#3094608 - 12/25/12 07:22 AM
Jointly owned land
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blountcountyboy
8 Point
Registered: 03/30/03
Posts: 1333
Loc: Blount CountyTN ya know over n...
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If 2 parties jointly (both names are on the deed) have ownership of a piece of property and one own allows hunting and the other doesn't can someone hunting with the permission of 1 owner be charged with trespassing by the other?
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#3094696 - 12/25/12 08:43 AM
Re: Jointly owned land
[Re: blountcountyboy]
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scn
12 Point
Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 6976
Loc: Brentwood, TN US
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If 2 parties jointly (both names are on the deed) have ownership of a piece of property and one own allows hunting and the other doesn't can someone hunting with the permission of 1 owner be charged with trespassing by the other?
That is a question for a lawyer.
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#3097096 - 12/27/12 06:29 AM
Re: Jointly owned land
[Re: scn]
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BlountArrow
8 Point
Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 1278
Loc: SouthEast Tenn
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I'm no lawyer, and not TWRA so maybe I should butt out, but I would think that any property that is jointly owned would have to have complete consensus by all parties involved before anything was allowed to be done to the property. To me, your scenario is no different than a lease. (1) party is effectively giving you rights to property that he/she doesn't fully own and that doesn't seem right. I would think without permission by all owners you could very easily be trespassing.
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#3097479 - 12/27/12 11:20 AM
Re: Jointly owned land
[Re: BlountArrow]
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hitek7
4 Point
Registered: 07/26/10
Posts: 213
Loc: Eva, AL
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Is it listed as John Doe AND John Smo or John Doe OR John Smo? The "AND" "OR" could make a difference. Either way, sounds like you have a problem. One of the reasons I have never went in on a joint land purchase...
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#3097766 - 12/27/12 03:32 PM
Re: Jointly owned land
[Re: BlountArrow]
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in the dog house!
10 Point
Registered: 11/29/12
Posts: 2618
Loc: west tn
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I'm no lawyer, and not TWRA so maybe I should butt out, but I would think that any property that is jointly owned would have to have complete consensus by all parties involved before anything was allowed to be done to the property. To me, your scenario is no different than a lease. (1) party is effectively giving you rights to property that he/she doesn't fully own and that doesn't seem right. I would think without permission by all owners you could very easily be trespassing.
if this is true then wouldnt it take both to press charges as well....
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#3097821 - 12/27/12 04:12 PM
Re: Jointly owned land
[Re: in the dog house!]
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BlountArrow
8 Point
Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 1278
Loc: SouthEast Tenn
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I'm no lawyer, and not TWRA so maybe I should butt out, but I would think that any property that is jointly owned would have to have complete consensus by all parties involved before anything was allowed to be done to the property. To me, your scenario is no different than a lease. (1) party is effectively giving you rights to property that he/she doesn't fully own and that doesn't seem right. I would think without permission by all owners you could very easily be trespassing. if this is true then wouldnt it take both to press charges as well....
Again, no legal training here, but I have seen EVERY episode of Judge Judy. So my answer to your question would be that in your example you still have 1 person that has been "wronged". Therefore that 1 person should have the right to press charges or be made whole. To me, it is no different than if I gave you permission to hunt on land I didn't even own. If you hunted this land whose responsibility is it to ensure you have the permission of all owners in order to hunt this property? Not mine. You would be the one cited for trespassing if charged.
Look at it from a civil perspective instead, let's say my brother gave you permission to cut timber on our farm (a farm that myself and my 2 brothers own). You never got permission from me or my other brother and I would sue the pants off of you for cutting timber on my land...who cares if one of my brothers gave you permission. Now, if you were smart you'd then sue my brother for your losses, etc.
Then again, it would be nice to hear what a licensed attorney has to say.
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"The world is so dreadfully managed, one hardly knows to whom to complain."
-Ronald Firbank
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#3097828 - 12/27/12 04:16 PM
Re: Jointly owned land
[Re: BlountArrow]
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WRbowhunter
8 Point
Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1464
Loc: collierville,tn
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If you do ever get a "legal" opinion please post the response here. Would like to know myself
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#3097837 - 12/27/12 04:22 PM
Re: Jointly owned land
[Re: BlountArrow]
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Chaneylake
Brownsville Mafia
16 Point
Registered: 12/18/07
Posts: 15298
Loc: on the wings of a snow white d...
