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#3072662 - 12/10/12 02:15 PM Re: Should TN Go to All Weapons Season? [Re: Rubberduck270]
BigAl
16 Point


Registered: 07/31/01
Posts: 19099
Loc: Fayette County, TN US

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I'm fine with current weapon structure (crossbows during bow season, in-lines during mz, etc)
- I'm fine with season start and end dates

And the argument about crossbows during bow season is getting old AND rediculous. Get over it.
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#3072678 - 12/10/12 02:20 PM Re: Should TN Go to All Weapons Season? [Re: BSK]
chiggerbit
Spike


Registered: 09/16/11
Posts: 72
Loc: Lebanon, TN

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: chiggerbit
 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: cecil30-30
Yes have just a deer season. open on oct 1-JAN 1 And any weapon is legal but yoyou have a set number of deer allowwed to take.


I've been advocating that for years, simply because I'm tired of hearing hunters argue over who should have the most hunting days, bow hunters versus gun hunters versus pistol hunters, etc.

Just make it deer season. Let hunters choose which weapon they want to hunt with.


Maybe you're not serious, but just because there's arguments and elitism among the ranks...? Clearly, the commission hasn't just arbitrarily set up the seasons as they are.


Actually, I'm quite serious. I would have no problem with just "deer" season (no individual weapons seasons).

You have to understand how all of these special weapons seasons got started. Back during the deer restoration effort, the primary deer season was gun season. Then advocates for hunting with more difficult/less effective (and rarely used weapons) lobbied for these "special" seasons. Considering very few hunters would participate in these seasons, they were enacted because their influence on annual deer harvests would be almost non-existant. In essence, they were allowed because the agency believed few deer would ever be killed during these special weapons season. Archery season was first adopted before the compound bow craze started. MZ season started when just a few people were shooting the first Hawken "kit" side-hammers (build them yourself). The "real" deer season was always gun season and these other special weapons season were just after-thoughts that would provide some opportunity for a few while doing no harm.

Yet the popularity of the seasons (because they offered more hunting time than gun season) grew to the point that now some participants in these seasons feel they somehow deserve their special time in the woods, and that their time should dominate all other weapon hunters' times.


Yes, lobbying is usually the reason for any legislation, but that doesn't mean the seasons aren't reasonable or valid.

Seems to me like the factors to consider are what works and weigh the intended outcomes with possible unintended consequences, not so much to try to forsee changes in attitude unless it affected behavior.

Entitlement is a nationwide epidemic, but do you really want guys with high powered rifles out in the woods everywhere all fall while the leaves are still on? For instance, would the seasons say the same at a place like Big South Fork? Would other folks that deer hunters share the woods with embrace an all weapons deer season starting so early in the year? And back to privilege and entitlement, would or could this "early" army of orange also develop a sense of entitlement that made the hikers, leaf watchers, and squirrel hunters they shared the woods with, a little resentful?

I'm just saying. I think they could leave well enough alone.

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#3072802 - 12/10/12 03:21 PM Re: Should TN Go to All Weapons Season? [Re: Urban_Hunter]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65661
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Urban_Hunter
Wanting to eliminate archery season to extend gun season is selfish as well...


Really?

I think we would all agree that the vast majority of bow hunters also hunt during MZ season (either with bow or MZ) and gun season (with bow, MZ, or gun). So those bow hunting get to hunt all the days hunting is open, which this year is 99. Those who are gun-only hunters get 50 days of hunting this year. Now please explain to me how those only getting 50 days to hunt, and would also like 99 days to hunt like the bow-hunters currently get, are selfish? Honestly, I can't wait to hear your logic for this! \:\)
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3072808 - 12/10/12 03:22 PM Re: Should TN Go to All Weapons Season? [Re: Redfred16]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65661
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Redfred16
 Originally Posted By: MUP
The "earn a buck" program would hit the crapper really quick if some here were relegated to hunting where there weren't enough does to shoot 3 a day, everyday. Once again, the herd structure isn't the same all over the state.


As someone who lived through "earn a buck" its the worst idea ever. It doesn't even help the reason we're told it was put in place. Finally Wisconsin DNR was forced to end it.



I agree that Earn-A-Buck can end up being a disaster.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3072815 - 12/10/12 03:25 PM Re: Should TN Go to All Weapons Season? [Re: chiggerbit]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65661
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: chiggerbit
Seems to me like the factors to consider are what works and weigh the intended outcomes with possible unintended consequences, not so much to try to forsee changes in attitude unless it affected behavior.

Entitlement is a nationwide epidemic, but do you really want guys with high powered rifles out in the woods everywhere all fall while the leaves are still on? For instance, would the seasons say the same at a place like Big South Fork? Would other folks that deer hunters share the woods with embrace an all weapons deer season starting so early in the year? And back to privilege and entitlement, would or could this "early" army of orange also develop a sense of entitlement that made the hikers, leaf watchers, and squirrel hunters they shared the woods with, a little resentful?

I'm just saying. I think they could leave well enough alone.


Great post chiggerbit. I don't think public hunting areas, nor areas shared with non-hunting activities, could withstand a long all-weapons season.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3072838 - 12/10/12 03:36 PM Re: Should TN Go to All Weapons Season? [Re: BSK]
UTGrad
14 Point


Registered: 12/01/07
Posts: 9674
Loc: Franklin, TN

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Wow I post this and come back a few days later and there are 15 pages lol
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#3072932 - 12/10/12 04:29 PM Re: Should TN Go to All Weapons Season? [Re: BSK]
Urban_Hunter
8 Point


Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 1601
Loc: TN

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: Urban_Hunter
Wanting to eliminate archery season to extend gun season is selfish as well...


