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#3043421 - 11/21/12 09:41 AM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: ncslickslayer]
Pic IN the Casa
14 Point


Registered: 03/18/11
Posts: 9288
Loc: TN

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18,000 people paid dues to a bunch of fat cat union leaders and all it got them was fired.
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#3043423 - 11/21/12 09:43 AM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: Pic IN the Casa]
Still-n-Quiet
10 Point


Registered: 07/18/06
Posts: 4819
Loc: San Antonio, TX

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 Originally Posted By: Pic IN the Casa
18,000 people paid dues to a bunch of fat cat union leaders and all it got them was fired.



Good. Call that another learning opportunity.
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#3043426 - 11/21/12 09:45 AM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: ncslickslayer]
Vermin93
12 Point


Registered: 12/11/10
Posts: 5330
Loc: Dallas, TX & Signal Mtn, TN

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 Originally Posted By: ncslickslayer
Please read this in its entirety before responding. It obviously has an anti-Repub slant, but with the details included, after reading, is anyone still willing to lay total blame on the Union ?


http://www.politicususa.com/romney-vulture-capitalist-style-management-killed-hostess-unions.html


Two sides to every coin.


Yes, the union still deserves total blame for Hostess shutting down last week. A nonsensical, anti-business, anti-profit article on a website that brands itself as "Real Liberal Politics" does not change that. The Teamsters looked at Hostess's financials in detail and then told the bakery's union that the compnay's financial troubles were real. A few extra hundred thousand dollars in bonuses going to some Hostess executives in recent years may be controversial and a convenient excuse for anti-corporate and anti-capitalist leftists, but Hostess's debt problems are in the many millions of dollars because of unsustainable union contracts, a bad economy, and intense competition. You can't change your competition and the economy, but you can try to change the union contracts that have you sending more money out the door than you are bringing in with sales of your products.

That article is in denial of the fact that Hostess was simply losing too much money and needed to right size it's cost structure or die. In the end the unions were presented with 2 simple options: go back to work and make products that could be sold to bring in cash to keep the company running or stay on strike so the company has nothing to sell to pay the bills. They chose the later....
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“The more I read and the more I listen, the more apparent it is that our society suffers from an alarming degree of public ignorance” - Retired Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O’Connor

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#3043441 - 11/21/12 09:56 AM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: Vermin93]
ncslickslayer
4 Point


Registered: 09/08/02
Posts: 182
Loc: raleigh,nc

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Vermin93,

Nicely stated, intelligent response. Thanks.

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#3043463 - 11/21/12 10:15 AM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: Vermin93]
BlountArrow
8 Point


Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 2490
Loc: SouthEast Tenn

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 Originally Posted By: Vermin93
...You can't change your competition and the economy, but you can try to change the union contracts that have you sending more money out the door than you are bringing in with sales of your products.

That article is in denial of the fact that Hostess was simply losing too much money and needed to right size it's cost structure or die...


So, let me ask because I don't know. Was the senior management/executive staff/supervision/etc willing to take cut backs themselves or did they just want to cut back the pay/incentives/benefits of the "union man"? Sometimes there really can be two sides to the story which is why I ask and you seem to be pretty knowledgeable about the whole ordeal.
Thanks.
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"The world is so dreadfully managed, one hardly knows to whom to complain."
-Ronald Firbank

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#3043496 - 11/21/12 10:42 AM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: ncslickslayer]
Wildcat
Non-Typical


Registered: 06/10/00
Posts: 41919
Loc: Western Ky.

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 Originally Posted By: ncslickslayer
As I said, its obviously slanted. I'm not talking Romney, Bain, or any of that. Im simply asking do you think the Union is solely to blame ? Do you not believe either

Hostess’s failure was compounded by having six CEO’s in 8 years who had no experience in the bread or cake baking industry, and despite their financial woes, the company’s CEO got a 300% salary increase from $750,000 to $2,250,000, and other top executives received raises worth hundreds-of-thousands of dollars

or

Hostess workers previously made numerous concessions to keep the company afloat, but they were not enough for the company’s management so they stopped making contractually-obligated contributions to employee’s pensions to save money. The employees stayed on the job until management offered a new contract cutting wages and benefits an extra 27 – 32 percent that prompted employees to strike and thus become scapegoats for Hostess’s demise.

I guess my only point is it's not just as simple as "The Union caused it!!!!!!!"

Just my opinion, everyone has their own.





LOL!!!!

