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#3074234 - 12/11/12 12:17 PM Over - ?
ferg
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My family groups are forming back up - and not seeing any chasing at this point - still have the occasional buck 'cruising' through -

Could it be that all the does were bred the first 'go around' ?

ferg....
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#3074328 - 12/11/12 01:07 PM Re: Over - ? [Re: ferg]
BSK
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Registered: 03/11/99
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 Originally Posted By: ferg
My family groups are forming back up - and not seeing any chasing at this point - still have the occasional buck 'cruising' through -

Could it be that all the does were bred the first 'go around' ?

ferg....


Almost all does are bred the first time everywhere in TN. Now bucks often do display a secondary "surge" in rutty behavior, and chases can sometimes be seen 30 days after the peak of breeding. However, fetal conception data will usually show very few if any does are actually getting bred during the "2nd rut." Exactly what drives these cycles is a good question. Does do cycle through estrus every 28-30 days, but if no does are actually getting bred, then what is really going on? In my opinion, the most likely scenario is barren does (incapable of conceiving) cycling through estrus over and over, driving the chasing during the 2nd and 3rd rut.
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#3074617 - 12/11/12 03:58 PM Re: Over - ? [Re: BSK]
Hunter 257W
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Registered: 10/04/12
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I keep telling you guys that it's the deer cocaine. \:\) \:\) \:\)
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#3074764 - 12/11/12 05:42 PM Re: Over - ? [Re: Hunter 257W]
MattR
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Registered: 09/22/12
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Dang BSK . That makes alot of sense, never thought of it like that, i thought since the doe to buck ratio is jacked up with may too many does where Im at that it made the 2nd rut better.
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#3074969 - 12/11/12 07:25 PM Re: Over - ? [Re: MattR]
landman
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Registered: 11/15/09
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Loc: TN & Western KY

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[quote=MattRitter]Dang BSK . That makes alot of sense, never thought of it like that, i thought since the doe to buck ratio is jacked up with may too many does where Im at that it made the 2nd rut better. [/quote

Other than reports of seeing " New born" fawns
Over a 90 period in summer...that has to tell us
some does are bred later than others
Doesn't It?
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#3074980 - 12/11/12 07:31 PM Re: Over - ? [Re: landman]
landman
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Registered: 11/15/09
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Should have said "90 day"
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#3075016 - 12/11/12 07:49 PM Re: Over - ? [Re: landman]
Crosshairy
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Registered: 08/22/06
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I was always told that some yearling does go into estrous during the second rut, and that drives some of the action. Any truth to that?
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#3075420 - 12/12/12 07:36 AM Re: Over - ? [Re: MattR]
BSK
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Registered: 03/11/99
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 Originally Posted By: MattRitter
Dang BSK . That makes alot of sense, never thought of it like that, i thought since the doe to buck ratio is jacked up with may too many does where Im at that it made the 2nd rut better.


Most hunters think their adult sex ratio is highly skewed towards does. Yet in real-world studies, rarely is it found that the sex ratio is really that skewed. First, only in rare circumstances is that even biologically possible. Secondly, what we see while hunting isn't a good representation of what deer are really out there in the woods, especially in areas where far more harvest pressure is placed on one sex of deer (usually bucks). That drives just the bucks nocturnal (where they aren't seen by hunters) while leaving the does and fawns to walk around in daylight with impunity (where they will be seen multiple times by hunters).

What I'm getting at is, just because you see 6 does for every buck, your real sex ratio is probably no worse than 2 does per buck, which is biologically acceptable.
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#3075428 - 12/12/12 07:43 AM Re: Over - ? [Re: landman]
BSK
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Registered: 03/11/99
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 Originally Posted By: landman
 Originally Posted By: MattRitter
Dang BSK . That makes alot of sense, never thought of it like that, i thought since the doe to buck ratio is jacked up with may too many does where Im at that it made the 2nd rut better.


Other than reports of seeing " New born" fawns
Over a 90 period in summer...that has to tell us
some does are bred later than others
Doesn't It?


First, I take those "newborn fawn" reports with a grain of salt. I've been working with deer almost 2 decades and I still can't tell you how old a fawn is when I see it. Maybe it's newborn and maybe it's a month old.

But yes, a few does will be bred very late, but those are usually female fawns. Female fawns will not reach estrus until they acheive a given body weight (sexual maturity). That can occur in December, January, February, or even March. But in TN, female fawns that reach sexual maturity as a fawn are the minority. In fact, even in very healthy deer herds in TN, rarely do I see more than 25% of female fawns successfully breeding and producing a fawn the following summer.
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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3075429 - 12/12/12 07:43 AM Re: Over - ? [Re: Crosshairy]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
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 Originally Posted By: Crosshairy
I was always told that some yearling does go into estrous during the second rut, and that drives some of the action. Any truth to that?


By "yearling" does, do you mean fawns?
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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

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