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#3054516 - 11/29/12 07:13 AM Re: here they come for you 401k [Re: MUP]
16 Point

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 10574
Loc: Warren Co

 Originally Posted By: MUP
“This whole issue is moving forward very quickly,” warns Crone. “Already there is a bill requiring all businesses to automatically enroll their employees in IRA plans in which part of every employee’s paycheck would be automatically deducted and deposited into this account. If this passes, the government will be just one step away from being able to confiscate all these retirement accounts.”

What the heck can we do then, if we're just lowly pions working a 6-3 job and don't own our own business? Looks like we're gonna get it regardless of what we do.

Start getting the word out. Yeah, you are going to have to be one of "those" guys. Tell your friends, family, co-workers. Ask your boss of the entire company can take a couple hours off and go to your state senator and reps office. Politely tell them "enough of this crap! Kill this bill or I will dedicate 40 hours a week to your recall and opponents in the next election, after all, YOU put me out of work."

When you or people you know get laid off due to government actions (obumbla care etc...) spend a day camping out in your elected representatives offices. Encourage others to do the same. Don't be a D-shnozzle like those occupy clowns, be a respectful concerned citizen. The kind of guy who takes care of business and would be a BIG asset in an election campaign.

Most elected reps feel pretty untouchable. Once the populace starts showing up at their offices on a regular basis, even the king of France started getting jittery.
If you can't trust people with freedom, how can you trust them with power ?

#3054928 - 11/29/12 11:18 AM Re: here they come for you 401k [Re: fishboy1]
10 Point

Registered: 02/24/03
Posts: 4408
Loc: USA

So, If I cash in my 401k, what do I do with the money? Invest in gold, silver, rental property, land? I don't have much faith in the stock market.
"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him --- better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford

#3055033 - 11/29/12 12:26 PM Re: here they come for you 401k [Re: dr]
10 Point

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 4034
Loc: Cuba (near Memphis)

Does Government Want To Drain Americans' 401(k) Plan?
Posted 11/28/2012 06:39 PM ET

War On Wealth: As Washington debates what to do about the fiscal cliff that it foolishly created, many potential sources of new revenue will be thrown on the table. One of them is likely to be 401(k) plans.

Retirement is an American's reasonable expectation. We put money into investment plans so that our work today funds our hard-earned leisure of tomorrow.

But many in Washington see our investment accounts not as the expressions of well-planned, disciplined decisions but as untapped reservoirs of wealth they can drain to fix the problems that they caused.

The tax protection that 401(k)s have now can be wiped out by grasping politicians who refuse to do what's right, which is to severely cut spending.

The war on retirement, particularly 401(k)s, is quiet now. But that's because it's a cold war.

And like the postwar tensions between the East and West, it could erupt at any time into a hot war.

One group of retirement plan professionals is warning that the hostilities might be closer than many of us think. The American Society of Pension Professionals and Actuaries launched on Monday, according to Reuters, "a media campaign intended to educate U.S. employers and workers that the federal government might consider changing the tax benefits of retirement savings accounts."

A website set up by the ASPPA advises account holders to tell lawmakers to "keep their hands off your retirement savings" and explains that "Congress needs to reduce the deficit, and part of deficit reduction will most likely be 'tax reform' that increases tax revenue" — the strong suggestion being that Washington is coming after Americans' 401(k)s.

If the ASPPA were alone in issuing its warnings, it could be written off as the hyperbole of an isolated group. But Washington's lust for Americans' retirement investments is well documented.

President Obama's National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform, for instance, proposed lowering the cap on the amount workers could place in their 401(k)s without incurring taxes.

And nearly three years ago, Newt Gingrich and Peter Ferrara wrote on these pages about the Treasury and Labor departments "asking for public comment on 'the conversion of 401(k) savings and Individual Retirement Accounts into annuities or other steady payment streams.'"

"In plain English," said Gingrich and Ferrara, "the idea is for the government to take your retirement savings in return for a promise to pay you some monthly benefit in your retirement years."

More than 60 million American workers have a 401(k) or similar — 403(b) or 457(b) — plan. But taxing these accounts or lowering the amount that can be contributed to them tax-free would do little to close the deficit and cut the debt.

Total assets in 401(k)s are roughly $3 trillion. So even if they were seized in their entirety, they would merely retire less than 19% of Washington's $16.3 trillion debt.

Taxed at 50%, 401(k)s would narrowly cover the $1.3 trillion deficit that Washington rang up in 2012.

Already a large chunk of America's retirement is held in the federal government's hands. Between 1937 and 2009, Social Security took in nearly $14 trillion in payroll tax revenue.

