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#3072528 - 12/10/12 12:45 PM Re: Want to change manner & means during muzzleloader [Re: MUP]
Hunter 257W
10 Point


Registered: 10/04/12
Posts: 3227
Loc: Franklin County

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I don't see how anybody can say that allowing handguns during ML season would give a hunter an advantage over the ML.

If the singleshot rifles were allowed, I doubt it would change the number of deer taken hardly any with the caliber restrictions you speak of. Few hunters would buy a single shot rifle just to gain the small advantage over a ML for a mere 2 weeks. I most likely would, but then I'm a gun nut. For instance a NEF singleshot in 357Magnum reamed out to chamber the 357Maximum would be a great woods deer rifle. \:\)

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#3072537 - 12/10/12 12:51 PM Re: Want to change manner & means during muzzleloader [Re: Hunter 257W]
wtbh236
4 Point


Registered: 11/08/11
Posts: 108
Loc: maury co tn

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no way
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Rodney

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#3072542 - 12/10/12 12:53 PM Re: Want to change manner & means during muzzleloader [Re: Hunter 257W]
Rubberduck270
10 Point


Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 2833
Loc: Lawrence Co.

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 Originally Posted By: Hunter 257W
I don't see how anybody can say that allowing handguns during ML season would give a hunter an advantage over the ML.

If the singleshot rifles were allowed, I doubt it would change the number of deer taken hardly any with the caliber restrictions you speak of. Few hunters would buy a single shot rifle just to gain the small advantage over a ML for a mere 2 weeks. I most likely would, but then I'm a gun nut. For instance a NEF singleshot in 357Magnum reamed out to chamber the 357Maximum would be a great woods deer rifle. \:\)

I'd like to see someone push a 200 gr. bullet 2700 fps out of a pistol cartridge. I'll keep my Smokeless ML and let ya'll play with pistol cartridges and 45-70s.
_________________________
Smokeless Muzzleloading: It ain't your Grampa's flintlock

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#3072628 - 12/10/12 01:53 PM Re: Want to change manner & means during muzzleloader [Re: scn]
contendershooter
4 Point


Registered: 12/07/12
Posts: 111
Loc: TN, USA

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It's actually not a stretch, most muzzleloaders out there are shooting 150 grains of 777, Pyrodex, or Blackhorn, smokeless powder in the case of the Savage ML-10II and with those loads and a good 250gr to 300gr sabot, you have a weapon that equals a 45/70 on steroids, is more accurate than your smooth-bore or rifled slug gun, so what's the point? I have went over this multiple times looking at numbers ballistically, and the muzzleloader has the velocity and ft-lbs advantage. Magazines have reviewed the same muzzleloader vs shotgun argument and muzzleloader came out on top the majority of the time. And as far as reload times, with these fast reload tubes you can get for muzzleloaders now, it can be done in about the same time to break open your single shot, fumble around with a new fresh shell, insert, aim and fire again. And let's not forget sabot shotgun slugs use the same 209 primers, and the same bullets that are in muzzleloader sabots
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#3072629 - 12/10/12 01:54 PM Re: Want to change manner & means during muzzleloader [Re: Rubberduck270]
contendershooter
4 Point


Registered: 12/07/12
Posts: 111
Loc: TN, USA

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see this is proof, and I can confirm what he is saying as I have a Savage 10MLII also and can attest to this
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#3072634 - 12/10/12 01:56 PM Re: Want to change manner & means during muzzleloader [Re: Hangnail]
contendershooter
4 Point


Registered: 12/07/12
Posts: 111
Loc: TN, USA

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It's Mississippi that has those laws, Louisiana is considering going that route
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#3072635 - 12/10/12 01:57 PM Re: Want to change manner & means during muzzleloader [Re: chiggerbit]
contendershooter
4 Point


Registered: 12/07/12
Posts: 111
Loc: TN, USA

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Chiggerbit, that is your opinion, and I appreciate that, but I can tell you that I can reload a muzzleloader every bit as fast as I can my NEF partner shotgun, or my TC Contender Pistol or Rifle.
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#3072638 - 12/10/12 01:58 PM Re: Want to change manner & means during muzzleloader [Re: Hunter 257W]
contendershooter
4 Point


Registered: 12/07/12
Posts: 111
Loc: TN, USA

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 Originally Posted By: Hunter 257W
I don't see how anybody can say that allowing handguns during ML season would give a hunter an advantage over the ML.

If the singleshot rifles were allowed, I doubt it would change the number of deer taken hardly any with the caliber restrictions you speak of. Few hunters would buy a single shot rifle just to gain the small advantage over a ML for a mere 2 weeks. I most likely would, but then I'm a gun nut. For instance a NEF singleshot in 357Magnum reamed out to chamber the 357Maximum would be a great woods deer rifle. \:\)
That is a mouth watering propsition...or a 445 Supermag from a 44 Magnum

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#3072657 - 12/10/12 02:12 PM Re: Want to change manner & means during muzzleloader [Re: contendershooter]
scn
16 Point


Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 10024
Loc: Brentwood, TN US

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 Originally Posted By: contendershooter
It's actually not a stretch, most muzzleloaders out there are shooting 150 grains of 777, Pyrodex, or Blackhorn, smokeless powder in the case of the Savage ML-10II and with those loads and a good 250gr to 300gr sabot, you have a weapon that equals a 45/70 on steroids, is more accurate than your smooth-bore or rifled slug gun, so what's the point? I have went over this multiple times looking at numbers ballistically, and the muzzleloader has the velocity and ft-lbs advantage. Magazines have reviewed the same muzzleloader vs shotgun argument and muzzleloader came out on top the majority of the time. And as far as reload times, with these fast reload tubes you can get for muzzleloaders now, it can be done in about the same time to break open your single shot, fumble around with a new fresh shell, insert, aim and fire again. And let's not forget sabot shotgun slugs use the same 209 primers, and the same bullets that are in muzzleloader sabots


You are certainly entitled to your opinion. However, after using muzzleloaders and break action firearms for over 40 years, I can tell you the reloading time between the two types is not even close. In addition, the motions needed to reload a muzzleloader make getting a second shot off at a deer extremely difficult.

So, yes, there are similarities in some of the ballistics, but totally different ball games in the hunting applications.
_________________________
Life is too short to fish with a dead cricket.

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#3072674 - 12/10/12 02:19 PM Re: Want to change manner & means during muzzleloader [Re: contendershooter]
Rubberduck270
10 Point


Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 2833
Loc: Lawrence Co.

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 Originally Posted By: contendershooter
 Originally Posted By: Hunter 257W
I don't see how anybody can say that allowing handguns during ML season would give a hunter an advantage over the ML.

If the singleshot rifles were allowed, I doubt it would change the number of deer taken hardly any with the caliber restrictions you speak of. Few hunters would buy a single shot rifle just to gain the small advantage over a ML for a mere 2 weeks. I most likely would, but then I'm a gun nut. For instance a NEF singleshot in 357Magnum reamed out to chamber the 357Maximum would be a great woods deer rifle. \:\)
That is a mouth watering propsition...or a 445 Supermag from a 44 Magnum

When you start talking about reaming barrels and rechambering rifles you get away from what I would consider a "primitive" rifle altogether. Over-the-counter calibers are what most would use if this ever went through.

And in all honesty, I don't care how fast you think you can reload a muzzleloader. I know I can reload a single shot faster than you can load a muzzleloader. And I'll even let you have your ramrod already out \:\)
_________________________
Smokeless Muzzleloading: It ain't your Grampa's flintlock

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