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#3106298 - 01/02/13 05:13 PM Proof of White Flash Scare
gil1
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I really can't stand the horrible quality or red flash and black flash game cam photos. And I get a ton of quality photos with my white flash cams. I have also seen some animals that tolerate a white flash well. But here's proof that it scares the poop out of most critters.

I know you're loving this, BSK. \:\)


Fox scare - http://s210.beta.photobucket.com/user/gillackey/media/FoxFlashScare_zps9aa9feff.mp4.html

Coyote Scare - http://s210.beta.photobucket.com/user/gillackey/media/CoyoteFlashScare_zps0fa3bcee.mp4.html

Coyote scare - http://s210.beta.photobucket.com/user/gillackey/media/CoyoteFlashScare2_zps1716d4aa.mp4.html
_________________________
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#3106310 - 01/02/13 05:26 PM Re: Proof of White Flash Scare [Re: gil1]
Master Chief
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I've actually gotten more IR scares than whiteflash scares
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#3106319 - 01/02/13 05:33 PM Re: Proof of White Flash Scare [Re: Master Chief]
gil1
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 Originally Posted By: Master Chief
I've actually gotten more IR scares than whiteflash scares


And I've heard that, too. If I had an IR camera, I would do that experiment.
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It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

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#3106365 - 01/02/13 05:56 PM Re: Proof of White Flash Scare [Re: gil1]
cecil30-30
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IR scares deer way more...hands down.I switched to all IR cams a few summers ago,and my picture numbers droped by 3/4 and all my mature buck pics stopped.OF all the deer pics I did get,over half was looking directly at the cam.I sold them all and went back to white flash cams.The way I see it is,a deer see's the white flash,they can relate it to lightening from a thunderstorm.They see a glowing red object,there isn't nothing natural about that.
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#3106450 - 01/02/13 06:49 PM Re: Proof of White Flash Scare [Re: cecil30-30]
gil1
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Hey, is anyone having trouble viewing the videos? Someone said Photobucket was just buffering but wouldn't play them.
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It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#3106619 - 01/02/13 07:52 PM Re: Proof of White Flash Scare [Re: gil1]
monsterbuck07
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Looks good to me man.

Make a white flash cam with some rumblin and they will just assume its thunder!

There's my million dollar idea!!
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#3106687 - 01/02/13 08:20 PM Re: Proof of White Flash Scare [Re: monsterbuck07]
Master Chief
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Posts: 2603
Loc: Henderson County

sleepy Online
 Originally Posted By: monsterbuck07
Looks good to me man.

Make a white flash cam with some rumblin and they will just assume its thunder!

There's my million dollar idea!!


Thats a perty dern good idear!!
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#3106931 - 01/02/13 10:13 PM Re: Proof of White Flash Scare [Re: Master Chief]
Boone 58
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\:D
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#3106991 - 01/03/13 12:47 AM Re: Proof of White Flash Scare [Re: Boone 58]
Crow Terminator
TnDeer Old Timer
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Me too fellas...after trying the latest and greatest IR and black flash cams...I'm selling and trading them off for white flash cams again. They may spook a bit but at least you can tell what you're looking at in the night pics instead of having smeared and blurry "whatizits" like you get with the IRs. I set my IR up on a trail and set the controls to take a burst of pics every time it was triggered. I was getting pics of deer that would totally stop..
do the old headbob and then be gone in a 3 pic burst.

I got one of FiremanJim's white flash cams a week or so ago and have had it out on the same trail I had the IR setup on. Interested to see what I get on there that has just been blank and blurred pics on my IRs.

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#3107264 - 01/03/13 08:28 AM Re: Proof of White Flash Scare [Re: Crow Terminator]
Bayou Buck
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We went to IR cameras this year and I am very frustrated. I never had a problem with the white flash. This year most images were blurred because they are bolting when the IR lights come on. Mainly it happens when they are right next to the camera. I am switching back to cheap white flash again.
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#3107351 - 01/03/13 09:33 AM Re: Proof of White Flash Scare [Re: Master Chief]
Wes Parrish
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 Originally Posted By: Master Chief
I've actually gotten more IR scares than whiteflash scares

x 2

Gil,

I think you would have documented similar results had your white flash cam been an "infrared" red-flash cam. I do believe the red-flash "infrared" can spook more than traditional white flash, while neither will spook some deer, and both will spook other deer.

One thing I noted in your videos is that all animals seemed to be at least "concerned" with what they were seeing and smelling at the location BEFORE the white flash. Had they neither seen nor smelling nothing, they may not have reacted to the white flash, as I believe they may relate it to lightning flashes which they experience often.

