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#3075431 - 12/12/12 07:46 AM Re: Should TN Go to All Weapons Season? [Re: MUP]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65979
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: MUP
Folks are gonna keep on complaining till they get something they really don't want imo. The season/weapon/bag limits are fine the way they are.


Other than a few minor tweeks I would love to see, I completely agree with that.
_________________________
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#3075441 - 12/12/12 07:54 AM Re: Should TN Go to All Weapons Season? [Re: BSK]
contendershooter
4 Point


Registered: 12/07/12
Posts: 111
Loc: TN, USA

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I will say this, when I proposed allowing the use of single shot rifles and slug guns last year during muzzleloader season, I spoke with TWRA and some commissioners on their pros and cons of the proposal, and on the biology side it wasn't as big of a concern as it was on the law enforcement side. It seems they knew they could adjust the season if need be, but since its only a two week period, the overall statewide impact is minimum. Your not going to see more deer just because you have a different weapon, the only change is you may be able to have a better shooting opportunity or you may have a few more hunters, but nothing devastating to the herd.
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#3075482 - 12/12/12 08:34 AM Re: Should TN Go to All Weapons Season? [Re: contendershooter]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65979
Loc: Nashville, TN

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I don't work for the TWRA, so I'm not privy to their internal discussions, but from conversations I've had with the TWRA personnel, they have stressed that their season/bag-limit discussions have usually revolved around a philosophy of providing the largest number of hunters with the maximum opportunities to hunt, and the maximum opportunity to kill deer, without doing harm to the deer herd. I think that is a great philosophy. As long as no harm is being done to the resource, why not provide the most people with the most time to hunt and the maximum number of deer they can kill?

Unfortunately, that philosophy, which benefits the most hunters, is often up against entrenched minority groups who want to limit others hunting time so they get more hunting time with less competition from other hunters, and the opportunity to hunt "less pressured" deer. That selfish goal, and the minority groups that push it, really irk me.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3075617 - 12/12/12 10:05 AM Re: Should TN Go to All Weapons Season? [Re: BSK]
Urban_Hunter
8 Point


Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 1694
Loc: TN

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 Originally Posted By: BSK


Unfortunately, that philosophy, which benefits the most hunters, is often up against entrenched minority groups who want to limit others hunting time so they get more hunting time with less competition from other hunters, and the opportunity to hunt "less pressured" deer. That selfish goal, and the minority groups that push it, really irk me.


Ha, you make us sound like terrorists. Entrenched minority groups?
We are not entrenched nor are we a "minority group". We are not an organized group and do not hold rallies to fight off the machine of Big Gun Socialists. It also isn't a goal, your proposal would be a goal considering that it is something you want but do not have. I wish you would also realize that we do not want to limit others hunting time. I have never met a hunter that I haven't tried to peer pressure into bow hunting. It would suit me just fine if every single gun hunter owned a bow. IM NOT JOKING, GO GET A BOW OR X-BOW YOU WON'T OFFEND ANYONE BY INVADING THEIR PRIVATE BOW SEASON SANCTUARY ONLY OFFERED TO GUN HUNTERS A MIND BLOWING 50+ DAYS A YEAR. Bow hunters don't walk and stalk, shoot at deer running, shoot at deer they jump up, etc. I think that this is what pressures the deer. Bow hunters actually TRY to keep the pressure down, where as (especially on public land) I see orange vests walking around ALL DAY LONG! When asked what they are doing... they are "scouting"... during season on a Saturday at lunch time...???? Bow hunters are just more aware of pressure because it is more important. It's not that we want to keep the woods to ourselves, its that we would drastically kill our chances trying to bow hunt while you are stomping around shooting at deer with a rifle all day. (I know that's how you hunt, I spy on you from my airplane). You don't have to admit it, but I know you get my point. You also know that you can shoot a x-bow if you want an easy hunt AND more days in the woods. You just like stirring the pot.

As for your earlier A-Hole and "riling the newbies" comment, I think it is a true shame that the most knowledgeable asset to this site for deer behavior and management takes pride in being an A-Hole to newbies. Please realize that newbies to this site are more than likely not newbie hunters, and we all have something to give and take from this site. Trying to run them in the ground by being Big Pete does not help anyone but your ego. I love your input when it comes to anything technical, but I hate that you think it's cool that the older members "look the other way" when you are expressing your "Jerkasourous" title.


Edited by Urban_Hunter (12/12/12 10:19 AM)
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#3075655 - 12/12/12 10:36 AM Re: Should TN Go to All Weapons Season? [Re: Urban_Hunter]
MUP
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Registered: 08/01/07
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Dang. I don't think all "orange vests" are as you say either Urban Hunter. I know I'm not. And I'd venture to say that some bow hunters are the same as well. Just my opinion.
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#3075666 - 12/12/12 10:44 AM Re: Should TN Go to All Weapons Season? [Re: MUP]
Urban_Hunter
8 Point


Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 1694
Loc: TN

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 Originally Posted By: MUP
Dang. I don't think all "orange vests" are as you say either Urban Hunter. I know I'm not. And I'd venture to say that some bow hunters are the same as well. Just my opinion.


No, many gun hunters are not. I'm an "orange vest" too during gun season, and this isn't how I hunt. But, I have killed deer while walking in/out of the woods. I think when deer see someone walking, see them shoot, see their buddy die, run away... that is when they become pressured. When deer see someone walking, see them stop, see them walk away... they do not see you as a serious threat. That was my point, not that gun hunters are wild and crazy, just that by nature it puts more pressure on the deer.

I gun hunt the full gun season... with a gun. I know I am less concerned about everything that pressures deer, from scent to sound, when it comes that time of year. Its because it is less important. 100 yds in gun season is 10 yds in bow season.


