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#3057697 - 11/30/12 10:07 PM Something That Needs To Be Thought About!!
SJB
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Registered: 08/01/12
Posts: 15
Loc: East TN

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What I want to know is how do you get yourself a ticket wrote when you haven't done anything wrong? It's only because you cant get out of the WMA because the gates have been locked and there is no ranger anywhere to be found. The gates were said to be locked at 6:50 and we made it to the gates by 6:50 to 7:00 and nobody is to be seen so it takes 10 to 15 minutes to walk to the ranger's house and he is already in shorts and a t shirt and about to eat supper. He finally comes to the door and is told the situation and says just hang tight he is going to eat first. Then comes in about 20 minutes and unlocks the gate and gives us a ticket for trespassing on WMA property because he said he gives an hour after sunset to get out and I always thought that was when it was dark not a set time. All we done was hunted until sunset and then picked each other up and headed out, the ranger said you should have thought about that. Well he needs to think about what if somebody has killed a deer way back in there right at dark? There is no way they could get out in an hour, and what if you have car trouble or anything. These things need to be thought about at this WMA, because the gates were locked before any 6:50 too, because the ranger was already home and changed and about to eat before 6:50 to 7:00.

Edited by SJB (11/30/12 10:09 PM)

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#3057714 - 11/30/12 10:25 PM Re: Something That Needs To Be Thought About!! [Re: SJB]
Mr.x
Spike


Registered: 11/06/12
Posts: 49
Loc: Cannon

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that is awful! Sometimes thinking of how it feels in the other guys shoes may make them have "some" compassion. We need more Andy's and less Barney's. How much did it cost you?
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#3057728 - 11/30/12 10:40 PM Re: Something That Needs To Be Thought About!! [Re: Mr.x]
travle
4 Point


Registered: 10/16/12
Posts: 206
Loc: NW Tenn

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Well it seems like the problem is he had a stick up his rear, though the WMA hunting hours state you must be out by 1 hour after sunset which would put you out by probably 6:30..being so close to time comes to him having a little compassion and not being so rude. I think they should have to cruise the parking spots to make sure people are out before they lock you in there. And then make a judgement call on the ticket based on your time out of there. Say if you're still in there at 8 or so. But being there at or right after the gates are said to be locked isn't room for a ticket.
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#3057733 - 11/30/12 10:44 PM Re: Something That Needs To Be Thought About!! [Re: travle]
pass-thru
10 Point


Registered: 10/10/04
Posts: 3611
Loc: va beach

Offline
Go to your court date and see what happens.
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#3057748 - 11/30/12 11:19 PM Re: Something That Needs To Be Thought About!! [Re: pass-thru]
fourwheeler431
14 Point


Registered: 09/05/06
Posts: 8510
Loc: Powell

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Official sunset was 5:21pm today wasn't. Like pass-thru said you can always see what the judge says.
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#3057908 - 12/01/12 07:42 AM Re: Something That Needs To Be Thought About!! [Re: fourwheeler431]
pick-a-spot
Spike


Registered: 09/01/11
Posts: 70
Loc: Tennessee

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While that ranger is handing me a ticket I would mention that a little consideration for hunters who pay his salary might be in order.
Sounds like the type that likes to throw his weight around. Seen that type before.
On the other hand you should ask for his phone number so you can call him next time if you run late. Also keep track of sunset times.
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"We go into the woods to discover the truth of things."

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#3057924 - 12/01/12 08:01 AM Re: Something That Needs To Be Thought About!! [Re: pick-a-spot]
catman529
spiderboy
16 Point


Registered: 11/10/10
Posts: 16658
Loc: Franklin TN

confused Online
The WMA I'm hunting now technically closes the gates at dark but for the quota hunts they have left it open so hunters can come in early and not get locked in if it take a while to get out. Sounds like your ranger has a problem understanding what deer hunting is...
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#3057932 - 12/01/12 08:14 AM Re: Something That Needs To Be Thought About!! [Re: pick-a-spot]
BigGameGuy
TWRA Biologist
12 Point


Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 6612
Loc: Nashville

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Not trying to be hard-nosed, just offering the other side of the argument. Officers use great discretion 99% of the time but rules are rules. You mention, "what if you had a deer or what if you had car trouble?" Did you have either of these? This is where officer discretion comes into play. If hunting regulations are meant as guidelines for hunters just to be "close to" then the Hunting Guide would simply be a "book of suggestions". If that were to occur, then few rules would ever stand up in court. Most officers I know don't enjoy writing tickets especially in those situations, however, that's their job. It is now the judges job to decide if the citation is warranted. Having said that, I understand your frustration. Good luck in court.
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If given the choice between education and regulation, I'll choose education every time.