But with true black flash cams, I've experienced no game spooking by the flash (or lack of one).

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#3107357 - 01/03/13 09:36 AM Re: Proof of White Flash Scare [Re: Bayou Buck]
Wes Parrish
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Registered: 06/12/02
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 Originally Posted By: Bayou Buck
This year most images were blurred because they are bolting when the IR lights come on.

And THAT has been another big disappointment with both the red-flash and black-flash cams, although you will not see the deer bolting from the invisible black flash (just if they're moving at all, you get a blurry pic).

IMO, most new users to trail cams would be much happier with their experience if they started off with a traditional white-flash homebrew, just a basic model. And totally forget using the red-flash so-called "infrared". When flash spook is a concern, such as having a cam close to a scrape, go with true black flash.

This flash "spooking" is actually more of a subsequent avoidance of walking within a few yards of that particular spot. The deer typically do not leave the area by more than a few yards out of their way. But next time they come thru, they'll commonly "go around" that spot by 20 to 40 yards, often walking behind the cam. So if you're using anything other than true black flash, you need to periodically re-locate your cams because some deer will start "avoiding" walking in front them close enough to trigger a flash.

If you're looking for a good basic "homebrew" cam, many people have been happy with the value they've gotten from FiremanJim's homebrews:
 Originally Posted By: FIREMANJIM
My cheapest unit is $235.00
Go to my website... http://WWW.JTSWildlifeCameras.Com

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#3107782 - 01/03/13 02:50 PM Re: Proof of White Flash Scare [Re: ]
gil1
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 Originally Posted By: bigbuxhunter
 Originally Posted By: gil1
I really can't stand the horrible quality or red flash and black flash game cam photos. And I get a ton of quality photos with my white flash cams. I have also seen some animals that tolerate a white flash well. But here's proof that it scares the poop out of most critters.

I know you're loving this, BSK. \:\)


Fox scare - http://s210.beta.photobucket.com/user/gillackey/media/FoxFlashScare_zps9aa9feff.mp4.html

Coyote Scare - http://s210.beta.photobucket.com/user/gillackey/media/CoyoteFlashScare_zps0fa3bcee.mp4.html

Coyote scare - http://s210.beta.photobucket.com/user/gillackey/media/CoyoteFlashScare2_zps1716d4aa.mp4.html
nothing but red x's for me


Anybody else having this trouble? It came up fine for me.
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

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#3107936 - 01/03/13 04:42 PM Re: Proof of White Flash Scare [Re: gil1]
BSK
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Want to see some IR scare? Watch the first few frames of this video:


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"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3107975 - 01/03/13 05:18 PM Re: Proof of White Flash Scare [Re: BSK]
Wes Parrish
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 Originally Posted By: BSK
Want to see some IR scare? Watch the first few frames of this video:

Yep, but she still stopped a few yards away to look back, noting a new "spot" to avoid. Bet she walked around it only by about that many yards next time she came thru!

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#3107980 - 01/03/13 05:20 PM Re: Proof of White Flash Scare [Re: Wes Parrish]
gil1
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 Originally Posted By: Wes Parrish

One thing I noted in your videos is that all animals seemed to be at least "concerned" with what they were seeing and smelling at the location BEFORE the white flash. Had they neither seen nor smelling nothing, they may not have reacted to the white flash, as I believe they may relate it to lightning flashes which they experience often.


Good point. This camera is in my back yard in urban Nashville, and these animals know the bait station well. They know my scent back there well, too. But two things are interesting.

One, they don't seem at all affected by the black flash cam when it's there solo. They see and smell that just the same as the white flash cams. They are very used to my smell. I don't even try to go scent-free because they get so used to it back there and don't care after a while. They don't even pay the black flash any attention.

Two - The possums and coons have zero reaction to the white flash, making it more obvious when some other animals react poorly to it.
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#3107986 - 01/03/13 05:22 PM Re: Proof of White Flash Scare [Re: gil1]
Wes Parrish
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Gil,

Are your black flash units smaller in size than your white flash ones?

Sometimes the deer are responding to what they see, and most of the older white flash units (and homebrews) are larger in size than the newer black flash models.

I've particularly noticed the deer just stopping and starring at my old Leaf River units (which are HUGE!), even more so when placed on a small tree. And at that point of heightened awareness, ANY out-of-the-ordinary sound or sight can spook them. Is it possible your white flash units are a tad more audible than the newer black flash units?

