel has a minimum flash point of 107 degrees or so, meaning that it takes very little heat to push it over the edge of being flammable. Most folks have experience with burning gasoline in some amount. Jet fuel does not burn quite so readily.

Soaking a combustible surface (say, two floors of an office building filled with furniture and other plastic stuff) with jet fuel will boost the flame temperature while extending the duration of the burn relative to a pool fire.

A pool fire by itself (meaning an accumulation on the ground like a large puddle) of sufficient volume has been known to cause structural steel to sag and yield in industrial environments. I've seen too many refinery safety videos with this type of content to count. If we add in the extra stuff to burn, the scenario becomes even more believable.

All that said, the statistic that it's only happened that one time with a steel-frame building is not terribly significant (if it's even true). It just means that we don't normally put steel-framed buildings beside stuff that burns really hot. Steel-Based heater, distillation towers, and pipe racks have all fell over, therefore it is possible.


Then, put all that crap 700' in the air whree the wind is blowing through some relatively small holes.

Blast furnace anyone?
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#3117581 - 01/10/13 10:52 AM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: TAFKAP]
in the dog house!
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Ummmm building 7 was NOT 700 feet up, why are you evading WTC7 falling like a sack of taters from just fire.........
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#3117583 - 01/10/13 10:53 AM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: in the dog house!]
in the dog house!
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TAFCAP...... your PM box is full Sir
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#3117594 - 01/10/13 11:01 AM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: in the dog house!]
TAFKAP
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Here you go....peruse these at your leisure.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/engineering/architecture/4278874

http://www.debunking911.com/WTC7.htm
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#3117595 - 01/10/13 11:01 AM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: in the dog house!]
TAFKAP
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 Originally Posted By: in the dog house!
TAFCAP...... your PM box is full Sir


Huh....not used to that. Give me a minute.
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#3117627 - 01/10/13 11:25 AM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: TAFKAP]
de novo
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 Originally Posted By: TAFKAP
It's a pretty lame website that doesn't offer much beyond anecdotal observations and opinions. ... Perhaps the collapse of two of the largest structures in the world imparted forces on the building that will never be understood. But it's easier to discount the conspiracy, rather than proving a case with long-destroyed evidence.


So unfathomable, mystery forces are an acceptable explanation for an engineer but anecdotal observations about how skyscrapers have been affected by fires in the past is conspiracy?
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#3117718 - 01/10/13 12:34 PM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: de novo]
TAFKAP
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There's a difference in "unfathomable, mystery forces" and the type you know are there, yet can't quantify.

Let's use a tornado as an example.....there are documented cases of 2x4's puncturing materials that would've otherwise been impenetrable by a piece of treated pine. Nobody has ever explained the randomness or the otherwise impossibility of the event, yet it happens. Just because you don't see the logic in it, doesn't mean it can't happen.

But until another multi-million ton pair of buildings collapses, it'd be hard to determine what sort of shaking forces would've been generated in WTC7. Nobody in the world can say, "Well, after Tower 2 collapsed, Girder H-47 experienced 937kN of force, which was sufficient enough for it to shake off its supports." You look at it and go, "DAAAMN, that bigass building just knocked a bunch of crap over!"

And on that note, there is not a single other skyscraper fire that can even come close to mimicing or modeling what was witnessed on 9/11.
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#3118668 - 01/11/13 01:09 AM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: TAFKAP]
BamaProud
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Where is my tin foil hat? Its unbelievable what some folks (want to) believe.
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#3118845 - 01/11/13 07:50 AM Re: Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan [Re: infoman jr.]
Slaughter-06
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 Originally Posted By: infoman jr.
I agreed with Jones, but his delivery was horrible imo. I don't think he did us any favors with that one.



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