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#3057937 - 12/01/12 08:19 AM Re: Something That Needs To Be Thought About!! [Re: catman529]
coontracker49
Spike


Registered: 11/27/12
Posts: 53
Loc: TN

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Its simple we pay for wma stamps and the wildlife resources have no control on when forestry shuts the gates I have went off about this more than once it does no good I hounestly believe a wma permit is a joke considering they closed all gates down last year before x-mas and they are talk about doing it again on the 17th SO me personally I think forestry and TWRA need to get together and say we have people paying for a wma stamp and they arent getting to use them all hunting season how can we work this to comply when you all shut the gates.
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#3057943 - 12/01/12 08:22 AM Re: Something That Needs To Be Thought About!! [Re: coontracker49]
corymhoward
6 Point


Registered: 05/04/08
Posts: 876
Loc: Bruceton

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Dismissed.....just my guess
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#3057951 - 12/01/12 08:24 AM Re: Something That Needs To Be Thought About!! [Re: coontracker49]
BigGameGuy
TWRA Biologist
12 Point


Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 6612
Loc: Nashville

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TWRA and especially our commissioners have been working hard to keep the gates open during hunting season. Unfortunately the U.S. Forest Service has the final say on Forest Service lands. They close them to keep the roads from being damaged in the winter since they do not have the funds to repair them.
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If given the choice between education and regulation, I'll choose education every time.

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#3057952 - 12/01/12 08:24 AM Re: Something That Needs To Be Thought About!! [Re: pick-a-spot]
BMan
16 Point


Registered: 02/06/06
Posts: 10565
Loc: Middle TN

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 Originally Posted By: pick-a-spot
While that ranger is handing me a ticket I would mention that a little consideration for hunters who pay his salary might be in order.

The old "You work for me" argument doesn't work often. Well, doesn't work out WELL anyway.

 Originally Posted By: pick-a-spot
Also keep track of sunset times.

Yep.
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#3057969 - 12/01/12 08:32 AM Re: Something That Needs To Be Thought About!! [Re: BMan]
easy45
Non-Typical


Registered: 11/06/07
Posts: 29408
Loc: Chester County

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I'm curious, where was this at
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#3057994 - 12/01/12 08:50 AM Re: Something That Needs To Be Thought About!! [Re: easy45]
Poser
Mud Dauber
16 Point


Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 12881
Loc: Tennessee

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What about Coon hunters?
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#3058086 - 12/01/12 10:08 AM Re: Something That Needs To Be Thought About!! [Re: SJB]
Buzzard Breath
8 Point


Registered: 07/31/06
Posts: 1647
Loc: East

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Lets break this down and analyze it.

 Originally Posted By: SJB
What I want to know is how do you get yourself a ticket wrote when you haven't done anything wrong?

That is what are court system is for. If you didn't do anything wrong, they will dismiss charges

 Originally Posted By: SJB
It's only because you cant get out of the WMA because the gates have been locked and there is no ranger anywhere to be found.

Rangers (his word, not mine) should man all gates 24/7.

 Originally Posted By: SJB
The gates were said to be locked at 6:50 and we made it to the gates by 6:50 to 7:00 and nobody is to be seen

Wait a second..... I thought you just said you didn't do anything wrong? Now, you're saying you were late.

 Originally Posted By: SJB
so it takes 10 to 15 minutes to walk to the ranger's house

TWRA really needs to do something about this. I'm going to immediately write to the commissioners and demand that they put Segway's at all gates so I don't have to walk when locked in.