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#3108002 - 01/03/13 05:34 PM Re: Proof of White Flash Scare [Re: Bayou Buck]
DaveB
10 Point


Registered: 09/03/08
Posts: 3649
Loc: Shelby County

content Online
Weird, the deer on my lease, bucks included, never blinked an eye at my IR cam.
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#3108019 - 01/03/13 05:45 PM Re: Proof of White Flash Scare [Re: Wes Parrish]
gil1
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Registered: 04/06/07
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 Originally Posted By: Wes Parrish
Gil,

Are your black flash units smaller in size than your white flash ones?

Sometimes the deer are responding to what they see, and most of the older white flash units (and homebrews) are larger in size than the newer black flash models.

I've particularly noticed the deer just stopping and starring at my old Leaf River units (which are HUGE!), even more so when placed on a small tree. And at that point of heightened awareness, ANY out-of-the-ordinary sound or sight can spook them. Is it possible your white flash units are a tad more audible than the newer black flash units?


I guess anything's possible, Wes. And yes, my black flash cam is a bit smaller. it's just that these particular animals know exactly where the units are. They sniff them, pee on them, even eat strips of meat off the top of them sometimes. I haven't changed the tree (it's the only suitable one), and my stink is back there all the time.

Now the noise could be something, although I can't hear the units take a photo.

I think they are wary is heyall but will hang out and eat anyway. Unless they see the flash. But then again, I've had a few select yotes who don't give a dern about it.
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#3108024 - 01/03/13 05:47 PM Re: Proof of White Flash Scare [Re: gil1]
gil1
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But don't get me wrong. As much as flash avoidance bothers me, I will never use black or red flash units for anything but experiments. I want and need cameras that do what cameras are supposed to do, take freaking pictures. White flash cams are the only ones that do that to my satisfaction, and I can live with some animals being afraid to jump back in front of the camera. One photo is really all I need, and I usually get several.
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#3108115 - 01/03/13 06:48 PM Re: Proof of White Flash Scare [Re: BSK]
primos32
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Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 841
Loc: Savannah, TN

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
Want to see some IR scare? Watch the first few frames of this video:




I have too many videos just like that one BSK from an IR cam! Thinking about saving up for a black flash.

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#3108776 - 01/04/13 08:08 AM Re: Proof of White Flash Scare [Re: DaveB]
BSK
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 Originally Posted By: DaveB
Weird, the deer on my lease, bucks included, never blinked an eye at my IR cam.


Just remember that there is a big difference between flash "spook" and flash "avoidance." I have seen many instances when visible flash does not "spook" deer (does not make them jump away from the camera). Yet those same deer still display camera "avoidance" (learn not to walk in front of the camera over time). Start using a black-flash camera in those situations, and camera avoidance declines dramatically.

Until a person has tried one of the better black-flash cameras, they generally don't realize how much camera avoidance they are experiencing. Of those I've talked to, 95+% of the people who actually try a good quality black-flash camera admit they make a difference.
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#3108779 - 01/04/13 08:10 AM Re: Proof of White Flash Scare [Re: primos32]
BSK
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 Originally Posted By: primos32
I have too many videos just like that one BSK from an IR cam! Thinking about saving up for a black flash.


Although they are still not "cheap," there are some darn good black-flash cameras on the market this year in the $175-225 range. I suspect we will see even better (and cheaper) black-flash units on the market next year.
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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3108817 - 01/04/13 08:39 AM Re: Proof of White Flash Scare [Re: BSK]
Crosshairy
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Registered: 08/22/06
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I haven't noticed any deer spooking on all the IR pictures I took last year. Perhaps it helped that I put the mineral spot on the off side of the trail from the camera...basically the deer turn slightly away from the camera as they come down the trail towards the mineral lick.

I got lots of side-to-side pictures of deer, but only 1 or 2 small bucks ever noticed the camera enough to look directly at it, and they didn't spook.

Beats me. Strangely enough, I haven't run a single trail cam this year, as I started hunting some out-of-the-way public land a lot more and obviously don't want to leave them out there.
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#3108831 - 01/04/13 08:49 AM Re: Proof of White Flash Scare [Re: Crosshairy]
Crosshairy
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Registered: 08/22/06
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To build upon my previous post...

My particular camera site had a single good trail running past it. I took a hand saw in the early season and cut several saplings alongside the trail to make sure they "stuck to the path" a bit more before hitting the mineral lick and rub tree.

The lick itself was placed beside a small sapling that appeared to be used for scent marking, rubs, and scrapes (my hope was that they would hit that spot for that reason during deer season, even if they had no use for the mineral lick).

The "mini" Moutrie IR came was placed on a tree of diameter greater than the camera, and I picked a tree with a couple of saplings on either side that obscured the side view (in case approaching deer would see it triggered by another deer in front).

