Tndeer Logo

Page 3 of 4 <1234>
Topic Options
#547278 - 01/02/08 02:01 PM Re: Baiting vs. Food Plots [Re: BSK]
grundsow
4 Point


Registered: 04/03/01
Posts: 284
Loc: Berks County, PA

Offline
 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: grundsow
I mean, first of all baiting and supplemental feeding are lumped together, which seems to me to give baiting a bad rap by association.


Which it should. They are equally as dangerous.


Baiting vs. Feeding - I’d like to revisit this.

After the PGC recently made baiting legal in certain places, I began placing ear corn in front of some of my trailcams in winter after hunting season to see how deer would react. I figure it’s no different than the picked corn fields around here.

You’re telling me though, that you feel this is dangerous biologically?

I mean, I really don’t see larger groups of deer, and I’m not even sure if there are more frequent visits in front of my trailcams when I bait. They simply stay in front of the camera for a longer period of time affording me more pics.

Now I have an opportunity to hunt a new property within the area where hunting over bait is legal. PGC allows no more than 5-gallons of “bait” to be used at a time. I’ve been invited to hunt a small lot to try to reduce deer density. Flowers and shrubs are being eaten at someone’s house as well as the newly planted hardwoods in Tubex and even the evergreens on an adjacent farm now enrolled in some sort of conservation program.

Right now there is a group of about 10 deer that spend the day between a woodlot of about 2-acres or less (3,200 deer per forested sq. mile!!) and their “sanctuary” - an overgrown meadow about another acre or two in size. I don’t have access to the meadow or picked soybean and corn fields (and wouldn't know how to hunt them if I did), so my options are get the deer into the woods somehow where I can hang a treestand. I was thinking baiting.

BTW, haven’t you run baited trailcam surveys?

Top
#548323 - 01/03/08 08:55 AM Re: Baiting vs. Food Plots [Re: ]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65659
Loc: Nashville, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: WhitetailSlayer
BSK - is putting out salt and or mineral licks or loose trace salt bad in your opinion? I understand completely what you are saying about baiting and supplemental feeding, but is there a need in our area (West & Middle TN) for this and does it have any benefits/consequences here????


That's a tough question to answer because of CWD. The high saline environment of a salt lick will kill most living organisms (infectious bacteria and viruses), but there is some theoretical possibility that a high saline environment may actually enhance the CWD prion. At this point that idea is only theoretical. It has not yet been shown that the CWD prion is being transmitted at salt licks. But it is something to consider.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

Top
#548485 - 01/03/08 11:59 AM Re: Baiting vs. Food Plots [Re: ]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65659
Loc: Nashville, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: DUCK37101
Does baiting have a history of being harmful to deer in states where it is legal and if so can you tell me where the articles are that show this?


Duck37101,

Yes, there are known problems with baiting and supplemental feeding. Probably the best reference source I know of is the following PDF document. It is fairly lengthy, but I like it because it discusses many, many published research projects involving both the pros and cons of all forms of supplemental feeding, from trough feeders, to baiting, to food plots. I think it is a very balanced and unbiased report.

http://wildlife1.usask.ca/wildlife_health_topics/wildlife_baiting.pdf

In addition, although unpublished, at the Southeast Deer Study Group (annual scientific symposium concerning research on deer) a couple of years ago, the head of the Southeast Cooperative Disease Study Group gave a speach in which he stated that he believed the supplemental feeding of wildlife was the 2nd greatest threat to wildlife in America today (the #1 threat was the practice of relocating wildlife across long geographic distances for shooting preserves and breeding programs. This practice is the fastest way to spread contagious disease). He pointed out that they are seeing "unknown" disease cropping up where baiting is common. In addition, he pointed out that half of all bait piles they had tested in NC had high enough levels of aflatoxin (a toxin produced by mold that grows on cereal grains, especially corn) to be dangerous to animals.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

Top
#548605 - 01/03/08 02:31 PM Re: Baiting vs. Food Plots [Re: BSK]
grundsow
4 Point


Registered: 04/03/01
Posts: 284
Loc: Berks County, PA

Offline
 Quote:
He pointed out that they are seeing "unknown" disease cropping up where baiting is common. In addition, he pointed out that half of all bait piles they had tested in NC had high enough levels of aflatoxin (a toxin produced by mold that grows on cereal grains, especially corn) to be dangerous to animals.

Page 31 of the report on your link shows a so-called “bait” pile of shelled corn the size of a dump truck load. IMO that is feeding not baiting and I can see how such practices could result in mold contamination.

However, I don’t understand how a 5-gallon bucket of ear corn scattered about could really be considered dangerous.



Top
#548618 - 01/03/08 02:43 PM Re: Baiting vs. Food Plots [Re: grundsow]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65659
Loc: Nashville, TN

Offline
A handful of corn infected with aflatixon could kill a number of animals. It only takes aflatoxin contamination of 20 parts per BILLION to kill a full-grown turkey.

In the winter, aflatoxin is a very low-risk problem, as the cold weather kills the mold. But in summer, corn can become dangerous for wildlife in a matter of a few days of exposure to hot, humid or rainy weather.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

Top
#548878 - 01/03/08 06:23 PM Re: Baiting vs. Food Plots [Re: BSK]
Tennessee Todd
Communicates like Rad
16 Point


Registered: 03/12/99
Posts: 12694
Loc: TuTu City, Tn

Offline
http://www.tele-bait.com
_________________________
This Country might survive Obama but what we won't survive is the mindset that elected him.