Edited by Urban_Hunter (12/12/12 10:44 AM)
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I used to be indecisive. Now I'm not sure.

You're never to old to learn something stupid.

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#3075670 - 12/12/12 10:48 AM Re: Should TN Go to All Weapons Season? [Re: Urban_Hunter]
TNDeerGuy
12 Point


Registered: 11/28/06
Posts: 6163
Loc: Old Hickory/Mt.Juliet, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Urban_Hunter
 Originally Posted By: BSK


Unfortunately, that philosophy, which benefits the most hunters, is often up against entrenched minority groups who want to limit others hunting time so they get more hunting time with less competition from other hunters, and the opportunity to hunt "less pressured" deer. That selfish goal, and the minority groups that push it, really irk me.


Ha, you make us sound like terrorists. Entrenched minority groups?
We are not entrenched nor are we a "minority group". We are not an organized group and do not hold rallies to fight off the machine of Big Gun Socialists. It also isn't a goal, your proposal would be a goal considering that it is something you want but do not have. I wish you would also realize that we do not want to limit others hunting time. I have never met a hunter that I haven't tried to peer pressure into bow hunting. It would suit me just fine if every single gun hunter owned a bow. IM NOT JOKING, GO GET A BOW OR X-BOW YOU WON'T OFFEND ANYONE BY INVADING THEIR PRIVATE BOW SEASON SANCTUARY ONLY OFFERED TO GUN HUNTERS A MIND BLOWING 50+ DAYS A YEAR. Bow hunters don't walk and stalk, shoot at deer running, shoot at deer they jump up, etc. I think that this is what pressures the deer. Bow hunters actually TRY to keep the pressure down, where as (especially on public land) I see orange vests walking around ALL DAY LONG! When asked what they are doing... they are "scouting"... during season on a Saturday at lunch time...???? Bow hunters are just more aware of pressure because it is more important. It's not that we want to keep the woods to ourselves, its that we would drastically kill our chances trying to bow hunt while you are stomping around shooting at deer with a rifle all day. (I know that's how you hunt, I spy on you from my airplane). You don't have to admit it, but I know you get my point. You also know that you can shoot a x-bow if you want an easy hunt AND more days in the woods. You just like stirring the pot.

As for your earlier A-Hole and "riling the newbies" comment, I think it is a true shame that the most knowledgeable asset to this site for deer behavior and management takes pride in being an A-Hole to newbies. Please realize that newbies to this site are more than likely not newbie hunters, and we all have something to give and take from this site. Trying to run them in the ground by being Big Pete does not help anyone but your ego. I love your input when it comes to anything technical, but I hate that you think it's cool that the older members "look the other way" when you are expressing your "Jerkasourous" title.


Great post Urban, I couldn't agree more—trolling, regardless of who it is or the reason, is a very immature/unneccesary way to get a point across.

I do believe that if BSK hunted public land only, like a significant portion of us do, instead of his well-managed private land, his position/attitude would very likely change.

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#3075672 - 12/12/12 10:52 AM Re: Should TN Go to All Weapons Season? [Re: Urban_Hunter]
Urban_Hunter
8 Point


Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 1694
Loc: TN

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I guess what I'm getting at, is that it isn't the sheer number of hunters that bow hunters are worried about. It is the style of hunting we are worried about. I think if the season went like BSK suggests I would probably kill at least as many, if not more deer per year as I do now. It is just more enjoyable and rewarding to kill them with a bow, and I would not carry a bow if I could carry a rifle. I think the season is balanced pretty well now and gives everyone the same opportunities. If BSK was SERIOUSLY concerned about hunting the extra days, I think he would bow hunt. Other than "I just don't want to", I would like to hear his reason for not bow hunting. As honestly as I can possibly be, I truly don't agree with BSK suggesting that we want the woods to ourselves. We are more than happy to share them with all, and now TWRA makes that possible with the semi-new X-Bow laws. Anyone of any age that can hunt with a gun can feasibly hunt with a bow. I just don't see how this is unfair.
_________________________
I used to be indecisive. Now I'm not sure.

You're never to old to learn something stupid.

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#3075675 - 12/12/12 10:53 AM Re: Should TN Go to All Weapons Season? [Re: Urban_Hunter]
Wes Parrish
16 Point


Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 19448
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN

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Again, let's keep in perspective that a super-majority of "bowhunters" are also orange-vested "gun hunters" who kill most of their deer with a gun.

Most "bowhunters" would all but stop bowhunting should rifles be legalized during what has traditionally been archery season. I'm not wanting that to happen, but if if did, imo, as soon as the "new" wore off, we would again see relatively few hunters in the woods (regardless of weapons in hands) on the traditional early archery days?

Why? Because the hunters wouldn't see that many deer in the warmer weather and pre-rut. Most hunters would still do more of their deer hunting in November, although by shifting some of their vacation days spent hunting to Sept-Oct, we might actually see fewer gun hunters during November?

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#3075682 - 12/12/12 10:55 AM Re: Should TN Go to All Weapons Season? [Re: TNDeerGuy]
Urban_Hunter
8 Point


Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 1694
Loc: TN

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 Originally Posted By: TNDeerGuy


Great post Urban, I couldn't agree more—trolling, regardless of who it is or the reason, is a very immature/unneccesary way to get a point across.

I do believe that if BSK hunted public land only, like a significant portion of us do, instead of his well-managed private land, his position/attitude would very likely change.


Thanks. And I think you are right, I think a large portion of us hunt public land and these lands cannot compare to vast ranges of privately managed land.
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I used to be indecisive. Now I'm not sure.

You're never to old to learn something stupid.

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