 Originally Posted By: SJB
..he is already in shorts and a t shirt and about to eat supper. He finally comes to the door and is told the situation and says just hang tight he is going to eat first. Then comes in about 20 minutes and unlocks the gate

At least he had on shorts. I can't believe he wouldn't immediately drop everything and come running like you were a damsel in distress. The nerve of these Rangers, thinking that they should actully have some time away from their jobs. At this point, you should have pointed out to him that it's your license fees that pay his salary and that he should be there to serve you 24/7(sounds like you may have done this already). That always seems to keep them on there toes. LOL


 Originally Posted By: SJB
...and gives us a ticket for trespassing on WMA property because he said he gives an hour after sunset to get out and I always thought that was when it was dark not a set time.

TWRA really needs to develop an automated text message service that constantly sends us messages letting us know exactly what the rules are while we are on WMA's. We shouldn't have to read the rule book.

 Originally Posted By: SJB
Well he needs to think about what if somebody has killed a deer way back in there right at dark? There is no way they could get out in an hour, and what if you have car trouble or anything.

I sure had you shown up late with a deer that needed to be checked in or were broke down somewhere, he would have confiscated the deer, your weapon, your truck, and maybe even your first born child. Them Rangers are just out to get us.


 Originally Posted By: SJB
These things need to be thought about at this WMA, because the gates were locked before any 6:50 too, because the ranger was already home and changed and about to eat before 6:50 to 7:00.

Don't you mean that he was "already home and changed and about to eat before 7:00 to 7:10". You've already admitted that you didn't get to the gate any earlier than 6:50. Then you had a 10 minute walk to his house. So, that would put you at his house at 7:00 at the earliest. Correct? I'm not sure how long it takes you to get changed, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't take me any longer than 47 seconds.

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#3058146 - 12/01/12 11:05 AM Re: Something That Needs To Be Thought About!! [Re: easy45]
SES
8 Point


Registered: 10/13/11
Posts: 1257
Loc: Corryton, Tn

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 Originally Posted By: easy45
I'm curious, where was this at
Since SJB lives in East Tennessee, I would venture to guess it was Chuck Swan.

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#3058168 - 12/01/12 11:27 AM Re: Something That Needs To Be Thought About!! [Re: SJB]
Meathunter73
6 Point


Registered: 08/18/11
Posts: 633
Loc: waynesboro

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Sounds like the Ranger was in bad mood and lost a good chance to educate and show a little understanding. Anybody that has not ran behind on getting out of woods has not done much hunting. Don't know both sides of story but sounds like Ranger could have given warning that way if it was legit excuse you know not to let it happen again. I think everyone on this site appreciates a little slack every now and then, but if Ranger wants to write a ticket he has every right.Pay it or go to court and move on.


Edited by Meathunter (12/01/12 11:29 AM)

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#3058209 - 12/01/12 11:53 AM Re: Something That Needs To Be Thought About!! [Re: Buzzard Breath]
SJB
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Registered: 08/01/12
Posts: 15
Loc: East TN

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It was my first time deer hunting there in my life and yes buzz mcmanus you can say we didnt get there any earlier than 6:50, but we went to one gate and seen it was locked so then we went to another one to see if it was open and that is when we went to his house after we seen the second gate was locked. But oh well I can let things go pretty easy and I dont think the fine and court cost will be to bad since it will be split between 4 of us. I just never knew there was a set time to get out, but I guess we will know now!!
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#3058222 - 12/01/12 12:05 PM Re: Something That Needs To Be Thought About!! [Re: SJB]
pcrc
8 Point


Registered: 10/12/09
Posts: 1232
Loc: Knoxville

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 Originally Posted By: SJB
It was my first time deer hunting there in my life and yes buzz mcmanus you can say we didnt get there any earlier than 6:50, but we went to one gate and seen it was locked so then we went to another one to see if it was open and that is when we went to his house after we seen the second gate was locked. But oh well I can let things go pretty easy and I dont think the fine and court cost will be to bad since it will be split between 4 of us. I just never knew there was a set time to get out, but I guess we will know now!!

Why was there only one ticket wrote? If there was four of you why didn't each one of you get a ticket.

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#3058351 - 12/01/12 03:01 PM Re: Something That Needs To Be Thought About!! [Re: pcrc]
SJB
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Registered: 08/01/12
Posts: 15
Loc: East TN

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Because it was issued to the driver
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#3058368 - 12/01/12 03:16 PM Re: Something That Needs To Be Thought About!! [Re: SJB]
pcrc
8 Point


Registered: 10/12/09
Posts: 1232
Loc: Knoxville

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 Originally Posted By: SJB
Because it was issued to the driver

Than maybe he did go easy on you all as it would seem to me he could have written each one of you a ticket, or am I wrong. Do you have to be driving a vehicle to be considered trespassing on a WMA that closes at dark?

