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#3034200 - 11/15/12 09:11 AM Re: Mature buck or not?...PICS ADDED [Re: BSK]
String Music
8 Point


Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 1670
Loc: Knoxville

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: deerhunter10
Imo he's 3.5 he doesn't seem to have the mass of a 4.5 or 5.5 deer we have killed 3.5 year olds before and field dressed over 200 pounds so can't just go off of body. He has a good good body but not much mass for me to say he is above 3.5. Imo


Are you talking antler mass? If so, never, never, never use antlers to judge age. Antlers will fool you more often than any other body feature. In any given location, each age-class of buck will grow such a wide range of antler sizes that there will be overlap between the largest-antlered yearling buck and the smallest-antlered mature buck. And that goes for every aspect of antler size, from beam length to number of points to mass to tine length to spread to gross score. The most accurate measure of age is body conformation, and of all the possible body conformations, neck size near the rut and chest depth in relation to front leg length are the two best age indicators.


Couldn't agree more
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#3034468 - 11/15/12 11:03 AM Re: Mature buck or not?...PICS ADDED [Re: SelphLogging]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 64817
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: SelphLogging
Bsk, there was a (by the teeth) 3.5 killed not far from us in humphreys, that field dressed 200lbs. Had quit bigger head than my 6.5+ deer, and had a 7.5"+ eye to nose measurement. Most 3yr olds have 7"


My biggest buck, a 157" Humphreys County buck, has a head and lower jaw that is a full inch and a half shorter than a yearling spike I shot from the same property. The variation in any body measurement from deer to deer is going to vary as much as it does between people. Some people are 6+' tall. Others are less than 5'. I'm seeing Junoir High kids that are over 6' tall, yet adult men who have never broken 5'.
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#3034480 - 11/15/12 11:10 AM Re: Mature buck or not?...PICS ADDED [Re: SelphLogging]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 64817
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: SelphLogging
I guess for me, I am running across more conflicting body details vs. tooth wear more and more. I see tons of bucks dead every year come through my buddy's processing/taxidermy shop each yr that conflict the two aging methods.


I don't doubt that at all. By definition, Nature is all about variation. It is what Natural Selection uses to adapt species to their environment. And through this process, the species that display the most variation between individuals is also the species that will adapt and survive the best. And I think we all understand just how adaptable whitetail deer are, considering they are doing spectacularly in every environment from the boreal arctic to the jungles of Central America.

I've been working on my field-judging skills for a very long time (since the subject first started being talked about among biologists). However, my field-judged ages only match the toothwear age around 80% of the time. Basically, I'm only getting 4 out of 5 "right." And I put the word "right" in quotes because field-judging isn't about knowing a deer's exact age. It is about finding body characteristics that will match the toothwear-estimated age.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3100203 - 12/29/12 02:51 PM Re: Mature buck or not?...UPDATE - Got him! [Re: BlountArrow]
BlountArrow
8 Point


Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 2490
Loc: SouthEast Tenn

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We've (my brother and I) been managing our little farm for about 7 years now. I probably didn't see a mature buck on film until about 3 years ago. We've since had some wonderful things happening. A lot to do with our management practices and our neighbor who has about 3x the amount of property we do and shares the same philosophy on QDM. We have NEVER killed a deer off of this farm. We've NEVER seen much worth shooting, and right or wrong from a biological standpoint, the population for so many years was so poor (and still isn't great) that I couldn't justify killing anything. Finally starting in 2010 we starting seeing a mature buck or two. We still didn't hunt the property much at all.

Well finally this year I was able to target this buck I had on film, was fairly confident he was mature after talking with several folks on here and I was blessed on Balck Friday (approx 7:30am, day after Thanksgiving) with this nice mature 8 pointe). I'll try to keep it short but he was with a doe and much to my amazement he allowed this doe to walk at least 400 yards before he ever showed himself. Talk about a smart buck I didn't even know he was there until I watched the doe march 400 yards, from a creek bottom across the field and then she got right to the woodline and stopped and looked back and she waited for him. Out he came, cool as a cucumber since she had already proved the area safe. I let him get within 75 yards of me, pulled the trigger, and he dropped like a sack of hammers, game over, no kicking, no nothing. I would have never thought he or any buck would let a doe walk that far off before following in toe behind her, but he sure did.

I learned something that day. I remember thinking if I had been on an either sex hunt I would have probably convinced myself that she was alone after watching her for a literal 15 minutes walk over 400 yards "alone" and I would have probably shot her and the whole story would be different.

I love to see the fruits of our labor, the blood, the sweat, the drain on the checking account, finally start to payoff!! Keeping in mind where the buck was killed I dare say he ain't too shabby for an East TN Mountain/Foothills buck in my humble opinion.







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#3100249 - 12/29/12 03:32 PM Re: Mature buck or not?...UPDATE - Got him! [Re: BlountArrow]
lpo1981
6 Point


Registered: 01/20/12
Posts: 609
Loc: Dickson, TN

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Nice buck and excellent story! QDM is great if everybody around you practices the same principles.
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#3100289 - 12/29/12 03:50 PM Re: Mature buck or not?...UPDATE - Got him! [Re: lpo1981]
Hollar Hunter
8 Point


Registered: 11/05/10
Posts: 2211
Loc: TN

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Great job!
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#3100324 - 12/29/12 04:33 PM Re: Mature buck or not?...UPDATE - Got him! [Re: Hollar Hunter]
parkerxbowhunter
4 Point


Registered: 09/24/11
Posts: 377
Loc: humphreys county

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cool
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#3100350 - 12/29/12 05:04 PM Re: Mature buck or not?...UPDATE - Got him! [Re: parkerxbowhunter]
Tony USMC
8 Point


Registered: 02/16/10
Posts: 1109
Loc: Rockwood,TN USA

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Great buck!
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#3100767 - 12/29/12 09:36 PM Re: Mature buck or not?...UPDATE - Got him! [Re: Tony USMC]
Hunter 257W
10 Point


Registered: 10/04/12
Posts: 2903
Loc: Franklin County

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Congratulations on a big buck! I would have thought just like you did when seeing a doe walking that far across an open area. She has to be alone - but apparently not!
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#3101170 - 12/30/12 09:07 AM Re: Mature buck or not?...UPDATE - Got him! [Re: BlountArrow]
Buzzard Breath
8 Point


Registered: 07/31/06
Posts: 1585
Loc: East

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I was wondering if you were ever going to post that picture.

Congrats again on a nice buck.

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