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#3074138 - 12/11/12 11:17 AM Re: Want to change manner & means during muzzleloader [Re: stik]
contendershooter
4 Point


Registered: 12/07/12
Posts: 111
Loc: TN, USA

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I would like all of you to re-visit the survey site, as after looking at the responses here on this post, I have modified the answer selections after recording the data from the previous answers. Please take time to retake the survey.

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/Z6R68PS

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#3074140 - 12/11/12 11:20 AM Re: Want to change manner & means during muzzleloader [Re: Rubberduck270]
pseshooter300
8 Point


Registered: 04/03/11
Posts: 1023
Loc: kingsport

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I say leave it muzzle loader like it is
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#3074153 - 12/11/12 11:26 AM Re: Want to change manner & means during muzzleloader [Re: SES]
Hunter 257W
10 Point


Registered: 10/04/12
Posts: 3227
Loc: Franklin County

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This has been an interesting discussion but rather than focusing on the speed of reloading a ML vs. single shot cartridge gun, I think it might be interesting to consider how far the current ML season has strayed from its original intent due to the use of scopes.

And I think that the use of a scope is much more of an advantage in killing a deer than any perceived gain a single shot cartridge gun would have over a ML because of the cartridge gun's faster reloading. As we all know, much deer movement is in low light and there is no comparison in performance under those conditions between the iron sights of the original ML’s and a modern scope that practically 100% of ML's carry nowadays. With iron sights you lose those valuable minutes of deer movement at the beginning and end of each day. You simply can’t see well enough to shoot whereas if you have a good scope you can use every minute of legal light. Doesn’t that conflict with giving users of “Primitive Weapons” extra time in the woods because they are using a weapon that is so ineffective? I sure wouldn’t trade my inline with a Leupold 3x9 for a true Hawken rifle with iron sights to hunt with. \:\)

I think if single shot rifles were allowed during ML season with certain restrictions such as requiring an exposed hammer and chambered for cartridges prior to some date….maybe 1890???.....it would change hardly anything as far as deer numbers harvested. The Sharps rifle company would sell a few more guns but not many people would be willing to spend that kind of money – only a few of us real gun nuts – modern inline ML’s would still dominate the woods during ML season and everybody would be happy.

(Oh and in my experience, most of the time, deer run off when you shoot and miss so neither of these type rifles can be reloaded fast enough to give a hunter a second shot. Again, MOST of the time. \:\) I know that every now and then a deer just stands there.)

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#3074162 - 12/11/12 11:33 AM Re: Want to change manner & means during muzzleloader [Re: Hunter 257W]
Wes Parrish
16 Point


Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 19343
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN

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More and more, I'm convinced the "special" season segments are becoming more about marketing products related to them, than having much to do with hunters' wishes, much less deer management.

Why should the weapon preferences of a very small minority of hunters dictate deer-hunting regulations? Why should manufacturers & marketers of "special" weapons and products dictate deer-hunting regulations?

Should not the regs be mainly focused more on the balance between biologically sound deer management and the preferences of the super-majority of deer hunters?

Whom is served when the purchase of expensive products to participate is required by most?

Change is the only thing constant.
A few decades ago we had essentially no deer in Tennessee.
Later we had more hunters than deer.
Now we have a lot more deer than hunters, with a probable trend of a growing deer population and steady to declining number of deer hunters.

But when we do make changes, to whom should those changes cater to most?

Maybe South Carolina has it right.
Just open deer season on a certain date, then close it on a certain date. Let the hunters hunt with whichever weapon(s) they already own or might be willing to purchase, as opposed to being forced to purchase to participate in some "special" season.

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#3074186 - 12/11/12 11:48 AM Re: Want to change manner & means during muzzleloader [Re: Wes Parrish]
smyrnagc
6 Point


Registered: 12/26/10
Posts: 917
Loc: Middle Tennessee

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How is the survey trending so far (what are the percentages for change/no change?
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Modern Muzzleloader
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#3074235 - 12/11/12 12:20 PM Re: Want to change manner & means during muzzleloader [Re: contendershooter]
Happy Birthday Rubberduck270
10 Point


Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 2833
Loc: Lawrence Co.

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 Originally Posted By: contendershooter

-Total Weight of 6 lbs
-Ultra Light Kevlar Stock
-Aluminum Bedded
-24" stainless steel contoured barrel
-jeweled bolt
-fully adjustable trigger

and you call this a "primitive" muzzleloader and you think you would be at a disadvantage with a smoke pole like this compared with someone with a single shot shotgun with a bead sight or even a scope? Man that is a stretch...no matter the ball game

You can put a brand new engine in a Model T Ford and it's still an antique automobile. No matter how you dress up a ML it's still primitive because it is incapable of being loaded from the breech. Breech loading rifles were a great advancement in firearms. Reloading time was greatly reduced. Which is still the challenge associated with them today. You get 1 shot.

You want to remove scopes from MLs? Lets do away with sights on archery equipment too. See how good those bows shoot then. As hunters, it's our job to make the most ethical shot on an animal as possible. Scopes and sights allow us to accomplish this. Heck if ya'll want to get real "primitive" lets ban all forms of percussion caps, sabots, sights and RIFLING in the barrels. Just stuff yer smooth bore full of Pyrodex and a punkin' ball then set her off with good ol' hunk of flint \:\)

Keep yer powder dry fellers!
_________________________
Smokeless Muzzleloading: It ain't your Grampa's flintlock

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#3074269 - 12/11/12 12:44 PM Re: Want to change manner & means during muzzleloader [Re: stik]
Robtattoo
4 Point


Registered: 08/14/12
Posts: 218
Loc: Tullahoma, TN.

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 Originally Posted By: stik

inline rifles were around in the 1700's.


Could you please provide documented evidence of this?
So far as I'm aware, only one single rifle has been discovered with an 'inline' flint mechanism: Paczelt rifle.
_________________________
Wooden bows, Lever actions & Blackpowder. All a body needs!

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#3074279 - 12/11/12 12:48 PM Re: Want to change manner & means during muzzleloader [Re: Robtattoo]
Robtattoo
4 Point


Registered: 08/14/12
Posts: 218
Loc: Tullahoma, TN.

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Whoops! Sorry about the photo size!
_________________________
Wooden bows, Lever actions & Blackpowder. All a body needs!

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#3074308 - 12/11/12 01:01 PM Re: Want to change manner & means during muzzleloader [Re: Robtattoo]
MUP
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/01/07
Posts: 45102
Loc: Just North of Chatt-town

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Good gosh! That rifle is HUGE! \:D
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MUP

Amateurs: Built the Ark

Professionals: Built the Titanic

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#3074402 - 12/11/12 01:40 PM Re: Want to change manner & means during muzzleloader [Re: stik]
Hunter 257W
10 Point


Registered: 10/04/12
Posts: 3227
Loc: Franklin County

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 Originally Posted By: stik
 Originally Posted By: contendershooter
Let me also add this note...inline muzzleloaders are a technological advantage in that weapon line, but they ARE NOT primitive.




inline rifles were around in the 1700's. tennessee's MUZZLELOADER season has NEVER been a primitive weapon season but a MUZZLELOADER season.


But the original in-line ML's weren't even close in performance to todays guns using 209 primers, preformed powder pellets and sabots to fire sub-caliber jacketed bullets with plastic aerodynamic tips. You are right that the season was never called a "Primitive Weapon" season but the fact that most ML's at that time were replicas of the originals was the justification used to give ML hunters extra time to hunt without competing with guys using 30-06's, 270's etc.

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