Top
#549140 - 01/03/08 08:22 PM Re: Baiting vs. Food Plots [Re: BSK]
hard county
6 Point


Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 558
Loc: hornsby tennessee

Offline
 Originally Posted By: BSK
A handful of corn infected with aflatixon could kill a number of animals. It only takes aflatoxin contamination of 20 parts per BILLION to kill a full-grown turkey.

In the winter, aflatoxin is a very low-risk problem, as the cold weather kills the mold. But in summer, corn can become dangerous for wildlife in a matter of a few days of exposure to hot, humid or rainy weather.

What study shows this? of all the studies i have found 800 ppb was the lowest quantity of alfatoxin which affected deer, turkeys were around the same number.
also bush-hogged corn is illegal to hunt over
IMO alfatoxin is propaganda to keep the TWRA away from the very difficult issue of ethics.
I also find it funny that everyone wants to harp on alfatoxin in
the bagged corn baiting debate when alfatoxin is more prevalent in standing corn than in washed bagged corn.
And finally, when supplemental feeding is done right, corn is rarely used, (most opt for soybean meal, cottonseed meal or protein pelletts), piles on the ground are never used (I prefer a trough type feeder which i can protect from the weather) also I have the ability to clean the feeder and if needed remove all feed.
I also believe that suplemental feeding should be incorporated into a total habitat management program which would include food plots and selective harvest.
_________________________
"The gross heathenism of civilization has generally destroyed nature, and poetry, and all that is spiritual."
John Muir

"The mountains are calling and I must go."
John Muir

Top
#549491 - 01/04/08 07:41 AM Re: Baiting vs. Food Plots [Re: hard county]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65659
Loc: Nashville, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: hard county
 Originally Posted By: BSK
A handful of corn infected with aflatixon could kill a number of animals. It only takes aflatoxin contamination of 20 parts per BILLION to kill a full-grown turkey.

In the winter, aflatoxin is a very low-risk problem, as the cold weather kills the mold. But in summer, corn can become dangerous for wildlife in a matter of a few days of exposure to hot, humid or rainy weather.

What study shows this? of all the studies i have found 800 ppb was the lowest quantity of alfatoxin which affected deer, turkeys were around the same number.


You must be reading the wrong stuff. Alfatoxin is far more deadly to birds than mammals. It can be lethal to turkey at 20 PPB.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

Top
#549502 - 01/04/08 07:48 AM Re: Baiting vs. Food Plots [Re: hard county]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65659
Loc: Nashville, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: hard county

also bush-hogged corn is illegal to hunt over


According to what TWRA personnel have posted on this site, that is not correct.



 Quote:
IMO alfatoxin is propaganda to keep the TWRA away from the very difficult issue of ethics.


I always find that those who fight the scientific truths about aflatixon are usually those with a vested interest. They want to bait and supplementally feed. They're looking for the "quick fix" answer to bigger bucks. I'm not the TWRA, but I strongly advise against both practices, baiting and supplemental feeding. They both are proven problems. I would love to see the TWRA outlaw the feeding of wildlife outside of a 100 yards from a occupied home. That would allow backyard bird feeding but not the trough feeding of wildlife.



 Quote:
I also find it funny that everyone wants to harp on alfatoxin in
the bagged corn baiting debate when alfatoxin is more prevalent in standing corn than in washed bagged corn.


That can be true, but the local Coops in my area don't sell bagged, washed whole-kernal corn. It is simply whatever the local farmers sell to them. And once you put corn out in the environment, mold growth can be immediate.



 Quote:
I also believe that suplemental feeding should be incorporated into a total habitat management program which would include food plots and selective harvest.


I STRONGLY disagree with that.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

Top
#549531 - 01/04/08 08:08 AM Re: Baiting vs. Food Plots [Re: ]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65659
Loc: Nashville, TN

Offline
WhitetailSlayer,

Check out the Quality Deer Management Association's (QDMA's) website:

http://www.qdma.com/

The QDMA was started and is still run by wildlife biologists as a way of educating hunters about deer management.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

Top
Page 3 of 4 <1234>


Moderator:  Bobby G, Unicam, CBU93, stretch, Kimber45, Mrs.Unicam, Crappie Luck 
Hop to:
Top Posters
4105864
RUGER
87575
Deer Assassin
65659
BSK
61375
Crappie Luck
51376
spitndrum
Newest Members
buckslayer85, crose84, Fisher 1959, AKeys, GUIDO
13383 Registered Users
Who's Online
144 registered (L.C. Kid, Harold Money jr, rustyloafer, TRIGGER, f1maxis, mimitk, 14 invisible) and 209 anonymous users online.
Forum Stats
13383 Members
42 Forums
95759 Topics
1121102 Posts

Max Online: 788 @ 11/11/13 08:06 PM
Moon Phase
CURRENT MOON
October
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
Forum Donations
The TnDeer.Com Deer Talk Forum is for Tennessee Deer Hunters by Tennessee Deer Hunters. If you enjoy using our Talk Forum and would like to contribute to help in it's up-keep. Just submit your contribution by clicking on the DONATE button below and paying with PayPal or a major credit card. Any amount is much appreciated. Thanks for your support!

TN Burn Safe

Generated in 0.086 seconds in which 0.001 seconds were spent on a total of 14 queries. Zlib compression enabled.