In all but 11 of those years, the government collected more than it spent on benefits.

Yet despite all the surpluses, the Social Security program is in financial trouble and Congress needs more revenue to fix it, just as it is looking for more of other people's money to avoid the fiscal cliff plunge.

Don't think for a minute that 401(k)s aren't on the table as a part of the solution.

And when they are served up in front of hungry politicians, they can be quickly devoured. All that will be left for the account holders will be a few crumbs.

#3055047 - 11/29/12 12:34 PM Re: here they come for you 401k [Re: Hogbear]
10 Point

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 4034
Loc: Cuba (near Memphis)


Fiscal Cliff: Why Congress Might Have to Mess with the 401(k)
By Dan Kadlec
Nov. 28, 2012

One of the earliest fears about tax-favored savings accounts like IRAs and 401(k) plans was that when this pool of savings grew large enough Congress would not be able to resist tapping it to help solve the nation’s debt problems. We’re about to find out if those fears—persistent for decades—have been justified.

Everything including the sacred mortgage deduction is on the table as lawmakers wrestle with the fiscal cliff, a year-end avalanche of scheduled spending cuts and tax increases. With a combined $10 trillion sitting in IRAs and 401(k) plans, retirement accounts make a juicy target. Some of this money has never been taxed, and under current law never will be.

To maintain this savings incentive the government “spends” $100 billion a year in the form of tax breaks to those who stash money in these kinds of accounts. Now, a new study suggests this tax incentive does little to change saving behavior. Some lawmakers, no doubt, are wondering: Why keep an expensive tax incentive that does not incent?

The study, reported in The New York Times, comes from Raj Chetty and John N. Friedman of Harvard, Soren Leth-Petersen and Tore Olsen of the University of Copenhagen, and Torben Heien Nielsen of the Danish National Center for Social Research. It looked at data from Denmark, where the pension system is similar to that in the U.S., and found that every dollar that government spent on tax breaks increased total savings by about one penny.

That’s not much of a payoff. Meanwhile, the Tax Policy Center in Washington has found that about 80% of retirement savings benefits flow to the top 20% of earners. Eliminating the deduction for retirement savings would hit the well-off disproportionately, a condition with a lot of appeal in the current political climate.

Trying to head off this line of thinking, the American Society of Pension Professionals & Actuaries recently launched a save-my-401(k) campaign, encouraging workers to email their representatives in congress. The group notes that having a 401(k) plan is the single most important factor in determining if a worker is saving for retirement and that families with a retirement savings account, on average, have two-thirds of their assets in that account.

Yet the Danish study suggests that little would change if the tax incentives were removed. Only 15% of savers actively respond to tax incentives, the study found. Far more important are features like automatic enrollment and contribution rates that automatically increase with pay raises.

So hold on to your wallet. Congress has many options when it comes to tapping this vast reservoir. It could eliminate the deduction altogether or just for top earners, further restrict the amount that is deductible (currently $17,500; for those over 50, $23,000), start taxing retirement savings growth, or take back the part that has grown tax-free.

In the throes of a retirement savings crisis, none of these options is appealing. But that last one is most troublesome. At stake is any savings that has accrued tax-free in a Roth IRA. Tax-deferred growth could be a target too if you find yourself in a lower tax bracket in retirement. There is no discernible momentum behind such measures. But a retroactive tax on this sheltered income has been a worry from the start. And now these accounts have a meaningful total—and everything is on the table.

Read more:

#3055133 - 11/29/12 01:22 PM Re: here they come for you 401k [Re: Hogbear]
16 Point

Registered: 10/23/01
Posts: 19750
Loc: Antioch TN

To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;"The greatest pain a man can suffer is to have knowledge of much, and power over nothing" - Herodotus

#3055536 - 11/29/12 05:35 PM Re: here they come for you 401k [Re: Hangnail]
16 Point

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 16574
Loc: Tampa FL

Get a rope
"The fore horse of this frightful team is public debt. Taxation follow that, and in its turn wretchedness and oppression."
--Thomas Jefferson
18 Trillion

#3057069 - 11/30/12 02:50 PM Re: here they come for you 401k [Re: FLTENNHUNTER1]
Greg .
aPoStROpHe PolIcE
16 Point

Registered: 08/24/04
Posts: 11122
Loc: NC Piedmonts

Article I - The Legislative Branch
Section 9

Clause 3:

No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.

.... not that they EVER gave a $#!% about the Constitution ...
Abandon all rational and unbiased thought. Just blame Boooosh.
lIbeRaLs LIE ... lazy lIbeRaLs repeat LIES.
Ø :

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