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#3058495 - 12/01/12 04:52 PM Re: Something That Needs To Be Thought About!! [Re: pcrc]
SJB
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Registered: 08/01/12
Posts: 15
Loc: East TN

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I never said he didn't go easy on us. I just think something like this was just a misunderstanding and could have went off as a warning. I think the ranger was just mad he had to put his suit back on and come down there, but it's all good!!
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#3058912 - 12/01/12 09:03 PM Re: Something That Needs To Be Thought About!! [Re: SJB]
travle
4 Point


Registered: 10/16/12
Posts: 206
Loc: NW Tenn

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I'm with ya SJB 100%, but i made sure i read the regulations while hunting on WMAs which is all deer hunters must be out by 1 hour after sunset. But lets look at the kicker here. Deer hunting legal shooting hours in the evening is up to 30 minutes after legal sunset times. so if legal sunset time for that day is 5:20 you have until 5:50 to shoot a deer which is usually about the end of civil twilight for that day. Say you shoot one at 5:45 then you only have until 6:20 which is 35 mins to track your deer and get it out of the woods and loaded up. Those laws contradict each other by only giving you 30 minutes to get out or cutting your hunting time by 30 minutes.

Edited by travle (12/01/12 09:07 PM)

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#3059024 - 12/02/12 12:00 AM Re: Something That Needs To Be Thought About!! [Re: travle]
Poser
Mud Dauber
16 Point


Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 12881
Loc: Tennessee

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Personally, I couldn't function under those kinds of parameters. I would either work to get the regs changes or find another place to hunt. More times than not, a evening kill will be in the last 20 minutes of shooting light. This is after sunset. If you kill a deer in the evening, you're going to be trespassing, pretty much simple as that. Somethings got to give. Do they not allow coon hunting there?
_________________________
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Wild & crazy, can't be stopped. Only the strong will survive.

Keep your knife sharp and your skillet greasy.

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#3059025 - 12/02/12 12:14 AM Re: Something That Needs To Be Thought About!! [Re: corymhoward]
redblood
16 Point


Registered: 01/22/06
Posts: 14802
Loc: Lewisburg

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yep. go to court. they will toss it
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#3059058 - 12/02/12 04:40 AM Re: Something That Needs To Be Thought About!! [Re: Poser]
Buzzard Breath
8 Point


Registered: 07/31/06
Posts: 1647
Loc: East

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 Originally Posted By: Poser
Do they not allow coon hunting there?

He hasn't posted where this occurred, but with him being from E. TN and hunting on a gated WMA where they open and close it daily, I think it would be a safe bet to say he hunted the Chuck Swan draw hunt. In which case, there are only 7 scheduled coon hunts that have already occurred back in the first part of November. No open coon hunts.

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#3059062 - 12/02/12 04:45 AM Re: Something That Needs To Be Thought About!! [Re: SJB]
Boone 58
16 Point


Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 14876
Loc: Food Plot

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 Originally Posted By: SJB
What I want to know is how do you get yourself a ticket wrote when you haven't done anything wrong? It's only because you cant get out of the WMA because the gates have been locked and there is no ranger anywhere to be found. The gates were said to be locked at 6:50 and we made it to the gates by 6:50 to 7:00 and nobody is to be seen so it takes 10 to 15 minutes to walk to the ranger's house and he is already in shorts and a t shirt and about to eat supper. He finally comes to the door and is told the situation and says just hang tight he is going to eat first. Then comes in about 20 minutes and unlocks the gate and gives us a ticket for trespassing on WMA property because he said he gives an hour after sunset to get out and I always thought that was when it was dark not a set time. All we done was hunted until sunset and then picked each other up and headed out, the ranger said you should have thought about that. Well he needs to think about what if somebody has killed a deer way back in there right at dark? There is no way they could get out in an hour, and what if you have car trouble or anything. These things need to be thought about at this WMA, because the gates were locked before any 6:50 too, because the ranger was already home and changed and about to eat before 6:50 to 7:00.