Really?

I think we would all agree that the vast majority of bow hunters also hunt during MZ season (either with bow or MZ) and gun season (with bow, MZ, or gun). So those bow hunting get to hunt all the days hunting is open, which this year is 99. Those who are gun-only hunters get 50 days of hunting this year. Now please explain to me how those only getting 50 days to hunt, and would also like 99 days to hunt like the bow-hunters currently get, are selfish? Honestly, I can't wait to hear your logic for this! \:\)



My point remains the same as stated in the first part of my post, if each individual could change the rules then they would... to better fit their individual wants/needs. By eliminating archery season to better fit your wants/needs you will be affecting others negatively whether you see it or not. I enjoy archery season more so than rifle for the exact reason you state... less competition/careless deer. I NEVER claimed that this is not selfish, in fact I stated that it is MORE selfish in my original post. I do however feel that it is fair. You can bow hunt if you want... there is no reason why you can't now that anyone can hunt with a x-bow. You can hunt 99 days just as well as I can, but it is more work and requires more skill. To wish the season away so that it is easier for you to kill deer and to get you in the woods the extra days is selfish... even if it less selfish than wanting the woods to yourself as a bow hunter... its still selfish. For archery to survive, there must be a dedicated archery season. Same goes for ML. If you want more days in the woods, get a bow. That is fair.
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#3072962 - 12/10/12 04:42 PM Re: Should TN Go to All Weapons Season? [Re: Urban_Hunter]
Wes Parrish
16 Point


Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 19402
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN

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Just to add a different perspective . . . . . . .

 Originally Posted By: Urban_Hunter
For archery to survive, there must be a dedicated archery season. Same goes for ML.

Are you saying there would be no archery or black-powder enthusiasts if we didn't have "special" hunting seasons for members of this group?

Should archery and black-powder weapons become less popular with hunters, is that necessarily "bad"?

Many of the most enthused over archery and "special" guns don't even hunt. To me, it's more about HUNTING, than the weapon.

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#3073018 - 12/10/12 05:09 PM Re: Should TN Go to All Weapons Season? [Re: Urban_Hunter]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65661
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Urban_Hunter
 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: Urban_Hunter
Wanting to eliminate archery season to extend gun season is selfish as well...


Really?

I think we would all agree that the vast majority of bow hunters also hunt during MZ season (either with bow or MZ) and gun season (with bow, MZ, or gun). So those bow hunting get to hunt all the days hunting is open, which this year is 99. Those who are gun-only hunters get 50 days of hunting this year. Now please explain to me how those only getting 50 days to hunt, and would also like 99 days to hunt like the bow-hunters currently get, are selfish? Honestly, I can't wait to hear your logic for this! \:\)



My point remains the same as stated in the first part of my post, if each individual could change the rules then they would... to better fit their individual wants/needs.


Or simply wanting equality of hunting time. How is that selfish?


 Quote:
By eliminating archery season...


I don't want to eliminate bow hunting, just bow only hunting. Why can't the bow hunters share the woods?


 Quote:
...you will be affecting others negatively whether you see it or not.


Of course it would negatively affect bow hunters. I never said it wouldn't. But again, how is "Group A" (gun hunters) wanting the same number of days in the woods as "Group B" (bow hunters) selfish?


 Quote:
I enjoy archery season more so than rifle for the exact reason you state... less competition/careless deer. I NEVER claimed that this is not selfish, in fact I stated that it is MORE selfish in my original post. I do however feel that it is fair.


How is thsi fair? Fair suggests equality. This is not equality. Equality is everyone getting to hunt the same number of days with their weapon of choice. If you want to use a bow, so be it. I prefer to use a gun. If we both get to hunt the same number of days with our weapon of choice, that would be fair.


 Quote:
You can bow hunt if you want... there is no reason why you can't now that anyone can hunt with a x-bow. You can hunt 99 days just as well as I can, but it is more work and requires more skill. To wish the season away so that it is easier for you to kill deer and to get you in the woods the extra days is selfish...


This has nothing to do with how "easy" or "hard" a weapon is to use. This all about fairness. So you get to hunt with your weaponof choice, but if i want to hunt, I have to use your weapon of choice, not mine? And that's fair? Don't think so...

 Quote:
...even if it less selfish than wanting the woods to yourself as a bow hunter... its still selfish.


So when people ask for equality of rights, that's selfishness? Hmmm, strange definition of selfishness.


 Quote:
For archery to survive, there must be a dedicated archery season. Same goes for ML.


Whether a type of weapon continues to be used is of no interest. We're talking fairness and selfishness here.


 Quote:
If you want more days in the woods, get a bow. That is fair.


No, getting to hunt with the weapon I personally want, and you getting to hunt with the weapon you prefer, for the same number of days, is fair.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3073055 - 12/10/12 05:28 PM Re: Should TN Go to All Weapons Season? [Re: Pinwheeled]
Timber Ghost
8 Point


Registered: 09/07/08
Posts: 1687
Loc: Tn. Blount( Seymour)

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NO
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Animal rights "What do you feel when you shoot an innocent deer?"
Hunter "A slight recoil."

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