I got pictures of deer of various ages, including one buck that appeared to be 3.5 years, a few coyotes, armadillos, skunks, foxes, and "something else" (maybe a mink or weasel?). I got about 70% nocturnal pictures, and none of those appeared to be startled by the camera. Only the coyotes and the young bucks ever even faced the camera to show any interest.

With my luck, next season it will probably run every deer in the area out of there... \:\)
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#3109838 - 01/04/13 09:09 PM Re: Proof of White Flash Scare [Re: BSK]
primos32
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Registered: 12/26/07
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 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: primos32
I have too many videos just like that one BSK from an IR cam! Thinking about saving up for a black flash.


Although they are still not "cheap," there are some darn good black-flash cameras on the market this year in the $175-225 range. I suspect we will see even better (and cheaper) black-flash units on the market next year.


If you don't mind, which ones do you believe are decent cams in that price range?

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#3110143 - 01/05/13 08:23 AM Re: Proof of White Flash Scare [Re: primos32]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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 Originally Posted By: primos32
 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: primos32
I have too many videos just like that one BSK from an IR cam! Thinking about saving up for a black flash.


Although they are still not "cheap," there are some darn good black-flash cameras on the market this year in the $175-225 range. I suspect we will see even better (and cheaper) black-flash units on the market next year.


If you don't mind, which ones do you believe are decent cams in that price range?


The ones I'm recommending right now are:

Moultrie M-80 Black
Covert Black 60
Uway VH200B

Now much of that recommendation comes from other users' reviews. Of the three, I have only used the Uway VH200B (and absolutely love it; I will be buying more of these). I've not been a fan of Moultrie products in the past (poor reliability and poor customer service), but from what I'm hearing, it sounds like Moultire has greatly improved both with the M-80 model. The Covert is of the same quality and reliability as the Bushnell Trophy Cam, although I've heard the Covert's battery holder comparment has some problems and, in my opinion, the pictures from the Covert are a bit fuzzy. The pictures from the VH200B are grainy, but sharp (not fuzzy). Of the three, the Moultrie definitely takes the best pictures with the best illumination. However, another thing I like about the VH200B is the ability to plug in a black-flash flash extender to the camera (and the flash extender is controlled by the settings of the camera). That adds another $80 to the total price, but I'm getting well over 100 feet of illumination using the flash extenders with the VH200B (great for pointing into food plots).

I didn't include the Bushnell Trophy Cam HD in my list because, from what I'm hearing, I believe deer can see (and will react to) the low glow of that camera's illumination.
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#3110234 - 01/05/13 10:05 AM Re: Proof of White Flash Scare [Re: BSK]
Roost 1
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Do you guys that are having problems with deer spooking from cams ever try to put cams above the deer's line of sight??? Also need to make sure your cams arent making audible sounds when they take pics. The old truthcams were bad about making a "clunking" sound.
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#3110276 - 01/05/13 10:41 AM Re: Proof of White Flash Scare [Re: BSK]
primos32
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Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 841
Loc: Savannah, TN

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: primos32
 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: primos32
I have too many videos just like that one BSK from an IR cam! Thinking about saving up for a black flash.


Although they are still not "cheap," there are some darn good black-flash cameras on the market this year in the $175-225 range. I suspect we will see even better (and cheaper) black-flash units on the market next year.


If you don't mind, which ones do you believe are decent cams in that price range?


The ones I'm recommending right now are:

Moultrie M-80 Black
Covert Black 60
Uway VH200B

Now much of that recommendation comes from other users' reviews. Of the three, I have only used the Uway VH200B (and absolutely love it; I will be buying more of these). I've not been a fan of Moultrie products in the past (poor reliability and poor customer service), but from what I'm hearing, it sounds like Moultire has greatly improved both with the M-80 model. The Covert is of the same quality and reliability as the Bushnell Trophy Cam, although I've heard the Covert's battery holder comparment has some problems and, in my opinion, the pictures from the Covert are a bit fuzzy. The pictures from the VH200B are grainy, but sharp (not fuzzy). Of the three, the Moultrie definitely takes the best pictures with the best illumination. However, another thing I like about the VH200B is the ability to plug in a black-flash flash extender to the camera (and the flash extender is controlled by the settings of the camera). That adds another $80 to the total price, but I'm getting well over 100 feet of illumination using the flash extenders with the VH200B (great for pointing into food plots).

I didn't include the Bushnell Trophy Cam HD in my list because, from what I'm hearing, I believe deer can see (and will react to) the low glow of that camera's illumination.


Thanks BSK! I have had the Moultrie M-80 IR since it came out and it has been reliable so far. The deer just see the flash. May have to look into purchasing one of those 3 this spring! Thanks again for the info!