That is not in the spirit of the rule/law. He is in the wrong attitude with that if done as you described. I would fight it.
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#3060584 - 12/03/12 12:28 AM Re: Something That Needs To Be Thought About!! [Re: corymhoward]
reloaderman
4 Point


Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 124
Loc: tennessee

Offline
If they do not dismiss the ticket and you happen to be "late" and find the gate locked again. next time take chain out of truck, hook chain to gate, pull gate down, unhook chain and go home...results--no disturbed ranger and no ticket!!!!just kidding, but it sure would be tempting and they should dismiss it...
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#3060810 - 12/03/12 08:21 AM Re: Something That Needs To Be Thought About!! [Re: reloaderman]
TNDeerGuy
12 Point


Registered: 11/28/06
Posts: 6098
Loc: Old Hickory/Mt.Juliet, TN

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That will/should get dismissed if you go into court with the right attitude and explain the whole TWRA legal 30-minutes after sunset rule and having to have time to get down, pack up and walk more than 100 ft back to the truck and drive out thing and be apologetic towards the ranger.
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#3060959 - 12/03/12 10:03 AM Re: Something That Needs To Be Thought About!! [Re: TNDeerGuy]
Winchester
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Registered: 12/05/03
Posts: 27614
Loc: TN

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Yep sounds like your dealing with a lazy cull that locks the gates whenever he wants instead of the posted times? Take it to court and any decent judge will throw it out and scold him for not doing his job and using a lil common sense to boot!
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#3061330 - 12/03/12 02:05 PM Re: Something That Needs To Be Thought About!! [Re: Winchester]
in the dog house!
14 Point


Registered: 11/29/12
Posts: 9393
Loc: west tn

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For sure should be dismissed !!!!
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#3061525 - 12/03/12 04:22 PM Re: Something That Needs To Be Thought About!! [Re: in the dog house!]
pcrc
8 Point


Registered: 10/12/09
Posts: 1232
Loc: Knoxville

Offline
If this was Chuck Swan it can easily take 30-40 minutes to drive from the "forks of the river" all the way back to the gate. If you hunt even till sunset, come out of the tree, pack up your stand, walk to the truck, load up and then drive out you would be very hard pressed to be out of there in an hour if you are anywhere in the back of the WMA.
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#3062089 - 12/03/12 08:49 PM Re: Something That Needs To Be Thought About!! [Re: SJB]
mq32
4 Point


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 106
Loc: Claiborne County, Tn

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 Originally Posted By: SJB
What I want to know is how do you get yourself a ticket wrote when you haven't done anything wrong? It's only because you cant get out of the WMA because the gates have been locked and there is no ranger anywhere to be found. The gates were said to be locked at 6:50 and we made it to the gates by 6:50 to 7:00 and nobody is to be seen so it takes 10 to 15 minutes to walk to the ranger's house and he is already in shorts and a t shirt and about to eat supper. He finally comes to the door and is told the situation and says just hang tight he is going to eat first. Then comes in about 20 minutes and unlocks the gate and gives us a ticket for trespassing on WMA property because he said he gives an hour after sunset to get out and I always thought that was when it was dark not a set time. All we done was hunted until sunset and then picked each other up and headed out, the ranger said you should have thought about that. Well he needs to think about what if somebody has killed a deer way back in there right at dark? There is no way they could get out in an hour, and what if you have car trouble or anything. These things need to be thought about at this WMA, because the gates were locked before any 6:50 too, because the ranger was already home and changed and about to eat before 6:50 to 7:00.


You made it to the gate by 6:50 to 7:00? I am assuming it was closer to 7:00. If you had made it by 6:50 you would have probably seen him.Then you said he was alreay home and ready to eat at 6:50 to 7:00. You said it was a 10-15 minute walk. He could have been home for 20 minutes and still locked the gates at 6:50.
I only hunt at Chuck Swan every other year for turkeys, but the people there are always nice and helpful. Of course I know to be out of the woods by 1:00 too. Just stop and think, wonder how many other times this year the have had to let someone else out that didn't get out in time. We all know what le4gal shooting time is in TN, that doesn't apply on WMA's when they say the gate closes at a certain time.
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