Do you beleive ANYTHING in that article?? With that much slant you know as well as all the rest of us that nothing in that article is true.

Yes is IS as simple as the UNION CAUSED IT.

Ever the TEAMSTERS UNION blames the other union for causing it. You must be so unioon blind that you can't ever see when another union blames another union.
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#3043517 - 11/21/12 10:51 AM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: Wildcat]
ncslickslayer
4 Point


Registered: 09/08/02
Posts: 182
Loc: raleigh,nc

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Because the article is OBVIOUSLY slanted which I have now said three times, it means none of its contents are accurate ? I'm not Union blind. Never been a part of one, know very little about them. I also know blanket statements got that term for a reason.
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#3043533 - 11/21/12 10:59 AM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: Wildcat]
BlountArrow
8 Point


Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 2490
Loc: SouthEast Tenn

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If this is true (and I'm sure it isn't 100% true):

 Originally Posted By: ncslickslayer
...Hostess’s failure was compounded by having six CEO’s in 8 years who had no experience in the bread or cake baking industry, and despite their financial woes, the company’s CEO got a 300% salary increase from $750,000 to $2,250,000, and other top executives received raises worth hundreds-of-thousands of dollars...Hostess workers previously made numerous concessions to keep the company afloat, but they were not enough for the company’s management so they stopped making contractually-obligated contributions to employee’s pensions to save money. The employees stayed on the job until management offered a new contract cutting wages and benefits an extra 27 – 32 percent that prompted employees to strike and thus become scapegoats for Hostess’s demise....


then you absolutely cannot put sole blame on a Union. With all due respect, even the most anti-union people out there have to at least factor that in. I don't hate the rich, don't hate successful people, don't think they are one ounce better/worse than me but when a company is struggling EVERYONE should feel the heart burn not just those that happen to be lower on the todem pole. That's just my opinion when it comes to any company.
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"The world is so dreadfully managed, one hardly knows to whom to complain."
-Ronald Firbank

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#3043541 - 11/21/12 11:05 AM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: ncslickslayer]
Wildcat
Non-Typical


Registered: 06/10/00
Posts: 41919
Loc: Western Ky.

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 Originally Posted By: ncslickslayer
Because the article is OBVIOUSLY slanted which I have now said three times, it means none of its contents are accurate ? I'm not Union blind. Never been a part of one, know very little about them. I also know blanket statements got that term for a reason.


We all know you've said it three times yet you still believe any of it.

Left or right it doesn't mater but when any article is that slated it's there for a reason, to make their followers fall in line to what ever they say.

If I posted an article that was as far right slated as the one you posted would you really believe any of it?? Of course not. That is the very reason I do my OWN RESEARCH and do not depend on far right sources. I might read somethiong in a far right web site but I will then look it up myself.

Here another example of what I'm talking about. It was not too long ago that someone else on another hunting web site I'm on posted from that SAME WEB SITE your article is from about how George Bush and Dick Cheney ploted and set up the 9/11 attacks in detal. Oh the far left supporters ate it all up with gee and passed it on as Gods truth.
_________________________
Obama, “the very danger the Constitution was designed to avoid." Liberal law professor Jonathan Turley.




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#3043550 - 11/21/12 11:11 AM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: BlountArrow]
BMan
16 Point


Registered: 02/06/06
Posts: 10391
Loc: Middle TN

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 Originally Posted By: BlountArrow
 Originally Posted By: Vermin93
...You can't change your competition and the economy, but you can try to change the union contracts that have you sending more money out the door than you are bringing in with sales of your products.

That article is in denial of the fact that Hostess was simply losing too much money and needed to right size it's cost structure or die...


So, let me ask because I don't know. Was the senior management/executive staff/supervision/etc willing to take cut backs themselves or did they just want to cut back the pay/incentives/benefits of the "union man"? Sometimes there really can be two sides to the story which is why I ask and you seem to be pretty knowledgeable about the whole ordeal.
Thanks.

At the beginning of this year, senior management agreed to a salary of $1 each per year, until the company was profitable again.

For those jumping on the "CEO got a $1.5M pay raise, that's why the company died!" bandwagon, note that the total payroll with benefits included is well over $1BILLION. The CEO's raise was roughly $81 per employee, which would have made virtually no difference.

The article bemoans Hostess closing plants that were unprofitable or no longer needed. That's called BUSINESS and MANAGEMENT, and is how companies become long-term concerns. The author obviously has neither experience, nor knowledge, of how to run a business.
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