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I'm no lawyer, and not TWRA so maybe I should butt out, but I would think that any property that is jointly owned would have to have complete consensus by all parties involved before anything was allowed to be done to the property. To me, your scenario is no different than a lease. (1) party is effectively giving you rights to property that he/she doesn't fully own and that doesn't seem right. I would think without permission by all owners you could very easily be trespassing. if this is true then wouldnt it take both to press charges as well.... Again, no legal training here, but I have seen EVERY episode of Judge Judy. So my answer to your question would be that in your example you still have 1 person that has been "wronged". Therefore that 1 person should have the right to press charges or be made whole. To me, it is no different than if I gave you permission to hunt on land I didn't even own. If you hunted this land whose responsibility is it to ensure you have the permission of all owners in order to hunt this property? Not mine. You would be the one cited for trespassing if charged. Look at it from a civil perspective instead, let's say my brother gave you permission to cut timber on our farm (a farm that myself and my 2 brothers own). You never got permission from me or my other brother and I would sue the pants off of you for cutting timber on my land...who cares if one of my brothers gave you permission. Now, if you were smart you'd then sue my brother for your losses, etc. Then again, it would be nice to hear what a licensed attorney has to say.
there are to many variables at this point
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#3097868 - 12/27/12 04:47 PM
Re: Jointly owned land
[Re: BlountArrow]
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BMan
14 Point
Registered: 02/06/06
Posts: 8917
Loc: Middle TN
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I'm no lawyer, and not TWRA so maybe I should butt out, but I would think that any property that is jointly owned would have to have complete consensus by all parties involved before anything was allowed to be done to the property. To me, your scenario is no different than a lease. (1) party is effectively giving you rights to property that he/she doesn't fully own and that doesn't seem right. I would think without permission by all owners you could very easily be trespassing. if this is true then wouldnt it take both to press charges as well.... Again, no legal training here, but I have seen EVERY episode of Judge Judy. So my answer to your question would be that in your example you still have 1 person that has been "wronged". Therefore that 1 person should have the right to press charges or be made whole. To me, it is no different than if I gave you permission to hunt on land I didn't even own. If you hunted this land whose responsibility is it to ensure you have the permission of all owners in order to hunt this property? Not mine. You would be the one cited for trespassing if charged. Look at it from a civil perspective instead, let's say my brother gave you permission to cut timber on our farm (a farm that myself and my 2 brothers own). You never got permission from me or my other brother and I would sue the pants off of you for cutting timber on my land...who cares if one of my brothers gave you permission. Now, if you were smart you'd then sue my brother for your losses, etc. Then again, it would be nice to hear what a licensed attorney has to say.
Actually, using your example, nobody has been wronged because no single person has any righs to the property or its resources without the other.
I believe that a single owner in a jointly owned parcel can indeed grant permission unless the deed forbids it specifically. I base this on the fact that a spouse may admit police into a jointly owned home to conduct a search without a warrant, and the results of that search can and will hold up in court against the other spouse.
But it would be nice to have someone who actually knows the real answer tell us. 
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#3099779 - 12/29/12 12:33 AM
Re: Jointly owned land
[Re: BMan]
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Southern Sportsman
6 Point
Registered: 09/18/11
Posts: 505
Loc: West TN
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I base this on the fact that a spouse may admit police into a jointly owned home to conduct a search without a warrant, and the results of that search can and will hold up in court against the other spouse. But it would be nice to have someone who actually knows the real answer tell us.
That's not exactly true. If one spouse is present and objecting to a search, and another spouse consents, the conent will not override the objection -- in which case a search would NOT be valid. In the absence of the other spouse, however, one spouses consent would be effective to permit a warrantless search. (the same is true with any co-tenant, not just spouses)
As for the main question, co-tenants have "concurrent ownership" which is kind of weird and means that each co-owner has an equal right to possession of the entire property. One of the basic principals of co-tenancy, however, is that one co-tenant cannot do anything to prejudice the other co-tenants. BUT a co-tenant may grant, either through a lease or just by permission, HIS right of possession to another person. So a co-owner could lease his rights or could just give permission to another person to act in his place and the other co-tenants would have to deal with it. But a co-tenant could not on his on give permission to a third party to use the land and he himself also use the land because this would adversely affect the rights of his co-tenants. (there would be one more person using the property than the co-tenants had originally agreed). If a co-tenant did grant permission to a third party to use the property (not in his place, but in addition to himself) then the other co-tenants would not be able to charge the third party with trespass because he would still have actual permission from an owner. The adversely affected co-tenants could sue the co-tenant who gave permission, however, because he broke the cardinal rule of co-ownership and did something that adversely affected his co-tenants.
It's a little more complicated than this, but this is the basic rule. The best thing to do is never by into a jointly owned property. If you find yourself party to a jointly owned piece of property, the second best thing you can do is to draft and sign an agreement concerning the rights of each co-owner. Include everything you can possibly think of that may come up ever: Leases, timber, farming profits, permission, division, termination, death of co-tenant, rights of children of co-owners, etc, etc. Then when a question does come up, you can just check the agreement.
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