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#3111290 - 01/06/13 07:11 AM Re: Proof of White Flash Scare [Re: Roost 1]
pastorbmp
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Registered: 01/16/06
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 Originally Posted By: Roost 1
Do you guys that are having problems with deer spooking from cams ever try to put cams above the deer's line of sight???


This past season, I started putting my red IR cameras about 6 ft hight and tilting them down slightly. I had zero pictures of deer spooked, and only a very few of them even noticing the light. IF you use red IR cameras, that is the way to go imo.

As much as folks are bashing red IR cameras - they do have their upside - inexpensive and excellent battery life are among the upside.
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#3111353 - 01/06/13 08:51 AM Re: Proof of White Flash Scare [Re: pastorbmp]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
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 Originally Posted By: pastorbmp
As much as folks are bashing red IR cameras - they do have their upside - inexpensive and excellent battery life are among the upside.


I wholeheartedly agree with that pastorbmp. I bash them as a primary camera, but I still have a couple of old ones that work great (Bushnell Trophy Cams, SG550 Scoutguards, etc.). I use them for short-term placement in small food plots. Yes, deer learn to avoid them fairly quickly, but then I move them "somewhere else."
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3111356 - 01/06/13 08:54 AM Re: Proof of White Flash Scare [Re: Roost 1]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 64846
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Roost 1
Do you guys that are having problems with deer spooking from cams ever try to put cams above the deer's line of sight??? Also need to make sure your cams arent making audible sounds when they take pics. The old truthcams were bad about making a "clunking" sound.


That technique (mount high and point down) absolutely will work to reduce camera spook and avoidance with visible flash cameras. But the problem with it is reduced trigger area. Once the camera is pointed downwards, you are basically only covering a "spot on the ground" the deer have to walk through to trigger the camera. Now in certain circumstances that's fine, such as a salt lick, bait pile, or scrape. But it doesn't work so well for covering an "general area" of deer activity.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3112704 - 01/07/13 02:42 PM Re: Proof of White Flash Scare [Re: BSK]
Rick Dillard
4 Point


Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 180
Loc: Gluckstadt, MS

Offline
 Originally Posted By: BSK

Until a person has tried one of the better black-flash cameras, they generally don't realize how much camera avoidance they are experiencing. Of those I've talked to, 95+% of the people who actually try a good quality black-flash camera admit they make a difference.


BSK,
I became part of that 95+% when I starting using a Covert Extreme Black 60 camera a few months ago. The increase in the number of photos I was getting over scrapes was phenomenal. With white flash cameras I typically would get one photo of a particular buck and it would disappear. With the black flash camera, I get numerous photos of a buck at a scrape, and the bucks revisit the scrapes. In all the photos the deer seem completely relaxed. I'm convinced!!!!

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#3112761 - 01/07/13 03:06 PM Re: Proof of White Flash Scare [Re: BSK]
Rick Dillard
4 Point


Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 180
Loc: Gluckstadt, MS

Offline
 Originally Posted By: BSK

Although they are still not "cheap," there are some darn good black-flash cameras on the market this year in the $175-225 range. I suspect we will see even better (and cheaper) black-flash units on the market next year.


One of DLC Covert's new models for 2013 is the MP6 Black (black flash) camera. It is a smaller, economical version of the Extreme Black 60. The retail price for this camera is supposed to be around $159. If the features and picture quality are similar to the Extreme Black 60, I plan to get several later this year. My goal is to phase out my white flash cameras for scrape surveillance and only use them for census surveys over bait.

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#3112911 - 01/07/13 04:32 PM Re: Proof of White Flash Scare [Re: Rick Dillard]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 64846
Loc: Nashville, TN

Offline
Glad to hear about the cheaper-priced Covert Rick. The lower the price the better.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3114328 - 01/08/13 09:12 AM Re: Proof of White Flash Scare [Re: BSK]
pastorbmp
10 Point


Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 4878
Loc: Wartburg,TN

Offline
Walmart in Rockwood, TN has several Primos black flash cameras on clearance for $99.
_________________________
Fellowship Baptist Church Website

1Ti 1:15: ...Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

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#3128129 - 01/17/13 10:41 AM Re: Proof of White Flash Scare [Re: Bayou Buck]
bbuck14
8 Point


Registered: 01/01/13
Posts: 1231
Loc: West Tn.

Offline
I went to the smaller IR cameras to try and conceal them from tresspassing night time hunters seeing the white flash go off and taking them. I sold all of my huge flash cameras to buy smaller IRs. I never had a flash camera stole but had 2 IRs stolen this first year. What luck!
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